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Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




Ghost Leviathan posted:

The real-life analogy you're looking for is a prison hulk, which if you count scuttling, totally do.

through hull fittings on a ship arent a self destruct mechanism any more than gasoline in a car is

i can scuttle my boat by running aground and flooding the bilge too

hell, people do it by accident daily.

E: i guess i do not count scuttling.

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McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005







SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

It's always bothered me a little that the "holograms" in Star Trek are not actually holograms.

First Contact seems to show a little self awareness about this when Picard shoots a bunch of Borgs with a holographic gun and Alfre Woodard asks "I thought you said it's all a bunch of holograms, if it's a holograms..."

And Picard explains he turned off the holodeck safeties, seemingly oblivious to how this doesn't answer her question AT ALL.

To be completely pedantic about it, the holograms in the holodeck are light projections paired with forcefields that simulate the physical properties of the object being reproduced. It's more that it's not only a hologram instead of not actually a hologram, but getting caught up on that word as a colloquialism is like insisting people don't refer to motion pictures as "films" if they were captured on videotape or digital formats.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005




IIRC the holodeck also uses replicators to do things like food and other minor objects that need to be interacted with. Although really by that point it seems like it would be simpler to do a Matrix than go through the effort of trying to do all that stuff in the "real" world.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




muscles like this! posted:

IIRC the holodeck also uses replicators to do things like food and other minor objects that need to be interacted with. Although really by that point it seems like it would be simpler to do a Matrix than go through the effort of trying to do all that stuff in the "real" world.

moriarty micro aggression

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




muscles like this! posted:

IIRC the holodeck also uses replicators to do things like food and other minor objects that need to be interacted with. Although really by that point it seems like it would be simpler to do a Matrix than go through the effort of trying to do all that stuff in the "real" world.

Not really, though? It's all using technology that's already well established. Well, a virtual reality would probably be more energy efficient, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue in Star Trek.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




jellico would have made people use the matrix to save on the electric bill

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Statutory Ape posted:

jellico would have made people use the matrix to save on the electric bill

Barclay: Whoa

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

galagazombie posted:

I know there was at least one time they solved a disease by simply not transporting it along with the person.

Everytime a person is transported they leave behind a fine mist of toxins, germs, parasites, fungi and cancer cells so it's generally considered rude to transport from indoors or in the vicinity of small children.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




Owling Howl posted:

Everytime a person is transported they leave behind a fine mist of toxins, germs, parasites, fungi and cancer cells so it's generally considered rude to transport from indoors or in the vicinity of small children.

it's ok to admit that transporters make you fart it happens to all of us lol

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005







Error 404 posted:

Barclay: Whoa

I know wor-fu

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

McSpanky posted:

I know wor-fu

your poor spine!

SidneyIsTheKiller
Jul 16, 2019

She's delusional,
"where's god", etc.
Completely suicidal.
One day she snaps.
She wants to kill herself
but she realizes that
teen suicide is out this year
and homicide is a much healthier therapeutic expression.


Tulip posted:

Blasters seem to only be dangerous to people wearing storm trooper armor, which is nuts. Leia gets shot in 6 and it's like, not even quite as bad as a rubber bullet, let alone a regular bullet.

I know armies tend to build weapons that are really designed to counter their own armor, but it's pretty nuts to have a weapon that's not even effective against unarmored people.

e: To be clear, I'm tossing in star wars blasters as a contender for shittiest piece of garbage tech

Fun fact: this is how Han Solo was originally going to die. He jumps in front of her and takes the bullet (er, blaster shot) instead.

Funny enough, this actually changes very little of the actual script. Everything still plays out the same, (including their "I love you"/ "I know" reprise), it's just Han is the one that's wounded (mortally in this case).

If you happen to get the ending where Lando ALSO dies, Han expires immediately after realizing the Millennium Falcon didn't make it out of the Death Star in time - I'm not sure how he knows it, I guess he has the force? Han and Lando show up as ghosts along with the rest of the spectral gang in this ending (I feel like I'm talking about a videogame).

To be on topic, the blaster shot that we've seen instantly kill armored stormtroopers over and over again doesn't finish Han off until the Death Star explodes despite the fact he took a direct blow to the chest!

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



It seems like that was something everyone except George Lucas was pushing for, but I don't know if it ever actually made it in to a script - at least the 1981 rough draft that's floating around online has him alive the whole way through, but published notes about the other early drafts have the Falcon being destroyed during the Death Star escape in one of them.

Musluk
May 23, 2011




Speaking of blasters...



Is this a piece of poo poo or is it rebel propaganda?

SavageGentleman
Feb 28, 2010

I've got to run, I'll be seeing you!

- from about 6,000 feet!


Fallen Rib

Musluk posted:

Speaking of blasters...


Is this a piece of poo poo or is it rebel propaganda?

If you want to build all these super weapons in secret, you gotta save on other projects.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005







SavageGentleman posted:

If you want to build all these super weapons in secret, you gotta save on other projects.

I love the fan idea that's been developing that Palpatine cheaped out on all the contracts for new Imperial equipment to replace all the Grand Republic stuff when he finally became Emperor.

The best version of this is that the original Vader sketch is what the cyberneticists first handed him when he told them to fix Anakin, Palps took one look at it and went "oh poo poo, this dude'll gently caress me right up if when he rebels", and promptly told them to hit the discount parts bin.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




TIE fighters are cheap as poo poo on purpose mind.

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




sheev is basically running space north korea it sounds like

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005




McSpanky posted:

I love the fan idea that's been developing that Palpatine cheaped out on all the contracts for new Imperial equipment to replace all the Grand Republic stuff when he finally became Emperor.

The best version of this is that the original Vader sketch is what the cyberneticists first handed him when he told them to fix Anakin, Palps took one look at it and went "oh poo poo, this dude'll gently caress me right up if when he rebels", and promptly told them to hit the discount parts bin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzc20Bm8Xo

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Statutory Ape posted:

sheev is basically running space north korea it sounds like

That would explain a lot about TRoS

But it's more the Empire's doctrine; the TIE fighters are basically primarily for defense and task forces most of the time, the Star Destroyers are the stars of the show. The Empire in general relies on heavy warships for intimidation as much as practicality, with the Death Star being the local apex of this idea- they might not respond quickly, but they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks once they do.

The Rebellion of course lacks the Empire's resources and uniformity, with their fleets being a ragtag mix of antiquated fighters, repurposed luxury liners, and whatever materiel they can beg, borrow or steal. The X-Wing is one design they do have because it was originally made for the Empire then the entire design team defected. (Of course, who knows if the Empire would actually consider it worth building given the abovementioned doctrine)

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017




yea i saw the xwing intro too

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Ghost Leviathan posted:

But it's more the Empire's doctrine; the TIE fighters are basically primarily for defense and task forces most of the time, the Star Destroyers are the stars of the show. The Empire in general relies on heavy warships for intimidation as much as practicality, with the Death Star being the local apex of this idea- they might not respond quickly, but they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks once they do.

The Rebellion of course lacks the Empire's resources and uniformity, with their fleets being a ragtag mix of antiquated fighters, repurposed luxury liners, and whatever materiel they can beg, borrow or steal. The X-Wing is one design they do have because it was originally made for the Empire then the entire design team defected. (Of course, who knows if the Empire would actually consider it worth building given the abovementioned doctrine)

It makes sense ideologically too. In the Empire, individual people don't matter, and shouldn't feel empowered. No single person can turn the Death Star against Palpatine, and no single person is allowed to be a threat to him.

In the Rebellion, every individual counts. It only takes one lucky shot to destroy the Death Star, and it only takes one person to throw Sheev into a pit.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




It's also valuable for genre objectives: the whole theory of space war in Star Wars is WW2 Pacific Front, and part of American self-perception with WW2 and the Pacific Front especially was a notion that American choices about military equipment and engineering was not just technically superior but morally superior as well. As the IJN got more desperate and found itself resorting to subpar equipment and suicide attacks, Americans came to treat this as a moral failing of the Japanese people.

While the political parallels of Imperial Japan vs United States of America are basically not applicable, the film memory of Zeroes getting dunked on by Hellcats was maintained in the scifi.

(also fun to point out that for ep4, when the special effects weren't done, dogfighting stock footage was used both for inspiration and as placeholder)

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



I don't really know anything about the german air force in WW2, although I do know that the Death Star trench was taken from a movie about assaulting a Nazi dam. The empire sure doesn't have space U-Boats. German tanks were notorious for being overengineered things that kept breaking down for dumb reasons, which you could kinda interpret the AT-ATs as.

The Empire's military philosophy does seem to be "what if imperial japan had a much much bigger budget but instead of building better fighters, just made a thousand Yamatos and a few extra big Yamatos".

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005







SlothfulCobra posted:

I don't really know anything about the german air force in WW2, although I do know that the Death Star trench was taken from a movie about assaulting a Nazi dam. The empire sure doesn't have space U-Boats. German tanks were notorious for being overengineered things that kept breaking down for dumb reasons, which you could kinda interpret the AT-ATs as.

The Empire's military philosophy does seem to be "what if imperial japan had a much much bigger budget but instead of building better fighters, just made a thousand Yamatos and a few extra big Yamatos".

The Executor definitely has a "the Yamato's Yamato" feeling to it, it's stupidly huge to the point that it must take half an hour for the thing to pull a U-turn and yet a single fighter took out the bridge by accident and caused it to swan dive into the nearest moon-sized space station. And then the First Order decided to double down but went with the Nazi Amerikabomber instead

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

McSpanky posted:

The Executor definitely has a "the Yamato's Yamato" feeling to it, it's stupidly huge to the point that it must take half an hour for the thing to pull a U-turn and yet a single fighter took out the bridge by accident and caused it to swan dive into the nearest moon-sized space station. And then the First Order decided to double down but went with the Nazi Amerikabomber instead

It's an odd logic in a universe where you can use hyperdrives to turn small ships into de facto WMDs.

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

I do not wish to create joinder with your stank ass



Slippery Tilde

I'm the Mass Effect Citadel, the product of an incredibly old and technologically advanced race

They knew how to build Mass Relays, but faster-than-walking-pace elevators eluded them

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


McSpanky posted:

The Executor definitely has a "the Yamato's Yamato" feeling to it, it's stupidly huge to the point that it must take half an hour for the thing to pull a U-turn and yet a single fighter took out the bridge by accident and caused it to swan dive into the nearest moon-sized space station. And then the First Order decided to double down but went with the Nazi Amerikabomber instead

i'm pretty sure the fighter was only able to crash into the bridge because the Rebel fleet had already been concentrating all their fire on that super star destroyer

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 37 days!


Apparently the A-Wing was originally going to have been canonically designed as a literal kamikaze fighter.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




Admiralty Flag posted:

I'm the Mass Effect Citadel, the product of an incredibly old and technologically advanced race

They knew how to build Mass Relays, but faster-than-walking-pace elevators eluded them

I think they knew how, they just liked slow elevators.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



The vaults citadel was never designed to save anyone.

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

I do not wish to create joinder with your stank ass



Slippery Tilde

Some Goon posted:

The vaults citadel was never designed to save anyone.

That's the answer! The elevators are so slow because (12 year old ME spoilers I guess) the Reapers hoped people would be trapped in them when they returned!

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Admiralty Flag posted:

I'm the Mass Effect Citadel, the product of an incredibly old and technologically advanced race

They knew how to build Mass Relays, but faster-than-walking-pace elevators eluded them

How fast do you walk straight up 5 stories?

Not faster than it takes your squadmates to have a little conversation and the next area to load I bet.

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




SlothfulCobra posted:

How fast do you walk straight up 5 stories?

Not faster than it takes your squadmates to have a little conversation and the next area to load I bet.

Admiralty Flag has the thighs of a Dwarf Fortress dwarf: can climb a full flight of stairs in the same length of time they can walk 10 feet.

yeah ok ok yeah
May 2, 2016



those flying cars in Fifth Element that ding your license points if the AI detects you've been in a fender bender. that poo poo sucks!

Musluk
May 23, 2011




Some Goon posted:

The vaults citadel was never designed to save anyone.

Maybe these assholes?



Owling Howl posted:

It's an odd logic in a universe where you can use hyperdrives to turn small ships into de facto WMDs.

Was that used in anywhere but the new trilogy before? I was warned not to touch the Expanded Universe.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Schadenboner posted:

Apparently the A-Wing was originally going to have been canonically designed as a literal kamikaze fighter.

Would not be surprised. Probably just as well they instead went with it being a racing ship with some added guns.

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

No one cares.

Musluk posted:

Was that used in anywhere but the new trilogy before? I was warned not to touch the Expanded Universe.

Don't think so. It simultaneously makes giant space guns both pointless and impossible to defend. Well moreso.

Musluk
May 23, 2011




Owling Howl posted:

Don't think so. It simultaneously makes giant space guns both pointless and impossible to defend. Well moreso.

Yep. I mean, there's so much I can be wooed by SPACE EXPLOSIONS.

From Project Rho:

"If you want to write science fiction stories about starship combat, you jolly well better have a set of limitations on your FTL drive that allows starship combat. Or your readers are going to point at you and laugh, and not buy any more of your books."


I like where FTL is limited to specific points in system a la gateways and jump nodes. Bonus points when it's almost at the edge of a sun's corona like the mote.

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Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Musluk posted:

Was that used in anywhere but the new trilogy before? I was warned not to touch the Expanded Universe.

Yeah, but not on purpose. A few reference books mention a battle during the Clone Wars where a Republic ship's hyperdrive was damaged forced a jump to hyperspace, colliding with a Separatist planet and rendering it uninhabitable.

There was also weapons like the Galaxy Gun, which used hyperdrives to shoot missiles across the galaxy, but the missiles didn't hit anything while in hyperspace.

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