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O to be a fly on the wall, but alas, my voyeurism does know bounds.
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Jun 19, 2020 13:12
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Oh guys I envy you so much. drat it is enjoyable reading your takes on B5. No other show's first watch commentary can be so enjoyable. It's a whole other levels of 'enjoyable'! Please keep on doing this
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Jun 19, 2020 22:33
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VideoGames posted:
I think you've got that right. When this first aired the audience went into it with the absolute, rock-solid conviction (heh) that there was no way the child doesn't survive. The reaction on Usenet at the time was spectacular. I just went through this list of 90s shows (https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/the-90-best-tv-shows-of-the-1990s/) and maybe one or two of the animated comedies would have played it for laughs somehow (Futurama, the Tick). Oz and The Sopranos were gritty enough that they could have done it, but I don't see how they bring up these themes in the first place. I think it's safe to say the kid survives on any other show in 1994, if not the whole decade, but B5.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:03
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the "poo poo I would normally say out loud" is basically what I'm just putting in my notes now that I've got a better way to take them. I edit out some of my mid-episode speculation that gets resolved but otherwise 
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Jun 19, 2020 23:17
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S2ep5 - The Long Dark “The future isn’t what it used to be.” Barclay’s not looking too good, although this is about 100 years before the Enterprise-D launches. Oh hey, they found a Marie Celeste (see my last review)!  Or rather, it came to them. And with a murderous ghost on board! Another of Chief ACAB’s fash goons is in favour of spacing all the poor people. You’re recruiting some not great people, Garibaldi. Even Franklin gives it a little this episode “he’s just a lurker”. Franklin, please stop stroking your patients. He did it before in another episode, and it skeeved me out a little there, too. I get it’s meant to look reassuring, but it just comes across as creepy. Oh, and he just went full creep there with the kiss. Dude, her husband just died and she’s your patient! The weird little camera zoom in on Mariah as she found out about her husband was very soap opera. G’kar’s interest in the ‘ghost’ is a good character beat for him, now finding purpose in the coming darkness, and the role it played in the destruction of the Narn colony. Conversely, Londo’s dismissal of it all looks all the more suspicious every time he pulls that card. I really liked the notion that Mariah had been altered somehow, or taken over by something, but they didn’t seem to dwell on it. Just that somehow the creature now had a connection to both her and Amis, without really saying what it was. That said, Amis’s war story is remarkably compelling, having read similar battlefield ghost stories, and tales of encountering some cryptid. There’s strange cuts between Garibaldi taking Mariah and Franklin to find Amis, and then next we’re in C&C and there’s reports of heavy fire, and now everyone found it and it’s dead. I feel like several scenes were missing and roughly joined together. When they find Amis and he’s oddly floating in the air, he’s covered in weird webbing material, very Alien, and then Garibaldi pulls it off him. It also feels like something was cut to do with that? Also, how did this thing board a ship travelling through space? Did it just jump from the moon then open the door? The episode itself was mostly good (aside from a few missteps like Franklin’s bedside manner and the ease with which the creature was dispatched -“We can’t kill it!” “Just shoot harder!”) but the implications it helps set up for the bigger picture are some excellent scene-setting. Ivanova’s in the right here with her statement of being very scared. Something big and ancient has woken up. EDIT: stuff I didn’t mention. There is a nicely spooky atmosphere in this episode, and I really like it. The ep touches on horror a little, invoking the terrifying unknowns of things out there, and how much our characters still don’t know about their own universe. The silhouette we saw of the creature was like, 10 feet high and had horns. It reframes the POV shots when they first enter the Copernicus. You’re assuming something ghostly is flying around the room, and now it’s bobbing around the ceiling looking down at Sheridan and co. But no, it actually just stood up, which is way more terrifying a notion. 
The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 01:50
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The_Doctor posted:S2ep04 - A Distant Star My favorite thing about that B-plot is When Garibaldi starts despairing over his Do Not Eat list, comes to the conclusion "There's nothing left," but Franklin anticipated his objection and prepared a Eat These Things list! "See! All kinds of things!" And that list just makes Garibaldi even more upset. Also the gag where they all swap plates and then swap them back when Franklin mom-shame-stares them
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Jun 20, 2020 03:18
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There's always been arguments in geek circles that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was ripping off Babylon 5. For some reason, none of them ever hinge on the particularly damning evidence that both Dr. Franklin and Dr. Bashir have the same terrible medical ethics.
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Jun 20, 2020 05:31
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Sanguinia posted:My favorite thing about that B-plot is When Garibaldi starts despairing over his Do Not Eat list, comes to the conclusion "There's nothing left," but Franklin anticipated his objection and prepared a Eat These Things list! "See! All kinds of things!" And that list just makes Garibaldi even more upset. That's some real 90's humor right there, but drat if it still isn't funny
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Jun 20, 2020 06:48
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Believers: I'm not bothered that the kid died. I am bothered that the kid was murdered by his parents and it was apparently perfectly OK because it was part of their religion. What else can people on Babylon 5 get up to because their religion says it's allowed? (At least I don't think they faced any repercussions, did they? It's been a while.)
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Jun 20, 2020 12:25
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Why do you think it was ok?
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Jun 20, 2020 12:33
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The_Doctor posted:And we’re back! The designer of that ship freely admits he stole the rotating section from the Leonov. I won't link to any site which says that cos you're going to get huge spoilers.
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Jun 20, 2020 12:34
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sebmojo posted:Why do you think it was ok? I don't remember any consequences, but as I said it's been a while. Were there?
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Jun 20, 2020 12:58
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That's a different question.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:20
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I am using 'OK' in the sense of 'they are allowed to do that with no negative consequences from any authority'.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:22
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I think the implication was that, because what they did was legal under their own laws, and no foreigners were affected, the station authorities weren't going to get involved. Since they were leaving the station anyway, and B5 isn't set up to handle long-term incarceration, there wasn't much point in trying to go after them.
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Jun 20, 2020 13:49
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Angry Salami posted:I think the implication was that, because what they did was legal under their own laws, and no foreigners were affected, the station authorities weren't going to get involved. Since they were leaving the station anyway, and B5 isn't set up to handle long-term incarceration, there wasn't much point in trying to go after them. Yeah, I think that was what they were going for and I certainly don't think we're supposed to believe anyone there approved of their actions, but the implication here is that people on Bab 5 are allowed to murder, rape, torture or enslave anyone (of their own species) as long as they've got a religion that says it's OK. I'm going to be 'that guy' and suggest that actually that's a bit poo poo. edit: I guess they could get kicked off the station? That's still a little bit poo poo. Unkempt fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 20, 2020 |
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Jun 20, 2020 14:23
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Unkempt posted:
Can this discussion get moved into the other B5 thread?
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Jun 20, 2020 14:43
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Unkempt posted:the implication here is that people on Bab 5 are allowed to murder, rape, torture or enslave anyone (of their own species) as long as they've got a religion that says it's OK. More than safe to read for anyone up through where The Doctor is (s2e5): It's clear that this is not the case, because when the Drazi started murdering each other in s2e3 it was clearly Not On.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:27
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MrL_JaKiri posted:More than safe to read for anyone up through where The Doctor is (s2e5): Station regulations state this is Simply Not Cricket, Chaps.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:31
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In the case of S2E3, this is an outbreak of violence between groups all over the station, rather than a case of one family dealing with a religious/medical issue without it affecting others. At least, not in the same way.
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Jun 20, 2020 16:55
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Discussing Believers:Unkempt posted:
From back in Born to the Purple: Adira Tyree is a slave. Londo's shocked that she's a slave, but not that slavery exists, and his way to deal with it is to buy her freedom rather than bring the issue to any authorities.
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Jun 20, 2020 18:06
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The premise of believers is very much that Sinclair's authority on b5 is limited, and its a neutral space. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.
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Jun 21, 2020 00:12
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Unkempt posted:
I mean, they could turn them over to the relevant authority. That's their own people. Who say that what they did was not only okay, but expected.
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Jun 21, 2020 04:25
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S2E5 - The Long Dark Hahaha that 3d effect of the guy in the window Whoa an ancient ship drifting in that's a decent hook Cryogenics! Man medical technology doesn't seem all that great considering the relative technology levels What is the deal with these chairs? The ones you can sit in backwards and it looks like a pogo stick's handles. Garibaldi looks like he's sitting down on a a big boy tricycle. Another one of these close-ups of a guest actor getting REALLY in to their scene. Always a pleasure. Also, logs can be altered, and also maybe the log that said "he should be alive, there's no problem with the machine" on a century old machine could simply be wrong. Dr. Franklin this is hosed up and I hate you. She's a patient, she's 100 years out of date, and she literally just passed out. gently caress you, Dr. Franklin. You just told her her husband was murdered, Dr. Franklin. Subtitle disagreement. This show has a lot of these on Prime, but some of them are really poor. Garibaldi: They put enough ribbons on his chest to open up a gift shop. Subtitle Garibaldi: He's highly decorated. Dr. Franklin you need to separate yourself from this lady post haste for everyone's sake. An energy stealing ball lightning thing.. pretty boring storyline start to finish. I liked the guest actor all right. I liked that the ball lightning turned in to a literal demon though. Thank God Mariah left, I would not have been comfortable with that being ongoing. I guess the shadows have other allies? Might there be an entire axis of space evil out at the rim?
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Jun 21, 2020 04:40
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I think the DVDs had subtitle/dialogue disagreements, too. Maybe they drew subtitles from the scripts-as-written versus as shot or something?
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Jun 21, 2020 08:22
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My assumption is there's some maximum words per screen and/or words per second limit they're operating under, intended so that people can read and keep up with the subtitles without struggling. If you get too long or complex a sentence, it's simplified so that it's quicker to read while maintaining the same overall meaning. And with the maximum set at 'general populace' reading speed, rather than 'anime fan, subs purist', you'd have to cut down a lot of Babylon 5's lines.
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Jun 21, 2020 08:43
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Watching on Plex, it grabs subtitles seemingly from the ether, but they’re pretty good, and I definitely didn’t have that level of discrepancy.
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Jun 21, 2020 09:49
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I think the DVDs had subtitle/dialogue disagreements, too. Maybe they drew subtitles from the scripts-as-written versus as shot or something? The script as shot was basically always the script as written according to JMS (and probably the script books if anyone owns them).
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Jun 21, 2020 11:41
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I think the DVDs had subtitle/dialogue disagreements, too. Maybe they drew subtitles from the scripts-as-written versus as shot or something? For the latest example (upthread in TheAardvark’s spoilers), the script book agrees with the spoken line, not the subtitles. Either the subtitler was taking liberties in the name of brevity, or it’s an example of WB’s active disinterest in the show.
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Jun 21, 2020 13:59
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I'll post some of the other ones I see. There are multiple per episode. The subtitles show some pretty dense scenes and longer lines of dialogue verbatim, but the one I posted might have just been particularly bad. I watch everything with subtitles, though, and I've never seen such full on replacement dialogue before, regardless of the era of the show.
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Jun 21, 2020 14:07
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The subtitles on Prime suck because of Prime. So here's the deal, you know how sometimes when you look up something on Prime there's more than on version of it? Sometimes that's just because two different distributors put the movie out at some point. You'll see that often for like 70s grindhouse movies or whatever, like how you can look up Death Machines and see five different versions of it from different folks of varying video quality). The thing is that on top of that, the search/etc. for Prime Instant Video and just Amazon Prime in general overlap with each other. As in it's two totally separate databases that you're looking up something on at the same time, of which it's not supposed to show duplicates but sometimes some oddness happens. IIRC they don't actually update the subtitles when stuff comes out again and just use whatever from older versions so you're seeing is probably some rushed subtitle job from some random station in the 90s (as someone said, a different time meant to be understood quickly by someone casually flipping channels) or like Prime subtitles that were done like over a decade ago for some point when it was briefly available. On top of that Prime's actual subtitle quality has always been kind of off for anything not distributed by Amazon itself or not a $$$ production. I believe Plex pulls from OpenSubtitles.org which generally has significantly more accurate tracks to choose from.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:16
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Neo Rasa posted:I believe Plex pulls from OpenSubtitles.org which generally has significantly more accurate tracks to choose from. Can confirm, a little thing with OpenSubtitles appears at the start of each episode on plex.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:19
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Yeah let's be clear here I don't think it's anything wrong with the show, it's certainly because of Prime. It's just a bit annoying, as someone with significant hearing loss, when subtitles don't match.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:24
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TheAardvark posted:Yeah let's be clear here I don't think it's anything wrong with the show, it's certainly because of Prime. It's just a bit annoying, as someone with significant hearing loss, when subtitles don't match. It really is, my wife has some difficulty with this too and since we watch a lot of odd 70s movies that went through the ringer of many dubs/subs/cuts/releases we'll often  something to watch on Plex or VLC (it can also pull from OpenSubtitles) solely to have the holy grail intersection of "the movie is uncut" and "the English subtitles are accurate." It feels like such a weird issue to even exist today. I wish there was some mechanism by which you could take a subtitle file and and tell Prime/Netflix/etc. to use that for ___ show or something.
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Jun 21, 2020 15:35
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I'm put in mind of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGXZiX0pCA
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Jun 21, 2020 15:45
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I have watched 3 episodes! So 3 separate little write-ups! 1-11 Survivors This episode was a pretty nice delve into the character of Garibaldi. (Though the one directly after sort of ruined part of this for me and more on that in that episode). I always wondered what caused him to be at Babylon 5. Like almost every character we have seen (I am missing Vir) they seem to have a ton of layers that the show is letting us see very deliberately and slowly. I dig this so much. I did not realize how much I would enjoy a slow burn show until I began this. It feels more like a novel with it teasing things now and then but the promise of payoff is there. I trust that the show is going to reveal things that I want answers to, and I also believe that it will be worth it. Garibaldi's past makes sense. His struggle with alcoholism has a nice backstory but I wish the threat of returning to the bottle had been more pronounced with the actual moment it happen given more gravitas. Maybe because I lost a family member to alcohol and have a slightly clouded view, but being sober for all those years and it go then him realizing the errors seemed a bit fast but the goodwill I have is overflowing, and I still felt sad that he did regress. Lianna was very over eager to take control of the station and both Lady VG and I were scoffing at her a little. We also had bets as to who framed Garibaldi and luckily I was right. I thought it might be her second in command as a nice parallel to Garibaldi being Sinclair's second in command. (Is he? Or is it Ivanova? I must confess I might have elevated Garibaldi's importance due to Ivanaova not being in the original episode). Overall it was a nice little mystery episode and a nice bit of character fleshing out. --- 1-12 By Any Means Necessary Holy moly did this episode feel perfect for these troubled times. As soon as the dockworkers laid out their conditions I hoped among hopes that it would portray them as the good guys because none of what they wanted was unreasonable. Goodness I think their work conditions might be worse than a lot of places nowadays? They had all the leverage too. The way Oren Bento came at them was ridiculous. They asked for more pay, a bit more rest and working equipment. Goodness that is nothing! and the earth council could not even provide this? It makes me wonder about how earth is run, what the general nature of humanity outside of Babylon5 is like. If he was their top negotiator then what is going on? He did not even concede a thing. Just told them to take the same stuff they were protesting then hold up his hands and shout "Welp! Get the cops!" Odious dude! That we only see Humanity via the people traveling and our main characters causes Humans to be an alien race in their own way. We have no home world we can associate them with and as such no frame of reference for the current culture and how it is set up. These conditions, along with a perforce controlling things, make me wonder if Earth is a dystopia so far removed from the kind of enlightened earth we would usually see in a space faring tv program like this. The side plot with Londo and G'Kar was utterly wonderful. The pair of them truly are the shining stars of the program and every interaction between the two of them is perfection. I have to applaud the casting team because they struck gold. Lady VG and I were in stitches with how smug Londo was when G'Kar was pleading with Londo, especially after being so helpful with his unlocked quarters  I LOVE that Londo brought up Ragesh again too! I had not forgotten that and always felt awful for the Centauri for that whole ordeal. I actually wanted Londo to get a taste of revenge for it. Sinclair was a gem throughout the episode too. He got more and more haggard as it went on, and I am SO glad he gave the win to the dock workers. I could not love his character more. I was worried that as it was 94 it would be more like the climate where such things were not as big a deal in the public eye and the strike would just get squashed with some loss of life on the dock workers side. That they won made me beam Plus the way he settled G'Kare and Londo was both inspiring and sentimental. I have a very soft spot for him. I am not usually a fan of the main, main character for ensemble tv shows. It is usually all the side characters that give me the most enjoyment, but Sinclair is great!Not happy with Garibaldi though. I thought he would be on the dock workers side. What on earth was he doing going up against them? Anyone could see how bad the working condition were! It made the previous episode sympathies feel a little hollow. All in all, a really decent episode with a great resolution and a hilarious subplot! --- 1-13 Signs and Portents Oooooh. I get the feeling I just watched something VERY important. This episode had me hooked the whole time but before I go into it I just want to say I checked the date they said at the beginning 3rd of August 2258 is a Tuesday and not a Wednesday as they say Though I would LOVE if there was a reason it was a day off! Like perhaps, they thought someone would check and I have stumbled onto a clue or something!Anyway, I am always up for a Londo episode. Currently, my three favourite characters are 1. Londo 2. Sinclair 3. G'Kar It is not even a competition. Londo's dialect is so distinct and alien and full of such joy and sadness depending on the situation that he is showing up everyone else when he is on screen! I cannot get enough Londo. I have just this moment finished this episode and there is so much going on in my head about it. So these thoughts are going to be all over the place: The shadows prophecy coming true - what the heck was that black spiky thing? A ship made of shadow? Good lord that is scary. Something made of shadow would be able to hide perfectly in a region like space. The box containing the eye was scorched and damaged and yet Borden had it in his possession despite never leaving the station? So it must have come from the wrecked ship but that was a jump away somewhere! Not even the jump gate that the station uses but a bespoke one! Speaking of Borden, holy moly! Who is Borden? I love that question: What do you want? I love how it disarmed Londo and G'Kar, the two people likely to be thinking of themselves foremost but the two ambassadors that care about the bigger picture are not caught up in it. Speaking of Kosh! Good lord what happened between him and Borden? That little line after their small dialogue that Kosh needs to get a suit repair was so throwaway but of course we audience got it Goodness I am such a fan of the fact this show trusts us to be paying attention and rewards us for doing so!Borden was definitely avoiding Kosh which made me all the more intrigued. That show of babylon 5 completely blowing up! Holy moly! Is this something that happens at the end of everything? We know that she was correct about the Shadows killing Kiro and the episode is titled Signs and Portents. I would say Babylon 5 exploding is a pretty calamitous situation if ever I heard one! Londo talking about his race and the eye at the start was great but I really liked how even he knew that Kiro taking it for himself and trying a coup was a bad idea. Londo is very astute. I wonder if it was only Londo who got what he wanted. I wonder if he even did get what he wanted. He got to remain Ambassador. I think that the small amount of power he has there means more to him than he might realise. Good grief. That was great. I think it came at just the right time in the season too. Not that I was getting bored because I most certainly was not, but the restating of the fact that there is a definite story being told amongst all these moments in day to day life is welcome one to be sure
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Jun 21, 2020 23:18
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Neo Rasa posted:It really is, my wife has some difficulty with this too and since we watch a lot of odd 70s movies that went through the ringer of many dubs/subs/cuts/releases we'll often There is, at least for Netflix: ctrl+alt+shift+t
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Jun 22, 2020 00:01
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VideoGames posted:Good grief. That was great. I think it came at just the right time in the season too. Morden (like the place in London) for the character spelling btw. Loved reading the thoughts overall!
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Jun 22, 2020 00:07
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VideoGames posted:1-11 Survivors Ivanova is the second in command of the station; Garibaldi is the security chief.
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Jun 22, 2020 00:40
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Dr. Stab posted:There is, at least for Netflix: ctrl+alt+shift+t  I had no idea, this rules!
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Jun 22, 2020 00:43
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