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SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



I think I've heard that a whole lot about Londo was just Peter Jurasik's decisions. Like how apparently the original plan was that he'd have a much smaller crest.

VideoGames posted:

1-12 By Any Means Necessary

Holy moly did this episode feel perfect for these troubled times.


That's just how unionbusters are. They don't care about what's reasonable, they don't care that they can easily improve working conditions, they just know that they pushed the HR costs as far down as they could, and they're definitely not going to raise their costs if they can help it. And the cops don't care about the plight of the working class, they get paid to knock around unfortunate schlubs with no better options all day. It's great that Sinclair told the rear end in a top hat to gently caress off.

I guess that's less of a spoiler for a show than it is a spoiler for the real world. If you haven't reached the 2010s yet don't read this:
In lieu of innovation, a lot of newer businesses prefer to just figure out elaborate ways around labor laws. Recent attempts at strikes against hazardous work conditions met with reprisals against the organizers.

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Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002



I have to say, VideoGames, I am loving your enthusiasm.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Morden, not Borden.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002



SlothfulCobra posted:

I think I've heard that a whole lot about Londo was just Peter Jurasik's decisions. Like how apparently the original plan was that he'd have a much smaller crest.

I believe I've heard they tried to get him not to do the accent either, but every time they rolled film he kept doing it. Definitely the right choice on his part, it's iconic.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

I believe I've heard they tried to get him not to do the accent either, but every time they rolled film he kept doing it. Definitely the right choice on his part, it's iconic.

I assume because then they'd have to get other Centauri (SENTAUR-AYE) extras to try and mimic it. For the most part they haven't.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


I noticed Refa was doing something vaguely similar, but much watered down. And other Centauri actors just haven’t bothered. Eh, regional differences on a planet is no surprise! Lots of planets have a north, after all.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep6 - Spider in the Web

“$2 for a salami?!”

I love the false perspective effect in the conference room of the habitation cylinder space. Very Mass Effect.

THE SAN DIEGO WASTELANDS - so, no Comic-Con in 2259?

Lol, Amanda Carter’s grandfather, John. John Carter of Mars. :golfclap:

Sheridan’s tale of first contact with the Tikar makes me assume there’s some universal translator thing going on. Also his statement of collecting secrets and conspiracies touches on the bit in A Distant Star when he gets all interested about Maynard’s tales of mysterious sightings. The early 90s were a good time for the paranormal and govt coverups (hello Mulder), and B5 touching on that feels very relevant for the era. Plus it’s a nice expansion for Sheridan’s character, he wants to find the darkness at the heart of Earthgov and expose it all to the light. Admirable motivation. :hmmyes:

I feel like this case could have easily been wrapped up quicker by the occasional security camera around the place.

Talia’s costuming changed after the second attack, more buttoned up and defensive looking. Nice touch.

IS THAT KENICKIE?! Holy poo poo it is!

So Bureau 13 is creating soldiers/spies from the almost dead. The woman at the desk (also 13?) who was talking to Windows Media Player was the Psi-corp overseer from Abel’s operation, but is now marked as dead too. But is she just reported dead for convenience, or also a cyber-spy? Considering the series has already told us Psi-corp is virtually controlling Earthgov already, what do Bureau 13 do? Is it just a Psi-corp shell company to cover who’s actually pulling the strings? Like, if things go awry, they can just blame this little shadowy Bureau as a cabal within the government, and then clear them out, leaving Psi-corp in place to keep string-pulling. Aka plausible deniability. Or are they a mere side department dealing with the black projects like Sheridan said?

Also, I assume WMP is Control, like an AI running the show? Or was Control someone else we just never saw, and WMP was just passing messages and running point between agents? And who’s the mole on B5?! If it’s Kenickie, imma be mad. So many questions!

An average episode, but loaded with juicy bits of conspiracy throughout, setting up all kinds of delicious theorising. Honestly, my head is fizzing right now, this is brilliant! :toot:

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



He just straight-up says, "Mr. Molden", and I don't think there are many real human accents that turn a vowel R into a consonant L.

Delenn's exotic accent comes from the more traditional place of having moved to America just a year earlier and still having some trouble with the language.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Naw he's rolling his r's, rrr

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Those of you who are watching the series for the first time on Amazon are actually missing out on some information that people who were online during the show's original run or who bought the box sets would've had. This does give some hints as to which episodes are particularly significant, but I've made it hard to accidentally get the information if you don't want it.

One of the unusual things that Babylon 5 did was that they gave the seasons titles in addition to each of the individual episodes. Each of the seasons did share a title with one of its episodes, so that was a pretty big sign that that episode was particularly momentous. Since the titles were shared ahead of time online and printed on the box sets, I think it's reasonable to give them here as well. I've removed the spaces and translated them into al Bhed, but you can easily find a translator for that if you look.

Season 1: CEKHCYHTBUNDAHDC
Season 2: DRALUSEHKUVCRYTUFC
Season 3: BUEHDUVHUNADINH
Season 4: HUCINNAHTANHUNADNAYD
Season 5: FRAAMUVVENA

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

I believe I've heard they tried to get him not to do the accent either, but every time they rolled film he kept doing it. Definitely the right choice on his part, it's iconic.

Yeah, they specifically told him not to do an accent then he showed up with that accent ready to go and would not stop doing it, so they gave up. Peter Jurasik rules.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


I've heard it said that Vir is from the Centauri Midwest, like their version of Minnesota with that accent compared to the rest.

I like the idea that there are dialects and accents in alien species, because of course they wouldn't be completely homogenous. Also makes things easier from a production standpoint and not having to push Steven Furst too far out of his own creative range.

1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

The_Doctor posted:

I noticed Refa was doing something vaguely similar, but much watered down. And other Centauri actors just haven’t bothered. Eh, regional differences on a planet is no surprise! Lots of planets have a north, after all.

I think Jurasik said the accent was do with class, not region, like received pronunciation in the UK. That makes sense since Londo is an aristocrat.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Grand Fromage posted:

Yeah, they specifically told him not to do an accent then he showed up with that accent ready to go and would not stop doing it, so they gave up. Peter Jurasik rules.

He explained in an interview I listened to that he'd just previously been in a play set somewhere in the American south (A Streetcar Named Desire, maybe?) and had worked very hard on getting his accent exactly right and authentic, only for some critic to complain about it. When he got the chance to audition for an alien, he realized that no one could say his accent was wrong.

When they said, "Hey, uh, we weren't really thinking of Londo as an accent character, so ..." he replied: "VHAT AKSENT?!"



The thing about the crest was a pair of people not getting that the other person was joking: Jurasik looked at the original, full-length wig that had been produced (designed to be cut down to the right length) and thought "Man, it'd be hilarious if Joe thought I loved this stupid wig just as it is." JMS ... did think so, I guess because Jurasik's a good actor. So that's what he's wearing in The Gathering, which they had to then work into the character design and try to make it look less terrible once they got into the show proper.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep7 - Soul Mates

“The secret of our marriage’s success, Londo, is our lack of communication.”
“A bitch like you would know about breeding”

Goddamn stoners. I get that Talia’s very emotional as well as telepathic, but by her account this is her third instructor at Psi-school she fell in love with? The reveal that he’s still got powers is obvious from the first 30 seconds of the episode, but it’s presented like some big twist?

Interesting to note that people don’t leave Psi-corp, other than by dying. That’s a pretty hardcore enrolment. Their eugenics program is also pretty terrifying. There could be more Ironheart-type ascensions in the ranks very soon.

Oh man, Londo’s wives. :allears: Timov is my favourite. Holy poo poo, every line of hers is absolute acid-filled gold. The whole plotline was a delight, and I had a strong feeling Londo was going to choose her, particularly for her honesty.

Delenn’s hair adventure is a fun diversion on adjusting to her new found half-humanity. But it’s a shame it ends on a ‘lol menstruation’ joke.

Garibaldi has a picture of Daffy Duck in his quarters. Guess that’s the WB money? Wasn’t he watching Looney Tunes in an earlier episode too?

Londo giving G’kar a headache by being nice to him is wonderful comedy. That said, G’kar’s scene with Mariel, why? Is it just to have another voice to produce some ‘so you see’ exposition? Or is there meant to be implication that he helped her/Stoner find the artifact?

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


The_Doctor posted:

S2ep7 - Soul Mates



Delenn’s hair adventure is a fun diversion on adjusting to her new found half-humanity. But it’s a shame it ends on a ‘lol menstruation’ joke.



That is one of my favorite C-Stories in the whole show. Please, I trust you. :unsmith:

Electric_Mud
May 31, 2011

>10 THRUST "ROBO_COX"
>20 GOTO 10

This has been a fantastic thread to read over the past couple days and I'm looking forward to reading more. I've also realized that I haven't watched this show in over a decade when I introduced my wife to it, so thank you for making me go dig out my dvds to rewatch it.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E6 - Spider in the Web
Oh yeah Talia exists.

Hell yeah San Diego Wastelands. I like the occasional glimpses we get of places far from the station.

drat negotiating with a psychic intermediary there must be wild. I still think it's a tiny bit weird that this show has human psychics. I am hoping we find out more about their origins and it helps.

Sheridan talking about that alien race makes me regret the lack of budget on this show. It's not necessary for the story but it'd be cool to see more wild alien types.

Whoa force lightning out of nowhere!

Secret robo-hand!

I guess this is an all human episode, yawn. Also I guess this guy is a RoboCop programmed by psi-corps not to be able to attack psychics.

Nope still don't really care about either Garibaldi or Talia really.

Garibaldi showing off his tech skills again. I guess there isn't really a Tech Guy on the show, which is odd. Why would they let their charge in to that room alone without clearing it? How is Garibaldi so bad at his job?

Nailed the Psi-corps RoboCop theory. Though I guess we can't tell whether he could hurt Talia or not, but that wouldn't mesh with him downloading new orders to kill her. Psi-corps/Bureau 13 seems like the season plot but I guess we will see.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



robziel posted:

This has been a fantastic thread to read over the past couple days and I'm looking forward to reading more. I've also realized that I haven't watched this show in over a decade when I introduced my wife to it, so thank you for making me go dig out my dvds to rewatch it.

You know where the thread for previous watchers is, I hope.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




The_Doctor posted:

S2ep6 - Spider in the Web

“$2 for a salami?!”

IS THAT KENICKIE?! Holy poo poo it is!



I didn't even give him a second thought this episode, I forgot he was in the opening credits and thought he was another throwaway guest lol

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Regarding one of the guest stars:

quote:


Oh man, Londo’s wives. :allears: Timov is my favourite. Holy poo poo, every line of hers is absolute acid-filled gold. The whole plotline was a delight, and I had a strong feeling Londo was going to choose her, particularly for her honesty.



Did you see what they did with her name? Maybe look at it the other way...

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Zaroff posted:

Regarding one of the guest stars:



Did you see what they did with her name? Maybe look at it the other way...


Lol. :golfclap:

Electric_Mud
May 31, 2011

>10 THRUST "ROBO_COX"
>20 GOTO 10

Jedit posted:

You know where the thread for previous watchers is, I hope.

I found a thread in the TVIV https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3785889 or is there another one?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



robziel posted:

I found a thread in the TVIV https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3785889 or is there another one?

That's the bunny.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Hopefully we don’t all vanish in the night, but if that does happen, join the Sci-fi WiFi Discord. I’ll put my posts up on a blog and then link them there.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




The_Doctor posted:

Hopefully we don’t all vanish in the night, but if that does happen, join the Sci-fi WiFi Discord. I’ll put my posts up on a blog and then link them there.

:same:

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





There is a specific spoiler free channel for ya'all to either post your takes or links to your blogs or whatevers. The Babylon-5 channel will have spoilers in it.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Link?

Blindeye
Sep 22, 2006

I can't believe I kissed you!



Same. I don't know where to go.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Timov, one of the very best secondary characters on the show, was played by Jane Carr. A British actress, she made her career as a character actor in America and has been in hell of stuff, most recently DC's Legends of Tomorrow..

When B5 hits it on their guest stars, they really hit it. Carr/Timov is a series favorite, and she's still acting.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



mllaneza posted:

Timov, one of the very best secondary characters on the show, was played by Jane Carr. A British actress, she made her career as a character actor in America and has been in hell of stuff, most recently DC's Legends of Tomorrow..

When B5 hits it on their guest stars, they really hit it. Carr/Timov is a series favorite, and she's still acting.

On which note, I just found out that June Lockhart is still with us and likewise still working even into her mid-90s.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


mllaneza posted:

Timov, one of the very best secondary characters on the show, was played by Jane Carr. A British actress, she made her career as a character actor in America and has been in hell of stuff, most recently DC's Legends of Tomorrow..

When B5 hits it on their guest stars, they really hit it. Carr/Timov is a series favorite, and she's still acting.

She’s very familiar, but looking at her IMDb profile, I can’t say I’ve actually seen anything else she’s been in. Maybe we’ve just got so many of her type of actress here in the UK, she’s one out of many.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



The_Doctor posted:

She’s very familiar, but looking at her IMDb profile, I can’t say I’ve actually seen anything else she’s been in. Maybe we’ve just got so many of her type of actress here in the UK, she’s one out of many.

Carr was mostly a stage actress. Her biggest credit before B5 was a role in The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie back in 1968.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E7

lol @ vir

whoa an unregulated psychic?

talia randomly complimenting Sheridan was awkward

HAH HAH I forgot Talia hadn't had her "long lost love shows up" plot yet as required by Babylon 5 law

Cute Delenn hair sideplot.

drat the Psi-Corps forces breeding?

It's been too long since we've had G'Kar and Londo together.

Timov is great. Hahaha Londo's wish. Incredible.

drat Talia telling Garibaldi to gently caress off.

I want that wall sized painting of Londo.

Lot of good guests on this episode between Stoner and the wives. Timov is so good. Of course that one wife was banging G'Kar, too.

INCOMING PERIOD JOKE



CALLED IT

Fun episode, more Psi-corps stuff, but lots of good ridiculousness from the aliens.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Very mild s2e7 spoilers:
Production story told by Peter David, author and there as extra for Londo’s big celebration scene:
The director, John Flinn (who was B5s director of photography) had all those barefoot extras and was having trouble getting all the coverage for the scene. As midnight approached, it became clear that he couldn’t possibly get all the shots he needed in time, and it’d thus be his fault for extending the shoot into overtime territory. The Suits were on site to cut off filming, allowing only time for one master shot of Londo collapsing and Sheridan saying “Medlab, this is Sheridan!”

Bruce Boxleitner leans in, hits the comm link, and says “Medlab, this is Sinclair!”

Filming comes to a screeching halt, everyone bursts out laughing, with Boxleitner saying “What was I thinking?!” (This blooper is on the S2 blooper reel, but spoilers for other S2 episodes, so I won’t link it.)

The Suits laughed, and authorized the overtime. Flinn was able to finish all his shots.

And Peter David, who was there as an extra in the crowd, is convinced Boxleitner deliberately flubbed the line. Given that he’d not been on the show in S1 when Sinclair was still there, I’m inclined to believe it.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep08 - A Race Through Dark Places

“The Corps is mother, the Corps is father.”

Budgetary woes, but where are all those Earthforce military vessels going? Earthgov turn out to be terrible landlords, on top of being generally terrible. Push too much, and your own people will start to fight back. Neat solution though, although from Earth’s perspective, they gave in.

An earlier ep stated coffee was super rare and that Ivanova was growing a few rogue beans in one of the gardens. The scene with Franklin and Sheridan at the start drinking mugs of coffee from a cafetière (and a few more scenes in past episodes) feel like it’s either not as rare, or they’ve got some substitute that makes do. (Or the writers just forgot.)

Psi-corp are your father and your mother. Also horrible torture, and assorted other crimes against humanity, making them pretty lovely parents. Also hey, forced breeding programs to build better telepaths. That’s seriously hosed up. Talia stating ‘You’re asking me to take everything I believe and turn it upside down’, like she doesn’t have many, many of her own terrible experiences at the hands of the Corps (and those related to her by Ivanova). Why is this so hard for you to believe now? I’m glad the episode comes around on that at the end and Talia is willing to admit she was wrong. Also, just showing up late at night with wine is very romantic.

Talking of which, Delenn asking Sheridan out for dinner? Is this the start of another romance arc? :allears: On a meta level, the series was pushing Sinclair and Delenn together a little in S1, so I guess Sheridan is now filling that role too. She did look great in that dress, though.

B5 as Underground Railroad clearing house makes sense being all the way in neutral territory. The expansion of Franklin’s free clinic into the railroad is actually a pretty smart leap, even if Franklin himself announces it in the dumbest way ever. “I received a message from the kidnappers!” Like, it’s 0.25 of a second to go ‘why him? ohhhh..’ The illusion twist was pretty good, although I guessed something was up when Talia stood there all cool, surrounded by bodies and blowing smoke from her gun. Like, no, that’s not her. Fantastic imagery, but no.

I’m also sad we didn’t get another go of The Prisoner’s ‘be seeing you’ salute this episode.

Chief ACAB calling out Psi-corps as fascists is hilarious in a meta way.

Side note: The woman who had her baby taken from says she was a P11, the level before you become a Psi-cop (uggggh). So I guess Talia is just a representative of Psi-corps being a mere P5, rather than anything vaguely gestapo, and probably not even that any more.

Lots to unpack in this episode, although it feels like we’re probably done with Psi-corps for a bit now, with a fair few plot lines wrapped up. Maybe?

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



The_Doctor posted:

S2ep08 - A Race Through Dark Places

I feel like the show is inconsistent on lot of the logistical issues about the station, although it's still some fun detail whenever they come up.

I feel like a situation like psychics where it's demonstrably provable that there's real measurable advantages to certain genetic combinations over others, that's the only basis on which eugenics really begins to make sense. Like most human phenotypes you could use for trying to breed a new, different kind of human are totally pointless to breed for in the grand scheme of things, but if you could breed people to have laser eyes with eugenics or something like that, THEN it becomes something worth thinking about. And even then, highly questionable.

And if you watched the pilot movie that came out before the rest of the show, this isn't even the first time this subject has been brought up. G'Kar had his own interests in borrowing some human genome.

Also, APCAB.

RedSnapper
Nov 22, 2016


The_Doctor posted:

S2ep08 - A Race Through Dark Places

re: coffee
Maybe it's the issue of actual grown vs highly-processed instant?

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

RedSnapper posted:

re: coffee
Maybe it's the issue of actual grown vs highly-processed instant?


S2E8
I always figured that was it, since there's some line earlier about "You have coffee, real coffee?" Then there's just the plothole of a whole conspiracy to get it properly roasted without anyone noticing ...

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Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Or just imports are a bit more reliable now the station's been running for a few years and everyone's a bit more confident it's not going to explode or disappear.

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