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AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




S2E15 - And Now for a Word

I am a complete sucker for fake news shows inside TV/movies, stemming from Starship Troopers.

14 solar systems

John J. Sheridan?

Oh gently caress, Narn and Centauri shooting each other? Hundreds of deaths?

Lol @ Ivanova glaring at the Lt. being interviewed.

"You don't have to be crazy to work here but it helps "

Yup that's about the corny rear end poo poo I'd expect Sheridan to say on television.

Franklin's specialty is "xenobiology" which makes sense but I don't think was explicit before now.

Wow Franklin with the dark rear end story. I actually feel for him this time, much better writing than the GROPOS poo poo.

Nice interview with Sheridan - hinting around the fact that humans didn't really "win" the war.


"beauty and the beast are in the eye of the beholder" faaaaaaaaart.


Kosh Nerannick? Not sure we heard his whole name before this.

Oh, Delenn speaking a native Minbari language. Plus info about their home world. This episode has lots of little world building stuff.

Delenn really not doing well :smith:

Color me shocked that the Centauri were lying about WMDs not being on their ships

gently caress, G'Kar was born a slave? And they executed his father for spilling tea? Jesus Christ. Obviously have to take anything either G'Kar or Londo say with a grain of salt but if that's true, drat.

Holy hell, a centauri battle cruiser.

Lmfao at this Psi Corps commercial, God I love stuff like this.

At times like this it is especially bizarre that there is no human ambassador. They're letting a soldier nicknamed "star killer" make decisions that could put humans at war with any and all other species.

Jesus the battle cruisers blowing each other up, what an escalation.

Another good episode. I thought the reporter would get annoying like the one from S1 but it was a decent gimmick for an episode.

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Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


TheAardvark posted:



Kosh Nerannick? Not sure we heard his whole name before this.


Naranek

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993





Thanks, what I wrote was the spelling in the subtitles. It didn't seem right, but I didn't really want to go Google it for fear of spoilers.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~



Doctor Zero posted:

I still think it should have been Bear-ba-lon 5.

:colbert:

What is REALLY should have been is John Bearidan

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Michael Bearigaldi

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



Ambassador G'Bear

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Plush Naranek

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


TheAardvark posted:

S2E15 - And Now for a Word


Lmfao at this Psi Corps commercial, God I love stuff like this.


Did you notice the little bonus?

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


I can't Bear with you guys

Erulisse fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 13, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004








AntherUslessPoster posted:

I can't bear with you guys

You and I are like Polar opposites. I love puns.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~



MrL_JaKiri posted:

Did you notice the little bonus?

What I always notice is how the mom's body language just radiates terror during every second of the conversation with the Psi Cop

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


CainFortea posted:

You and I are like Polar opposites. I love puns.

I'm too Grizzly for all these the puns.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004








AntherUslessPoster posted:

I'm too Grizzly for all these the puns.

I'm simply over the Moon over this whole derail.

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


CainFortea posted:

I'm simply over the Moon over this whole derail.

Perhaps we should all Sloth away back to elder thread

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




MrL_JaKiri posted:

Did you notice the little bonus?

Not sure. Spoiler it for me?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



TheAardvark posted:

Not sure. Spoiler it for me?

There's a "subliminal" message that lasts for four frames. It's a real blink-and-you'll-miss-it type thing. It also may not be in the Amazon version, as they had to cut it for some non-American markets.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





TheAardvark posted:

Not sure. Spoiler it for me?

Subliminal message flashed in the commercial. It was not present in some regions’ releases so it may simply not have been present in what you watched.

adhuin
Sep 15, 2008

Take over the World!



TheAardvark posted:

Not sure. Spoiler it for me?

Here it is as an image.

spoilers for S2E15 - And Now for a Word:

https://i.imgur.com/s4b9ZLZ. jpg

Edit: Remove space before jpg when copypasting.

adhuin fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 13, 2020

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:



Might want to break that link in case anyone's reading on mobile. The Awful App likes to inline a lot of images.

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




ah, that's fantastic. I didn't notice it, but it may have been there.

adhuin
Sep 15, 2008

Take over the World!



ultrafilter posted:

Might want to break that link in case anyone's reading on mobile. The Awful App likes to inline a lot of images.

You can goatse awful app users with just urls? Lol.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep12 - Acts of Sacrifice

“It’s is good to have friends, is it not? Even if maybe, only for a little while.”

We now return to the ongoing war plot. G’kar scrabbling around for allies to help in the conflict, and at the end of it all a workable plan without getting the other governments officially involved. But it’s not nearly enough.
An incredibly exhausted G’kar walking away at the end of the episode, already on an incredibly low ebb from being stabbed and poisoned is a compelling image. Only to have Sheridan and Delenn offer him an adhesive medical strip in these trying times. He laughs and cries, and I can’t help but feel for him.

Kenickie killed a Narn! The underlying turmoil on the station is a nice window into how the war is affecting the participants, even when they’re nowhere near the fighting.

Franklin is apparently not a fan of the Prime Directive. His passion quickly ceding to anger at the Lumati is a great character note. Nice to return to his Underground Railroad skills at the end with Sheridan’s plan, it’s good continuity I wouldn’t have thought about.

Londo got a new, darker colour scheme, I see. It looks smarter, and ironically makes him stand out a little more. His scene with Garibaldi is a desperate scrabble for true friends when everyone is turning away, afraid of the warmonger. I was a little unsure of what exactly he and Garibaldi did at the end? Did he just ask Londo not to escalate the situation or something? Look the other way?

Ivanava’s B plot of trying to get the new race to sign up was interesting in a view of the class system on B5. It always feels strange that there’s sufficient room on the station for an sizeable underbelly to exist at all, considering we’ve been told several times that space is at a premium onboard. Was it designed that way? “And this is brown sector where the homeless will live and scavenge.”

The end note of her storyline was some much needed comedy, considering the gravity of the main plot, although it was very silly.

Not a great episode for me, although the mild politicking is revealing, especially with the explanations of why the various governments won’t get their hands dirty. The conflict isn’t theirs and there has already been so much war.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002



TheAardvark posted:

ah, that's fantastic. I didn't notice it, but it may have been there.

If memory serves, in the commentary for this episode (S2E15) JMS claims they contacted the FCC to get an exact threshold for something to be considered illegally subliminal, and made this bit toe the line as closely as possible.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






The_Doctor posted:

S2ep12 - Acts of Sacrifice

“It’s is good to have friends, is it not? Even if maybe, only for a little while.”

We now return to the ongoing war plot. G’kar scrabbling around for allies to help in the conflict, and at the end of it all a workable plan without getting the other governments officially involved. But it’s not nearly enough.
An incredibly exhausted G’kar walking away at the end of the episode, already on an incredibly low ebb from being stabbed and poisoned is a compelling image. Only to have Sheridan and Delenn offer him an adhesive medical strip in these trying times. He laughs and cries, and I can’t help but feel for him.

Kenickie killed a Narn! The underlying turmoil on the station is a nice window into how the war is affecting the participants, even when they’re nowhere near the fighting.

Franklin is apparently not a fan of the Prime Directive. His passion quickly ceding to anger at the Lumati is a great character note. Nice to return to his Underground Railroad skills at the end with Sheridan’s plan, it’s good continuity I wouldn’t have thought about.

Londo got a new, darker colour scheme, I see. It looks smarter, and ironically makes him stand out a little more. His scene with Garibaldi is a desperate scrabble for true friends when everyone is turning away, afraid of the warmonger. I was a little unsure of what exactly he and Garibaldi did at the end? Did he just ask Londo not to escalate the situation or something? Look the other way?

Ivanava’s B plot of trying to get the new race to sign up was interesting in a view of the class system on B5. It always feels strange that there’s sufficient room on the station for an sizeable underbelly to exist at all, considering we’ve been told several times that space is at a premium onboard. Was it designed that way? “And this is brown sector where the homeless will live and scavenge.”

The end note of her storyline was some much needed comedy, considering the gravity of the main plot, although it was very silly.

Not a great episode for me, although the mild politicking is revealing, especially with the explanations of why the various governments won’t get their hands dirty. The conflict isn’t theirs and there has already been so much war.


Discussion spoilers for
S2ep12 - Acts of Sacrifice



Garibaldi didn't really ask anything of Londo. Londo just took it upon himself to do them a favor and defuse the situation with the dead centauri, preventing a massive diplomatic incident. Because that is what one does for friends, yes? This is what made Garibaldi join him for a drink at the end of the episode, it reminded him that Londo wasn't always an asshat.

I did enjoy how in this episode G'kar is impotent but surrounded by well meaning and sympathetic friends, and Londo commands a lot of power but has no one to truly rely on.

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.


e: Also, I'm going to be watching S2E16 and S2E17 in reverse order starting with "Knives" as recommended here and elsewhere. I'll watch both and post separate blocks but I'd say the other watchers should decide the order themselves and wait until they've seen both to read either thoughts I post. I will hopefully be watching tonight but may not get to it until tomorrow.

AARD VARKMAN fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jul 14, 2020

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



TheAardvark posted:

S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.

There's a real-world comparison there: Hawaii has one of the highest homeless rates in the country. It's expensive to get there, but that also means that if you do manage to get there, or if you're just hit by bad luck and can't afford a home any more, you're stuck there because you can't afford to leave for opportunity elsewhere, and you're isolated from family or friends that could help you.

Anonymouse Mook
Jul 12, 2006

Showing Vettel the way since 1979



TheAardvark posted:

S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.


As others have said, B5 attracted a lot of people looking for a new life. If memory serves, Brown sector wasn't finished, which is why it is largely the way it is. Some of the lurkers in down below were people helping to build B5 that weren't able to find the means to leave.

Add to this, as a neutral station in a fairly out of the way place, you have a magnet for organised crime to join the party.


Trivia regarding down below denizens, 'Lurkers' were named as a reference to fans on the net. JMS being Extremely Online and all.

Blindeye
Sep 22, 2006

I can't believe I kissed you!


TheAardvark posted:

S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.


e: Also, I'm going to be watching S2E16 and S2E17 in reverse order starting with "Knives" as recommended here and elsewhere. I'll watch both and post separate blocks but I'd say the other watchers should decide the order themselves and wait until they've seen both to read either thoughts I post. I will hopefully be watching tonight but may not get to it until tomorrow.

There is an in-universe explanation for this; as I recall a lot of these people were laborers flown out to build the stations or work on it but, for whatever reason, couldn't leave when their jobs were done.

Antifa Poltergeist
Jun 3, 2004

"We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"





Yeah, but lets be honest here The station is suposed to be a closed loop, with limited resources , unless they can ship massive chunks of h20 and their hidroponic system is really really good.it would be less resource intensive just to send them home.or other more unsavory solutions.

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




Antifa Poltergeist posted:

Yeah, but lets be honest here The station is suposed to be a closed loop, with limited resources , unless they can ship massive chunks of h20 and their hidroponic system is really really good.it would be less resource intensive just to send them home.or other more unsavory solutions.

Exactly. I'm aware of the in-universe explanations we've been given, it's just they've given us enough information about everything else that the in-universe explanation seems like nonsense. This is the hub of trade for all of these races, the brown section would be completely booked out by traders from every race years before the station opened. I'm not complaining, I realize the need for it and I don't let it bother me while I'm watching the show, but it is still ridiculous on face value.

E: I'm not trying to trash the show or anything, I can appreciate it as intended, but this one thing just feels really designed for plot rather than to fit the facts.

AARD VARKMAN fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 14, 2020

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


TheAardvark posted:

Exactly. I'm aware of the in-universe explanations we've been given, it's just they've given us enough information about everything else that the in-universe explanation seems like nonsense. This is the hub of trade for all of these races, the brown section would be completely booked out by traders from every race years before the station opened. I'm not complaining, I realize the need for it and I don't let it bother me while I'm watching the show, but it is still ridiculous on face value.

E: I'm not trying to trash the show or anything, I can appreciate it as intended, but this one thing just feels really designed for plot rather than to fit the facts.

Remember that it's viewed as hopeless for its mission and a backwater outpost in the middle of nowhere...

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


TheAardvark posted:

designed for plot

Will you bring your business to a station that was deemed hopeless and essentially was awaited to be destroyed or disappear in first 24hrs after its commission?

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





And if Earthforce has a no free rides policy - which it seems they do - then they'll stick to it.

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993




TraderStav posted:

Remember that it's viewed as hopeless for its mission and a backwater outpost in the middle of nowhere...

Yes, but it's also been called the main hub of trade between the races. Surely Earth Alliance wants to retain that, billions or trillions of dollars (credits) have to be coming through the station. Why would Earth have ever built 5 of them if they didn't expect it to benefit them?

Let's table this discussion until after we finish the show, though. We're working off 1.5 seasons of info versus 5, other things will come up, no reason to chance spoilers or anything.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


TheAardvark posted:

S2E12:

I think I said it before but yeah it is somehow the hardest suspension of disbelief in the series for me that there is an underbelly on Babylon 5 that they let drifters and poor people sink down to. Not because the society we've seen is above that - with Psicorps in charge it's not a surprise at all. Just that the extreme expense of getting someone out to Babylon 5 seems like it would totally preclude that kind of society from ever forming.

This is my issue too. That there are enough people stuck in limbo there that it’s a whole shanty town Down Below. As I said before, with space at an absolute premium there (by dint of being a space station, you can’t expand anywhere) I can’t imagine the B5 crew realistically allowing that amount of precious space to remain at the hands of an underclass who aren’t contributing. I could envisage relief efforts to repatriate or hostels to home them, but to just abandon them in such squalor is odd at best. Reminder that the station has only been in operation about 2-3 year at this point, so this has all sprung up relatively quickly.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

"I think he's watching us..."

"No, it's just the Mountain Peeks."
(Source)



The_Doctor posted:

This is my issue too. That there are enough people stuck in limbo there that it’s a whole shanty town Down Below. As I said before, with space at an absolute premium there (by dint of being a space station, you can’t expand anywhere) I can’t imagine the B5 crew realistically allowing that amount of precious space to remain at the hands of an underclass who aren’t contributing. I could envisage relief efforts to repatriate or hostels to home them, but to just abandon them in such squalor is odd at best. Reminder that the station has only been in operation about 2-3 year at this point, so this has all sprung up relatively quickly.

I think earth-centric views of relative wealth kind of skew things here. Even ambassadorial quarters, the absolute height of expense and luxury in any Earth city you care to visit, are no more than a one bedroom apartment at most on B5. The poor scrabblers in down below are the working class on the station. "Hostels to home them" are what they already live in.

Antifa Poltergeist
Jun 3, 2004

"We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"





Finger Prince posted:

I think earth-centric views of relative wealth kind of skew things here. Even ambassadorial quarters, the absolute height of expense and luxury in any Earth city you care to visit, are no more than a one bedroom apartment at most on B5. The poor scrabblers in down below are the working class on the station. "Hostels to home them" are what they already live in.

Yeah this is the one that makes sense and is now cannon in my head. work there, live in squalor but maybe you find a way to strike it rich by sheer luck.b5 is a trade hub that's poor in terms of wealth, but the wealth that goes through it is massive.like a space tollbooth

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



TheAardvark posted:

Exactly. I'm aware of the in-universe explanations we've been given, it's just they've given us enough information about everything else that the in-universe explanation seems like nonsense. This is the hub of trade for all of these races, the brown section would be completely booked out by traders from every race years before the station opened. I'm not complaining, I realize the need for it and I don't let it bother me while I'm watching the show, but it is still ridiculous on face value.

You try getting people to reserve rooms on the Titanic V with the tagline "We're pretty sure that this one won't mysteriously vanish without a trace like the last one did, or explode like the 3 before that".

I think the main idea is that Down Below wasn't intended for habitation, but just wound up being the place where the overflow went after they started to build up. People weren't meant to be living around the waste reclamation facilities. Much of it was also unfinished, so it's basically people setting up shop in an empty crawlspace. Clearing them out would be expensive, and B5's always having budget trouble.

The Alpha Centauri
Feb 15, 2019


Love this thread

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paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW


Yeah my understanding was that area wasn't meant to be any kind of living area. They're in the equivalent of the crawlspace under a house.

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