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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




paragon1 posted:

Yeah my understanding was that area wasn't meant to be any kind of living area. They're in the equivalent of the crawlspace under a house.

I think at least some parts of it were intended to be finished as habitable sections, but the station ran out of money before they got to it. Other parts are basically maintenance ducts and open space between hulls and whatnot.

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Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E17 - Knives

There's a baseball field on B5. :ok:

Londo and Vir singing together was fantastic.

This episode is much more whacky/monster of the weeky than the last handful have been.

It sure is taking Sheridan a long time to figure out he's hallucinating.

Some good Londo plot, facing the consequences for being part of the conspiracy.

Ooh, Babylon 4 coming up again.

Oh gently caress a duel!

Wtf is going on out here with Sheridan

Somehow a good episode by the end. The Londo plotline was excellent.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E16 - In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum

Interesting, they sent Londo back to Centauri Prime..

And Morden is back.

Holy gently caress Vir! I'd like to be there when they put your head on a pike. :staredog: What a loving badass.

Ah, Sheridan's wife and the Icarus. I can see why this makes more sense after the visions he had in Knives.

Oh gently caress Morden was on the ship with his wife?

Wow. The Night Watch. This some straight fascist poo poo. Their symbol is even a loving black armband.

Really Garibaldi? You only follow the rules when you're in that office? What a strangely specific moral code. The one time I actually agree with holding someone without charges and Garibaldi finally finds his compassion. poo poo, just charge him with suspicion of destroying the Icarus. Seriously, you're the captain of a space station that's predecessors were all destroyed. You find a guy on your station who survived a ship explosion and is quite clearly lying about it, of course you shouldn't let him roam around the station.

Sheridan being coy as hell about using Talia. Real rich talking about how she can't scan someone because of the spirit of the law the same day the government tried to recruit you to psychically keep tabs on people.

Finally some serious big picture story stuff too. The Minbari fought the Shadows a thousand years ago. The Vorlons are one of the ancient races! Not too surprising. The reason for Kosh not leaving the suit is revealed as well, or at least one of them. "Everyone" recognizing him is interesting though.

Flashback in black and white.

Oh poo poo Kosh can beam.. video? Memory? Out his eye hole. His wife might be alive, drat. Sheridan, now knowing about the Shadows, should really tell Kosh and Delenn that the Centauri also asked for him to be released..

Zack being given a lot of face time this episode. And signing up for fascism duty...

Hell yeah Sheridan wants Kosh to teach him how to beat the Shadows.

Amazing episode, this is the poo poo I signed up for.


Watching them in this order was the right choice. There would have been some serious tonal whiplash going to Knives after this one.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Knives is the last episode written by someone other than JMS until series 5 (and even then, there's only one)

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Knives is the last episode written by someone other than JMS until series 5 (and even then, there's only one)

Still a record unbeaten by anyone in the WGA, by miles.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





TraderStav posted:

Still a record unbeaten by anyone in the WGA, by miles.

I think at some point JMS said that he wouldn't have done it if he'd known exactly what he was signing up for. TV writing is a lot of work.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


ultrafilter posted:

I think at some point JMS said that he wouldn't have done it if he'd known exactly what he was signing up for. TV writing is a lot of work.

I just got to that part in his autobiography and he had no choice apparently. They were on an insane time crunch and there was no time to hold freelancers hands so he just did the needful. The man is a machine. I'd say it was a shame that he doesn't have children but that stuff is going upbringing I feel, and he has those experiences in spades.

Not that he also didn't say what you said.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations

Hey, they answered my concerns about Franklin being the doctor for all of the aliens somehow. Makes much more sense that they would mostly go to doctors of their own kind.

The policy of requiring a station doctor to sign off on all deaths makes perfect sense to me. We've already seen how not doing so would be abused by some races.

Thinking back on it, I wonder what the official policy is on duels to the death. They were against that one race murdering themselves because of colors, but Londo killing a guy is fine?

Lmao at this whole explanation of Minbari cooking. 2 days to prepare a meal, 15 steps of sanctification, yeesh.

Haha I actually loled at Lennier's little pained "heh heh" that he'd have to spend another 2 days cooking if Sheridan hosed up the ritual of eating.

I KNEW they were going to force him to eat right handed. Remind me never to eat with Minbari.

Oh poo poo a Markab plague! Something something COVID joke here.

Interesting that they've given this alien race a name and multiple appearences over the last few episodes.

Haha Lennier again. Also that little exchange between him and Delenn. "Certain Excesses"? Cannibalism?

Dr. Franklin being on a first name basis with this alien doctor is cool. Franklin in general has been getting a lot of treatment this season.

Oh my God this plot is hitting way too close to home right now. The attempt to cover it up because they don't want to get voted of office. Holy moley.

I like the blood taking gun Franklin's using

An ambassador from the Markabs! I am very happy we're fleshing out this seemingly populous race on Babylon 5. The more alien races the better.

Oh gently caress it passed between species :ohdear:

Minbaria?

I have looked deep inside myself and decided that I ship Delenn and Sheridan :colbert:

"Analyze the problem, choose whichever strategy makes least sense, and then do it." insert gigantic thinky face here

Another lol from Lennier

...holy gently caress, the reveal of the quarantine room. Delenn and Lennier holding each other. I was not expecting that at all. This show gets dark

The entire planet wiped out?!?!?!?! :smith:

Beat this guy's rear end, Franklin. That joke wasn't even a joke!

Great episode again, even though it was a contained plot. This show is really picking up.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Another solid write up and reactions. We've all been waiting for one of you to get to this one due to 2020 and all

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





TheAardvark posted:

S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations


...holy gently caress, the reveal of the quarantine room. Delenn and Lennier holding each other. I was not expecting that at all. This show gets dark

The entire planet wiped out?!?!?!?! :smith:


They picked up a lot of new viewers in season 2 and had to clarify that B5 isn't Star Trek.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



TheAardvark posted:

S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations

I feel like this episode hits so much harder on the points that Believers was trying to make, while also showing the positive side of religion, Delenn's willingness to risk herself to help others. The ending had much more of a punch to it as well, with all the visuals leading into it.

I'd even say that while the episode feels extremely relevant because of being literally about a plague, it can also be taken figuratively to be about any other kind of problem that people just train themselves to ignore with social norms. The income gap often gets ignored by people believing that the wealthy deserve their wealth and the poor deserve their lack of wealth. Obesity, mental health, addiction, and STDs often get treated as personal failings rather than health issues. I think that's also a large part of the Me Too movement, having to overpower the old social norms of "boys will be boys" or "if she's dressed slutty she's basically asking for sexual harrassment", and there's still a lot of work being done against the old norms and trying to figure out how to put new norms in place.

And of course, the end where if you only can start to respond to the problem at the very last moment, then, well...that could be relevant for other reasons.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Confessions and Lamentations: I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a direct reference to the AIDS epidemic, given what was going on when it was made and the reference to the disease being associated with "unclean/deviant" members of society

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Polaron posted:

Confessions and Lamentations: I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a direct reference to the AIDS epidemic, given what was going on when it was made and the reference to the disease being associated with "unclean/deviant" members of society

Absolutely.

Action Jacktion
Jun 3, 2003


TheAardvark posted:

S2E16 - In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum

Wow. The Night Watch. This some straight fascist poo poo. Their symbol is even a loving black armband.

JMS said he knew it was obvious but he couldn't think of a better way you could easily differentiate them. Maybe they could've worn hats?

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Production trivia again ! Back during the original airing, after S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations - there was a break in showings for several months. This was unusual at the time, there had been a two month break before the last episode of Season 1, but S2E18 aired on 5/24/95 and S2E19 on 11/11/95. So there was a certain amount of hype when the Final Four were finally broadcast. Especially since they led right into Season 3.


I'm going by Google for air dates as this was all a very long time ago

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





The UK got the episodes a month or so earlier, I think.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Confessions and Lamentations: They made a whole bunch of Markab prosthetic masks ramping up for this episode, a number of background masks but also plenty that were for specific performers. For a species that would be wiped out in this episode. JMS reports that both the makeup and wardrobe people were disbelieving when they saw the Markab were all gone now and they wouldn’t be using the masks and costumes again.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



ultrafilter posted:

The UK got the episodes a month or so earlier, I think.

No, that was the last season. The UK got the world premiere of the final five episodes.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Jedit posted:

No, that was the last season. The UK got the world premiere of the final five episodes.

No link cause this is the blind watch thread, but per the Lurker's guide, s2e19 aired in the UK on July 25 and in the US on October 11.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Out of respect for the show, I will now wait 6 months before watching S2E19.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Jk The show's quality and my interest in it have ramped up super hard over the last few episodes and I can't possibly stop watching now.

S2E19 - Divided Loyalties

Hahaha I love the idea of this ridiculous news printing machine.

Thought that was Garibaldi running around Mars for a second until I saw he had more than three hairs left in his dumbass widow's peak.

"Pak Mara use only" sign. Nice to finally see a SPACE BATHROOM complete with inscrutable objects for alien usage.

Oh boy a Talia/Ivanova sleepover, just what everyone's been begging for.

Whoa, the plot from the pilot finally returns.

Oh gently caress a traitor in their ranks? A psychic sleeper agent?

Probably Talia, right? There was that question of why she only became friends with Ivanova recently..

Butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts butts

Oh we are actually getting a Delenn Sheridan romance plot. I am down, way down.

Also down with a Talia/Ivanova romance. That was definitely just hinted at :staredog:

Man this Zack guy is a real rube.

Daaaamn what is going on with Ivanova?

Aaaaahhhh now THIS is interesting. Of course it's always hovered as a possibility that she inherited some amount of psychic power.

Inviting a psychic in to bed with her took a LOT of guts considering all this.

Oh wow, that dream came back? That was a while ago.

Hahaha Garibaldi you shithead.

This is great poo poo with Sheridan calling them all in for a minute each and small platitudes. And he didn't even have anything to say to Zack.

Good thing they didn't bring her in to their secret group, huh?

Ooooooohhhhhhhhh the KOSH thing where he was saying random poo poo in front of her. Makes more sense now.

Wow this is nuts. Ahhh golly, manipulating her in her sleep to get with Ivanova. Woo boy. Oh, Kosh let the original psychic see him. Dope.

I will be interested to see what more we get out of Talia. It doesn't seem like she'll be returning as a good guy, but there's a lot of psi-corps to cover and we still have her secret TK abilities to worry about.

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jul 16, 2020

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:

The show's quality and my interest in it have ramped up super hard over the last few episodes and I can't possibly stop watching now.

Welcome to Babylon 5.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





e: Nothing here.

ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jul 16, 2020

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




I just rewatched it twice and have no idea what you're talking about so I'm going to go ahead and assume you're thinking of a different scene.

At the end of S2E19,

e: removed for other watchers

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 16, 2020

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


S2E19

Talia's fate gave me nightmares as a kid. It's still an episode I skip on re-watches.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

YESSSS I've been waiting to see folks reaction to these episodes, this thread is amazing

Anonymouse Mook
Jul 12, 2006

Showing Vettel the way since 1979



TheAardvark posted:

S2E18 - Confessions and Lamentations



Oh poo poo a Markab plague! Something something COVID joke here.

Interesting that they've given this alien race a name and multiple appearences over the last few episodes.


This was intentional. JMS wanted to make sure people would be familiar with the Markab, so it would be more meaningful when they all die, where it wouldn't if it was a race we had hardly ever seen before. I'm looking at you, Dilgar

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


I wouldn't be able to stop watching either, you're just 2 episodes away from the season finale!

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S2E20 - The Long, Twilight Struggle

Seeing someone from the main cast currently on an actual planet is a trip.

And the return of the dude what installed himself in the planet below.

Lol about him aging down 30 years.

G'Kar!

Fuuuuuck this war is about to get real serious. loving mass drivers! They'll get every loving other race against them.

Dear God they're going to paint this as his idea aren't they! He'll be the most reviled warlord in history. Urgh

Delenn's been reading up on cursing :love:

Draal pretty succinctly summing up my own feelings about Sheridan. Wasn't sure at first but he's Good.

Ahhh poo poo the planet itself is going to fight the shadows.

Fuckkkking Centauri. They're an evil race for sure. Morden chose correctly. I bet Vir isn't for any of this.

Also, Zathras... The guy that helped steal Babylon 4?

Yeah, this is NOT Star Trek.

Wow. Yep, seems pretty clear to me now why G'Kar will be the one to kill Londo.

What a speech by G'Kar.

It would be nice to know more about the relative army strengths of Minbari and Humans to the Centauri. The show will tell us eventually. The new Minbari Warrior Caste led grey council surely can not be pleased by all of this Centauri expansion.

Huh this is all interesting. All these people pledging themselves to Sheridan.

That felt like a season finale to me, holy poo poo.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






I am enjoying this

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


2x20 is my favourite episode of the entire programme. It feels like there's enough plot for 3-4 episodes, and it has some of the most iconic moments in the show (most notably Londo staring out the window, which is a lovely little shot).

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



Something that I really, really like about Babylon 5 that's really been on display in the last few episodes is that they're so willing to do big group scenes that I just don't feel like Star Trek ever does. They're willing to have just a whole bunch of extras milling about in the background or if the crowd itself and what they're doing is the focus of the scene. Not just random extras either, there's always plenty of alien species around unless there's a specific reason why they can't be there. It's a real gallimaufry look.

And in service of that, so many of the sets are these big rooms with plenty of depth and room for people to do their thing. And the general look applies to the space scenes too, because while the dated look is a little rough, there are constantly way more ships and objects onscreen than you could afford on a TV budget if they were real miniatures.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




MrL_JaKiri posted:

2x20 is my favourite episode of the entire programme. It feels like there's enough plot for 3-4 episodes, and it has some of the most iconic moments in the show (most notably Londo staring out the window, which is a lovely little shot).

There were so many great moments in this episode it actually lead to me writing up less than the last one. I was way too glued to the screen after the first 5-10 minutes to remember to write much down.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



This is the episode that made me like Sheridan.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


TheAardvark posted:

S2E20 - The Long, Twilight Struggle


What a speech by G'Kar.



The ACTUAL. BEST.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Extremely hype to see folks' reactions to how season 3's first episodes start and play out

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk








Keep this kind of stuff to the other thread please.

Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002



I'm extremely hype for just about every single episode in the entire rest of the show. Warn me about that why don'tcha??

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

I'm extremely hype for just about every single episode in the entire rest of the show. Warn me about that why don'tcha??

:argh:

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

I'm extremely hype for just about every single episode in the entire rest of the show. Warn me about that why don'tcha??

What, even [redacted]?

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