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Aardvark!
May 17, 1993





this line is from an episode only I have gotten to FYI

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MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


TheAardvark posted:

this line is from an episode only I have gotten to FYI

I thought it was from end of season 1, edited.

That'll teach me for trying to be funny.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Vavrek posted:

You've hit on my favorite dumb thing about the Kosh costume: It doesn't fit through the doors on Babylon 5. This is why Kosh is always mysteriously already standing there in any scene he appears in.

I love this, and also the fact that it can be canon, somehow no-one has ever seen him going through a doorway...

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







The_Doctor posted:

Morpheus? :stare:

Are they background League of Non-Aligned Worlds?

They are called the Gaim, iirc, which is a Neil gaiman reference

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


SlothfulCobra posted:

There was one alien who was just a puppet. But if you're watching season 2, you probably noticed that he stopped showing up because the showrunners weren't satisfied with the effect. Which I feel is a shame.

At least they got work on Buffy after the Babylon 5 job fell through.

(https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/She-Mantis)

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



Just another general reminder to not talk about future events in the show that the blind watch has not reached yet.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


sebmojo posted:

They are called the Gaim, iirc, which is a Neil gaiman reference

Oh, that would have been fun to learn.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S3E2 - Convictions

Lol at the aftershock of Kosh's appearance bringing all these visitors

The missionaries here to investigate. Hopefully this means some specifics on how the Vorlons have been loving with the races over the millenia.

Shang Tsung! I doubt he's a new main character so they must be setting him up to die soon.

Lmao at this drunk vacationer harassing Lennier. Who immediately tells a lie. :colbert:

Oh gently caress a bomb at customs. Lennier ending up on the wrong side of the door after saving Londo. :ohdear:

Always love a good slapstick "walk and talk" joke like G'Kar turning the wrong way. Awesome long single take, that's one of my favorite things in film. Really trying to give you a full sense of how bustling B5 is.

I like that we're touching on the Londo/Lennier friendship again. My feelings for Londo may be irreparably tainted after what happened to the Narn, though.


Londo going for the annoy Lennier back to consciousness strategy is great. Loled at the Centauri light bulb joke.

Oh man are these missionaries going to be like the new recurring scientist/specialist person that the show hasn't given the station? I'm down with that if so.

Related, it's kinda strange how they push that chief engineer/maintenance role off on Garibaldi and sometimes Franklin. I would think the person in charge of life support maintenance / hull repair / keeping up the fusion reactor or whatever powers it would be like, #3 in command in this station. And Garibaldi seems to be entirely concerned with policing.

drat, almost got Londo again.

Another great Elevator Scene. G'Kar just sitting in the corner laughing... God drat. Just refusing to help Londo get out. This is awesome.

Londo being taught his actions have consequences. Stuck with a Narn who would sacrifice himself just to see him die.

YES! it's been a while since we had a real fuckin scenery chewer guest!

Hmm they didn't kill Shang Tsung off yet. Thought for sure he'd have to be the one to carry the bomb

"I fear I have served the present by sacrificing the future." Lennier can say some cold blooded poo poo sometimes :stare:

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep18 - Confessions and Lamentations

“I didn’t know similarity was required for the exercise of compassion.”

Keffer continuing to search for the Shadow ship is some nice continuity, and Sheridan’s curtailing of ‘all freelance expeditions’ to try and keep his crew safe adds a fearful tone to it all.

Oh, a plague episode. How timely! The conference scene where Franklin pays out what he does/doesn’t know shows a bunch of other officers, and my first thought was ‘where have these guys been hiding?!’ This is what it looks like when people who give a drat about other people hit a pandemic situation. Honestly, it all hits a little too close to home right now.

Franklin definitely made it worse by rounding up all the Markabs and taking them to Medlab for testing. Isolating them and testing them in their quarters would have been far more effective in stopping the spread. That said, the 4000 Markabs isolating in their own quarters were doomed by the testing. If they’d just stayed inside, they’d have lived.

Lazarenn was a good, tempered character, and a nice counterpoint to Franklin. I wish we’d had him along before this episode, their relationship really gelled well. Him and Stephen lamenting about how dumb people are when it comes to these situations was a fun scene. When Lazarenn passes, Franklin sat down on the isolab console, and the cart of supplies came into shot, and I instantly knew that cart was about to be dramatically pulled over. Some things never change in TV. :allears:

The moment the Minbari meal came along, I expected it to be fussy, and I was not disappointed. That said, Sheridan could use a little more patience here. Appreciate the truly well-prepared meal, taste your food.

More importantly, OOOOOOOH dat simmering Delenn/Sheridan romance! Deleridan! ‘Call me John.’ and then she turns to go and just for a moment bites her bottom lip and OOOOOOOOOH! My first thought about this after the episode finished was about the possibility of Sheridan’s wife still being alive that the previous episode (2ep16) dangled. What throws a spanner in a good budding romance arc than the return of a previous loved one?

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





The_Doctor posted:

More importantly, OOOOOOOH dat simmering Delenn/Sheridan romance! Deleridan! ‘Call me John.’ and then she turns to go and just for a moment bites her bottom lip and OOOOOOOOOH! My first thought about this after the episode finished was about the possibility of Sheridan’s wife still being alive that the previous episode (2ep16) dangled. What throws a spanner in a good budding romance arc than the return of a previous loved one?


Mira Furlan is so damned good. She gets handed a really complicated character, and then the directors want nuance from her whether she's screaming "burn them all !" as an order, or biting her lip at her dinner date. There's never anything inconsistent or held back in her portrayal of Delenn, and that makes her a real pleasure to watch. It's a shame she didn't get more awards attention, but she has had an excellent career after coming to America..

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Aug 3, 2020

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Fix the spoiler tag.

RedSnapper
Nov 22, 2016


TheAardvark posted:

S3E2 - Convictions


I hear you

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


RedSnapper posted:

I hear you

I hear you!!

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





CainFortea posted:

Fix the spoiler tag.

Oops.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009


The_Doctor posted:

S2ep18 - Confessions and Lamentations

Y'all's watchthrough got me to poking around the Lurker's Guide for the first time in decades, and I came across this quote from Straczynski which is eerily relevant, 20+ years later:

In response to a post accusing him of trying to make the epidemic a political statement due to what was going on with AIDS at the time -

"The whole point of the episode is NOT political; it says that if you make a disease political on either side, you're gonna die. You have to set aside all that crap and just Deal With The Problem. The only "side" this episode took was in advocating compassion for those afflicted.

I have enough just dealing with what's actually *in* my series; don't compound the problem by adding things that you saw only in your own head, and which exist nowhere in dialogue or in the story. You are adding the template of your own beliefs as an overlay, and seeing this story through it. That ain't my problem. If you see this disease as political, that's your lookout. This show says that ANY attempt to politicize a disease is species-dangerous thinking. Period."

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Nipponophile posted:

Y'all's watchthrough got me to poking around the Lurker's Guide for the first time in decades, and I came across this quote from Straczynski which is eerily relevant, 20+ years later:

In response to a post accusing him of trying to make the epidemic a political statement due to what was going on with AIDS at the time -

"The whole point of the episode is NOT political; it says that if you make a disease political on either side, you're gonna die. You have to set aside all that crap and just Deal With The Problem. The only "side" this episode took was in advocating compassion for those afflicted.

I have enough just dealing with what's actually *in* my series; don't compound the problem by adding things that you saw only in your own head, and which exist nowhere in dialogue or in the story. You are adding the template of your own beliefs as an overlay, and seeing this story through it. That ain't my problem. If you see this disease as political, that's your lookout. This show says that ANY attempt to politicize a disease is species-dangerous thinking. Period."


Which is horrendously naive at best - compassion for the afflicted is a political position, as current events show very clearly.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020


Since you are all comfortably past Babylon Squared, I had a question about the version you saw:

Do Garibaldi's eyes still flash red in the future shot? He did in some versions but not in others and I'm curious to see how people are experiencing it now.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Incelshok Na posted:

Since you are all comfortably past Babylon Squared, I had a question about the version you saw:

Do Garibaldi's eyes still flash red in the future shot? He did in some versions but not in others and I'm curious to see how people are experiencing it now.

I just had a quick look, and no, I can’t see them flash red at any point. Was it meant to be noticeable?

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




weird how i feel like you bringing that up at all a month later is actually a massive spoiler

even if it's a red herring/technical glitch gently caress you for making me think about it for the rest of the show now

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





TheAardvark posted:

weird how i feel like you bringing that up at all a month later is actually a massive spoiler

even if it's a red herring/technical glitch gently caress you for making me think about it for the rest of the show now

If it makes you feel any different that account was a lovely rereg that has managed to be probed almost the whole time it’s been registered and is probably best put on ignore.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009


TheAardvark posted:

even if it's a red herring/technical glitch gently caress you for making me think about it for the rest of the show now

It was a technical glitch. One of the FX guys was doodling on a still of Garibaldi's face while waiting on the scene to render, and he accidentally saved that frame instead of discarding it.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Nipponophile posted:

It was a technical glitch. One of the FX guys was doodling on a still of Garibaldi's face while waiting on the scene to render, and he accidentally saved that frame instead of discarding it.

Thank you, that makes me feel much better. In a show like this something like that being an important foreshadow doesn't just seem believable, it seems inevitable.

At least they made me mad enough to watch the next episode. :colbert: S3E3 coming up

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Nipponophile posted:

It was a technical glitch. One of the FX guys was doodling on a still of Garibaldi's face while waiting on the scene to render, and he accidentally saved that frame instead of discarding it.

No actual spoilers but a reflection inspired by what was quoted here: The scene in question featured a bunch of PPG shots. In 1994, that took time to render.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




S3E3 - A Day In The Strife

Didn't we already have this episode? With the dock workers' strike?

Hell yeah Moustache Tough. I love the seemingly large barbarian population that lives on Babylon 5.

The 500-to-1 Narn-Centauri thing makes for some really tough pragmatic moral decisions. I'm glad that's being plumbed.

I just realized I forgot to do a season 2 character ranking. But let me just say I've repented now, possibly via Stockholm Syndrome, and can easily give a top 1 ranking:

1. Garibaldi's hair strip

This whole bar scene has been pretty stilted. The entire scene delivered this: "Sheridan can take a defense force and make at an offense force." and it lasted several minutes without any memorable jokes or real character development.

I appreciate the willingness JMS has to show Londo as the Nazi Officer he's supposed to represent. Jurasik is an amazing actor, and he's a pleasure in every scene, but yeah, he's still a god damned Nazi, and he's acting like it. Hell he's the guy who aligned them with the loving devil. I have a lot of respect for the show for not trying to immediately paint him as some kind of good guy.

Vir representing that lower level lieutenant going "What the gently caress are we doing?" fits really well with his constant shows of being a strongly moral character. Vir is top tier.

"You have lost much more than a friend, Ambassador. But that is between you and whatever gods you worship." The knowledge that JMS is writing every single one of these now may be affecting me, but I am still struck by this incredible line being in the same episode as that 3 minute long scene at the bar with the 3 humans earlier.

Oh god another Garibaldi-Franklin scene. I can not get over the feeling during these scenes that I'm watching an early scene in a horrible MST3K movie, before things get crazy. I think it may be Franklin's still mostly wooden acting, and Garibaldi isn't great either. I think that's the problem for me - they and to a lesser extent Ivanova are all inferior actors to everyone else around them. Putting them with any of the other actors is fine because they all give these energetic performances that make you gloss over their performances.

Franklin got him a meth addiction

i like when they give this random male model on the B5 bridge a bunch of lines

Great exposition Sheridan (about the unidentified alien asking questions), but what if they're actually looking for intelligent races that represent a threat (those that are close to high level tech) and come murder you? maybe failure is the right option????? thank god we have this one single military leader to decide the fate of all known intelligent races. definitely don't consult Kosh or Delenn

I don't want to harp on about Franklin's acting all that much but it really does feel like 80s B-movie flick stuff and it takes away from the seriousness a bit. The following scene of the Narn guest actor was way better.

G'Kar being willing to return home definitely fits his character.

Ivanova's Ice Water Joke wasn't delivered great either.


I liked this episode for the most part, I just think it relied too much on the lesser actors, and their performances were not good.


Hell yes. Sheridan realizes my exact problem. this show loving rules

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?




On Franklin's actor (no plot spoilers): Keep in mind the actor was almost completely deaf, so he had to memorize the entire script and work off reading lips. I'm not saying he's the greatest actor, but the work it took for him to do the job was really impressive.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S2ep19 - Divided Loyalties

“Something's gone your way today. It's the way the universe works. Wait just a little while, and the wheel turns."

Delenn keeping track of her own people via Earth press shows how far she’s on the outs with her own government. The idea of individualised newspapers printed to personal preference is cute, but already feels outdated, like when 1950s sci-fi writers try and extrapolate out from their worldview and miss the mark wildly. Deleridan continues to gather steam though! :toot:

The slow queerness continues with Ivanova and Talia. All they’re basically missing at this point is a cat. :allears: Talia waking up and reaching across the bed, clearly expecting Ivanova to be there is a real moment. There’s clear implication that this was an intimate sleepover, and what would have kicked off their relationship properly. Of course, it’s an absolute gutpunch that the Control personality basically worked Talia into developing feelings for Ivanova just to get close. That Control determined Ivanova was the easiest to get close to to pump for information makes me think back to the couple of scenes where it looks like Talia is mildly flirting with Garibaldi. Was that the sleeper personality putting out feelers? To see what might work? It starts becoming a question of free will and how many of her own actions are her own, and which she’s nudged into by Control. Was Talia even interested in women? All her previous lovers that came to B5 were men.

Lyta! Oh dang! We’re doing deep dives back to the pilot! My first thought is that she was there in instill paranoia amongst the command stuff, get them all distrusting eachother. Then the episode pushes you into thinking it’s probably Ivanova, but she’s having her own issues, finally outing herself as a latent telepath, complete with awkward sofa talk (who said JMS wasn’t subtle?). I mean, has she tried not being a latent telepath?

The reveal it’s Talia comes very suddenly, and at the end of it, she’s just free to go? Just like that? She did just try and kill Lyta. That’s surely a couple of days in a holding cell at least?

Now, is the hidden personality Control the same Control that was part of Bureau 13? If so, was Talia’s hidden personality talking to them? And if so, it’s hilarious in hindsight that Control!Talia identified Real!Talia as a threat to be eliminated.

Garibaldi flashed back to the bizarre conversation Kosh had with the cyborg, but didn’t really make any reference to explaining it. So it just raises more questions. Did Kosh know? Could he sense the sleeper personality and was trying to examine it? Does he have a copy of Talia’s personality on a data crystal? Can she be restored from backup? :ohdear:

Speaking of Kosh, Lyta going to see him and being bathed in the light of his suit opening up was an intriguing ending. Was that the sound of wings? If Kosh turns out to be a goddamn angel (and I’m annoying myself with how well that fits my working theory) I’m gonna make ಠ_ಠ faces.

Where is Lyta going now? Continuing on the run from Psi-Corps? Maybe she can actually head into Vorlon space if Kosh gave his blessing? With Talia gone, there’s space for a telepath on B5 again, so I’m guessing she’ll probably be back.

Side note:
Sheridan doesn’t eat rear end. Motorbutt doesn’t sound good? Did the millennial/zoomer age teach you nothing?

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011



One of the fundamentals of the technological future that B5 presents is that nobody ever figured out an alternative to CRTs, so screens never became easily portable.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



Since I haven't watched Babylon 5, I decided I can't adequately mod this thread as well as I could.

Sebmojo will be thread ik here from now on, please be nice to him.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Spoilers through Divided Loyalties: It's really interesting to see the difference in how modern viewers react to various things in the show vs. how we looked at them at the time. Garibaldi's a completely standard 90s TV cop and Franklin's behavior in The Long Dark was completely in line with soap opera doctors at the time, so none of us batted an eyelash at either of them. But most of us had never seen a same sex relationship portrayed on television, let alone one in which the people involved were presented as fully three dimensional characters with a physical relationship, and that really stuck out. I wouldn't say it was controversial because the fandom was generally liberal and the general public wasn't really paying attention, but it was definitely notable, and JMS took a little heat for including it. Now new viewers don't even even realize that it was ever even a topic of conversation.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Grand Fromage posted:

On Franklin's actor (no plot spoilers): Keep in mind the actor was almost completely deaf, so he had to memorize the entire script and work off reading lips. I'm not saying he's the greatest actor, but the work it took for him to do the job was really impressive.

Contains some specific thoughts up through S3E3:
I respect him for that, I really do. I think it's an issue of directing - none of the three (Garibaldi/Ivanova/Franklin) gave good performances this episode, and they all have given really believable performances at least once. I think. don't ask me for specifics

the other actors all gave good performances, but the other actors ALWAYS give good performances, they've all got huge presence to carry through any script/directing issues

I think in Franklin's case the poor directing just shines extra hard because he surely has to rely on those around him to cue changes in his performance

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 5, 2020

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Nipponophile posted:

It was a technical glitch. One of the FX guys was doodling on a still of Garibaldi's face while waiting on the scene to render, and he accidentally saved that frame instead of discarding it.

There were a lot of technical glitches when the show first aired; they were always rushing to get the effects rendered on time, and a lot of errors slipped through. Wrong effects, incomplete renders, matte paintings missing, and, of course, the teapot raiders in the first episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V90fc-iTIY4

Anonymouse Mook
Jul 12, 2006

Showing Vettel the way since 1979



The_Doctor posted:

S2ep19 - Divided Loyalties



the couple of scenes where it looks like Talia is mildly flirting with Garibaldi.


Real world context

Jerry Doyle and Andrea Thompson were married for a few years in the '90s. I think the scene were Talia remarked how Garibaldi was always there, may have been based on real events.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


TheAardvark posted:

Contains some specific thoughts up through S3E3:
I respect him for that, I really do. I think it's an issue of directing - none of the three (Garibaldi/Ivanova/Franklin) gave good performances this episode, and they all have given really believable performances at least once. I think. don't ask me for specifics

the other actors all gave good performances, but the other actors ALWAYS give good performances, they've all got huge presence to carry through any script/directing issues

I think in Franklin's case the poor directing just shines extra hard because he surely has to rely on those around him to cue changes in his performance


B5 took some heat at the time (and to some extent still does) from “bad acting,” which firstly is a dead giveaway of someone who hardly watched the show, but I think it’s largely related to the human characters and largely a matter of the direction they got. The alien actors had some freedom to map their own path—Jurasik coming up with the accent and kinda the hair, for example—and their performers were more confident and experienced. But it’s also much harder to play a human in sci-fi, because you might sort of be like humans today, but how much? What does being a Russian Jew in the future mean, exactly?

On most shows, the performers take possession of their characters, but that was harder here because of the serial story arc and hence the need to adhere to the script as written. Even late in S2, that madman down the hall with the office next to the electrical mains has some plan for your character that you can’t even guess, but every throw-away line might end up not being a throw-away. If the director guides or even just affirms your choices, great, but if you get no direction, or mixed signals, or bad direction, you’re likely to play things uncertainly.

JMS started adjusting characters to their performers over time, and by S3 having just one writer helped with consistency of depiction. Plus the show developed a cadre of good directors, ones distinctive enough you can probably guess them.

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.


Angry Salami posted:

There were a lot of technical glitches when the show first aired; they were always rushing to get the effects rendered on time, and a lot of errors slipped through. Wrong effects, incomplete renders, matte paintings missing, and, of course, the teapot raiders in the first episode:
Man, if my old tapes still work... and if I knew someone who knew how to transfer VHS to digital...

(my dad & I taped the whole show except one episode, including movies, off tv as it aired, it was a fantastic choice)

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Ayin posted:

Man, if my old tapes still work... and if I knew someone who knew how to transfer VHS to digital...

(my dad & I taped the whole show except one episode, including movies, off tv as it aired, it was a fantastic choice)

I got a decent Sony VHS in good shape off eBay and a digital recorder off amazon for a grand total of $60. The recorder even has an LCD so I don’t have to hook it up to a TV.

Most of our recordings aren’t first run though, my dad taped the reruns.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





Doctor Zero posted:

I got a decent Sony VHS in good shape off eBay and a digital recorder off amazon for a grand total of $60. The recorder even has an LCD so I don’t have to hook it up to a TV.

Most of our recordings aren’t first run though, my dad taped the reruns.
Got a link to the recorder from Amazon?

Ayin
Jan 6, 2010

Have a great day.


If anyone hasn't gotten the standard-def version of B5 from vudu, the whole series (tho not the movies) is on sale for $30 right now!

edit:

Midjack posted:

Got a link to the recorder from Amazon?
I'm interested too! I know nothing about this subject other than "it is possible" but I would love to transfer my old recordings

Ayin fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Aug 8, 2020

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007





Looks like vudu doesn't actually have the movies (other than the pilot). It's still considerably cheaper to buy that and get those from Amazon.

Zat
Jan 15, 2008


ultrafilter posted:

Looks like vudu doesn't actually have the movies (other than the pilot). It's still considerably cheaper to buy that and get those from Amazon.

And again Vudu has the superior 4:3 versions of all but a handful of episodes (only about 4 episodes + the pilot movie are 16:9). I don't think the 4:3 versions are available anywhere else legally, so that's a great deal.

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Blindeye
Sep 22, 2006

I can't believe I kissed you!


Ayin posted:

If anyone hasn't gotten the standard-def version of B5 from vudu, the whole series (tho not the movies) is on sale for $30 right now!

edit:

I'm interested too! I know nothing about this subject other than "it is possible" but I would love to transfer my old recordings

Of course I buy it for 60 4 days ago lol.

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