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Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

quote:

Something else I like is that despite having a big cast they only show the people necessary.

This wasn't something I really noticed until my most recent re-watch but I think it's huge. If a character is there it's because that character should be there for that plot. It's okay if they're not in an episode. They have other poo poo to do and it's ok for an episode to not shoehorn everyone into every thing. It feels far more natural and credible and means characters are rarely (if ever!) "out of character".

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Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E8 Wow, a pretty much purely "main story" episode. This show was way ahead of its time.

Great episode. I thought they'd string things along a lot more but no, 8 episodes in and we confirm Delenn's being part of the peace treaty/his lost time. And the show had the decency to have Sinclair realize it too.

I like how the show completely ignores plot points for episodes at a time, but still treats them as important enough that they can carry an entire episode when they reappear.


E: regarding the above post about the cast - I was thinking the same thing about this episode. I liked it a lot despite having few of what I consider my favorite things from the previous episodes.

Pierre McGuire
Oct 30, 2010


Pick posted:

This wasn't something I really noticed until my most recent re-watch but I think it's huge. If a character is there it's because that character should be there for that plot. It's okay if they're not in an episode. They have other poo poo to do and it's ok for an episode to not shoehorn everyone into every thing. It feels far more natural and credible and means characters are rarely (if ever!) "out of character".

the only thing I find weird about the economy of characters is that all of the races on Babylon 5 have ambassadors on the council except for the Earth Alliance, who use the commander/military governor of Babylon 5 to fill that role in addition to everything else. (not really a spoiler I guess?)

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E9
This episode is absolutely all over the place but there's so much good poo poo here.

First off the obvious: "Understanding is a three edged sword." The Kosh and Abbut scenes here were great. The Vorlons implying they are immortal.

Hell yeah our first assembly! Finally this politics tag feels right.

Also Lennier is cool and my friend and I will not allow ill to be spoken of him. There are so many characters on this show that are so damned good and so well acted. I think part of it goes back to the cast fluctuating in and out.

And I assumed the serum was some kind of poison, I like the "cost" twist a lot more.

Talia's thing at the end. He's a recorder? So he was recording her thought patterns and Kosh was.. what, using varying nonsense sentences until they triggered a terrible memory?

drat there was a lot going on in this episode.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

blind bookmarked thread


lol it literally gets better every single time I watch it, which I've admitedly lost track of but is approaching double digits

starting again on s1 when you've just finished s5 is an incredible power move, incidentally - you notice a lot more to like about s1 and obviously, all the stuff that was being foreshadowed as early as the pilot is even richer.

Goblin Craft
Feb 12, 2002



sebmojo posted:

starting again on s1 when you've just finished s5 is an incredible power move, incidentally - you notice a lot more to like about s1 and obviously, all the stuff that was being foreshadowed as early as the pilot is even richer.

its possible that's what you're referring to, but my wife had us do exactly that the first time she saw it

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TheAardvark posted:

S1E9
This episode is absolutely all over the place but there's so much good poo poo here.

First off the obvious: "Understanding is a three edged sword." The Kosh and Abbut scenes here were great. The Vorlons implying they are immortal.

Hell yeah our first assembly! Finally this politics tag feels right.

Also Lennier is cool and my friend and I will not allow ill to be spoken of him. There are so many characters on this show that are so damned good and so well acted. I think part of it goes back to the cast fluctuating in and out.

And I assumed the serum was some kind of poison, I like the "cost" twist a lot more.

Talia's thing at the end. He's a recorder? So he was recording her thought patterns and Kosh was.. what, using varying nonsense sentences until they triggered a terrible memory?

drat there was a lot going on in this episode.




Please, continue.

Sitting Here
Dec 31, 2007


BLO OD E M PR E SS

of

THUDNER-DOME


as someone who was recently shepherded through a first time watch, I am so excited for you OP

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


We mentioned this in the other thread, but stay out of that B5 thread until you've finished the series. You do NOT want to come across spoilers and ruin this experience for yourselves.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



TraderStav posted:

We mentioned this in the other thread, but stay out of that B5 thread until you've finished the series. You do NOT want to come across spoilers and ruin this experience for yourselves.

The B5 thread is one of the most pure and good threads on these dumb forums.

Come join us when youíre done.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

Also, traditionally the Babylon 5 thread has been incredibly careful about spoilers for new watchers, for a show that's like over 25 years old. We have blind watch is fairly often but it's much easier and better for everyone to have them consolidated so we can all enjoy them together

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

^Current Game^


2021 COMPLETED GAMES:
DS1, DS2, DS3, Sekiro,
TLG, Demons Souls,
TLOU, TLOUII,
Outer Wilds, Returnal,
Return of the Obra Dinn


Pick posted:

This wasn't something I really noticed until my most recent re-watch but I think it's huge. If a character is there it's because that character should be there for that plot. It's okay if they're not in an episode. They have other poo poo to do and it's ok for an episode to not shoehorn everyone into every thing. It feels far more natural and credible and means characters are rarely (if ever!) "out of character".

It suddenly occurred to me mid-episode 2 when I realised I had not seen G-Kar or Londo and even though I missed them, I appreciated that a big station would have a lot going on and not everybody magically needs to be involved in everything. I have not seen many shows do that.

Also I began using a pen and paper to note things down rather than trying to remember at the end and I think that so far Parliament of Dreams is my favourite for a number of reasons.

1-5 Parliament of Dreams

This opening was amazing and I could not help but crease at:
"This is Ambassador G'Kar's quarters. This is Ambassador G'Kar's table. This is Ambassador G'Kar's dinner. Which part of this progression escapes you?"

Like Londo I am not sure how I am supposed to feel about G-Kar and that is a great thing. All too often aliens races in fiction are good or bad with the outliers being the ones that we focus our tales upon but that is not the portrayal we get here.

Born to the Purple and this episode show that all our ambassadors are multi-layered, Londo, G-Kar and Delenn having quite large secrets they do not want others to know would normally signify that we cannot trust them but this is not how we feel because we have seen enough of them to know that they are not easily defined in such terms as good and bad.

I like that there are obviously large backstories informing the actions of people here and excited that I am going to experience it! For example I have not forgotten that one of the Babylon stations just vanished for no reason. I love stories that involve something huge of that nature and am hoping that it does get expanded upon in the future!

Having the setting be each culture's religious ceremonies was great for a multitude of reason, mostly because of how appropriate they feel to the characters we have seen. The Centauri ceremony looks jolly and raucous but I cannot help but feel there is also an underlying insecurity there which marries up with what I have seen so far of Londo.

Also he was just as funny as G-Kar in that whole scene and a joy. I am not sure yet who I would call my favourite between him and G-Kar but they are both front runners.

I had been reading the pronounciation of Lennier's voice all wrong! And his scene with Delenn opened up more questions! She is definitely the most intriguing especially, if I remember correctly from episode 1 (? please correct me), the Minbari just stopped fighting against the Humans during their big war.

Na-toth is ace. Seriously ace.

I really liked the big bug too. It could have been goofy but the set, the lighting and the way G-Kar act made it believable.

Finally that very last scene with Sinclair showing all of Earth's religions was beautiful. If that is not an inspiring and uplifting bit of TV then I do not know what is. I really needed that and I am willing to bet that the clothes of everyone not introduced was wearing was just as accurate as those we learned the names of. I get that feeling about this show; that it cares about details even if not everyone will pick them up.


I am going to try to watch another two today

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



Everyone is just biting their tongue so hard right now, it's great I don't believe you will be disappointed.

Eyud
Aug 5, 2006



sebmojo posted:

Everyone is just biting their tongue so hard right now, it's great I don't believe you will be disappointed.

SO HARD god I love these threads

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

quote:

I like that there are obviously large backstories informing the actions of people here and excited that I am going to experience it! For example I have not forgotten that one of the Babylon stations just vanished for no reason. I love stories that involve something huge of that nature and am hoping that it does get expanded upon in the future!

*tears hair out* m-maybe

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

^Current Game^


2021 COMPLETED GAMES:
DS1, DS2, DS3, Sekiro,
TLG, Demons Souls,
TLOU, TLOUII,
Outer Wilds, Returnal,
Return of the Obra Dinn


^^ Excited!

I think my own excitement is bolstered by your guys excitement!

head58 posted:

Youíre blowing through these at a fair clip but if youíre looking for some companion media I will not so humbly invite you to listen to my podcast ďThe Name of the Pod.Ē We do episode by episode but donít do synopses, more looking at the themes of the show and why it is one of the most important programs in shaping what genre (and non genre) tv is today. We watched and loved the show in the 90s but donít do spoilers, so youíre safe.

Weíre recording our penultimate episode tonight, looking at the Lost Tales dvd from 2008. Then a series wrap up in a couple weeks.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-name-of-the-pod-a-babylon-5-podcast/id1244239639

https://www.ilinxilinx.com/nameofthepod

While I am at work I am going to start listening to this iTunes does not have the first few so I am using the website - this will tide me over until I can actually watch a bit more!

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Pick posted:

*tears hair out* m-maybe

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

^Current Game^


2021 COMPLETED GAMES:
DS1, DS2, DS3, Sekiro,
TLG, Demons Souls,
TLOU, TLOUII,
Outer Wilds, Returnal,
Return of the Obra Dinn


Pick posted:

*tears hair out* m-maybe



VideoGames posted:

While I am at work I am going to start listening to this iTunes does not have the first few so I am using the website - this will tide me over until I can actually watch a bit more!



Ha, it is ok. I just heard on the podcast the guys say "When we get to the episode where we see Babylon 4..." so for the moment I am not listening to the podcast until I have finished the show! I will say I am quite pumped for it!

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

I would avoid podcasts and more reading until you finish the show, even episode by episode writing. You want to form your own opinions and thoughts on your first watch through. And sometimes those analyses will have spoilers, especially if it was written 26 years later.

Even the lurkers guide which IIRC is broken up episode by episode drops some hints.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

The Lurker's Guide is great for subsequent watches. It's full of incredibly refined speculation and, even without actually using info from later episodes, will spoil you on things if you read it during a first watch.

It also has comments J. Michael Straczynski made online at the time, and I forget if it arranges those by when he said them or by what episode he said them about. (for instance, if during S4 he made some comment about an S2 episode that referenced things which happened in S3, is that on the page for the S2 episode? I don't remember.)

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


TraderStav posted:

We mentioned this in the other thread, but stay out of that B5 thread until you've finished the series. You do NOT want to come across spoilers and ruin this experience for yourselves.

So I first got into B5 because a friend of mine was raving about it when it was being shown on TV and I decided to check it out. The first episode I saw was The Hour of the Wolf, s4e01. I think coming into it so late is part of the reason I like living vicariously through people watching from the start because it must be just incredible.

MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 3, 2020

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


MrL_JaKiri posted:

I, too, am a big fan of Laurel Takashima

(For newbies: she's the second in command from the pilot who was written out and never appears again)

I felt like she didnít gel very well, and it sounds like Tomita was really struggling with the dialogue in places. She might have worked it out had she chosen to stick with it, but that was her decision to make.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008



Ultra Carp

This is a seriously good thread.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


The_Doctor posted:

I felt like she didnít gel very well, and it sounds like Tomita was really struggling with the dialogue in places. She might have worked it out had she chosen to stick with it, but that was her decision to make.

Partially it depends on what version you watched, too. Originally she had very "military" line reads that the network didn't like from a female character and demanded that she be softened. The pilot as broadcast has redubbed all her dialogue with these softer reads, the remastered version has the originals back.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



MrL_JaKiri posted:

Partially it depends on what version you watched, too. Originally she had very "military" line reads that the network didn't like from a female character and demanded that she be softened. The pilot as broadcast has redubbed all her dialogue with these softer reads, the remastered version has the originals back.

i honestly thought her and dr whatsit were terrible, and i'm very glad they didn't stay into the full series, since ivanova and franklin are both fairly strong. i don't know which redubbing of takashima I watched, though.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


I liked Dr Kyle, heís got a lot of gravitas that Franklin doesnít have so far. Franklin reminds me more of DS9ís Bashir.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



I think I came in when it first aired, around one of the more pivotal eps of s4, and the space battles alone were like nothing I'd ever seen on tv at the time. I watched the whole series thanks to a friend who'd bought the lot (on VHS lol), then watched it all again recently. It hella stands up, though there are ebbs and flows.

Goblin Craft
Feb 12, 2002



Originally I must have caught the pilot, because I remember G'Kar's proposition to Lyta as my first experience with the show, and then season 1 off and on, but by season 2 it was something I made sure I was there to watch every episode.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


I watched The Gathering years after finishing the series, and I never felt like I had missed something. Granted, I didn't pay too much attention to it at that time, because I don't think it's that engaging. But there was never a moment of "ah, so that is why x happened" or something like that. I think the first season properly sets up the show without needing the pilot.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



Yes, it's a good bonus after you've watched the rest.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


I'm not sure if I watched the dubbed-lines version of The Gathering or not, but one of her lines was read as "I'll get you a fruit baskets", to the point even the subtitles said it, and that was pretty weird.

E: Which reminds me, the subtitles for this on Amazon are pretty terrible, which sucks because my hearing is bad so I have trouble with dialogue occasionally.

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jun 3, 2020

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



The_Doctor posted:

I liked Dr Kyle, heís got a lot of gravitas that Franklin doesnít have so far. Franklin reminds me more of DS9ís Bashir.

Richard Biggs wasn't capable of carrying much gravitas--he basically alternates between normal cadence and yelling, with not much in-between--but it's also worth noting that he was almost completely deaf, and there are more than a few occasions where you can see him mouthing another actor's lines in order to know when to start talking.

Vavrek posted:

The Lurker's Guide is great for subsequent watches. It's full of incredibly refined speculation and, even without actually using info from later episodes, will spoil you on things if you read it during a first watch.

It also has comments J. Michael Straczynski made online at the time, and I forget if it arranges those by when he said them or by what episode he said them about. (for instance, if during S4 he made some comment about an S2 episode that referenced things which happened in S3, is that on the page for the S2 episode? I don't remember.)

Yeah, I would not read the Lurker's Guide on a first watch. Even the plot point analyses have a lot of "wink wink, we know more than you" comments in them, and Straczynski's Usenet postings are spoiler-laden with "Oh, yeah, this comes up later in a big way."

Timby fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jun 3, 2020

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



Jms was a hilarious all fronts forums warrior, it's funny reading only his side of arguments

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


sebmojo posted:

Jms was a hilarious all fronts forums warrior, it's funny reading only his side of arguments

i am legitimately excited about finishing the series to be able to read 1990s usenet flamewars with the creator

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



TheAardvark posted:

i am legitimately excited about finishing the series to be able to read 1990s usenet flamewars with the creator

Oh, he hasn't gotten any better. A few years back he got into a petty slapfight with the current writers of the Spider-Man comic who had succeeded him, and he posted a graph of sales to make his point.

Mark Waid came back and smacked him around:

quote:

Dick move, Joe. Flat out, a dick move, and you know it. Either your point was to show people how awesome you were, or to show people how things have deteriorated since your absence. There's no other way to interpret your post. None. Are you really that hard up for approbation and fan love that you can't rise above that sort of poo poo? I understand Wacker's frustration. Maybe he overreacted a bit, in the way good friends DO react when they perceive their friends and employees being attacked by a bitter man with a bottomless ego, but you made the first move, and it was a dick move. And if anyone doubted you were doing it for anything other than informational purposes, adding "Just sayin'" was the snarktacular icing on the cake. No one says "Just sayin'" unless they're doing exactly the opposite of "Just sayin'
Ö
Half an hour later, still fuming at JMS's lovely passive-aggressiveness. I should probably go walk it off. Maybe with a long walk. A long, dull, pointless, boring walk. Across America.
Ö
That I won't finish.

(The last part being a reference to Superman: Grounded, a yearlong arc in which Superman takes a walk across America to re-connect with the people he has sworn to protect. Straczynski left halfway through the series, leaving everyone else holding the bag.)

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Honestly, pretty much everything JMS did after Babylon 5 sucked.

But B5 is great.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


1x06 - MIND WAR

"No-one here is entirely what they appear."


Heh, they're using the same cups as DS9.

Ooh, Koenig as Bester strikes a chilling presence from the moment he walks in. Sam Browne belts really are a shorthand for fascist, huh? The gestapo vibe is laid on very, very thickly here. Like, I get it, you're EEEEEEEVIL.

MIND QUAKE.

Catherine's conversations with G'kar are intriguing. It's interesting to see him be sincere, and talking about the mysteries out in the universe is a good bit.

And mirroring it, Ironheart Dr Manhattans out into the universe to become one of those mysteries.

head58
Apr 1, 2013



MonsieurChoc posted:

Honestly, pretty much everything JMS did after Babylon 5 sucked.

But B5 is great.

Sense8 is a glorious mess.

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

The_Doctor posted:

1x06 - MIND WAR

"No-one here is entirely what they appear."


Heh, they're using the same cups as DS9.

Ooh, Koenig as Bester strikes a chilling presence from the moment he walks in. Sam Browne belts really are a shorthand for fascist, huh? The gestapo vibe is laid on very, very thickly here. Like, I get it, you're EEEEEEEVIL.

MIND QUAKE.

Catherine's conversations with G'kar are intriguing. It's interesting to see him be sincere, and talking about the mysteries out in the universe is a good bit.

And mirroring it, Ironheart Dr Manhattans out into the universe to become one of those mysteries.


I love MIND WAR

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWsmlS4Tt8

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