Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Winifred Madgers
Feb 12, 2002

sebmojo posted:

I love penn and teller being incomprehensibly unfunny but everyone cracking up

It's a great comment on at least some kinds of humor needing cultural context/zeitgeist. Delenn's reaction to their whispered joke in Minbari even more so. Plus it's funny in its own right in a meta sort of way.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:

Powered Descent posted:

Taking a brief B5 break since my watching partner is out of town again, but I decided to go back and look up one of my guesses:

Quoth IMDB:

Totally called it. He just has that... theater presence.

Pretty much everyone on B5 has theater experience, and it heavily informs the show.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008
Day of the Dead spoilers:
Neil Gaiman wrote this episode. I don’t think he requested Penn and Teller, but he appears to like them and they were fans of the show. Given that JMS clearly establishes them as “comedy duo that YOU don’t think is funny but everyone else seems to love,” it strikes me as excellent casting. And Gaiman mostly maintains that conceit, just with a different character as the “I don’t get it,” by having their best comedy bit be Minbari comedy and thus be incomprehensible to us.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


The entire show in general is almost more of a stage play than it is a TV show.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





CainFortea posted:

The entire show in general is almost more of a stage play than it is a TV show.

Yes, and it's one of my favorite things about the show.

Most of the bombastic stage actors are alien (literal or in the sense of "just plain weird"), and it helps make them feel alien. Some of that is necessity: G'Kar's face is under ten pounds of makeup, so he has to over-emote just to emote at all. Some of it helps them feel like they're from another culture entirely.

Plus it gives us great scenes like almost any time G'Kar is in an elevator.

What I'm saying is G'Kar rules.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm

Hey you want to put some spoiler tags on that in this thread?

discoukulele posted:

s05e08 – Day of the Dead
  • Lochley gets visited by Zoe. I’m not clear if she was a former friend or lover.


Former lover, according to Gaiman.

Polaron fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Feb 3, 2022

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Polaron posted:

Former lover, according to Gaiman.

Huh, for some reason I always thought it was explicit she was her younger sister.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Polaron posted:

Hey you want to put some spoiler tags on that in this thread?

Former lover, according to Gaiman.

On reflection, I do !

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Grand Fromage posted:

Huh, for some reason I always thought it was explicit she was her younger sister.
I assumed she was a roommate/girlfriend because when Lochley is talking to her about the aftermath, she says something like “my dad came with a bunch of his marine friends to make sure I was OK”.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

Sic Transit Vir: This show murders subtext with a rusty spoon. :stonk:

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

ultrafilter posted:

Pretty much everyone on B5 has theater experience, and it heavily informs the show.

Michael O'Hare played Colonel Jessup in the Broadway production of A Few Good Men (I believe he replaced Stephen Lang, who wanted to do more movie work).

I wish I could have seen that. He could bring ridiculous levels of intensity and gravitas to his roles, not just in B5 but even in smaller guest spots on shows like Law & Order and LA Law. I shudder to think of him staring down Lieutenant Kaffee and putting him in his place.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Timby posted:

Michael O'Hare played Colonel Jessup in the Broadway production of A Few Good Men (I believe he replaced Stephen Lang, who wanted to do more movie work).

I wish I could have seen that. He could bring ridiculous levels of intensity and gravitas to his roles, not just in B5 but even in smaller guest spots on shows like Law & Order and LA Law. I shudder to think of him staring down Lieutenant Kaffee and putting him in his place.
I really liked O'Hare as Sinclair and wished we could have seen more of him. I don't think there are many actors who could have made And the Sky Full of Stars work as well as he did. It could have easily gone over the top and been campy but he made it work.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Mr. Apollo posted:

I really liked O'Hare as Sinclair and wished we could have seen more of him. I don't think there are many actors who could have made And the Sky Full of Stars work as well as he did. It could have easily gone over the top and been campy but he made it work.

unlike sheridan it's also possible to imagine him as having hosed at some point in his life

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

sebmojo posted:

unlike sheridan it's also possible to imagine him as having hosed at some point in his life

Not if he sleeps on Carnellian bedsheets, he won't.

Whybird
Aug 2, 2009

Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar


Nap Ghost
O'Hare is brilliant, but every time he monologues I feel like he's just barely holding back from accidentally slipping into a Frank Drebbin monologue instead.

Beefeater1980
Sep 12, 2008

My God, it's full of Horatios!






sebmojo posted:

unlike sheridan it's also possible to imagine him as having hosed at some point in his life

Sheridan *definitely* is Mr vanilla, but doesn’t strike me as the celibate type even before B5 canonically shows him doing the deed. Just…extremely middle of the road and normal.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Feb 7, 2022

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Guys, can we please remember which thread we're in?

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Jedit posted:

Guys, can we please remember which thread we're in?

Spoiler: Sheridan gets laid.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
s05e10 – A Tragedy of Telepaths
  • The hunger strike is continuing
  • and the new government is crumbling
  • They know that some telepaths escaped Brown Sector and haven't told anyone
  • oh god and Lochley's reaching out to Bester for help
  • Obviously this is all going to end horribly since we know the Telepath War is coming at some point
  • oh poo poo, it's Na'Toth!
  • lmao that poor welder


s05e11 – Phoenix Rising
  • it's really bothering me how crooked Bester's Psi Corps badge is in every scene so far
  • Byron is Bester's protege
  • oh gently caress, just full-on group suicide, then
  • Garibalid's back on the sauce


s05e12 – The Ragged Edge
  • There might've been a survivor from one of the attacks who can be a witness, but they were smuggling
  • lmao G'Kar's book leaked and it's bigger than the (Narn) Bible
  • Confirmation that it's not the Drazi and there's probably a mole. It's probably the Centauri.
  • lol at the “put your face in the book” scene
  • Franklin's leaving for Earth


s05e13 – The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
  • “Not everything is about Babylon 5”
  • I'm glad we're finally getting to see some of the inner workings of Psi Corps
  • gently caress yes more Psi Corps propaganda. I would have loved a Psi Corps series.
  • This intern is thirsty
  • The telepath murderer just popped someone's head.
  • apparently he has multiple personalities
  • this intern is creepy af

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

I just watched Lost Tales:

The anthology idea of “untold stories” is interesting but it really suffered from a low production budget. The bit about Stephen and G’Kar “traveling beyond the rim” was a nice touch. Setting it 10 years after the founding of the ISA was a good idea since everyone had aged 10 years. It would have been nice to see more episodes but JMS was right about not ruining B5’s legacy with sub-par production.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
As I start heading toward the end of Season 5, I'm thinking about doing JMS' preferred viewing order going forward - Season 5 up to through the penultimate episode, then River of Souls, Legend of the Rangers, Call to Order, Crusade, Lost Tales, and then the Season 5 finale. Would that be the best way to do it?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.
:fart:

If you're going to watch all that stuff it's probably the best way, but there's nothing essential in any of those.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

ultrafilter posted:

If you're going to watch all that stuff it's probably the best way, but there's nothing essential in any of those.

Yeah, I want to watch all of the movies for sure. I'm a little eh on Crusade, but I don't really know anything about it. 13 episodes isn't that big of a commitment, though.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

discoukulele posted:

As I start heading toward the end of Season 5, I'm thinking about doing JMS' preferred viewing order going forward - Season 5 up to through the penultimate episode, then River of Souls, Legend of the Rangers, Call to Order, Crusade, Lost Tales, and then the Season 5 finale. Would that be the best way to do it?

I would suggest the final B5 episode after either River of Souls or Call to Arms. It really has no reference to the other work and works much better as the bookend to B5 itself than as the bookend to all the spin-off episodes.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
s05e14 – Meditations on the Abyss
  • Hell yeah, Lennier! He's going to be keeping an eye on the Centauri.
  • aw yay, Vir's going to be Londo's replacement as Ambassador
  • Oh god this eye scene with G'Kar
  • Lennier and his Ranger partner have to enter a meditative state to conserve their oxygen. Maybe they'll have... meditations on the abyss?
  • lmao Vir just passed his Intimidate check
  • Ranger training seems just about as manipulative as Psi Corps training tbqh


s05e15- Darkness Ascending
  • Oh poo poo, Lyta's possibly doing some Vorlon dream manipulation or something on Garibaldi
  • lmao at Sheridan's sneaky side-step off screen during Delenn's conversation with Lennier
  • and now Lyta's trying the diplomatic route for getting a homeworld
  • oh poo poo, Lennier's goin rogue
  • oh poo poo, Lyta might give the Narns telepathy
  • there's a lot of reminiscing about previous seasons in this episode

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

discoukulele posted:

As I start heading toward the end of Season 5, I'm thinking about doing JMS' preferred viewing order going forward - Season 5 up to through the penultimate episode, then River of Souls, Legend of the Rangers, Call to Order, Crusade, Lost Tales, and then the Season 5 finale. Would that be the best way to do it?
What about Thirdspace? It's a standalone movie but there is a one line reference/joke about it in S05E18. Thirdspace was released after S05E17.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

Mr. Apollo posted:

What about Thirdspace? It's a standalone movie but there is a one line reference/joke about it in S05E18. Thirdspace was released after S05E17.

I watched Thirdspace and In The Beginning in between seasons 4 and 5. I really liked both of them!

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

discoukulele posted:

As I start heading toward the end of Season 5, I'm thinking about doing JMS' preferred viewing order going forward - Season 5 up to through the penultimate episode, then River of Souls, Legend of the Rangers, Call to Order, Crusade, Lost Tales, and then the Season 5 finale. Would that be the best way to do it?

River of souls yes, call to arms, eh can go either way, hard no on lost tales/legend/the half season of Crusade we got.

Sure watch them all but watching them before the finale is just trying your patience for no good reason because the only reason to do so is that the finale is very much an epilogue set well after the events of all of those shows.

Zat
Jan 15, 2008

Chevy Slyme posted:

River of souls yes, call to arms, eh can go either way, hard no on lost tales/legend/the half season of Crusade we got.

Sure watch them all but watching them before the finale is just trying your patience for no good reason because the only reason to do so is that the finale is very much an epilogue set well after the events of all of those shows.

I agree and personally would only watch River of Souls (if even that) before the series finale.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

It should also be noted that discoukelele is the first blind Watcher to reach the end of the series, and everyone from the regular thread wants to see their response. We're a little bit impatient.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

sebmojo posted:

unlike sheridan it's also possible to imagine him as having hosed at some point in his life

I have a pretty deep dislike of Bruce Boxleitner in the first place; mostly, he just feels and sounds like a poor man's Michael Douglas (just as Jerry Doyle is the dollar store version of Bruce Willis).

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Timby posted:

I have a pretty deep dislike of Bruce Boxleitner in the first place; mostly, he just feels and sounds like a poor man's Michael Douglas (just as Jerry Doyle is the dollar store version of Bruce Willis).

yep, he gives competent dramatic hero, but I weep a little for what might have been.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007

Bruce is an interesting casting call, but when you think about the character of Sheridan, who he is when he's introduced, it's pretty spot on. A fresh faced empty suit with some military cred, expected to tow the company line while smiling and glad handing his way through it. They needed a "leading man" type person, all face no personality, so Earthforce hired Sheridan/JMS cast Bruce.
Maybe that's a bit harsh on Bruce's acting chops, but the writing really complements who he is, like yeah he is that guy. And here's what that guy can do when push comes to shove. He can have all these heroic qualities, he isn't just someone we hired because he's got pretty hair and can run a press conference.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie

Jedit posted:

It should also be noted that discoukelele is the first blind Watcher to reach the end of the series, and everyone from the regular thread wants to see their response. We're a little bit impatient.

:aaa:

I think I'm going to go ahead and skip Crusade for now, so I think there's a good chance that I'll be finishing up by next weekend!

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

discoukulele posted:

:aaa:

I think I'm going to go ahead and skip Crusade for now, so I think there's a good chance that I'll be finishing up by next weekend!

:v:

Don't feel pressured. The most important thing is that you enjoy it.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
Oh no, I'm not feeling any pressure at all. I feel like Season 5 is really starting to take off, so I'm anxious to see where things go!

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


discoukulele posted:

Oh no, I'm not feeling any pressure at all. I feel like Season 5 is really starting to take off, so I'm anxious to see where things go!

Once Byron goes you've hit the inflection point where it switches from the stuff he had to scramble and come up with at the last minute when they got picked up and the stuff that was already planned to be in season 5. It improves immensely.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
s05e16 – And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
  • Ah poo poo here we go
  • The Alliance gives Centauri a relatively light punishment of being blockaded until they apologize, Centauri responds by withdrawing from the Alliance and threatening to attack if the blockade is enforced
  • Things are gonna be kinda lovely for Vir now that he's left behind, I'm assuming
  • “Londo would never approve of attacks on civilian targets” - uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • G'Kar leaves behind a new version of his book that revises the beginning, which kinda parallels Londo's apparent revision of the facts in In The Beginning
  • First shots fired, and the Alliance immediately starts to crumble internally
  • G'kar and Londo get imprisoned together


s05e17 – Movements of Fire and Shadow
  • Widespread Centauri hate crimes break out
  • Now the White Stars are officially ivolved and B5 is no longer neutral
  • Earth and Minbar are going to make a White Star Destroyer
  • lots of missing Centauri bodies in Drazi space
  • Londo gets abducted and implanted with something (the paraside, I'm assuming?)
  • The Narn and Drazi decide to say “gently caress it” and head toward Centauri Prime themselves
  • All of the Centauri ships are unmanned and being controlled remotely with Shadow tech to set up the Centauri
  • The Regent was told to send away all of their ships and turn off the planetary defense systems



s05e18 –The Fall of Centauri Prime
  • The Drakh, former servants of the Shadows, are revealed as behind behind everything happening on Centauri Prime. All of this is payback for Londo destroying the island with Shadow ships. They want a homeworld and now the Centauri will be dependent on them to rebuild. They placed fusion bombs all over the planet.
  • The parasite things are called Keepers
  • Londo and G'Kar say goodbye* and G'Kar finally forgives him. Shut up, I'm not crying, you're crying.
  • The moment when Lennier and Delenn think they're about to get blown up is like -

  • Centauri Prime is going full isolationist and Londo has to say his final goodbyes to everyone from B5
  • and of course we end on the tragic irony that Londo finally gets to be Emperor over the ashes and completely isolated from everyone he ever cared about


Anyways, drat. What a spectacular run of episodes. It really did get so much better after Byron blew up. I'm really curious to see what's in store for the last few episodes, especially because Londo ascending to Emperor and his eventual strangulation are the only things that I've been expecting.

discoukulele
Jan 16, 2010

Yes Sir, I Can Boogie
s05e19 -The Wheel of Fire
  • lmao I love the loving G'Kar statues that his followers have
  • oof the empathetic embarassment is off the charts for this showing-up-drunk scene
  • “I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed” - oooooof
  • I love the parallel with G'Kar and Londo both being unwilling leaders in the end
  • oh poo poo – there's alleged Telepath terrorism and the money trail might be leading back to Lyta's fund
  • I love this scene with Lochley and Garibaldi :*) and I love that it comes full circle with the woman who visited her on the Day of the Dead
  • oh gently caress I love the way that Lyta telepathically flexes in this arrest scene. And also, drat, it's true. I kinda thought she might be getting set up or something.
  • Aaaaaahh!! Delenn's pregnant! (which we've known was going to happen from a few seasons ago)
  • aaaahhaaha I cackled when Lyta blew up the security camera in her cell
  • So Garibaldi's going to his Lise's corporate influence and money to get Lyta's terrorism charges dropped, and G'Kar's going to take her as a traveling companion
  • Oh poo poo, so Garibaldi's actually going to help Lyta launder the Telepath fund and set up some kind of anti-Psi Corps force
  • oh gently caress Lyta's basically a telepathic doomsday weapon. I'm curious if that's what Talia's gift was, too.
  • anyways, y'all know that the Psi Corp / Telepath stuff is one of my favorite threads of this whole series so I'm 100% here for this. I also like how it elevates the whole Byron plot into something that is really going to matter.



s05e20 – Objects in Motion
  • Tessa's a government official now. Someone's going to try to assassinate Garibaldi and Lise to keep them from learning about some of their corporation's projects.
  • I like Lyta so much more as a villain. She's got a touch of Cersei energy
  • lmao I always love it in shows like this when someone dies from a single pocketknife wound
  • and in the end, Lise got shot by a spurned G'kar stan instead of the actual assassin
  • The entire Edgars Industries board was behind the assassination attempt
  • oh gently caress, Garibaldi's pushing for a rushed wedding because he needs to secure access to Lise's wealth in the event of another attempt, isn't?
  • hell yeah, Tessa's the new head of Intelligence
  • Garibaldi pulls off a board room coup
  • drat, everyone's leaving :(


s05e21 – Objects at Rest
  • I hope we get some more teasers about what's beyond the rim
  • G'Kar's last message is for Ta'Lon, telling him that he wants him to be the new leader of the Narns
  • Since everyone's choosing their replacements, I'm curious if these people end up being the cast of Crusade
  • and Sheridan and Delenn get their big exit from the station :*)
  • but like, we have to see more of nuclear Lyta, right?
  • holy gently caress, Lennier
  • lmao is Sheridan considering the “I have a cold” excuse an intentional throw back to President Clark?
  • Londo!
  • Poor Londo, he's clearly trying to get loaded so that he can put his Keeper to sleep and talk freely.
  • oh hey, he brought an urn for their baby
  • oh gently caress the urn has a Keeper
  • man, it feels like there's so much ground to cover with one episode left (Lyta, Londo's ultimate demise, the Keeper in the urn)


I'm honestly pretty sad that this journey is almost over. I've really enjoyed this series a lot; it ticks a lot of boxes for me, and I love an intricate narrative where things were clearly planned from the beginning. This weekend and into next week I'm planning to do a few double features to wrap up the series. Here's what I'm thinking -

River of Souls
Legend of the Rangers

Call to Arms
Lost Tales

Sleeping in Light
The Destruction of Falling Stars (rewatch)

I may end up circling back around to Crusade at some point. After all of this, I'm planning to start watching DS9 for the first time. It's been on my list for awhile and I've been itching to get it going. I have a feeling B5 is ultimately going to be the better one by far, but I'm really curious about it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


DS9 is also very good, just different. If you were forcing me to rank 90s SF shows I'd put it second after B5. Also it has Garak.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply