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Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




TraderStav posted:

My mistake, I didn't look at that when I pulled it off of the lurkers guide. I'm assuming that's the same airing order from 93 though?

The one you posted matches Amazon's order, at least.

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Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

It's also the order they're in on the DVDs.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




Also, as much as I wanted to let them catch up, I am pretty hooked on this show and I don't think I'm going to be able to hold out knowing I have over a hundred episodes left to watch.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1E8 - And the Sky Full of Stars

“A virtual reality cybernet!”


Sinclair, the only man who goes to sleep in his uniform trousers complete with belt. (I appreciate it’s not real, but it’s clearly real enough he doesn’t question it.)

The interrogator looked really familiar, and I initially thought it was because he looks like Julian Glover who played a 4th Doctor villain, Scaroth. Turns out it’s Christopher Neame, who played another 4th Doctor villain, Skagra.



Lol, this newspaper. “Did Psi-Corps violate its charter by endorsing vice-president?” From what we know, it sounds like the Psi-corps probably chose the president, the VP, the entire cabinet, and run them all as puppets anyway.



Sinclair remembers (some bits)! I feel like Delenn being on the ship/on the Grey Council isn’t the huge revelation the writers think it is, considering they’ve been repeatedly saying it over and over up til now. And the Minbari are keeping a secret about what happened there. Well... yeah. That’s where we were when the episode started, too. But now a blind Minbari dude appeared to reiterate that fact!

Elder Postsman
Aug 30, 2000


i used hot bot to search for "teens"



The_Doctor posted:

S1E8 - And the Sky Full of Stars

“A virtual reality cybernet!”

I just noticed that the newspaper uses the same font as the TNG credits.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


You’re talented at watching TV, you sure you are a goon?

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Elder Postsman posted:

I just noticed that the newspaper uses the same font as the TNG credits.

I like how it references past episodes - the Raghesh 3 situation from 'Midnight on the Firing Line' and the Home Guard from 'The War Prayer'

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Seeing newspapers in the far future is very :3:

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003

"Eels."


2021 COMPLETED GAMES:
DS1, DS2, DS3, Sekiro,
TLG, NuDeS, TLOU/LB, TLOUII, Outer Wilds, Returnal, Obra Dinn, FFVIIr+Int, Witness, It Takes Two, Deathloop, Alien Isolation, Until Dawn, REVIII, FFVII, DMC5, Edith Finch


TheAardvark posted:

Also, as much as I wanted to let them catch up, I am pretty hooked on this show and I don't think I'm going to be able to hold out knowing I have over a hundred episodes left to watch.

Please continue. This is your thread and I am just tagging along! You sipping ahead will help me catch up too!

Agronox
Feb 4, 2005


sebmojo posted:

Seeing newspapers in the far future is very :3:

It's always funny when the sci-fi guys miss something like that. One of my favorites, speaking of Bester, is how in one of his novels, written in the 50s, the computers of the far future are still churning through punch cards.

Royal Updog
Sep 26, 2019

Do you ever wonder if there are other planets out there
(source)

Agronox posted:

It's always funny when the sci-fi guys miss something like that. One of my favorites, speaking of Bester, is how in one of his novels, written in the 50s, the computers of the far future are still churning through punch cards.

I always attribute stuff like that to the computers going sentient and getting into mischief & so they have to dial everything back again

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


The_Doctor posted:

S1E8 - And the Sky Full of Stars




Never noticed this, but lol at politicians in 200 years still promising to balance the budget "later".

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


The_Doctor posted:

S1E8 - And the Sky Full of Stars







Kind of interesting that the paper refers to San Diego being part of the "American States," rather than the "United States."

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Sanguinia posted:

Kind of interesting that the paper refers to San Diego being part of the "American States," rather than the "United States."

That’s the part about San Diego that caught your eye??

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


TraderStav posted:

That’s the part about San Diego that caught your eye??

I already knew San Diego was nuked in the b5 universe, I've watched the show before. That detail I have not

Elder Postsman
Aug 30, 2000


i used hot bot to search for "teens"



TraderStav posted:

You’re talented at watching TV, you sure you are a goon?

I'm very good and smart

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Alright, one more before bed, let’s go Deathwalker!

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Elder Postsman posted:

I'm very good and smart

Lol, I should have quoted. That was for the doctor

EmptyVessel
Oct 30, 2012


Sanguinia posted:

I already knew San Diego was nuked in the b5 universe, I've watched the show before. That detail I have not

newspaper image chat
San Diego was nuked by the American States according to what's there. :eyepop: First act of nuclear terrorism. Still learning things about this show..

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1E09 - Deathwalker! <starts punching>

“A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles.”

Ooh, Koshenanigans! I love his encounter suit, and am pondering the practicalities of doing it as cosplay. :3: I like the notion that Kosh is a party animal outside of being mysterious. The brain reveal at the end of the conference was remarkably icky and right up my body horror alley. The only thing that didn’t jibe well was Talia’s conversation with Sinclair and Garibaldi. She tells them that Kosh basically prodded her mind to recall the most fearful experience of her life and the guys are just ‘lol that wacky vorlon’.

Man, Na’Toth just starts wailing on that woman. Starts punching, stops, grabs a tool and carries on harder. Jha’dur’s costume is very samurai, but looks good.

So Earth (and others) fought the Dilgar (and others) 30 years ago and the Minbari 10 years ago. Any more wars I’ve missed? I liked the deliberations of how the past casts long shadows on the politics of today, alliances, enemies, genocide, and trying to stop history repeating. And then it is reduced to virtually a playground argument as an adult steps in and just clears the board in one stroke, citing the much bigger picture at hand.

Garibaldi’s tiny strip of hair bothers me greatly.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


The_Doctor posted:

S1E09 - Deathwalker! <starts punching>

“A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles.”

Ooh, Koshenanigans! I love his encounter suit, and am pondering the practicalities of doing it as cosplay. :3: I like the notion that Kosh is a party animal outside of being mysterious. The brain reveal at the end of the conference was remarkably icky and right up my body horror alley. The only thing that didn’t jibe well was Talia’s conversation with Sinclair and Garibaldi. She tells them that Kosh basically prodded her mind to recall the most fearful experience of her life and the guys are just ‘lol that wacky vorlon’.

Man, Na’Toth just starts wailing on that woman. Starts punching, stops, grabs a tool and carries on harder. Jha’dur’s costume is very samurai, but looks good.

So Earth (and others) fought the Dilgar (and others) 30 years ago and the Minbari 10 years ago. Any more wars I’ve missed? I liked the deliberations of how the past casts long shadows on the politics of today, alliances, enemies, genocide, and trying to stop history repeating. And then it is reduced to virtually a playground argument as an adult steps in and just clears the board in one stroke, citing the much bigger picture at hand.

Garibaldi’s tiny strip of hair bothers me greatly.


That scene with Na'toth is one of my favorites in the whole series.

Also, regarding the hair, yeah.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


The_Doctor posted:

S1E09 - Deathwalker! <starts punching>

“A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles.”

Ooh, Koshenanigans! I love his encounter suit, and am pondering the practicalities of doing it as cosplay. :3: I like the notion that Kosh is a party animal outside of being mysterious. The brain reveal at the end of the conference was remarkably icky and right up my body horror alley. The only thing that didn’t jibe well was Talia’s conversation with Sinclair and Garibaldi. She tells them that Kosh basically prodded her mind to recall the most fearful experience of her life and the guys are just ‘lol that wacky vorlon’.

Man, Na’Toth just starts wailing on that woman. Starts punching, stops, grabs a tool and carries on harder. Jha’dur’s costume is very samurai, but looks good.

So Earth (and others) fought the Dilgar (and others) 30 years ago and the Minbari 10 years ago. Any more wars I’ve missed? I liked the deliberations of how the past casts long shadows on the politics of today, alliances, enemies, genocide, and trying to stop history repeating. And then it is reduced to virtually a playground argument as an adult steps in and just clears the board in one stroke, citing the much bigger picture at hand.

Garibaldi’s tiny strip of hair bothers me greatly.


We need more Na'Toth in the real world.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


The_Doctor posted:

S1E09 - Deathwalker! <starts punching>

“A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles.”

Ooh, Koshenanigans! I love his encounter suit, and am pondering the practicalities of doing it as cosplay. :3:


(Production-related tidbit, no story spoilers at all): The costume was apparently a nightmare to wear, to the extent that once things wrapped up the production team and actor reportedly took it outside and dragged it behind a truck.

Granted, modern technology might've come far enough that it would no longer be an ordeal.

Aardvark!
May 17, 1993




The_Doctor posted:

S1E09 - Deathwalker! <starts punching>

“A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles.”


Man, Na’Toth just starts wailing on that woman. Starts punching, stops, grabs a tool and carries on harder. Jha’dur’s costume is very samurai, but looks good.


I loved this too. The show didn't soften it at all either. That was a straight up murder attempt. And it gave a huge amount of character to someone that had mostly been pretty minor.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Plex threw a small fit while watching so it hilariously jumped straight from the League ambassador saying ‘we do not put much faith in B5’s diplomacy’ to 5 mins later where she’s sitting there saying ‘it is fair... and wise.’ So I had to unglitch it all to find out this magical solution. :argh:

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I just couldn't look at your old avatar anymore
Fucking nauseating!


If there's one thing this show excelled at it was casting on a budget. Typical 90s sci-fi you have a low bar for guest/bit actors then suddenly David Warner turns up and loving delivers.

JMS had to make money stretch and would reach out to people not getting a lot of work for reasons beyond their control or struggling in general and they did a stellar job on a shoestring budget.

FYI in case you aren't aware, the actor playing Dr. Franklin was like 90% deaf, and memorized entire scenes he was in so he could read the other actors lips and know when to say his lines.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Koenig was originally going to be cast as one of the Knights in “And the Sky Full of Stars” but was unable to do the show after suffering a mild heart attack. He was given the Bester part to make up for it.

Another interesting bit of trivia: for the most part, the performers playing human leads were not especially “method” and would break character after every take. Conversely, Andreas Katsulas would come in for his G’kar makeup and then stay in it all day, leading visitors to the odd experience of seeing a Narn on a smoke break.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Narsham posted:

Another interesting bit of trivia: for the most part, the performers playing human leads were not especially “method” and would break character after every take. Conversely, Andreas Katsulas would come in for his G’kar makeup and then stay in it all day, leading visitors to the odd experience of seeing a Narn on a smoke break.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


sebmojo posted:

Seeing newspapers in the far future is very :3:

There's a scene later in the series where a couple of characters are getting their newspapers from a machine that custom-prints them based on their preferences and interests. It's such a charmingly dated idea of how we'd get news in the future...

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.


The_Doctor posted:

S1E8 - And the Sky Full of Stars


Sinclair remembers (some bits)! I feel like Delenn being on the ship/on the Grey Council isn’t the huge revelation the writers think it is, considering they’ve been repeatedly saying it over and over up til now. And the Minbari are keeping a secret about what happened there. Well... yeah. That’s where we were when the episode started, too. But now a blind Minbari dude appeared to reiterate that fact!


I think that's just how JMS does his writing. While B5 was the predecessor for modern shows like Battlestar, Game of Thrones, Expanse, etc. I think Babylon 5 was very different in how it developed a lot of its 'twists.' JMS has said that a story shouldn't be predictable but you should be able to predict it. In that sense, if everything is laid out and explained well, the audience should be able to see where it will go. He's a big believer in a well-executed Chekov's gun. So, I think for a lot of B5, the 'twists' can seem almost obvious - especially if you're paying attention and binging through it - because JMS believes that they should be foreshadowed. This is different to a lot of modern shows that do serialised storytelling, where big twists just happen because it keeps the audience guessing/engaged. Wow, this person is a Cylon! Wow, this person killed the Night King! Can you go back and see the breadcrumbs or hints that led to those big moments? Naaah.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk







Rich burlew (order of the stick) is also a master of this. Joss whedon too, tbh.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~


Angry Salami posted:

There's a scene later in the series where a couple of characters are getting their newspapers from a machine that custom-prints them based on their preferences and interests. It's such a charmingly dated idea of how we'd get news in the future...

Its dated in some ways, but at the core its eerily accurate. B5 basically predicted the Almighty Google Algorithm by imagining that we would tell a computer the things we care about and the computer in turn would deliver us content to match those desires each day. Their newspapers are basically your daily youtube recommends.

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

I think that's just how JMS does his writing. While B5 was the predecessor for modern shows like Battlestar, Game of Thrones, Expanse, etc. I think Babylon 5 was very different in how it developed a lot of its 'twists.' JMS has said that a story shouldn't be predictable but you should be able to predict it. In that sense, if everything is laid out and explained well, the audience should be able to see where it will go. He's a big believer in a well-executed Chekov's gun. So, I think for a lot of B5, the 'twists' can seem almost obvious - especially if you're paying attention and binging through it - because JMS believes that they should be foreshadowed. This is different to a lot of modern shows that do serialised storytelling, where big twists just happen because it keeps the audience guessing/engaged. Wow, this person is a Cylon! Wow, this person killed the Night King! Can you go back and see the breadcrumbs or hints that led to those big moments? Naaah.

I think there can be merit to a complete out of nowhere twist though. The two big twists during the season finale of Galactica Season 3 were mindblowing and exciting and you were almost desperate to know what was going on and what those reveals meant about the future AND the past. What resulted from them was... controversial, lets say, but that's not the fault of the moment, its the fault of the failure to follow up.

Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jun 5, 2020

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.


Sanguinia posted:

Its dated in some ways, but at the core its eerily accurate. B5 basically predicted the Almighty Google Algorithm by imagining that we would tell a computer the things we care about and the computer in turn would deliver us content to match those desires each day. Their newspapers are basically your daily youtube recommends.

Well, yeah, that's what made it so charming - the juxtaposition of correctly predicting people would have custom news feeds in the future, while still thinking they'd come in the form of a physical newspaper.

It's like how there's a voice-activated typewriter in one of Asimov's novels - that sort of combination of the futuristic with the obsolete always amuses me.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004





Angry Salami posted:

It's like how there's a voice-activated typewriter in one of Asimov's novels - that sort of combination of the futuristic with the obsolete always amuses me.

It wasn't even a typewriter. It was a handwriting machine, because Arkady Darrel nagged her dad to get a "delightfully feminine script" for it. I always thought that machine was a cool "future toy" back when I first read the foundation series when I was a kid and would never actually happen. Now I shitpost via voice to text on my phone.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1ep10 - Beliebers

“The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.”

Ah, we’re doing a religious thing here. Isn’t it Jehovah’s Witnesses that have something like this about blood transfusions? And no puncturing the skin at all? Jeez, I slice one of my fingers open at least once a year while cooking.

Interestingly, this is 4 years before the anti-vax movement started, and this is a good encapsulation of that daftness.

I honestly think Kosh said something mysterious and vague just to get them to go away.

“You are refusing because of your beliefs?!” Yeah ironic, huh?

The only message I’m getting here is ‘religion is really, really dumb’, which honestly feels at odds with ‘Parliament of Dreams’ where we saw the other worlds’ religions, and it all came across as very deferential.

And Ivanova did a thing too, I guess? The parallel ‘breaking orders’ thing feels very weak, and honestly the whole episode is poor. I honestly kept pausing and wandering off during this ep I was so disengaged.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

A note for other series veterans that has nothing really to do with the content of my post aside from that I'm using spoiler tags and am a series veteran: My intent is to offer only per-episode analysis and stuff based on previous episodes, not future (from The_Doctor's position) episodes. I think this should be fine for a blind watch thread but if y'all think any series veteran posting stuff in spoiler tags is a problem I'll go from watching my words to just biting my tongue and staying silent.

(A note for The_Doctor: what I wrote below is fine, really, there've just been some discussions in the main thread about how much this thread should be left alone and I try to err on the side of caution and respect.)

The_Doctor posted:

S1ep10 - Beliebers

“The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.”

Ah, we’re doing a religious thing here. Isn’t it Jehovah’s Witnesses that have something like this about blood transfusions? And no puncturing the skin at all? Jeez, I slice one of my fingers open at least once a year while cooking.

Interestingly, this is 4 years before the anti-vax movement started, and this is a good encapsulation of that daftness.

I honestly think Kosh said something mysterious and vague just to get them to go away.

“You are refusing because of your beliefs?!” Yeah ironic, huh?

The only message I’m getting here is ‘religion is really, really dumb’, which honestly feels at odds with ‘Parliament of Dreams’ where we saw the other worlds’ religions, and it all came across as very deferential.

And Ivanova did a thing too, I guess? The parallel ‘breaking orders’ thing feels very weak, and honestly the whole episode is poor. I honestly kept pausing and wandering off during this ep I was so disengaged.


Specifically on the first point, I believe JMS clarified on usenet that it's more about the abdominal cavity or some kind of organ sac that species has, not just the skin.

On the fifth point, I think that's a difference in focal characters. Sinclair was the focus in Parliament, and is much more tolerant of religious beliefs in Believers than Franklin is. The episode's following Franklin's reaction of "Well that's just insane.", not Sinclair's "I respect that you are doing what you feel you must."

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


Also not all Season 1 episodes stick the landing. Can’t wait for them to get to our favorite one.

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


@ the doctor
Interestingly, this is 4 years before the anti-vax movement started, and this is a good encapsulation of that daftness.
anti-vaccination movement has a very long history way before kareninitis hit the humankind. smallpox for example

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






The_Doctor posted:

S1ep10 - Beliebers

“The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.”

Ah, we’re doing a religious thing here. Isn’t it Jehovah’s Witnesses that have something like this about blood transfusions? And no puncturing the skin at all? Jeez, I slice one of my fingers open at least once a year while cooking.

Interestingly, this is 4 years before the anti-vax movement started, and this is a good encapsulation of that daftness.

I honestly think Kosh said something mysterious and vague just to get them to go away.

“You are refusing because of your beliefs?!” Yeah ironic, huh?

The only message I’m getting here is ‘religion is really, really dumb’, which honestly feels at odds with ‘Parliament of Dreams’ where we saw the other worlds’ religions, and it all came across as very deferential.

And Ivanova did a thing too, I guess? The parallel ‘breaking orders’ thing feels very weak, and honestly the whole episode is poor. I honestly kept pausing and wandering off during this ep I was so disengaged.


Discussion for s1ep10 only and nothing else



I don't think the message is that religion is dumb. One can easily take the viewpoint that Franklin is a stubborn rear end for breaking the rules to uphold his moral values while ignoring theirs. Yeah, the family is dumb and kind of annoying, but so is Franklin with his holier than thou attitude, tbh.

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Polished off another one!

S1Ep11 - Survivors

”The universe is run by the complex inter-weaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.”


The opening scene has some interesting worldbuilding going on. Holding the handrail because they’re in a low gravity area, the announcements and signs in languages other than English, and the various light rail commuters. And it’s topped off by Ivanova’s colour-changing uniform! :haw:


Ah, this week is Garibaldi’s turn holding the ‘figure from my past’ ball.

Leanna straight up kills a man, and a few slurred words while still under heavy sedation are enough to start throwing her weight around? I appreciate the personal tragic history between them, but this is deep into ‘emotionally compromised vendetta’ territory. Someone could use some oversight, but that doesn’t seem to exist in this universe. It occurs to me this is basically The Drumhead with extra action, but at least Leanna is willing to listen to new evidence when it comes and change her mind. Interesting that once again it’s Homeguard raising their ugly head. Boo the fascists!

Londo and G’kar continue to be really great characters. :3:

OH! I just realised during all these “stealth” scenes they’re getting their dollar store Bruce Willis to do a Die Hard. :doh:

This was much better, with some fun beats. The tiny lowlife bar way deep in Brown Sector (I’ve really got to see a map at some point) was a nice insight into the strata of the station, and shows that not everywhere is the glitzy casino or the ZoCaLo. 250,000 people in a 5 mile long station creates a lot of spare room for all sorts of necessities to spring up.

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