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TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


The_Doctor posted:

Lol, longer write-ups. I'm writing spur of the moment thoughts into my Notes app while I watch and then c/p-ing them straight into the thread once I've tidied them up.

But ok, 1x12 here we go!

It's working for you, so don't change the formula.

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Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


Ah, I can't really pay full attention and take notes at the same time. I made it through a Bachelor's degree with the same notebook I brought to my first class in my first semester. Unfortunately my ability to live without notes in lectures doesn't translate at all to watching TV shows lol.

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jun 6, 2020

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E14 "TKO"
I hadn't realized Ivanova was Jewish. They handled that pretty well here, a contrast to the one about the dying kid.

lol @ the Zima ad on the wall

I'm glad they keep circumventing overdone tropes, once again they introduce something (the guy trying to shoot Smith during the fight) and then say actually, no, we're not doing that.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1Ep12 - By Any Means Necessary

“Why does the universe hate me?”

I’ve been wondering how that one small opening in the station deals with all that ship traffic coming back and forth, and I guess the answer is ‘not great!’ Poor Mario the foreman losing Luigi like that. As they pointed out in both Event Horizon and the Martian, fire in space is terrifying.

STRIKE! Bringing in a super smarmy triggerhappy negotiator seems like the worst thing Earth could have done. Strikes and riots gave you the 8 hour workday, the weekend, equal pay and pay increases. It seems like workers’ right have slid back over the past 200 years considering this strike is illegal for some reason.

The workers held virtually all the cards, and inflicting violence on them would do no-one any favours, including Earth govt. This was proper nitty gritty politics, and super relevant right now as rumours of a general strike in the US persist. Sinclair’s solution seemed to come out of left field a bit, but there is a modicum of setup for it, so I’ll let it pass.

That said, loving bootlicker Garibaldi, rather than refusing the order to attack the workers, just wades right in and kicks off the riot. ACAB, even in the future.

Goddamn that journo character is annoying.

There’s some decent acting on Sinclair’s part as he just looks more and more drained as the episode goes on. His final bit in the council chamber with Londo and G’kar is also nicely done, as he seems just absolutely done with everything. But this is a man that also knows the day isn’t over until this last obstacle over a goddamn plant is solved. Sleep well, commander.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


The_Doctor posted:

S1Ep12 - By Any Means Necessary

“Why does the universe hate me?”

I’ve been wondering how that one small opening in the station deals with all that ship traffic coming back and forth, and I guess the answer is ‘not great!’ Poor Mario the foreman losing Luigi like that. As they pointed out in both Event Horizon and the Martian, fire in space is terrifying.

STRIKE! Bringing in a super smarmy triggerhappy negotiator seems like the worst thing Earth could have done. Strikes and riots gave you the 8 hour workday, the weekend, equal pay and pay increases. It seems like workers’ right have slid back over the past 200 years considering this strike is illegal for some reason.

The workers held virtually all the cards, and inflicting violence on them would do no-one any favours, including Earth govt. This was proper nitty gritty politics, and super relevant right now as rumours of a general strike in the US persist. Sinclair’s solution seemed to come out of left field a bit, but there is a modicum of setup for it, so I’ll let it pass.

That said, loving bootlicker Garibaldi, rather than refusing the order to attack the workers, just wades right in and kicks off the riot. ACAB, even in the future.

Goddamn that journo character is annoying.

There’s some decent acting on Sinclair’s part as he just looks more and more drained as the episode goes on. His final bit in the council chamber with Londo and G’kar is also nicely done, as he seems just absolutely done with everything. But this is a man that also knows the day isn’t over until this last obstacle over a goddamn plant is solved. Sleep well, commander.


Garibaldi's actions here were one of my biggest complaints about the show so far. I know he's a cop, but I actually thought the scene where they showed up was going to be a twist with them standing in unity with the dock workers.

Like, you're the head of security and you JUST saw that the conditions they deal with caused an accident. I would like to think that to be a cop on Babylon 5 you'd have to be best of the best. I mean what happened is honestly more realistic because lol cops but drat that made me dislike the character.

I enjoyed the G'Kar/Londo bits at least.

Also the negotiater's name, Orin Zento, made my brain crack a bit and I have no idea why. Maybe it's someone's forum name or something.

Lobster God
Nov 5, 2008


The_Doctor posted:

S1Ep12 - By Any Means Necessary

“Why does the universe hate me?”

STRIKE! Bringing in a super smarmy triggerhappy negotiator seems like the worst thing Earth could have done. Strikes and riots gave you the 8 hour workday, the weekend, equal pay and pay increases. It seems like workers’ right have slid back over the past 200 years considering this strike is illegal for some reason.
.


Yeah I think this definitely speaks to a reduction in worker's rights- the way the Rush Act is referred to makes it seem like legislation that was passed on the basis of being used in an emergency but ends up being used all the time.

I also wonder if there are echoes of the American west here- B5 is the frontier, as is Mars and the other colonies from what I recall and the lawns all just a bit... fuzzier out there compared to Earth.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1Ep12 - Signs and Portents

“What do you want?”

The opening has me wondering about raiders. I get that they’re space pirates, but from where? Are they human? Alien? A general melange of anyone willing to sign up? Also those triangular fighters, how many of those do they have? For pirates I’d expect more a mishmash of assorted ships commandeered from all the races, not this standard, very identifiable ship. That level of standardisation implies money and resources. Who’s behind the raiders?

Lord Kiro’s face bothered me until I realised it was Q2/Quinn from that one Voyager episode. And I like the worldbuilding concept of the length of Centauri peacock hair denoting their status (the guards having tiny ducktail tufts tickles me). Also, this would seem to be the first indication that not just humans and Minbari have psychic abilities, with the Bene Gesserit prophetess aunt.

Ok, that’s the first ep I’ve not been able to really do notes while watching, and it’s fun they cleared up things a little from my first paragraph!

But anyway, OHHHH! Morden is cheerful and creepy as hell, and we’re reminded that Kosh is playing a much bigger picture game than everyone else. What happened with him and Morden?! He needs to fix his encounter suit? I had to rewind that scene to see if I missed anything. What was that electrical sound as the scene ended? Was it just wires or was there some big fight that we weren’t privy to? I’m really curious about what Kosh knows, and Morden’s abilities.

And Delenn! Her reaction to Morden’s presence was very curious; it seemed like even though she didn’t know who Morden was, something defensive triggered inside her head (telepathic Grey Council race memory?)

I’m certain we’ll see more of Morden and his friends’ ship that just one-shotted the big raider carrier, and I can’t wait! The rather telling burn marks on the Eye’s box go unmentioned, and Mollari doesn’t really ask detailed questions. He’s almost certainly just made a deal with the devil.

Sinclair’s importance to the Minbari is definitely intriguing.

And I can’t finish without bringing up Lady Ladira’s rather chilling vision. That’s a money shot right there, the last ship out of the station as it all explodes. A possible future, for sure, but I feel it’s more likely than not.

Also, as an aside, my gay rear end was very mildly distracted by the stunningly gorgeous raider behind Kiro here:



EDIT: I just realised Sinclair and Bootlicker are peeing in their final scene together.

The_Doctor fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jun 6, 2020

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


The_Doctor posted:

S1Ep12 - Signs and Portents

“What do you want?”

I have a feeling that Morden/"the shadows" are the big bad this season, or possibly all series long. I liked that they kept showing him in varying shadows/the multiple shots of him that start by focusing on his shadow moving in to frame.

E:Oh and the detail about repairing Kosh's suit was ace

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 6, 2020

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


1 X 12 "By Any Means Necessary" was written by Kathryn Drennan, who at the time was married to JMS. (He had to be hands-off through the whole process and she got extra vetting as a writer/contributor, so the relationship was a hindrance as much as a help.) In her section of the B6 script books, she answers a bunch of questions about the episode. I've extracted a few comments related to our new watchers' responses; spoilers for this episode only:

She doesn't remember where Zento's name came from, just that she wanted a name that didn't sound like a 20th century name (for a change).

To the "things got worse in the future" point: she was inspired by the PATCO strike in 1981, when over 12,000 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization went on strike nationwide for shorter work weeks and better benefits for those retiring early due to the stress of the work. President Ronald Reagan declared the strike illegal, ordered them back to work in 48 hours, and fired all the ones who didn't return (11,000+ did not).

The original story got a lot of rewriting, mainly because JMS had to be hands-off and everyone else got their say. Then the director came in and said he preferred her original draft. JMS got permission from her to add Zento into the original draft (he appeared only in later drafts) and also added the ISN reporter: Drennen believes they had the actress contracted for the episode and would have to pay her regardless of whether or not she appeared. (It's possible that was due to the late switch back to the original draft, or she may have been scheduled to appear in another episode and then cut from it before production started.)

For the scenes with G'Kar praying, JMS wrote the prayers but Andreas Katsulas added the chants himself.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Read all of the OPs posts and they are extremely good. I watched Babylon 5 back when it originally aired, and two years ago I introduced it to my wife and she wanted to marathon the whole thing and loved it. Babylon 5 is one of the best TV shows ever made, easily top 3 in my opinion. I am so sad there's nothing new done with the franchise, that it is dead now is absolutely criminal when it's so much superior to Star Wars and Star Trek. Although I guess careful what you wish for, modern day Babylon 5 would probably strip out all of the politics and nuance of the races and setting.

Goblin Craft
Feb 12, 2002



You couldn't make a show like this today, no one's interested in the slow burn start anymore. I'm just as guilty with new stuff, as a viewer, if something doesn't grab my interest very quickly. Beyond that, though, there's no such thing as awe, wonder, seeking after the profound and wrestling with the great mysteries of life, those little moments that do nothing to further the plot but everything to further the themes. Drama, plot, comedy, action - guts and brains, that's all anybody knows anymore, no heart.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E15 - Grail
David Warner was great in this one. Liked Londo and Cotto's dumbass stuff and also realized during this episode that Cotto is the guy from animal house. Also having watched Deadwood recently, I laughed really hard when I saw who Deuce was.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


Posting these in their own posts in case someone blind watching wants to quote em for whatever reason.

S1E16 - Eyes
Hooray more Lennier! He's so cheerful. As is Delenn. That Colonel was a total dick, and I'm not gonna lie I love it when they get actors on here that chew the scenery a bit. Lol @ Ivanova getting in to a brawl moments before she knows she's gonna see a psychic.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


Son of Sam-I-Am posted:

You couldn't make a show like this today, no one's interested in the slow burn start anymore. I'm just as guilty with new stuff, as a viewer, if something doesn't grab my interest very quickly. Beyond that, though, there's no such thing as awe, wonder, seeking after the profound and wrestling with the great mysteries of life, those little moments that do nothing to further the plot but everything to further the themes. Drama, plot, comedy, action - guts and brains, that's all anybody knows anymore, no heart.

I definitely feel this the more I watch the show. There are loads of inconsequential side plots and small scenes between characters that exist only to further dissect some greater moral point, or simply for the joy of it. It happens a bit in modern story based shows (I'm just going to call them "prestige" shows), but mostly those moments are kind of tacked on to the ever important Long Plot and drama. There's a place for this kind of ...world building? that doesn't necessarily directly result in real consequence.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Yeah, I kind of miss the mix of episodic with long plots we used to get in the 90s/2000s.

Not that they were well executed, most of the time they weren't. But when they did it well you got stuff like Babylon 5 or Millennium.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


A story or two about 1 X 16 "Eyes" shared by the author, Larry DiTillio:

The actor playing Ben Zayn, Gregory Martin, was apparently going through a nasty divorce during the shooting of this episode. He decided to work through it by playing his part as big as possible. The director desperately tried to reign him in but failed. DiTillio indicates that most of the cast and crew (definitely including Michael O'Hare) genuinely hated him by the end of the shoot.

Both director Jim Johnston and DiTillio wanted the shot of Garibaldi and Lennier riding the motorcycle. They were told it wasn't safe and directly refused permission. They ended up doing the shot anyway and getting into trouble... but they used it in the episode along with the expected digital composite shot.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


Narsham posted:

A story or two about 1 X 16 "Eyes" shared by the author, Larry DiTillio:

The actor playing Ben Zayn, Gregory Martin, was apparently going through a nasty divorce during the shooting of this episode. He decided to work through it by playing his part as big as possible. The director desperately tried to reign him in but failed. DiTillio indicates that most of the cast and crew (definitely including Michael O'Hare) genuinely hated him by the end of the shoot.

Both director Jim Johnston and DiTillio wanted the shot of Garibaldi and Lennier riding the motorcycle. They were told it wasn't safe and directly refused permission. They ended up doing the shot anyway and getting into trouble... but they used it in the episode along with the expected digital composite shot.


I laughed really loving hard at the "digital composite shot", possibly some of the worst aged effects yet.

I loved Ben Zayn, I can see that the way he played it kinda made him feel like a character from another show, but come on they gave the guy an evil eye scar lol.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E17 - "Legacies"
This episode was a little.. boring? But it did give us a bunch of extra character backstory, more Ivanova stuff.

I am happy to see more of Minbari culture and the split in their castes. Delenn remains a delight as ever. I don't care much for Talia, but maybe they'll do more with her character soon.

I liked the Carrion Eaters section of the station. Any time we see the non-normal-humanoid aliens is a treat.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E18-19 - "A Voice in the Wilderness"
What an insanely contrived situation this two parter is. It's weird enough they built Babylon 5 above this planet, but they didn't get people to scan it well enough to see its a loving giant computer? The Vorlons let their ambassador live in this station without any vague assurance about the contents of the plant it orbits?

Other notes: wtf was with the Talia/Garibaldi elevator thing at the beginning of this episode?

Why did they hire the two worst actors in history for the civilian ship?

More shows of Delenn's kindness were appreciated as usual.

Mars insurrection was interestingish, but lol that it's used to give us Garibald's long awaited "lover from my past" story.

Londo's obsession with the Hokey Pokey was one of the funniest gags yet in the show.

Let's send both our 1st and 2nd in command of the station to investigate the planet shooting missiles at us. So they can roleplay Indiana Jones.

More evil military figures. Man humans suck in the future.

Garibaldi: starts a brawl over bigotry

Cool ending with the Minbari becoming the mind of the machine at least.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Currently watching s1ep14 - TKO

god this is dull

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


The_Doctor posted:

Currently watching s1ep14 - TKO

god this is dull

Probably the low point, but it still has some fun stuff in it.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010



Legit Cyberpunk



That's what people are thinking about when they advocate skipping s1.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


MrL_JaKiri posted:

Probably the low point, but it still has some fun stuff in it.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1ep14 - TKO

I remember that Channel 4 in the UK didn’t show this episode because of the violence (it was showing eps at 6pm in the evening), until some time much later.

I’m enjoying learning about Ivanova’s terrible past life, but the fighting story is properly tedious.

Sinclair’s instance on Ivanova sitting shiva reminds me a lot of the American Dad episode where Steve impresses on Snot that he should go to his father’s funeral. Snot doesn’t really care because he never had much of a relationship with his dad in the first place, but Steve insists and pushes. Same here with both Sinclair and the rabbi. Everyone is pushing for her to grieve and forgive, and that’s entirely on her. Ivanova is under no obligation to forgive someone, even her own father.

But I stand by my assertion this was a very dull episode.

Heh, Walker Smith is Sugar Ray Robinson’s real name.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


S1Ep15 - Grail

“Fools to the left of me, feeders to the right... I need a new job.”

J F Sebastian! David Warner! Good casting already making me feel better about this episode, and Warner is one of the best. He raises the material of whatever he’s in, and in particular here his speech about how he ended up on this path is spellbinding. The scene where he fights off Deuce’s men reminds me of something someone close to me wrote: “what cannot be stopped by the magic in a staff can often be brought short by a good poke in any available soft bits with a length of heavy timber.”

The Minbari appreciating the religious nature of Aldous’ quest to find the grail is thematically satisfying, and something I really enjoyed.

The little court case at the start was great! Abducted ancestors seeking grievances!

Bootlicker’s solution to a problem is clearing out the poor people from down below? You loving fascist scumbag, I hope you fall on a kerb teeth first.

The potted history of the Babylon stations is incredibly intriguing, particularly Babylon 4.

Londo being so afraid of the memory wipe creature he leaves money behind is hilarious.

I keep hearing distinctive TNG beep sounds all over the place. When Franklin messages in to confirm it’s the creature they think it is, there’s a sound that I absolutely know from Trek.

Calling a ship the Marie Celeste seems like inviting trouble. I hope Thomas is ok. And I hope the station is ok too. Sinclair’s confidence feels misplaced since he saw it go boom in that vision.

Nothing amazing going on, just lots of back and forth with David Warner being utterly amazing as the calm eye of the storm. I really wish he and Kosh has spoken, that would have been fascinating.

Finally, this last shot is gorgeous:

OtherworldlyInvader
Feb 10, 2005

The X-COM project did not deliver the universe's ultimate cup of coffee. You have failed to save the Earth.




Now that a few people are getting pretty deep into season 1, I'd love to hear what people think about what sort of larger picture is developing. A sort of step back from an episode by episode impressions, and looking more at things overall. What sort of things seem important? What sort of future events do you anticipate, and how might you expect them to play out? Anything strike you as particularly interesting so far?

This has been my favorite thread on the forum since it was posted!

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


OtherworldlyInvader posted:

Now that a few people are getting pretty deep into season 1, I'd love to hear what people think about what sort of larger picture is developing. A sort of step back from an episode by episode impressions, and looking more at things overall. What sort of things seem important? What sort of future events do you anticipate, and how might you expect them to play out? Anything strike you as particularly interesting so far?

This has been my favorite thread on the forum since it was posted!

Also who's your favorite character so far? Why?

Also LOVING this thread. Don't change any of your approaches to this, there are a ton of people enjoying this.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Bad News: This thread made me want to go rewatch B5, but sometime since my last rewatch a couple of years ago it went from free on Amazon Prime to per-episode-purchase on Amazon Prime. Being able to watch b5 is one of the reasons I finally broke down and got that drat service, what a gip!

Good News: Learning this allowed me to discover that Prime has apparently ALL of Stargate on it, from the original film through to Universe. Back in my college years I caught a lot of piecemeal episodes of SG1 and Atlantis on the SciFi channel, but I've never watched it in order all the way through. Maybe I'll follow in this thread's footsteps and do that

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


Sanguinia posted:

Bad News: This thread made me want to go rewatch B5, but sometime since my last rewatch a couple of years ago it went from free on Amazon Prime to per-episode-purchase on Amazon Prime. Being able to watch b5 is one of the reasons I finally broke down and got that drat service, what a gip!

Good News: Learning this allowed me to discover that Prime has apparently ALL of Stargate on it, from the original film through to Universe. Back in my college years I caught a lot of piecemeal episodes of SG1 and Atlantis on the SciFi channel, but I've never watched it in order all the way through. Maybe I'll follow in this thread's footsteps and do that

Yeah, that's a good idea. If you like B5 and DS9, then I would think you will like Stargate. It has the Monster of the Week episodes while still keeping the overall plot in mind. At least once you're past the early SG1 seasons.

I'm still sad that I never could get one of my friends who's a huge Stargate fan to watch B5

Goblin Craft
Feb 12, 2002



Sanguinia posted:

Bad News: This thread made me want to go rewatch B5, but sometime since my last rewatch a couple of years ago it went from free on Amazon Prime to per-episode-purchase on Amazon Prime. Being able to watch b5 is one of the reasons I finally broke down and got that drat service, what a gip!

Good News: Learning this allowed me to discover that Prime has apparently ALL of Stargate on it, from the original film through to Universe. Back in my college years I caught a lot of piecemeal episodes of SG1 and Atlantis on the SciFi channel, but I've never watched it in order all the way through. Maybe I'll follow in this thread's footsteps and do that

I just finished doing this for the first time, I'd seen the movie a few times but never any of the show. I enjoyed it and I would enjoy a thread.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


Please inform us if you decide to start a Stargate thread, I don't usually browse this sub-forum, and wouldn't have found this thread if it hadn't been mentioned in the main (spoiler) B5 thread.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


S1E20 - "Babylon Squared"
"The entire station. We've become unstuck in time, Commander." B4's commander's acting is another one of those wild guest performances.

Awesome episode, nice to start tackling some more of the bigger mysteries. This show really doesn't shy away from a bunch of incomprehensible poo poo happening at once, huh? Babylon 4 having been stolen by the future for war with the (surprise) "shadows".

Equally likely to all be a red herring/parallel universe. Considering we know the Zorlons are a match for the Shadows at least 1 on 1, and seem to be significantly the most advanced race seen, I have trouble groping with the future relying on a human made diplomatic space station to protect the galaxy, but I guess they might need everything they can get. Judging by Sinclair's age, the end game's what, 20 years in the future? I'll be interested to see if they pass any time between seasons.

Delenn refusing leadership "for the first time in 1000 years"

I continue my love of the Minbari. G'Kar has now been absent for what, 6 straight? I hope he gets more action soon and in future seasons. His face is a main one on the show icon on Amazon!

Here's the usual Sci-Fi wankery over humans' unique strengths. I'm sorry, I'm never a big fan of this. Humans are the only race that has emotions and cares and it makes them the most powerful blah blah blah.

Erulisse
Feb 12, 2019

A bad poster trying to get better.


eeeh

Erulisse fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 8, 2020

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

Ed Wasser (dude who plays Mr. Morden) manages to be quite fantastically slimy.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


TraderStav posted:

Also who's your favorite character so far? Why?

Also LOVING this thread. Don't change any of your approaches to this, there are a ton of people enjoying this.

Here are my S1 rankings. I've seen all of S1 now (just need to collect my thoughts on the individual episodes). I sucked it up and got a better setup for note taking so I could get my episode thoughts down without spoiling them trying to do it with future knowledge.

This is hardly a spoiler but my opinions are up through S1E22

My rankings are mostly based off of "How likely am I to enjoy this scene based off of their presence?"

1. Londo --------
1. G'Kar --------
1. Lennier -------
1.5 Delenn -----
1.5 Na'Toth ---
2. Cotto ---------
3. Ivanova ------
3. Sinclair ------
3.5 Garibaldi --
3.5 Dr. Franklin

Londo and G'Kar both are just great, well acted characters who are continuously a joy added to any episode.

Lennier is used frequently as a joke for his sheltered-ness but he also has shown loads of potential and he's, like the other Religious caste we've seen, just so.. pleasant. How can I put him lower tier? Delenn is similarly ranked, but her plots haven't always been as interesting. She is still bae

Na'Toth is great and surprisingly deep. Her plots have tended to be pretty serious, but why not? Her race was subject of the Centauri, and personally her family had been tortured by Deathstalker.

Cotto is funny but so far he's mostly been a ridiculous foil to Londo for jokes. Apart from one pointless scene early on about the power of Love, he hasn't gotten a chance to move beyond that.

Ivanova has enough backstory to put her equal with Sinclair, who I don't care all that much about, honestly. I did have the foreknowledge of Michael O'Hare's departure, so I may have gotten more attached to him if I hadn't, but really the human plots haven't been largely as interesting or well acted so far. Garibaldi could be a good viewer standin if he wasn't a loving cop.

That's the main billed cast, which does not include Kosh. Kosh is honorable "above tier 1" because his scenes are incredible.

This was honestly really tough, I reserve my right to tier list instead of rank.

Aardvark! fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 8, 2020

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


TheAardvark posted:

S1E20 - "Babylon Squared"

Here's the usual Sci-Fi wankery over humans' unique strengths. I'm sorry, I'm never a big fan of this. Humans are the only race that has emotions and cares and it makes them the most powerful blah blah blah.


Oh yeah same.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Ugh, people were not joking about Babylon 5 no longer being free with Amazon Prime. It's $30 a season now.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down


TheAardvark posted:

Here are my S1 rankings. I've seen all of S1 now (just need to collect my thoughts on the individual episodes). I sucked it up and got a better setup for note taking so I could get my episode thoughts down without spoiling them trying to do it with future knowledge.

This is hardly a spoiler but my opinions are up through S1E22

My rankings are mostly based off of "How likely am I to enjoy this scene based off of their presence?"

1. Londo --------
1. G'Kar --------
1. Lennier -------
1.5 Delenn -----
1.5 Na'Toth ---
2. Cotto ---------
3. Ivanova ------
3. Sinclair ------
3.5 Garibaldi --
3.5 Dr. Franklin

Londo and G'Kar both are just great, well acted characters who are continuously a joy added to any episode.

Lennier is used frequently as a joke for his sheltered-ness but he also has shown loads of potential and he's, like the other Religious caste we've seen, just so.. pleasant. How can I put him lower tier? Delenn is similarly ranked, but her plots haven't always been as interesting. She is still bae

Na'Toth is great and surprisingly deep. Her plots have tended to be pretty serious, but why not? Her race was subject of the Centauri, and personally her family had been tortured by Deathstalker.

Cotto is funny but so far he's mostly been a ridiculous foil to Londo for jokes. Apart from one pointless scene early on about the power of Love, he hasn't gotten a chance to move beyond that.

Ivanova has enough backstory to put her equal with Sinclair, who I don't care all that much about, honestly. I did have the foreknowledge of Michael O'Hare's departure, so I may have gotten more attached to him if I hadn't, but really the human plots haven't been largely as interesting or well acted so far. Garibaldi could be a good viewer standin if he wasn't a loving cop.

That's the main billed cast, which does not include Kosh. Kosh is honorable "above tier 1" because his scenes are incredible.

This was honestly really tough, I reserve my right to tier list instead of rank.


Please update this at the end of each season! I thoroughly enjoyed your list and reasoning, but for the sake of spoilers cannot weigh in on them.

Aardvark!
Mar 3, 2002


Here's some hopes for S2+

I really want to see more utilization of the "secondary" cast of Lennier/Na'Toth/Vir. There's already been some of this with Lennier and Na'Toth performing major duties while the ambassadors are "off the ship" which my cynical mind hears as "the actor was unavailable or too expensive for these smaller scenes". Particularly Na'Toth, but I'm hoping for a Vir-centric episode soon.

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Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm


Tiny thing: Vorlon, not Zorlon.

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