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Roydrowsy
May 6, 2007



Somberbrero posted:

You're trying to very neatly move past the point, it's moving the goalposts. First, you say that I had no such conversation with Text. Then when I produce that conversation, it doesn't matter because you think sandwolf did it better.


I do not think I said "you never had that conversation", I feel relatively certain I said that I hadn't spotted it. In that regard, I acknowledge the errors of my previous statement.

Probably because there wasn't much to it, particularly that hadn't been said.
If I was going to lynch some poor schmoe who I was sure was town (due to my opposite alignment), I'd probably want to make a point of being helpful as well.


I'm sorry if I wasn't impressed.
The goal is to find scum, not issue apologies for failing to notice your "i'm a good guy" breadcrumbs.

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sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Somberbrero posted:

I'm not really following your reasoning sand. What don't you like about the spokes case?

I’ll do a write up. But the BLUF is I’m trusting night actions between Roy and Sci, and Tommu seems town. I think spokes is just a newbie doing an ok job, and thus the scum has to be you and dm boogie. That or spokes and DM boogie, cause I highly doubt you two are bussing at this point.. actually... screw me,

You guys can all ignore me or vote me if you want for this, but I’m backtracking again.

Now that I’ve written it out,

The correct play is to ##vote DM Boogie

I still think you are the other scum, but Simple elimination says DM boogie works in almost all permutations.

But I’m gonna still write up why I don’t like the spokes case in a bit

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Roydrowsy posted:

People realized Textbook was flailing about, because at least one player (Somber claims this but I can't find it) tried to give them advice about not flailing like a newbie, then still voted them out as scum anyhow.

Roydrowsy posted:

One way to look pro-town would be to claim that you did the same thing as Sand did... having not actually done it.


Roydrowsy posted:

I do not think I said "you never had that conversation", I feel relatively certain I said that I hadn't spotted it. In that regard, I acknowledge the errors of my previous statement.

Probably because there wasn't much to it, particularly that hadn't been said.
If I was going to lynch some poor schmoe who I was sure was town (due to my opposite alignment), I'd probably want to make a point of being helpful as well.


I'm sorry if I wasn't impressed.
The goal is to find scum, not issue apologies for failing to notice your "i'm a good guy" breadcrumbs.

Roy calls me out on some stuff. I pointed out he was incorrect. He responds by acting like I'm the rear end in a top hat for bringing it up. ##vote Roy It's just hugely inconsistent and I don't see how Roy is capable of that level of cognitive dissonance as Town.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Somber your initial case on spokes was because they called out Sci early after jokephase had basically ended, but they didn’t actually vote.

Spokes posted:

Yeah, I was mostly just saying it seemed weird to me and looking for clarification in case I didn't understand something. Didn't want to jump into a vote before getting an explanation, but it seems like it was just... suspicious on purpose? i'm sure this is a tenth-level play i'll grow to understand as i play more mafia, but it doesn't make any sense to me and nobody's cluing me in, so might as well put a vote behind my suspicions.

Spokes gives a “sorry I’m new and self-conscious” excuse, which I believe because it’s fairly standard and not too egregious. Null, maybe slightly scum read from me at this point.

Then the next time you bring spokes up you have no new info just

Somberbrero posted:

Spokes is my first choice and a good vote.



This next section is discussing spokes in the light of them calling you out then possibly omgus voting for you being hesitant in your voting. Which, though it is contadictory, can easily be explained by being a nervous newbie with an early D1 fallout. See Textbook Origins for that exact scenario this very game. The invite at the end is less performative imo than just self aware that they are making themselves a target.

Somberbrero posted:

This is more than just hesitation, it's contradiction. Spokes does the exact thing he threw shade at me for. When do people contradict themselves? When they're lying.


Spokes is motivated by external pressure to vote me, manufacturing a poor reason after the fact.


This post says nothing.


This unvote is performative.

after this, the case becomes a bitter back and forth over each others posts which cast them both in poor light. But again, I feel that the initial feud was unwarranted, and all the other “scumhunting” in bad faith.

Highlights include spokes posting a lurker case on boogie with Somber calling them out for it I’m staunch defense of boogie,

(End pt 1)

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Case in point, you’ve finally switched your vote, but to Roy. somber, if you weren’t scum, and I’m completely way off, AND spokes is actually scum and you are correct, the correct play would be to vote dm boogie and prove me wrong if they flip town. As theyve who’s mostly lurked anyway, and not contributed a huge amount, the fact you are changing your vote to Roy who has basically come out as an unchallenged cop instead to protect boogie makes YOU look scummy.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


sandnavyguy posted:

Case in point, you’ve finally switched your vote, but to Roy. somber, if you weren’t scum, and I’m completely way off, AND spokes is actually scum and you are correct, the correct play would be to vote dm boogie and prove me wrong if they flip town. As theyve who’s mostly lurked anyway, and not contributed a huge amount, the fact you are changing your vote to Roy who has basically come out as an unchallenged cop instead to protect boogie makes YOU look scummy.

what?

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

Lmao yeah what

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


sandnavyguy posted:

after this, the case becomes a bitter back and forth over each others posts which cast them both in poor light. But again, I feel that the initial feud was unwarranted, and all the other “scumhunting” in bad faith.

also, earlier i was going to ask if you had even bothered to read the casework between us, but i thought 'no, that's lovely. i'm sure sand did and i'm just having trouble communicating.' now i'm pretty sure you didn't.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



I mean obviously I could be wrong...

But I really don’t think I am. Tommu? Any thoughts? (I know your time zone is different but whenever you can shed some light on my assumptions would help)

Also, the clock is ticking. Bottom line is if the flip today is not scum tomorrow is lylo and as cop has already basically come out, we may as well be prepared to mass claim, so whenever y’all want to is fine. Me I’m just a ##dance baby who moves to the groove as a VT.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Did no one read the back and forth about 10 posts ago by Roy and Sci?

I might be tinfoil hat here, but Roy clearly infers they investigated Sci and got a non-scum read. Scientastic replies that they won’t be voting for Roy. In a basic game like this, setup spec would say we probably have a cop. If Roy was lying, or even just joking, the actual cop would hop on that so fast our heads would spin.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


sandnavyguy posted:

I mean obviously I could be wrong...

But I really don’t think I am. Tommu? Any thoughts? (I know your time zone is different but whenever you can shed some light on my assumptions would help)

Also, the clock is ticking. Bottom line is if the flip today is not scum tomorrow is lylo and as cop has already basically come out, we may as well be prepared to mass claim, so whenever y’all want to is fine. Me I’m just a ##dance baby who moves to the groove as a VT.

##unvote while i try to process wtf you're doing

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



With as slow and trickle fed as posts and info has been this game, Sci is experienced enough to know what those breadcrumbs mean, and reacted accordingly. Spokes is new so may not have noticed,

But somber you’re great enough at this game there’s no excuse for you not to have seen it immediately.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



For clarification I can ## Dance. That’s my useless but imo town affirming power. I’m other wise vanilla. I mention it so that everyone knows I’m being straightforward with my crazy posts and not doing an SK or scum gambit.

Roydrowsy
May 6, 2007



sandnavyguy posted:

Did no one read the back and forth about 10 posts ago by Roy and Sci?

I might be tinfoil hat here, but Roy clearly infers they investigated Sci and got a non-scum read. Scientastic replies that they won’t be voting for Roy. In a basic game like this, setup spec would say we probably have a cop. If Roy was lying, or even just joking, the actual cop would hop on that so fast our heads would spin.

You guys are trying to get me killed.
ACAB.

##unvote

##vote dmboogie


That’s the hammer.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


sandnavyguy posted:

Did no one read the back and forth about 10 posts ago by Roy and Sci?

I might be tinfoil hat here, but Roy clearly infers they investigated Sci and got a non-scum read. Scientastic replies that they won’t be voting for Roy. In a basic game like this, setup spec would say we probably have a cop. If Roy was lying, or even just joking, the actual cop would hop on that so fast our heads would spin.

why... would you out them if that was the case?

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

dmboogie (4): Scientastic, Tommu, sandnavyguy, Roydrowsy
Spokes (1): Somberbrero, dmboogie, Somberbrero
Somberbrero (0): Spokes, Roydrowsy, Spokes, sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, Roydrowsy
Roydrowsy (0): sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, Somberbrero, Somberbrero

Not Voting (2): Somberbrero, Spokes

With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 3 a.m. EDT -- that's in about 8 hours, 43 minutes.

What even is this box

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

#essereFerrari



The babies arranged themselves in a circle and began to debate as to what they’d seen and to who was the most likely to have committed the heinous act of violence towards reptar. Eventually their attention turned to one baby.

He had been a righteous baby, his time in the daycare spent promoting peace and caring for each other. If there weren’t enough cookies they’d find a way to make it work, but it would take trust and a sense of community.

“Fake!” cried the others, “you’re just trying to find a way to keep the cookies for yourself!”

“No” he replied “There is a way we can save this situation. Listen and I’ll tell you how”

His words fell on deaf ears, and despite his lamentations eventually it was clear he was singled out as the culprit. As James came to carry him to the exit and call his Father he peeked over James’ shoulder and looked at his accusers. With a sad look on his face he spoke to them for a final time.

“I’m angry, but I am not hateful. Though I’m leaving the daycare I will not leave you. Know that I still care for all of you, and though your selfish actions here may lead to consequences down the line, I hope that all of you will one day realise the error of your ways and make good."

dmboogie, The Son of Man – Daycare aligned Doctor Baby Jesus has returned home.

Sheila turned to the remaining babies, her faith in the innocence of youth shaken.

“Alright tykes, I know that was difficult but I need you all to sleep now. We’ll have some more play time later but for now I think everyone needs a rest.”

PLAY TIME IS OVER. IT IS NOW NAP TIME
Nap time will end sunday evening, or when all night actions have been submitted.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

#essereFerrari



As the babies roused themselves from their naps they wearily looked about to see if any new toys had been broken. Everyone’s prized possessions were alright except for one.

It was a microphone, laying next to a little stage made for dolls. A scene of destruction lay there now, dolls and bits of microphone scattered on the ground.
She’d been rather successful in her time, a singer who had brought happiness to millions. The daycare had been a chance for her to take some time off, and she’d amused herself by singing to the other babies. Now, with her microphone broken she figured it was time to leave.

James and Sheila arrived and looked at the broken toys in the middle of the room.

“Oh no, not again...” said James.

“No, it’s alright. I think I should go. My friends probably miss me, I need to get back to work and really, I don’t know if I fit in with these guys. Maybe it’s time I struck out on my own” she said in a sing-songy voice while heading for the door.

James and sheila shared a confused look. She was able to speak far better than most of the other babies, and was considerably larger than them as well. Maybe they needed to rethink their admissions policy? Either way, she left of her own accord.

Tommu, Baby Spice, Daycare aligned vanilla baby pop star has left to pursue solo ventures!

James and Sheila looked to the five that were left. Would this madness ever end?
NAP TIME IS OVER. IT IS NOW PLAY TIME

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

Somberbrero (1): Spokes, Roydrowsy, Spokes, sandnavyguy, Roydrowsy
Spokes (0): Somberbrero, Somberbrero
Roydrowsy (0): sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, Somberbrero, Somberbrero

Not Voting (4): Roydrowsy, Scientastic, Somberbrero, Spokes

With 5 alive, it's 3 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 3 a.m. EDT -- that's in about 0 minutes.

Ahhh I might've messed the game up

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

#essereFerrari



votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 2

Somberbrero (1): Spokes, Roydrowsy, Spokes, sandnavyguy, Roydrowsy
Spokes (0): Somberbrero, Somberbrero
Roydrowsy (0): sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy, Somberbrero, Somberbrero

Not Voting (4): Roydrowsy, Scientastic, Somberbrero, Spokes

With 5 alive, it's 3 votes to execute. The current deadline is July 18th, 2020 at 3 a.m. EDT -- that's in about 0 minutes.

Ahhh I might've messed the game up

That should read day 3, and tuesday night 11:59 pm EST will be the deadline. (there are no votes yet, obviously)

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Hmmmmm...

First off, to answer your question somber i outed Roy because I misread and thought he’d outright claimed to be cop. That was entirely my bad.

Also drat I was sure DM was just being a lurker scum.

That said... why on earth is Roy still alive? Scum not NK on a possible cop when we are at lylo is bizarre right? Am I crazy?

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


That hammer was scummy as gently caress. Shutting down the thread with 8 hours to go before deadline is absolutely criminal.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Somberbrero posted:

That hammer was scummy as gently caress. Shutting down the thread with 8 hours to go before deadline is absolutely criminal.

I agree. And in light of the fact they weren’t the night kill when we scum knew the doc was dead, and they gambled on Tommu but they were a VT, this strongly suggests they thought they shouldn’t kill our only cop?
So. If I’m wrong(cough, like last time) please let me know, but either Roy is a cop let living to be framed by scum, or Roy is scum, and I’m REALLY thinking that hes scum.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



sandnavyguy posted:

I agree. And in light of the fact they weren’t the night kill when we scum knew the doc was dead, and they gambled on Tommu but they were a VT, this strongly suggests they thought they shouldn’t kill our only cop?
So. If I’m wrong(cough, like last time) please let me know, but either Roy is a cop let living to be framed by scum, or Roy is scum, and I’m REALLY thinking that hes scum.

Mafia edit: we and*

Please don’t turbo me for a mobile typo.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I’m sorry that I wasn’t around to correct the misapprehension that I thought Roy was a cop, I don’t think he’s a cop.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I had some flavour that suggested I had been visited, and I think Roy was tentatively clearing me because he either knows I didn’t go anywhere or he blocked me from doing anything, and there was a kill. I don’t think it does clear me, because obviously it doesn’t, but I didn’t scum claiming it out of nowhere.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


sandnavyguy posted:

That said... why on earth is Roy still alive? Scum not NK on a possible cop when we are at lylo is bizarre right? Am I crazy?

I don’t think it’s that bizarre. Roy is likely to draw any remaining PRs, a cautious scum player might worry about a watcher, and want to NK a less obvious player. I assumed I would be dead today when I saw the hammer.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I just started a holiday in Scotland, so I will be phoneposting for the remainder of the game, but I think Somber is scum. I am exhausted tonight, but I will try to go through his posts tomorrow and see if I can find anything that backs up that feeling.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Two scum would mean we’re in LYLO right now, right?

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Scientastic posted:

Two scum would mean we’re in LYLO right now, right?

Yep

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Scientastic posted:

I had some flavour that suggested I had been visited, and I think Roy was tentatively clearing me because he either knows I didn’t go anywhere or he blocked me from doing anything, and there was a kill. I don’t think it does clear me, because obviously it doesn’t, but I didn’t scum claiming it out of nowhere.

Ah that definitely makes more sense. I forgot you were in a different time zone so thought the silence was tacit approval. My bad, that was very rookie of me.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


This is a 9 player game, why are you all acting like there's tons of different roles? It's probably tracker and doctor and that's it.

If spokes or scientastic are town the game is probably over because neither will listen to me.

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

sandnavyguy posted:

That said... why on earth is Roy still alive? Scum not NK on a possible cop when we are at lylo is bizarre right? Am I crazy?

Everybody had some degree of suspicion on Roy, I think scum could see him as a potential lunch target today. He's suspicious as hell in general and that hammer called a huge amount of attention to himself. the occam's razor is that he's scum, of course--I'm just trying to theorize reasons he'd be left alive.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Somberbrero posted:

This is a 9 player game, why are you all acting like there's tons of different roles? It's probably tracker and doctor and that's it.

If spokes or scientastic are town the game is probably over because neither will listen to me.

I’ll listen to you, don’t be silly, we’ve got time for everyone to make their case(s) and be heard.

I was targeted on the 15th of July, whatever night that was, and it was something that doesn’t really fit with being docked, so I think Roy probably targeted me. I believe he has a PR, whether it’s town or not, I don’t know.

I guess because it’s LYLO, we should think about claiming powers and actions?

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Which is straightforward for me: I’m vanilla town so no actions. I would be keen to know what Roy is claiming to see if it fits with the flavour I received.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Well I already bared mine. I’m a disco dancing baby

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



VT of course

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


I'm a lil vanilla baby joey and my mom is totally fine.

Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

Somberbrero posted:

This is a 9 player game, why are you all acting like there's tons of different roles? It's probably tracker and doctor and that's it.

If spokes or scientastic are town the game is probably over because neither will listen to me.

I think I've done a much better job listening to you than vice versa, tbh. I was a little tentative on day 1 but as I've made arguments, i've stuck to them as long as they make sense and moved to others when more information is available. Meanwhile, you've screeched things like "NOW YOU THINK BOOGIE IS TOWN!?!?" and "I NEVER SAID SAND WAS SCUM", specifically trying to misrepresent my arguments as loudly as possible.

That said, if we're both town, the only way for us to win is to vote correctly together here. THAT said, I don't think you're town. But I'm also not willing to stake the game on it this second. Let's both take a little bit of time to cool down and we can all do a re-read. No rush. But like he said, Sci is ten time zones away and exhausted. Yesterday went to poo poo because the hammer went down and the voters all (supposedly) thought everyone had weighed in. And then Tommu was killed before he could come back and offer his thoughts. We have two more flips than we had yesterday and this vote is critical. I'll be reading through as well here and post my thoughts afterward

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Spokes
Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

i'm also a proud resident of Vanilla Town

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