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SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

And maybe RF

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Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sal, Town Aligned Unconfirmed Mason has dayed.


Sal was the Spanish Steps.



Votecount for Day 2

SalTheBard (6): JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA, Retro Futurist, tpink, Scientastic, Sandwolf, Scientastic, Toalpaz, Mr. Humalong, JOHN CENA
cheese sandwich (3): Hal Incandenza, Scientastic, Mr. Humalong, spacing in vienna, Mr. Humalong
Retro Futurist (1): cheese sandwich
JOHN CENA (0): Scientastic, Scientastic, JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA
Sandwolf (0): JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA, cheese sandwich, JOHN CENA, cheese sandwich, JOHN CENA
tpink (0): spacing in vienna, spacing in vienna
Mr. Humalong (0): SalTheBard, JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA, SalTheBard

Not Voting (1): SalTheBard

With 11 alive, it's 6 votes to execute. The current deadline is August 14th, 2020 at 9 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 14 hours, 20 minutes.


You have like 24ish hours to submit night actions.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Hal Incandenza, Town Aligned Vanilla was killed.

Hal was Froggy Fresh's Christmas.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 3



Not Voting (9): cheese sandwich, JOHN CENA, Mr. Humalong, Retro Futurist, Sandwolf, Scientastic, spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, tpink

With 9 alive, it's 5 votes to execute. The current deadline is August 18th, 2020 at 9 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 4 days, 1 hour.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




JC doesn't look great right now but my mod brain is telling me there's no way that in a game with one 2-man masonry it's as simple as town/scum.

Cheese also looking bad.

I honestly kind of have town reads on everyone else. Neutral at worst.

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

Surprised by the Sal flip. Also really surprised by the Hal NK. Hmm.

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

Retro Futurist posted:

JC doesn't look great right now but my mod brain is telling me there's no way that in a game with one 2-man masonry it's as simple as town/scum.

Cheese also looking bad.

I honestly kind of have town reads on everyone else. Neutral at worst.

I assume the roles got assigned with RNG so I donít know why it seems so unlikely that you end up with a town-scum masonry.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




tpink posted:

I assume the roles got assigned with RNG so I don’t know why it seems so unlikely that you end up with a town-scum masonry.

If I were making the game I'd figure out the alignment and role before RNGing anything. Granted I didn't make this game but I think it's unusual to treat them seperately.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Retro Futurist posted:

JC doesn't look great right now but my mod brain is telling me there's no way that in a game with one 2-man masonry it's as simple as town/scum.

...

You were voting sal right? Did you really think sal was doing a gambit with JC and they were both scum or what?

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Toalpaz posted:

...

You were voting sal right? Did you really think sal was doing a gambit with JC and they were both scum or what?

I'd mentioned as a possibility but was never fully sold on it, no.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Toalpaz posted:

...

You were voting sal right? Did you really think sal was doing a gambit with JC and they were both scum or what?

Yes I did.

I now donít think JC is worth pursuing at all, donít know how to feel about Cheese but a little hesitant after Salís flip

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I'm going to reread the game because I haven't been following along as much as I should be.

buuut,

it does strike me as absurd setup spec to see this flip and say 'JC is town' because of it. It's fine if you have your own read of JC, but the way that RF phrased his statement sounded like:

Retro Futurist posted:

JC doesn't look great right now but my mod brain is telling me there's no way that in a game with one 2-man masonry it's as simple as town/scum.

and then on the subject of whether sal and JC were both scum:

Retro Futurist posted:

I'd mentioned as a possibility but was never fully sold on it, no.

So what I'm getting from this is when RF voted sal he: Didn't believe there was 1 scum in the masonry. He also didn't believe there were 2 scum in the masonry.

Why vote sal at all, especially in light of the flip when JC is so willing to vote his mason bud? Did that information mean nothing to you then? I just don't understand this rational.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Huh? I didn't know Sal's alignment until he, you know, flipped. Until that happens anything I decide about numbers and alignments is just theory crafting.
I'm less inclined to think Cena is scum today based in setup spec but I'm not going to stake my whole claim on it or anything. If Sal had flipped scum I would have suspected Cena yes absolutely, but I'm not saying Cena is 100% confirmed town now or anything

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Wow look at all the fancy people with stuff to do on a Friday night

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Turps posting Whatsup RF

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


JC was obstructive all day yesterday, pushing the Sandwolf execution with bad reasoning and creating that really stupid dichotomy, and he hammered way early for no reason. We could have learned something from interactions around the Sal execution, or he could have worked to shift the vote to someone he actually thought was scum, but instead he just hammered.

JC has been scummy all game and his behaviour yesterday was completely shocking. Look at his play and tell me the town motivation for anything he has done.

##Vote JC

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Itís the weekend, so I am busy with my kids, but I will try to put a formal case together later. Iíd really like anyone who thinks JC is town to go through his posts and quote something that they think is a town post. Because I suspect itíll be pretty difficult.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


And setup spec is a terrible reason to even partially clear JC

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



What if I told you I wouldnít vote JC today, Sci?

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Scientastic posted:

JC was obstructive all day yesterday, pushing the Sandwolf execution with bad reasoning and creating that really stupid dichotomy, and he hammered way early for no reason. We could have learned something from interactions around the Sal execution, or he could have worked to shift the vote to someone he actually thought was scum, but instead he just hammered.

JC has been scummy all game and his behaviour yesterday was completely shocking. Look at his play and tell me the town motivation for anything he has done.

##Vote JC

odd how you absolutely refused to vote for me yesterday but are willing to do it today lol

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Scientastic posted:

Itís the weekend, so I am busy with my kids, but I will try to put a formal case together later. Iíd really like anyone who thinks JC is town to go through his posts and quote something that they think is a town post. Because I suspect itíll be pretty difficult.

i also advise everyone to go through my posts.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


then go through sandy's then through humalongs. look for interactions. look for intent behind posts. scientastic you sure could have avoided making a big dumb mess if you would have just voted for me like i demanded. but you didnt because of one of either two reasons, you are scum and you know that your entire game unravels and falls apart with my exoneration, or you are town and a coward who is unable to admit being wrong even if it means throwing the entire game away for everyone else.


sandwolf humalong and spacing in vienna i am positive are your scum team.


here's my vote today ##vote sandwolf


i am more than happy to change my vote if the other candidates are humalong or vienna.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


actually i change my mind, my vote isnt going to move and i still call and demand for thunderdome between myself and sandwolf

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Cena Iím not scum, I know you always think Iím scummy but boy oh boy Iím not, and Iím pretty sure youíre Town, so please donít do this

tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

JOHN CENA posted:

actually i change my mind, my vote isnt going to move and i still call and demand for thunderdome between myself and sandwolf

Oh great. We are doing this again, huh.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




JOHN CENA posted:

actually i change my mind, my vote isnt going to move and i still call and demand for thunderdome between myself and sandwolf

If you wanted to make any kind of case that would probably help things along.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Sandwolf posted:

What if I told you I wouldn’t vote JC today, Sci?

Why?

I never thought the masonry was a scum-scum gambit. I thought there was one scum among the two, and it was likely to be JC. Sal flipping town doesn't change that.

JC you've called me scum like three times with absolutely nothing backing it up. Maybe you think if you say it enough times people will mistakenly think you made a case?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Sci/SiV:

Letís just say, for the sake of argument, itís not Cena. Who would you go after beyond that?

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Sandwolf posted:

Sci/SiV:

Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, it’s not Cena. Who would you go after beyond that?

Well it's thunderdome, so obviously you

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Wow, you all have stuff to do on Saturdays, too? Bougie fucks.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


JC continuing on this completely idiotic course of action is yet another example of his refusing to properly scumhunt, the false dichotomy is not a pro-town move

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Sandwolf posted:

What if I told you I wouldnít vote JC today, Sci?

Iíd have to question why. His posting is actively anti-town and even if you were to claim a power role to clear him, Iíd be more inclined to believe that your result was inaccurate in some way than to believe what I can see in JCís posts.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Sandwolf posted:

Sci/SiV:

Letís just say, for the sake of argument, itís not Cena. Who would you go after beyond that?

Cheese, I am pretty confident he is also scum

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


But it would take A LOT to convince me that JC isnít scum, because holy poo poo itís moved beyond hubris into actively anti-town now, the hammer on Sal really just shows that he is not working for a town win

In my opinion, he has seen that the ridiculous posting is working, it hasnít got him executed so far and is trying to ride it out for a brash scum win

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Retro Futurist posted:

Wow, you all have stuff to do on Saturdays, too? Bougie fucks.

I went to the zoo and out for a curry yesterday, and I didnít think about this game once.

It was GLORIOUS

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


Scientastic posted:

But it would take A LOT to convince me that JC isnít scum, because holy poo poo itís moved beyond hubris into actively anti-town now, the hammer on Sal really just shows that he is not working for a town win

In my opinion, he has seen that the ridiculous posting is working, it hasnít got him executed so far and is trying to ride it out for a brash scum win

except im town.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


sandwolf: i am willing to move THUNDERDOME to mr humalong if you can convince me you're town, provide me with an investigation and your reads of humalong, spacing in vienna, and scientastic. otherwise, die. or kill me. but no other options.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006


spacing in vienna posted:

It's really weird to call the scum doc a masonry???

this is where we see the initial conspiracy against myself and sal begins, my trying to prop up a strategy that hey, we must both be scum and lying about a masonry. this is an overarching theme seen with other posters, despite it being a very unlikely and foolish strategy that anyone who has played more than one mafia game wouldn't be dumb enough to try, and trust me, i'm really dumb.

spacing in vienna posted:

... I like this theory and think Sandwolf is townier for thinking of it.

The novelty of thinking Sandwolf is town is still exciting for me. Maybe I am learning to translate from Wolfspeak into Viennese?!?

this is in response to sandwolfs theory that if im town im actually playing scummy on purpose to...set up a meta for the next time i roll scum, despite sandwolf having played in over 15 games with me and me playing the same in literally every game ever, so its a super lovely theory being floated by him and was part of what made me suspect him, and siv finds this theorizing Pro Town because if you want your partner to live you just say something is pro town, even if its a completely arbitrary word that gets tossed around with no actual defining criteria attached to the posts the term gets linked to.

spacing in vienna posted:

RIGHT SO I just vomit posted hmmm.

Toal also generally gives me "always think they are scum" vibes but their posts today just kind of seem extra forced at it? Not liking it.

Not liking JC taking up the air with the vendettas.

Sal has seemed a bit awkward here and there but I'm not sure it's scummy awkward, I feel like Sal sometimes has his comments misread / jokes mistaken and ends up getting cased for it

It feels weirdly like d1 has been all noise no signal thus far, and I mean I know d1 has a rep that way but it's especially content free even for a d1 I feel like?
i am scummy for taking a vendetta but the truth is i always play with vengeance to motivate me to post its the only way i can breathe. also spacing played in two games with me where it was the same story and just overlooks it and claims its kind of scummy in this one, For Reasons.

its her read of sal though that makes me think, okay, this may be a legitimate perspective here. reading is done on a scale and not in absolutes. i would place spacing at a 80% scumalite reading here.

spacing in vienna posted:

Okay, if you had said you're not casing anyone today, I'd be okay with that.

Not voting today? That's insane. That's saying that if we get to -1, you still won't hammer.

Seeing who pushed for what lunch is a lot of the game. Often townies get lunched on d1, but it's still useful to look at voting patterns, see who dragged their feet, who jumped tracks quickly, who kept saying they would vote so-and-so but when push comes to shove, never did.

You've played in previous mafia games. Have you never voted on d1? And if you have, what's different now?

a bit of an overreaction, but this feels like a fairly innocuous post, and one that prompts tpink to post more. hmm...leaning not scum on this post, reducing scuamlite values at 70%.

spacing in vienna posted:

Sal's right about this: you only walked your position back to "I guess I'd vote to prevent a NL" after you were called out and got some heat for it. Prior to that you said nothing short of a scum slip would convince you.


spacing in vienna posted:

Honestly my current tinfoil theory is that Sal is town, JC is scum, and JC is pushing his theories in mason chat and Sal has bought in.
reads town as sal fairly early on. uses him as a town citing against tpink's behavior. theory postulated is kind of weird though in that it tries to invalidates sal's current opinions and agency. dont like this. 75%.

spacing in vienna posted:

Bifauxnen posted:


btw if I end up dead tomorrow I'm still suss on Sal too and hope y'all who had him as next on your list keep the faith

Also still can't totally shake the "Sandwolf doesn't make this much sense as town" paranoia, but obviously disregard this if Spoonsy flips scum
I wonder if this post got bif killed. Either by Sal-scum forces or by people who wanted to frame Sal.
weird post, further setting up the idea sal might be town, in advance of sal getting voted. doesn't address the FOS on sandwolf at all though that bif made. this direct lack of interaction is what i look for when hunting scum. 85%.

spacing in vienna posted:

Do you have an actual case on sandwolf? You've said that you're suspicious of him, you and Sal both, but the rest of us can't read whatever reasoning you have from your masonry.

this is in response to me voting sandwolf.

spacing in vienna posted:

I think bif hunts scum with the best of them, and that's what got her killed. But it's worth digging into her posts further.

spacing in vienna posted:

Ugh, this is awkward. Again, Sal was correctly pointing out that you changed your opinion after being called out on it. It feels like you desperately want to get on board the Sal lunch, but have to overexplain your reason for voting, because you're self conscious about it.

##vote tpink

votes tpink, which is actually consistent behavior. and i actually like this read. hm..but the above makes things cloudy....75%.

spacing in vienna posted:

I think you took it differently than I meant it. I wasn't saying JC is a dark manipulator and you're an innocent wide eyed child. But when you talk to someone outside the game, their POV starts to influence yours.

You two are very in synch, but curiously reluctant to talk about how or why you got on the same page, or even why you suspect some of the people that you do. When pressed, you insist you haven't talked that much about the game, yet your reads keep aligning. It's odd from an outside perspective. I think we're trying to understand better what's going on.

a noticed pattern here is siv has more than a couple of times has requested me and sal to post about our masonry convos, and then when we post them, people tried to turn us against each other or to suspect eachother, the most egregious example being sandwolf, which take notice, siv seems to go out of her way to avoid interacting with, especially when he does make scummy posts, like trying to tell sal hey, you're supposed to think cena is scum when we obviously have different perspectives on our own masonries.

then

spacing in vienna posted:

Yeah sorry I'm here, I'm reading, I just ... everything got unpleasant and that's making the game difficult.

My desire to vote Cena is tempered by him calling for a thunderdome. I hate the idea and don't want to humor him by voting him, which is childish contrariness on my part.

Sci is making good cases. I've been leaning frustrated town on Sal, but him making cases that involve leaving out context -- RF's reasoning for his vote coming in at EoD, Hum's vote switch being necessitated by not forcing a NL -- makes me waver.

For now ##vote cheese sandwich

we get this. obviously siv cant vote sal, because a narrative has been established that siv thinks sal is pretty town. she also makes it clear she thinks im scum. i call for thunderdome, but she doesnt go with it. why not? in thunderdome you have two options, and if you suspect one for being scum, why wouldn't you chase that option? you've made it clear that you suspect myself, you suspect tpink, but you decide to vote for cheese sandwich based on sci's case...but i think its because if you voted me, with a high number of players still active, my flipping townsided tears apart a narrative that sandwolf and yourself had started to build (which granted you did abandon, but then humalong took it) that myself and sal are both scum feigning a masonry. you already said you townread sal enough so if i flip town, and you had already accused me of poisoning his opinions, you can't turn around and then fos him. you can't afford to vote for me because the information that comes from my flip is far too damning. and guess what it's still true today and i am more than happy to hurk my body in the face of scum. this is why i call for thunderdome.

spacing in vienna posted:

I didn't realize that brought cheese up to tie Sal. Votefinder isn't updating in the OP.

Cheese's no content mess looks bad. I like Sci's case. I like either cheese or JC for scum, but since JC wants thunderdome I don't think we should do it, which I acknowledged was childish. Sorry if I didn't spell that out more explicitly.

this is basically an abbreviated repeat of the above post, with some weird "regret" that voting for cheese ties the vote against sal. if you're voting for cheese why in the world would you care about this? oh wait because you dont want to vote for cheese but you cant vote for sal. so making this post maybe suggests to people "i voted for cheese but wasnt aware it was this many! is there anyone else that other votes can be stacked onto?" is how this reads to me, especially after the fact.

spacing in vienna posted:

Why?

I never thought the masonry was a scum-scum gambit. I thought there was one scum among the two, and it was likely to be JC. Sal flipping town doesn't change that.

JC you've called me scum like three times with absolutely nothing backing it up. Maybe you think if you say it enough times people will mistakenly think you made a case?

now siv is outright lying.

spacing in vienna posted:

It's really weird to call the scum doc a masonry???


the scumdar detects an 85% scumalite read from you. there are posts in here where i can see you being town and the case on tpink is actually not a bad one and i think thats a person who im gonna explore next. but there's a lot of garbage here, and your very light interaction with humalong (your posts are literally all fluff garbage and agreeing with him) and sandwolf (who it feels like you're making a very concerted effort to not see their posts) are what really russel's my feathers. this is why i suspect you, and both sal and i were really tuned into looking into you after you basically said he's some kind of naive child who is easily tricked and influenced.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




"ok I'm keeping my thunderdome with Sandwolf despite never once explaining why I think he's scum, but I'm willing to move to hum without stating why he's scum just as long as Sandwolf makes a case in anyone else.

Anyway here's a giant case in SiV who I'm apparently not willing to vote for"

what?

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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


The one thing I like about internet mafia... that I've come to realize..... is that you can actually win internet arguments sometimes. There's also always a satisfying ending even if it's a tragedy.

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