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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Rarity posted:

These two sentences back to back don't seem legit at all ##vote Sci

Just saw this in preview, and just want to say that you not seeing it and it appearing not make sense to you is a completely separate thing from me seeing the motivation.

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votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 1

Bifauxnen (3): Rarity, Hal Incandenza, Rarity, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, hambeet, Gridlocked
Scientastic (3): Rarity, Rarity, Amnistar, Toalpaz, Rarity
hambeet (2): Asphyxious, Bifauxnen
Rarity (1): Bifauxnen, Bifauxnen, Scientastic, Scientastic, SHALASHASKA HAWKE
Asphyxious (1): Mr. Humalong
DGK2000 (1): b-minus1
Amnistar (1): SHALASHASKA HAWKE, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, Scientastic
b-minus1 (1): Scientastic, Bifauxnen, Scientastic, Rarity, DGK2000, Bifauxnen, Rarity
Gridlocked (0): SHALASHASKA HAWKE, Scientastic, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, Scientastic
Hal Incandenza (0): Bifauxnen, Bifauxnen
t a s t e (0): DGK2000, DGK2000
Toalpaz (0): Scientastic, Scientastic

Not Voting (5): Epsilon Plus, sandnavyguy, Sandwolf, t a s t e, tpink

With 18 alive, it's 10 votes to execute. The current deadline is August 20th, 2020 at 3:32 p.m. AEST -- that's in about 14 hours, 20 minutes.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Scientastic posted:

I'm going to make a start on dinner, I should be able to check in at some point between now and bed, but I won't be around for deadline, as usual.

Wait apparently deadline is 6:30am BST wut

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Scientastic posted:

Just saw this in preview, and just want to say that you not seeing it and it appearing not make sense to you is a completely separate thing from me seeing the motivation.

And on that incredibly arrogant sounding note, I am off to chop my ingredients and listen to the Cure with a glass of wine

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Your case is, I create a conspiracy about you, True, to deflect from acum hunting, False.

I made a brief case on SnG and dropped it, True.

I am diverting attention away from ??? And instead trying to make people focus on hambeet who I ha e called scum, but this is somehow no scum hunting.

I'm glad you decided to case me because it's a bad case and now maybe other people will vote for you.

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



I recognise the vote ending time is something funk-y do we want to extend the day to a standard mafia ending point or not?

Edit: maybe add roughly 20 hours or something (let me know ASAP because im only awake because my large fur son need toilet)

Tommunist fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 19, 2020

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Scientastic posted:

Just saw this in preview, and just want to say that you not seeing it and it appearing not make sense to you is a completely separate thing from me seeing the motivation.

Except you're not making any effort to explain the motivation from a 'dumb scum' perspective

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Alright, so everything happens when Iím asleep I see.

There are 18 people in this game, but the conversation is being dominated by 6-8 people. Thatís a whole lot of lurking/white noise posts.

Regarding bif and hambeet: this feels like a town v town fight to me. Bif is acting like they did as town in the food mafia we were in, and it was effective enough I shot her in the face D1 as scum to eliminate a good town player. Hambeet is posting similarly to before, and he was town as well. They both seem to be actively scum hunting and making cases. I donít like either of them for the vote today, but their posting both seem to be becoming vitriolic so maybe shift gears?

Regarding rarity: Iíve never played with them before, so I donít know the meta, but they seem to be well organized town, as I stated before. They are framing things logically and well, and is probably my only rock solid town read beside Sci at this point

Regarding Amni and Scientastic: so. I know I said earlier that this is town Amniís play style, and that pressure is good, but the problem is Amni is not loosening up when the pressures hitting a wall. Scientastic is acting like righteously frustrated town and not the way they normally do as scum which is sarcastically respond then shift the conversation. I feel like his position is not omgus as much as it is irritation at Amnis technique being at odds with their usual scum hunting. Originally, I thought this was a town slapfight, but Amnis posting is a departure from what theyíve established as a solid scumhunting technique worries me and shifts them into a null leaning scum read. But I might just be leaning too hard on meta for Amni, so maybe their scumhunting isnít as good as I thought, so Iím not quite comfortable to vote on them yet.

TLDR;

Iím concerned that thereís a lot of town slap fights inflating the post count as scum lurkers are sitting back and enjoying the ride.

Epsilon plus, taste, Hal, and sand(hopefully youíre feeling better) what are your reads of the big discussions going on right now?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




That reminds me, I still have a strong suspicion Hal is scum

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



Ok i think ive set it to a more reasonable time except or rarity and sci (im sorry)

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


sandnavyguy posted:

Alright, so everything happens when Iím asleep I see.

There are 18 people in this game, but the conversation is being dominated by 6-8 people. Thatís a whole lot of lurking/white noise posts.

Regarding bif and hambeet: this feels like a town v town fight to me. Bif is acting like they did as town in the food mafia we were in, and it was effective enough I shot her in the face D1 as scum to eliminate a good town player. Hambeet is posting similarly to before, and he was town as well. They both seem to be actively scum hunting and making cases. I donít like either of them for the vote today, but their posting both seem to be becoming vitriolic so maybe shift gears?

Regarding rarity: Iíve never played with them before, so I donít know the meta, but they seem to be well organized town, as I stated before. They are framing things logically and well, and is probably my only rock solid town read beside Sci at this point

Regarding Amni and Scientastic: so. I know I said earlier that this is town Amniís play style, and that pressure is good, but the problem is Amni is not loosening up when the pressures hitting a wall. Scientastic is acting like righteously frustrated town and not the way they normally do as scum which is sarcastically respond then shift the conversation. I feel like his position is not omgus as much as it is irritation at Amnis technique being at odds with their usual scum hunting. Originally, I thought this was a town slapfight, but Amnis posting is a departure from what theyíve established as a solid scumhunting technique worries me and shifts them into a null leaning scum read. But I might just be leaning too hard on meta for Amni, so maybe their scumhunting isnít as good as I thought, so Iím not quite comfortable to vote on them yet.

TLDR;

Iím concerned that thereís a lot of town slap fights inflating the post count as scum lurkers are sitting back and enjoying the ride.

Epsilon plus, taste, Hal, and sand(hopefully youíre feeling better) what are your reads of the big discussions going on right now?

A lot of words for no scum alignment calls...

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Amnistar posted:

A lot of words for no scum alignment calls...

Thatís the thing. I donít think any of you are scum, youíre all seemingly town. With the exception of you as a null read Iím not comfortable calling scum. Why would I make a vote on people I donít think are very scum?

Anyway, I would love to make a scum call, which is why Iím trying to get other people to enter the conversation. Because I think scum is hiding right now, and all the slapfights are making it too easy for them to skate by.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



sandnavyguy posted:

Thatís the thing. I donít think any of you are scum, youíre all seemingly town. With the exception of you as a null read Iím not comfortable calling scum. Why would I make a vote on people I donít think are very scum?

Anyway, I would love to make a scum call, which is why Iím trying to get other people to enter the conversation. Because I think scum is hiding right now, and all the slapfights are making it too easy for them to skate by.

This pings me as SNGís scumplay.

Sorry about being absent Iíve had sadbrains I should be around til deadline.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has seen my browser history.


That Sci case is presented the exact same way he presented cases in the games where he was scum.

DGK, Rarity, and SNG all calling arguments townie slapfights is setting off my radar. SNG going to great lengths to talk about them more so than the other two.

Would vote SNG or Sci today. Going to reread all four of these players.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Sandwolf posted:

This pings me as SNGís scumplay.

Sorry about being absent Iíve had sadbrains I should be around til deadline.

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Awww you guys were just lurking til someone called you out! Anyway! Now that youíre all here, we can actually get some information from yíall.

Hum, I know youíre going to reread, but why does the term town slapfight set you off? Does any one of those people in those conversations read specifically scum to you? And if so why did you wait until I asked for you in order to reread and post about it?

Sand, what about this specifically are you calling my scum play? Because youíve been in several games with me i trust you would know my meta. But since Iím town rn, I want to see where you misread me.

Amni, what is the primary reasoning behind your vote on me?

Taste, when you arrive, whatís your read on the Hambeet bif convo?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


sandnavyguy posted:

Awww you guys were just lurking til someone called you out! Anyway! Now that youíre all here, we can actually get some information from yíall.

Hum, I know youíre going to reread, but why does the term town slapfight set you off? Does any one of those people in those conversations read specifically scum to you? And if so why did you wait until I asked for you in order to reread and post about it?

Sand, what about this specifically are you calling my scum play? Because youíve been in several games with me i trust you would know my meta. But since Iím town rn, I want to see where you misread me.

Amni, what is the primary reasoning behind your vote on me?

Taste, when you arrive, whatís your read on the Hambeet bif convo?

Amnistar posted:

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Okay... thatís an interesting position but sure. So youíre saying that in an 18 body game, where the majority are town, where town is incentivized to apply pressure and not back down, it is scummy to assume two otherwise townie seeming players may indeed be circling eachother to no avail? Because to me the term ďtown slapfightĒ is pretty common sense.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Regardless, at least youíre applying multiple avenues of pressure again.aside from me and Scientastic, are there any other players right now that jump out as scummy to you?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Bif would you read BIRB for me?

SCI what do you think of BIRB?

BIRB is not diamond dogs aligned.

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has seen my browser history.


ďTownie slapfightĒ is a phrase that is used by scum a lot. Itís an easy thing for a scum player to say to look like theyíre paying attention without sticking their neck out too much. For three people to come in and say it on the same page is suspicious. For you to say it about both of the big arguments of today is beyond suspicious. It means you have read all of the posts concerning these arguments and decided that absolutely none of them could have been made with duplicitous intent. That is...incredibly generous.

I think Amni looks like his usual over-eager self fixating on the first thing he can to the detriment of any other possible leads. Him using your stinky poo poo post (no offense please do not cry) to swap off Sci and onto you is mildly concerning, but honestly you just came in and made like six paragraphs of text to say ďI think theyíre all town lolĒ so itís understandable.

Scientastic seems to be playing as I would expect scum Sci to play. This could be meta bias.

Bif and beet are playing to type and I think both of them look worse afterward.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Sand honestly your biggest thing for me is no scumcalls. You have townreads but no pings or suspicions. Youíre calling people out, youíre doing things right, but never actually pushing a candidate of your own here. Thatís the scummy part.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Amnistar posted:

Me too. It's super easy for scum to say "town on town slapfight".

##vote SandNavyGuy

Woah, I thought your vote wasnít moving and you were glad Iíd cased you, so you could get me executed?

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Scientastic posted:

Woah, I thought your vote wasn’t moving and you were glad I’d cased you, so you could get me executed?

Yeah, but SNG's post is like...superbad. and honestly if sng flips scum I'm gonna eat crow and accept your town.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I could vote for SNG, that big post of town reads is completely pointless and makes a big show out of very little scum hunting material

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Amnistar posted:

Yeah, but SNG's post is like...superbad

Agreed

##Vote SNG

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Sandwolf posted:

Sand honestly your biggest thing for me is no scumcalls. You have townreads but no pings or suspicions. Youíre calling people out, youíre doing things right, but never actually pushing a candidate of your own here. Thatís the scummy part.

Thatís fair, though Iíd like to point out Iím trying to get more people involved so I can make a scumcall because, well, I havenít had anything really ping hard. The closest is Amni but Iím still stuck on the fact that them applying pressure and pressure votes was town Amni in the last two games we played. Iím not even that concerned they voted me, itís more Iím puzzled as to why they are choosing to hyper focus instead of scattershot which they usually seem to do. Just like in Cuomo time, I didnít make a decision until Tommu had become so performative as scum that I felt it a slam dunk. Generally I donít vote til near deadline or if I see a big red flag.

If I were to push a case it would be a simple lurker case on taste or even DGK, but that may just be due to time zones or uh, meta in tastes case. But neither of those can be really pushed until people respond, as you and Hum have.


Mr. Humalong posted:

“Townie slapfight” is a phrase that is used by scum a lot. It’s an easy thing for a scum player to say to look like they’re paying attention without sticking their neck out too much. For three people to come in and say it on the same page is suspicious. For you to say it about both of the big arguments of today is beyond suspicious. It means you have read all of the posts concerning these arguments and decided that absolutely none of them could have been made with duplicitous intent. That is...incredibly generous.

I think Amni looks like his usual over-eager self fixating on the first thing he can to the detriment of any other possible leads. Him using your stinky poo poo post (no offense please do not cry) to swap off Sci and onto you is mildly concerning, but honestly you just came in and made like six paragraphs of text to say “I think they’re all town lol” so it’s understandable.

Scientastic seems to be playing as I would expect scum Sci to play. This could be meta bias.

Bif and beet are playing to type and I think both of them look worse afterward.

I get that itís suspicious, but since neither of the interactions are pinging me as scum I didnít have anything really to say, so I figured they are all town. Iím stuck because the alternative is just vote someone I donít think is scum which is, ya know, ludicrous.

I disagree with your Scientastic read, they played similarly in baby mafia, and I think it rings town.

The obvious solution is to drum up more people for more info, and uh, thatís what Iím doing.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Scientastic agreeing with Amnistar, someone he cased heavily, with regards to a mafia newbie's SNG (7 games) post is wack.

Scientastic posted:

OK, Amnistar. His posting can be broadly divided into three parts that I think all have a scummy motivation... I started this based on a gut feeling, and as I looked into his posts in more detail, there is a trend that I see in here that backs that feeling up.

Using this incredibly reaching "smug scum call back" idea to tunnel on me and refuse to move his vote:

This has a scummy motivation because it's easy to stick to and claim that you just got caught up in your own brilliance: if I get executed, when I flip town, he's got plausible deniability to shrug his shoulders and move onto someone else. If I don't get executed, it gives him a chance to continue to shirk real scum hunting in favour of harping on this stupid "scumslip" or whatever he decides to call it. It's stupid, and ignores the fact that I have never done anything of this sort ever as scum.

Whiteknighting Bif:

I think both Bif and Beet are townie in there exchange. The point is that Amni is poking at this argument from the sidelines and driving a "pick a side" narrative. This is scummy because it's not real scumhunting, and it creates a false dichotomy. I would be 100% unsurprised if both bif and beet are town: when I am scum I love it when two townies start targeting each other, because it becomes easy to manipulate the town into executing at least one townie, and I think that's what Amni is doing here. And the really great thing about it is that again, there is plausible deniability to it, and Amni can easily say "who, me?" if two townies get executed.

Fake scumhunting SNG on bullshit:

This is not real scumhunting, Amni is just sort of bullshitting his way around SNG's entry post here. SNG's post was fine, and Amni is mega-reaching, but he can also excuse this mega-reaching (and does so) because it's D1. It has an outward appearance of scumhunting, but really all he's doing is throwing poo poo at the wall, while keeping his vote on me for obsessively dumb reasons.

Bonus fourth strand to the case!

Dumb post ascribing scum motivations to me for voting for him, trying in advance to discredit any point I might have

Come off it. This is just terrible. Pre-emptively calling me out for an OMGUS and simultaneously implying that I have deliberately timed my vote so as not to make it look like a reaction to his incredibly reaching theory that, as far as I can see, has gained no traction and isn't a real threat to me. I think this is actually slightly telling: Amni is projecting a motivation here, because he is aware of how long ago the vote was and how he would dislike having one vote on him. I don't care about his vote on me, it makes no difference to my play.

Scientastic posted:

Agreed

##Vote SNG


Reads like someone who isn't consistent and doesn't care. Maybe casing amni was a scum bus? Dunno.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Maybe thereís... MORE THAN ONE SCUM?!

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Thereís a continuum of confidence with scumreads, it is colossally disingenuous to think that two players who are extremely suspicious of each other canít agree that someone is more scummy

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Scientastic posted:

Maybe thereís... MORE THAN ONE SCUM?!

You'd think that your essay would lead you to believe you are more sure of Amni being scum than SNG. Can you explain to me why you'd vote SNG over Amni, even if they're both scum? In what ways is SNG the best option today?

It doesn't seem to be consistent, because you don't explain it and just hop off your own case.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I donít like Amniís play so far this game, but I respect him enough as a player that if I agree with him on a scumread, Iím not going to pretend I donít see what heís saying because I think he could be scum

What a crazy thing to say

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Scientastic posted:

Thereís a continuum of confidence with scumreads, it is colossally disingenuous to think that two players who are extremely suspicious of each other canít agree that someone is more scummy

You wrote more words about amnistar being scum than SNG, it makes it feel like you think amnistar is more scum reading your case on him than sng. That is why I bring it up. That is the inconsistency when you vote SNG on a single post.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Toalpaz posted:

You'd think that your essay would lead you to believe you are more sure of Amni being scum than SNG. Can you explain to me why you'd vote SNG over Amni, even if they're both scum? In what ways is SNG the best option today?

It doesn't seem to be consistent, because you don't explain it and just hop off your own case.

Did you read SNGís post? It didnít require anywhere near as much reading between the lines, interpretation or deduction, I read it and immediately thought ďthis guyís scumĒ.

With Amni, my gut says heís scum, I went through his posts and tried to understand what my gut was subconsciously seeing and explain it to the thread, working out what motivations and reasoning I could see from a town or scum perspective. Itís complicated and involves a lot more mental work.

My read on SNG is much simpler, and I prefer it.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


##vote Sci

"crazy" "disingenuous"

You suck and you're faking your reads.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Toalpaz posted:

You wrote more words about amnistar being scum than SNG, it makes it feel like you think amnistar is more scum reading your case on him than sng. That is why I bring it up. That is the inconsistency when you vote SNG on a single post.

I donít agree. Maybe if this were later in the game and we had a couple of scum flips, I could see where you were coming from, but for D1, Iíd rather vote for someone who posted an egregious scum post

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


Toalpaz posted:

##vote Sci

"crazy" "disingenuous"

You suck and you're faking your reads.

You are wrong and I donít understand why you are unable to grasp what I think is a pretty basic principle

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before


idk toal im getting strong towny vibes from sci

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




I agree that that Amni/Sci interaction was super loving weird

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tpink
Feb 18, 2013



Melman

Amnistar posted:

Yeah, but SNG's post is like...superbad. and honestly if sng flips scum I'm gonna eat crow and accept your town.

The whole swing from "Sci scumslipped and I'm not backing off it!!" to this is odd.

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