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boo boo bear
Oct 1, 2009


chill and fun, always a pleasant experience.

thanks.

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Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Jupiter Jazz posted:

Do you have more constructive criticism on my posting style? I'd really like to change but don't know how.
I've tried to read it twice and both times I got to the sentence "To understand why I dislike XI you have to understand why I love Dragon Quest to begin with." and my eyes slid down the screen, hit "What is Japanese minimalism?" and bounced off entirely. You wrote an essay. Whether it was a good essay or a bad essay I couldn't say, because I didn't read it. Because I didn't come here to read an essay.

Different styles of writing are suited to different media. A forum thread is a conversation. Posting an essay is like standing up at a party and giving a speech. If it's appropriate to the occasion then people will listen to a short speech at a party. But if you're off-topic or you go on too long, people will stop listening - even if it's a good speech - because you have chosen the wrong time and place. Essays go on blogs or in magazines. Media designed for a single speaker to communicate while an audience listens.

So here's some constructive criticism: Keep it short, to the point, and conversational. Remember where you are.

Rimusutera
Oct 17, 2014


Jupiter Jazz posted:

Do you have more constructive criticism on my posting style? I'd really like to change but don't know how.

I'm not an expert in essay writing or a professional editor or anything so take me with a grain of salt but I think there's two main things I can say you're doing that you can try and avoid:

1- The whole woe is me I'm stating an unpopular opinion is unhealthy and unproductive: its okay to just state what you think is contrarian or against the flow and back it up without that sort've trapping. Its alienating to even people who might actually agree with you or see you as having a point. It sets a really, as others have pointed out, oppositional tone to everything and thus sets things off on a bad foot. I'm labouring the point myself here, but yeah. I think part of what happened 2 Months ago is you did this, other people were dismissive, and that further fueled you perhaps feeling all your responses were dismissive in tone even when they weren't. Its a vicious cycle and no one person is solely responsible for it, though also not the end of the world.

2- I don't think length is inherently the problem and I think its fine to write an essay on a forum -They're not messenger chats, they're web forums and fully suited towards longer form posting from time to time- but there are well written essays and poorly written ones and you can try and cut out a let of repetitive, bloated sentences from your post to get to the points you're making much quicker and with a less condescending tone: one that makes it feel like you're talking down to your audience, as if you're more of professor doing an academic lecture instead of passionately talking about something to your peers.

Examples of some of this that jump out to me: Instead of saying things like "what is japanese minimalism: insert paragraph overexplaining minimalism" you can just say that "Dragon Quest has historically been part of the scene of Japanese Minimalism, which it shared story telling methods such as short minimal cuts scenes and dialogue with other great games like Shadow of the Colossus, and I really miss that about the franchise" to get your point across, and even go into examples of what you mean from DQs history there. Instead of sentences like "now lets turn to x or y" you can just segue with starting a sentence/paragraph with "Game X or Game Y start off with [description of scene] and go into how you feel about that or more details about it" A lot of how you have it written as is feels like its just dragging your essay out in a way that feels like its padding to meet a word count, or fill the full length of the class you're lecturing too, rather than communicate your ideas authentically. There's more examples of stuff I can focus on but I don't have all the time in the world sorry, but I hope this is helpful to some degree.

Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Feb 11, 2021

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4129 days!


Saying that Games is negative or upright always felt more like a dog whistle about the fact that it's a place where you're allowed to talk about feminism and #metoo instead of just grill game but the handful of mock threads that exist solely to poo poo on bad games and platforms years after release feel like they should at least be exiled to CCCC with their brethren who are rapidly approaching spending a decade chortling about the Xbox One's RAM.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

[posting intensifies]


yeah the star cit thread should be exiled. glad we can all finally come together and agree and send it on its way.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com


Lol that posting blew up in this thread in response to someone complaining noone responds to their posts.

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

ROBOT




Outrail posted:

Lol that posting blew up in this thread in response to someone complaining noone responds to their posts.

Which ended with lots of good faith, helpful criticism on said posts! This place is a good place.

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY
Feb 3, 2006



Stux posted:

yeah the star cit thread should be exiled. glad we can all finally come together and agree and send it on its way.

Orv
May 4, 2011


Extremely hosed up when Stux is a voice of reason.

Both effortposting and shitposting can co-exist and often do, since I stopped being quite such an uptight nerd (degrees of margin arguable) I definitely do more shitposting than I used to but I'll still poo poo out unnecessarily wordy bullshit sometimes. Nobodies really here to read a thesis though.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

Peace was never an option.




There was some discussion in the pyf sagas thread about making a new griefing thread, and Video Games said he'd be okay with it. I'd be interested in making sure it doesn't cross any lines this time around, if we can brainstorm some good guidelines for doing that? There's plenty of fun still being had at others' expense without doing gross poo poo.

Obviously no bigotry (unless the bigots are the ones being griefed of course), nothing that comes even close to doxxing, nothing that targets kids.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying.

VideoGames
Aug 18, 2003



*When people tell me
to heal in 'Souls' games*




Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying.

This is what I was thinking. The whole killed lord British anecdote or the space station 13 anecdotes are grieving that is funny and leads to humour.

The mods and I (mostly I because I said I would not mind seeing a thread) will monitor it and be a bit more strict on content and I will not hesitate to remove it should it not contain silly things that people can laugh at.

New Super Metis
Aug 1, 2014




Yeah I wanna see that thread too! I think it would be fun. Making sure that the griefing doesn't amount to harassment is important imo.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010


College Slice

I imagine you'll probably want to have different standards for "found" griefing and "home grown" griefing. Stories of what other people have done can be funny and entertaining even if they're extremely unpleasant for all participants. But that same story may be crossing the line if it's someone bragging about their own actions.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Agreed that Id love to see a new griefing thread. I feel like it might need an IK or something right off the bat to prevent the thread from becoming a bunch of dip shits showing up and going

quote:

LMAO I used an aimbot and killed the entire enemy team in seconds lol what a grief

Straight up cheating isnt funny or griefing.

Thanks for entertaining the idea Mr Video Games

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying.

Agreed.

I used to love reading about funny griefing stories years ago, so I'd be happy to see a new griefing thread. As long as it's creative and funny I'm in.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

Peace was never an option.




Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying.

Absolutely. Reading about angry gamers being hoisted by their own petard because someone did a clever thing is 1000x more interesting than reading about some rear end in a top hat taking a poo poo on their teammates in Dota or whatever in the most uncreative way possible.

Those stories are why the old thread was enjoyable to read, for a while at least.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Maybe call it a trolling thread instead of a griefing thread? I know, splitting hairs, but it'll set a lighter tone. Griefing implies malice.

Wamdoodle
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!



Grimey Drawer

Donnerberg posted:

Maybe call it a trolling thread instead of a griefing thread? I know, splitting hairs, but it'll set a lighter tone. Griefing implies malice.

Trolling sounds like malice as well, imo

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

I canne has csebuf?


Griefing grabs me more because it's so tied to gaming, trolling just makes me think of annoying posters in general.

Donnerberg
Dec 15, 2008



Hell Gem

Fair enough. And I suppose youtubers appropriated 'trolling' to be unfunny stunts.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Pretend I'm just a regular guy posting, but I think it'd work best if it were enforced that the griefing has to be actually be funny, instead of just antagonistic or annoying.
Bit late to the discussion, but I am 100% with Jeffrey on this. The last griefing thread really suffered from the old SA mentality that randomly being an rear end in a top hat to someone is humorous in and of itself. If we can stick to funny internet pranks instead of mean-spiritedness, I wouldn't see a problem with it.

itry
Aug 23, 2019






But how do you divorce griefing from mean-spiritedness?

Cardiovorax posted:

I've heard it said that a good prank is also funny to the person you're pranking.

This sounds good (in theory).

itry fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Apr 1, 2021

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I've heard it said that a good prank is also funny to the person you're pranking. If it makes you think "wow, I'm being kind of an rear end in a top hat right now" at any point, it probably isn't funny.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com


Cardiovorax posted:

I've heard it said that a good prank is also funny to the person you're pranking. If it makes you think "wow, I'm being kind of an rear end in a top hat right now" at any point, it probably isn't funny.

That's true, unless the recipient is a bigger rear end in a top hat and then it swings back to funny again.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Outrail posted:

That's true, unless the recipient is a bigger rear end in a top hat and then it swings back to funny again.
That's true. Let's call that the Chud Exception.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012

Peace was never an option.




Yeah most of the good recent examples of goon griefing I know of have been targeted attacks at open neonazis playing games like Urban Dead, eve, browser nation simulators, etc.

Orv
May 4, 2011


I think there's a pretty obvious line between "loving over obvious shitheads" or "Having fun at someones expense but not being a weird jackass about it" and "Being a dick for no reason" which was a lot of what we got in the old griefing thread, as people have mentioned, where people would come in and pass off not even really griefing but just low effort, fun-for-nobody-but-me trolling or outright cheating as 'fun griefing stories.' That's pretty easy to self-police in a lot of ways and I think the overall Games train of thought is considerably less open to people like that now anyway so it might occasionally need a mod on the trigger but I think it's less likely to suffer from that old problem.

Orv fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Apr 2, 2021

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020


Cardiovorax posted:

I've heard it said that a good prank is also funny to the person you're pranking. If it makes you think "wow, I'm being kind of an rear end in a top hat right now" at any point, it probably isn't funny.

You'd think something called "GRIEFing" would obviously be something not funny to the person you're pranking...

I don't care much either way, but still.

That video of a guy playing tf2 holding his team hostage in spawn until they answered trivia is funny for us but not to the people who were trying to just, you know, play tg2.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Apr 2, 2021

Orv
May 4, 2011


I mean this is already the kind of poo poo that sank the last thread in the end, so maybe not.

HMS Beagle
Feb 13, 2009



I feel at this point any new briefing thread is going to be doomed to being full of constant arguments over whether something belongs in it.

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Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


Harrow posted:

It might stem from an outdated perception of the forum, but outside of Games there's definitely an attitude that the Games forum is where people go to be negative about games. There's a recent QCS thread about the Imp Zone that took the general tone of "Imp Zone is for people who like games, Games is for people who want to complain about them." That's not true, of course, but the perception is still out there.

Going back a bit, but this feels like a natural consequence of a thread following a game way back from when it was announced up to years after release. There's been a bunch of times when I looked up the thread for a game I wanted to discuss and discovered that it was almost universally reviled. Usually because it was marketed as something else before release or it had a really rough release or the devs were assholes or some combination of the three.

So somebody who doesn't follow the thread or news cycle comes into the thread a year later and gets hella confused by burnt out/embittered fans. Not sure if that can be fixed or even needs fixing, but its definitely jarring for folks who don't spend a lot of time browsing /games.

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