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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


If Iím reading the posts correctly, IA feels more confident that DGK is scum than DB, and wants to see DGK flip because he feels it would be more informative, but... isnít voting for DGK?

Is that right, or am I misreading those posts?

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sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



sandnavyguy posted:

Yeah it would be way too costly a gambit.

Since basically that would make LYLO happen a day early with none the wiser, so DB in my mind is a solid town read or a very poorly played scum read, and with at least one scum buddy left I donít think theyíd let him get away with it.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


As I have already said, I donít think a scum DGK double votes to hammer PMush to gain cred, especially when he could gain the same cred by simply waiting to hammer and keeping the double vote for when it could potentially win the entire game.

There is a whiff of WIFOM about this, but in the absence of any mega scum posts (like those weíve seen from the people I think are scum), I donít see that DGK is a good candidate today.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



sandnavyguy posted:

Since basically that would make LYLO happen a day early with none the wiser, so DB in my mind is a solid town read or a very poorly played scum read, and with at least one scum buddy left I don’t think they’d let him get away with it.

I mean DGK. Not DB. dGKs double vote is exonerating.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


RFís defence of pushing against PMushís execution seems to be that his scum meta is different.

This is a bad defence. We should be voting for RF today, he consistently gently pushed back against PMushís execution in a scummy way.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


i agree, but dont want rf to be sitting at -2 this early, since i have roughly the same feeling about db's alignment and would prefer that his self-preservation vote doesnt tip the scales unfairly

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


someone who's not voting a rf/db and is also not me should make an unambiguous decision to vote one of them and i'll most likely follow suit

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


fun question: did anybody trick-or-treat last night? (n2)

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



Mr. Steak posted:

fun question: did anybody trick-or-treat last night? (n2)

Nope! I already got my candy, and I like it just fine.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


i did, and im curious about what happens to candies that get abandoned rather than used. do they get reshuffled into the pot, or is that not how it works?

so if anybody trick-or-treated yesterday i'd be highly interested if you received a rolecop ability. or whether anybody received the same ability on n1 when i received it.


not sure it is useful directly to the game, but i'd like to know for the singular reason of: is hogging a useless item so scum cant roll it a thing thats possible?

just a setup-spec discussion, but seeing as convo is currently dead i figured i'd throw it out there

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


sandnavyguy posted:

Nope! I already got my candy, and I like it just fine.

hey sng while you're here, what are you opinions on rf/db? are either of them noteworthily pinging you more than the other one?

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


oh wait ur voting rf lmao i confused u for the other guy

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



RF seems more scummy to me yeah.

DB isnít as scummy because they were the alt push if pmush didnít get the lunch. I doubt scum would have wanted to split the vote between two of themselves, which makes DB more town in my eyes at least.

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009



sandnavyguy posted:

RF seems more scummy to me yeah.

DB isnít as scummy because they were the alt push if pmush didnít get the lunch. I doubt scum would have wanted to split the vote between two of themselves, which makes DB more town in my eyes at least.

Not sure I get this logic, the fact it was split means there was a large number of town voting for both of them. Scum would surely want to try and push a third candidate like DB did late into the last the day

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015



ObamaAkbar. posted:

Not sure I get this logic, the fact it was split means there was a large number of town voting for both of them. Scum would surely want to try and push a third candidate like DB did late into the last the day

Yeah but by that point one of them going was nearly a forgone conclusion, a late day vote for a non-runner is sus, yes, but itís very blatant. So blatant that I think it might have just been self preservation. Itís not exculpatory, but it gives me pause in combination with the early vote split. I mean, if there are 3-4 scum at that point, and two of them were both on the block, itís up to the other one or two to either make it three people in the running with a new case (if itís early in the day) or earn some town cred by being a mercy lunch and dog piling one of your scum buddies (late day). But DB did neither, and a last second third party vote is too glaring, so I think itís possibly frustrated or misguided town on DBs part.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


i do think it's something worth considering, that db got to -1 shortly before we swung back to pmush.

but its also worth considering that pmush never voted for db, even out of desperation to live. and db never voted her either

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



Mr. Steak posted:

i do think it's something worth considering, that db got to -1 shortly before we swung back to pmush.

but its also worth considering that pmush never voted for db, even out of desperation to live. and db never voted her either

This is a hot point.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


also worth noting is that we ended the day w pmush's execution VERY early, by our standards. i suspect that scum wasn't even worried about being hammered because of town's tendency to chicken out on anything until its 30 minutes til deadline.

tbh if i was scum with pmush and db in that situation i would have recommended my team to play it cool and let town shift away from them naturally. it would have come as a huge shock that town would be willing to hammer someone with 2 days left before deadline. so i doubt scum was doing any sort of coordination at the time

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



Forgive my minecraft brain. I mean... I get double vote is strong for scum and I see how my stuff with dgk could be wrong, just a gut feel based on their earlier behavior, but I will definitely follow the collective town lead while my mafia super sleuth senses recalibrate.

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



Mr. Steak posted:

also worth noting is that we ended the day w pmush's execution VERY early, by our standards. i suspect that scum wasn't even worried about being hammered because of town's tendency to chicken out on anything until its 30 minutes til deadline.

tbh if i was scum with pmush and db in that situation i would have recommended my team to play it cool and let town shift away from them naturally. it would have come as a huge shock that town would be willing to hammer someone with 2 days left before deadline. so i doubt scum was doing any sort of coordination at the time

Unless mush felt their demise was a foregone conclusion and dgk could get pretty superb cred for using that move.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


Idle Amalgam posted:

Unless mush felt their demise was a foregone conclusion and dgk could get pretty superb cred for using that move.

eh, i mean i dont doubt that scum could conceivably have that thought process. though i significantly doubt scum would make that decision. there's the thing thats already been brought up, that double-vote is an extremely powerful ability to hold onto as scum. that power could be given away for a boon, yes, but i really dont think the forecasted cred gain for dgk would have been nearly enough to justify the loss. cred is more meaningful when the action comes across as something you had meaningful agency about, and which had meaningful impact. dgk double-voting after i'd already unvoted with a proclamation that i'd hammer... is neither of those things

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



All fair, all fair.

Just my paranoid suspicion I suppose.

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009



Okay my thoughts at this time are that DGK is likely town based on him wasting a doublevote, no way his scum team would agree to that in my opinion. Nothing Iím seeing in his posting is especially scummy either.

IA is really pinging me with his obsession with getting DGK lunched though, basically ignoring most other posters, not strong town play at all, getting a light scum read on him.

Amnistar is likely town given how early he went after PMush. Sci giving me trying town vibes as well given his strong case against PMush yesterday when the vote was still tied.

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009



Also Iíd like to point out that IA was another poster that basically avoided commenting or voting on the PMush lunch

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009



Idle Amalgam posted:

I still would, you havent done much.

Was wrong about mush. I'm as bad at this game as I ever was.

Idle Amalgam posted:

Eh, my takes were garbage. First game back in a half a year or so and it shows.

I mean I stand by what I said about DB, true to my meta... I always support a manic underdog and give them too much credit. Hence not voting steak d1 or mush d2. But also d2 was rapid and day ended while working.

DB seems good to me. DGK could still possibly be scum imo. In fact I feel strongly about it, but /shrug... I'm the same poo poo posting slacker I've always been. What do I know?

*bird sounds*

I'm out.

Idle Amalgam posted:

Forgive my minecraft brain. I mean... I get double vote is strong for scum and I see how my stuff with dgk could be wrong, just a gut feel based on their earlier behavior, but I will definitely follow the collective town lead while my mafia super sleuth senses recalibrate.

Idle Amalgam posted:

All fair, all fair.

Just my paranoid suspicion I suppose.

Also a lot of wishy washy posts implying their takes shouldnít be taken too seriously

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



Yep, yep. Sounds on point for my standard game play. That much hasnt changed... gross.

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



However, you dont give me enough credit. It's not for lack of trying. I just always have and always will see this thing differently. I can at least admit that it is me being hung up on dgk for contextual reasons that may no longer be valid.

I've made a strong case for db across game days, I feel, and then naturally had my suspicion shift.

I was just wrong about Mush and I wasnt alone there.

Also the day ended fairly quickly. So it wasnt unwillingness more than it was game play time coincided with irl obligations and was over before I was even really a participant in that day.

I had made some hipshot commentary but wasnt sold on mush for scum. I'll admit it.

I think it is a bit egregious for anyone to wholeheartedly pat themselves on the back for lunching mush too.

While your head may have been in the right place, it was not so open and shut that "not voting" for them should serve as condemnation.

Anyhow... I gotta let work siphon my soul energy for a while now.

Rise up, fellow goons!

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


##vote Obama

I don't agree with either the RF or DB cases, personally. Gonna stick with my read here. Obama feels like scum.

Also, I appologize for my lack of participation, real life has been busy.

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


Amnistar posted:

##vote Obama

I don't agree with either the RF or DB cases, personally. Gonna stick with my read here. Obama feels like scum.

Also, I appologize for my lack of participation, real life has been busy.

if you are town then youre doing your darndest to be not helpful

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


db and rf both have compelling cases for them. the case on oa is just a huge shrug.

and why exactly do you not see the cases on db and rf?

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


as for why i think oa is towny enough to disregard today:

pmush pretty transparently tried to get me lunched and oa was probably the most vocal person outside of scientastic to attack her for that push. i think a scum team would be more cooperative w each other's plans? lol

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.


Mr. Steak posted:

db and rf both have compelling cases for them. the case on oa is just a huge shrug.

and why exactly do you not see the cases on db and rf?

You think they're compelling, I don't.


Mr. Steak posted:

as for why i think oa is towny enough to disregard today:

pmush pretty transparently tried to get me lunched and oa was probably the most vocal person outside of scientastic to attack her for that push. i think a scum team would be more cooperative w each other's plans? lol

Yes, because as we all know scum never take different approaches to executions so that there is someone on both sides of a town flip making it harder to find connections...

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


here is pmush when db had 5 votes and pmush had 3. (out of 7 to execute)

PMush Perfect posted:

Still angry, getting some thoughts down then probably coming back tomorrow to look at them again.

Stand by my Steak vote. Not sure if Amni is being obtuse (which is very in character) or playing it up as scum. Slightly leaning scum, I think, but IDK. What does that make the DB thing? A soft bus that got more traction than he expected? IDK, still not sure on DB myself. Cooling on my Sandwolf vote a bit, but not by much. More of an "I need to reread" kind of feel now. Liking SNG as town, still got a strong town read on Sci, null on IA and RF, and I can definitely see the OA case, wouldn't object to voting them.

PMush Perfect posted:

##unvote

Actually, yeah, these recent posts are making me feel better about SW, he's engaged and asking pertinent questions.

her next post at all came nearly 12 hours later when she was at -1 and she had essentially given up.

PMush Perfect posted:

Good morning, I'm at -1 and I dislike all of you right now.

PMush Perfect posted:

Scum, please hammer me. I hope you like licorice.

PMush Perfect posted:

Eh, gently caress being coy. I got lynchbomb licorice last night.



now that we know pmush was scum and therefore trying to prevent herself from being the lunch target, why wouldn't she have made up a plausible reason to vote db and give herself a chance? she was clearly willing to pull out all the stops and lie about being a lunchbomb to survive, so why did she never vote for a person who had a remote chance of getting lunched?

because the only other viable option was db. i say the scum team decided db had a more valuable power and decided to hedge their bets on pmush dying rather than put up a fake fight and risk losing db's power instead.

##vote db

Mr. Steak
May 8, 2013

T.T.D.D.T.D.D

Thug lyfe.


btw pmush didnt flip with any candy, while the nightkills did. my conclusion from that is pmush performed the kill on n1. therefore she would have been the only scum without a candy ability

Idle Amalgam
Mar 7, 2008



Mr. Steak posted:

btw pmush didnt flip with any candy, while the nightkills did. my conclusion from that is pmush performed the kill on n1. therefore she would have been the only scum without a candy ability

Very nice

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





Well clearly nobody is interested in going after SNG today, and there's no discussion so no point in prolonging the day. I'm switching to ##vote Dick Bastardly.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I am really struggling woth seeing DB as scum, there are so many scummy players pushing against the PMsuh lunch onto DB, it just doesnít make sense.

DBís posting is bad, but the wider context just doesnít make sense to me

I would much rather vote SNG if the RF execution isnít getting any traction, I think both of them are better calls than DB

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.


I think Iím trying to put words on a gut read, I just canít shake the feeling that scum DB and scum Pmush doesnít work

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009



You earlier said that you read DB as scum so a bit confused that you are now stepping away from him now that he is -1?

I donít see any problem with a DB PMush scum team, given that PMush was obviously vanilla scum itís conceivable that the decision was made to push her over DB like steak suggested

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Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Yeah sci, I see what you're saying but I think you need to look at the timing of everything, it adds all the context

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