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Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





Oh good, I just realised you can vote on one match-up without actually voting on the other, and it will still process. Useful for anyone who wishes to abstain for any reason.

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MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





I watch Time of the Wolf

Zombi: Fulci fun on an island of zombies. I see others here were to fond of its weird ill-condtructed madness, but never mind them. There's shark v zombie, maggots falling out of zombies, Fulcis eye trauma signature, and a whip rear end soundtrack. It's good y'all, roll with it, let it wash over you with its clearly knock off approach. Be goofy. Though the shark scene as "fun" as it is, does have some ethical problems with the shark being fed then heavily tranqd so they could use a real one and filmed without Fulci's approval. At least they didn't kill it, looking at you Mako: Jaws of Death.


Time of the Wolf: I came into it ready to hate it. Hanekes always come off as a guy a bit full of himself with his approach to "intelligent" cinematic violence. Honestly though, I really enjoyed this misery. Its not as relentless as I expected, giving you moments of human decency that are all too real while calling out that the misery of man is largely caused by the few vs the many. Theres a lot of comraderie to appreciate even though it's quickly buried by the next unspeakable act of violence and selfishness. Theres beauty in it, in the dream that we can be saved. Something I can appreciate given current events. That said, dude shows an actual horse being killed. And while it was filmed at a slaughterhouse, it's still just an unnecessary addition in a movie that's bleak enough.


I'm going Fulci here.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

How many horses have died in movies so far for this challenge? Three, if we count Carne? Or just two?

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





Too many, and honestly I hope that turns around because I can only imagine it turning away more casual participants of this venture

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



"French directors love killing horses" is like the last theme I expected to develop from this.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



About 18 36 hours left to vote. Not a panicky statement, just a friendly reminder. I'll lock up the vote and post the new round at 3AM EST Jan 29th, or whenever I wake up after that.

edit: me good at math.

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 27, 2021

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Only Haneke left to watch. A matchup that will either kill another Italian horror director or one of my teams, at least not at the same time this round.
Wuxia Horror will rise to the top!

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

If Fulci loses in the first round I'm gonna tell Kvlt! on you all.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment



Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

If Fulci loses in the first round I'm gonna tell Kvlt! on you all.

It's their fault for not voting.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Franchescanado posted:

It's their fault for not voting.

If it's a 1 vote margin then yea I'm gonna go rub it in Kvlt!'s face in the horror thread.

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





I'm very comfortable with Fulci losing, and not just because this is one of his weaker efforts. I think most of us a very familiar with Fulci's oeuvre, and it would be interesting to dive into more lesser-known, lesser appreciated directors. I don't need to watch The Beyond again to know I love it. That said I also abstained from that particular match-up

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Its why I pushed for the "no cherry picking" full filmography pools. Yes, it puts the prolific directors at a disadvantage and lessens the chance that one of them will win. But like... I was the one making a stink about that last year but I made peace with it and everyone loved watching the big names fall and I think its more fun to see deep cuts than old familiars.

Although in this case Fulci got his #1 most popular film on Letterboxd so like... if he loses he ain't got no one to blame.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

I get that this is mostly about watching new and interesting stuff but I also want to see my faves make it to the later rounds.

Also Fulci made a lot of movies, so it's not like the Gates of Hell trilogy is the only stuff left he has to draw. I'd love to see people's reviews of A Cat in the Brain, for instance.

STAC Goat posted:

Although in this case Fulci got his #1 most popular film on Letterboxd so like... if he loses he ain't got no one to blame.

Yea I mentioned before how it's just a weird situation with Fulci. Zombi is the film he's most widely known for, but I find it hard to believe that anyone who really goes through his filmography would consider Zombi to even be in his top 3.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 27, 2021

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





Italian horror tournament next time.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Just wait until Wes and Carpenter fall and I'll be crying and mad at myself.

Tarnop
Nov 25, 2013

Pull me out



Bracketology XXV: This time it's just John Carpenter

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Charles Band defs Carpenter to face that guy who made the Bad Ben movies.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Bad Ben 1 is good

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



STAC Goat posted:

"French directors love killing horses" is like the last theme I expected to develop from this.

Haneke's Austrian but maybe working in French is what drove him to do it.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Zombi
According to my notes I had previously seen 6 Fulci movie, and I found none of them any good except for the sort of very uncharacteristic Black Cat. This one, well, it’s no good either, but it also has the odds severely stacked against it by being a zombie movie, a genre that’s completely dead to me. I liked the shark, the crab and I suppose the make up/sfx? Fulci zombies are always gross in a way that few others with more expensive makeup are not. Eye destruction was good, soundtrack was good. That’s all there is to the movie sadly, it’s just kind of slow and I really don’t care. When it comes to Fulci and zombies, I enjoyed City of The Living Dead much more.


Time of The Wolf
Now here’s a perspective on an apocalypse that you don’t see often. Instead of a rugged group of survivors fighting against the odds, it’s a diverse group of people just trying to get by. There’s not really much happening in the movie, mostly individuak scenes of misery or hope and no clear resolution, but moving away from a classic plot structure was probably the point. I didn’t think this was as bleak as it could have been, and the ultimate outlook of it is positive – we are social creatures and by banding together we become better as a whole. I have to say though, it did feel a bit sterile – not that I want to see the filth of living cramped together in a refugee camp, but I don’t think it is depicted well. Fulci does filth much better.
Of course the movie is more interested in the mental and personal than the strictly physical, and scenes like the old couple sharing milk did make me feel, and that’s what I want from a good movie.
So this is an easy vote for Team Haneke.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Not that I support eating horses(or cows for that matter) or want to watch them killed, but I did read an article about Hour of the Wolf that said the horse's killing was filmed in an actual slaughterhouse. And horse meat has been popular in some places at various points in time so maybe the horse was going to be killed and eaten anyway?

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Basebf555 posted:

Not that I support eating horses(or cows for that matter) or want to watch them killed, but I did read an article about Hour of the Wolf that said the horse's killing was filmed in an actual slaughterhouse. And horse meat has been popular in some places at various points in time so maybe the horse was going to be killed and eaten anyway?

It's been discussed a lot with the horror crowd, and basically comes down to three general standpoints, all of which I can understand:

I)Those who abstain from meat entirely and find any killing of animals objectionable.
II) Those who eat meat but find it distateful to show the killing for the purpose of art or entertainment.
III) Those who eat meat and think that seeing the deaths on film is ok under specific circumstances (filmed in slaughterhouse or somesuch)

I think everyone is unanimous in the opinion that cruel killings are taboo, but of course there's a sliding scale of what counts as cruel to who.

Makes me think of Wake In Fright, which probably has the worst case of real animal death on film that I've ever seen. Ooof

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





married but discreet posted:

I)Those who abstain from meat entirely and find any killing of animals objectionable.

This is certainly the camp I fall into. I don't rank culinary entertainment any differently from cinematic entertainment in regards to animal cruelty, in fact the meat industry is a far worse offender. I don't believe at all that animals should die, be abused, or maltreated for our entertainment, in way, shape, or form. If it's within our power to reduce the amount of harm and suffering in the world, we should always, wherever possible and practicable, endeavour to do so.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I don't object to the eating of horses. We should eat less meat and kill less animals, but I do eat meat and I'm certainly a work in progress if not a hypocrite on this matter.

As I've said I just don't think these slaughters provide anything to the film besides shock value. Noe and Haneke weren't making films about meat consumption or animal cruelty or hypocrisy. This scenes exist in their films purely because the directors know they will garner strong reactions. And I just don't need to see that and don't respect it at all as a filmmaking device. Anyone can shock people through shocking images. Making it work as part of a bigger story with purpose is hard. Noe and Haneke didn't even attempt to do that the way that like Singapore Sling arguably does.

married but discreet
May 7, 2005




Taco Defender

Speaking of shock value, how do stand when it comes to fake animal death? Is that any different from fake human death, which we all clearly enjoy? When you don't know if the animal death is real or not while watching, are you more viscerally shocked than when a human dies, since you know for sure the human is fine? If you know in advance that a real animal is killed, there's no real shock to it, right? But if you have to look it up and it turns up that yes, a real animal is dead, are you retroactively shocked?

Personally I hate it when the cat dies even though I know it's fake.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I'm not desensitized to people dying, even you know, fakely. Its probably why I don't get much from slashers or splatter/gore films. I mean I don't recoil at every death in a horror film, but its not something I especially enjoy most of the time. And if you kill a kid and a dog I probably feel worse about the kid.

Like I just watched dark comedy monster horror that had like half a dozen deaths. And the first 3-4 are all assholes who kind of "deserve it" so I wasn't upset or anything. But then in the last act it gets worse and a good person gets killed and I genuinely felt a bit sad. But in the end they all served story purpose and built the plot so none of it bothers me outside the experience. And the film wanted me to care about that good person dying. It was a key turning point of the film's story. So I think I had the appropriate response.

But I definitely don't enjoy faked animal deaths either. I think I kind of see them similarly. If it serves some kind of story purpose or feels "earned" I'm ok with it. If it feels gratuitous and cheap it lowers my opinion of the film. If it feels especially meanspirited or gross it turns me off. And if it feels like it was cruel or degrading to the actor or animal then I actively am mad.

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





I'm fine with fake animal deaths, and fake animal gore. The kennel scene in The Thing is one of the reasons I love horror, for instance. The cat in Re-Animator is also a notable animal death that is absolutely wonderful. Gore and death can be very entertaining, but the whole point about cinema surely is that it's fake, is that there's the separation, that willful suspension of disbelief. It doesn't need to be and shouldn't be real.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Ok, time’s up! 19 votes this week matches our previous high so we’re still popular! Lets see who our first official eliminations/advancements of the tournament are!


Something of a surprise? Maybe? Despite taking a lot of criticism and heat Fulci’s signature film still moves into the second round with a solid win. In the end Haneke’s dystopia piece had its fans but just not enough to ever really threaten the favored director/film. Gotta think Fulci might have been in trouble against a bigger film. But the Austrian Oscar Winners take a first round elimination and one of the Italian Masters of Horror maybe dodges a worse matchup and lives to fight another day.


In much less of a surprise Deb’s favorite film delivers to the crowd and cleans up the field leaving Cohen’s cozy but underwhelming tv pilot never really standing a chance. Cohen made it to the Sweet 16 last year before falling to the eventual winner Ken Russell but he didn’t get the draw he needed to make another run this year. So Nikos Nikolaidis propels Queer as in gently caress You into a second round clash with Lucio Fulci and in the first two matchups of the 2021 Tournament we break tradition and both higher seeds advance. Is it a new day for Spook-A-Doodle Club? Or did we just rank all the weird stuff higher this time?


Lets see what we’ve got to finish off our first month of bracket action.

4. (Franchescanado’s Femme Fatale) Claire Denis’ Trouble Every Day vs. 13. (STAC Goat’s Team “More 👏 Women 👏 Directors”) The Soska Sisters’ Rabid


Oh God, another french film! Trouble Every Day has actually been on my watchlist for awhile but man, do I need a break from the misery. Rabid’s not super light either but the Soska Sisters definitely have a different approach and made a remake that is very much its own thing, Still, do thy have a chance against a critical darling? Am I a little disappointed that 2 of the 4 women’s teams drew each other first round? Yeah, I am. But in truth my team really was just one i threw together with women I had left so whatcha gonna do? I could easily vote against both my teams this week. Should be interesting to see what the ladies bring. Hopefully no horse slaughters.

Availability:
Trouble Every Day
Rabid


5. (STAC Goat’s Team Grindhouse) Robert Rodriguez’s The Faculty vs. 12. (TrixRabbi’s Spoof Comedy) Ivan Reitman’s Ghostbusters II


Ghostbusters II is the first test of that “default to originals if sequels are drawn” rule but since it proved so polarizing in the vote I just decided not to do it. That rule was largely meant for something like Bad Ben 7 but I don't think any situations like that made the pool. But Ghostbusters is one movie that most of us have probably seen and if you haven’t it shouldn’t be too hard to track down. And there’s a pretty obvious quality difference between it and its sequel so redrawing there felt really big. Although I’m actually personally a fan of Ghostbusters II. Meanwhile The Faculty is either a charming b artifact from another era or an incredibly dated dumb Hollywood horror. I don’t know. Fun Fact, when I was working on an indy horror film our director made us watch The Faculty as his example of exactly what he didn’t want the film to be. But he was an rear end in a top hat who lied to us about having a distribution deal and ran off in the middle of the night after months of pre-production work to appear in an episode of Law & Order, so who knows? But I’m not bitter…

Availability:
The Faculty
Ghostbusters II

And in case you need it:
Ghostbusters

I got a little lost there. Unresolved poo poo. Deb will probably be streaming as always because she’s amazing. Voting is open until 3 AM EST Feb 5th, or when I wake up after that. Have fun.

Vote!

Bracket & Noms Spreadsheet
Letterboxd List

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Well that's a relief.

For this weeks matchups, I think The Faculty is gonna be somewhat like Bones where people will be pleasantly surprised by how well it holds up. The cast is actually pretty stacked, and it delivers some pretty cool stuff in the final act so I think there's a good chance I'll end up voting for it. I want to do a rewatch before I decide though, because I do really like Ghostbusters II as well.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Thoughts on the three films I've seen:

Saw Trouble Every Day fairly recently so it's pretty fresh in my head. A deeply sad and absolutely vicious film. Hard watch. Vincent Gallo was never utilized better as an actor. One of the more artistically successful New French Extremity films I've seen, and maybe my favorite by Claire Denis, although it's so unpleasant that it's hard to imagine watching again. Basically a horror movie about being unable to help yourself or the ones you love, visualized in the most graphically upsetting terms.

The Faculty is still really fun! Feels unlike any other Robert Rodriguez movie, quippy '90s teen horror movie feels so outside his lane but he totally makes it work. Kevin Williamson is the good Joss Whedon.

Ghostbusters II is pretty bad but like, I'll watch it again.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





Hell yeah, go Fulci!

Faculty v GB2 is such an easy call for me. Faculty all the way. Not gunna rewatch GB2 but I'll rewatch Faculty.

Haven't seen the other 2.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

I spent way too much on a Ghostbusters combo steelbook a few years ago so you're drat right I'm gonna rewatch GB2.

Actually I think that steelbook might be the most valuable "piece" in my collection because I think it's out of print.

Debbie Does Dagon
Jul 8, 2005





STAC Goat posted:

Deb will probably be streaming as always because she's amazing.

Of course

Week 5 Bracketology Streams!
Only on the CineD Discord

All times are in EST, and may not reflect reality.



Saturday, January 30th

1900 Ghostbuster II
2100 The Faculty



Monday, February 1st

1900 Trouble Every Day
2100 Rabid (2019)

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I remember liking Ghostbusters II. Its obviously not the original but its got the same charm and cast and a lot of memorable elements. So I'm definitely rewatching that. Plus its an excuse to rewatch Ghostbusters.

Plus like I'm cool with The Faculty but its hardly a slam dunk for me that means the other guy shouldn't try. Its a light and easy week for me if the french don't do too big of a number on me.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Well the main criticism of GB 2 is that it's too much of a rehash of the original(guys are all off doing their own thing, they are brought together by circumstances and (re)open the Ghostbusters, Dana brings them a case, and it turns out the case involves a whole bunch of spiritual energy being concentrated in one place, the guys have to stop it from exploding like a frog on a hot plate, roll credits).

So watching them both back to back might actually hurt your opinion of GB 2 because the similarities will stand out a lot more.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





I've softened on the GB movies over time. Loved them as a kid, but find them pretty meh these days.

Watched The Faculty this morning and thoroughly enjoyed it. Great cast, good script, kick rear end creature design, and a fun 90s music selection. Though there's a subplot with Josh Hartnett and Famke Janssen that's a little high brow raising.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Basebf555 posted:

Well the main criticism of GB 2 is that it's too much of a rehash of the original(guys are all off doing their own thing, they are brought together by circumstances and (re)open the Ghostbusters, Dana brings them a case, and it turns out the case involves a whole bunch of spiritual energy being concentrated in one place, the guys have to stop it from exploding like a frog on a hot plate, roll credits).

So watching them both back to back might actually hurt your opinion of GB 2 because the similarities will stand out a lot more.

But how can I watch Ghostbusters II and NOT watch Ghostbusters? Its... not... right...

Ideally I'll put some distance between them but I'm definitely a "seconds" kind of guy. So we'll see. Its not really a big deal either way because its finally a case of movies I've (a) seen, (b) own, and (c) feel good about just popping on whenever.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005

Nosferatu Enthusiast
@shrecknet



The really neat trick Ghostbusters pulls is that, in every "ancient evil awakens and must be defeated in the modern day" story ever, it's always 'we have to find the Sumerian fertility idol and banish the monster using the age-old techniques thought lost to time' and in GB they straight-up refute that. There is no appeal to tradition or history, no reactionary "send a maniac to catch a maniac," just 'we invented this new technology using science, and we're gonna do an experiment and cross the streams and gently caress you, ancient demon, your rear end is busted'

That doesn't quite play out the same way in GB2, though it still doesn't go full appeal to tradition. Anyway that's my analysis of why Ghostbusters, a movie not even in this round, loving owns.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Gonna make some enemies today: Ghostbusters is just eh and Ghostbuster II is bad. I realize this is my team I submitted, and I do think they have a role in this tournament and deserve to compete. But, like, 2 in particular is fairly dull, unfunny and poorly paced.

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

When you're 5 years old, Winston busting down that door to save Ray and Egon when the darkroom fire starts is like the coolest thing you've ever seen. Winston was always the GB that I wanted to be. No nonsense, and totally ready at all times to bust the hell out of some ghosts.

Anyway I can rewatch GB2 just for that scene alone.

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