|
Achmed Jones posted:sure they do. but everything humans touch has that from engineering disciplines to musical scales to how species are named. dogma is a cognitive shortcut to end inquiry and can be applied to any bit of knowledge so one has to accept that the person conveying the dogma is divinely mandated, usually indirectly (many times over). in the end, it’s not for me, which i guess is really all that can be said about the whole thing.
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Oct 3, 2023 14:30 |
|
|
President Beep posted:so one has to accept that the person conveying the dogma is divinely mandated, usually indirectly (many times over). that's not true. someone having some good tips on eliminating suffering or reaching enlightenment isn't at all the same thing as divine mandate. it's not all that different from taking advice from experts in other fields it's ok to just not want to gently caress with the whole thing of course. but there's a difference between not knowing about something and knowing about it and specifically rejecting it, you know?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
i guess I wouldn’t consider tips as dogma
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:46
|
|
|
but that might be getting back to the whole abrahamic/eastern religion difference thing again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:47
|
|
|
oh if by dogma you mean like literal word of god type stuff, my bad i misunderstood. i just meant poo poo that people accept uncritically and that usually has a certain level of being "common sense" (that is, almost unable to be questioned) within the community
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:51
|
|
|
what's enlightenment though, is it mystical in nature, do i have to revere people who have attained this status, such as one might revere a prophet
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:54
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:oh if by dogma you mean like literal word of god type stuff, my bad i misunderstood. i just meant poo poo that people accept uncritically and that usually has a certain level of being "common sense" (that is, almost unable to be questioned) within the community yeah, that’s more what i was referring to. again, given my admittedly limited scope of experience organized religion to me means “god said do this like this or you’re wrong.” a decentralized belief system that looks to certain people for guidance on their own journey is something very different to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:55
|
|
|
DELETE CASCADE posted:what's enlightenment though, is it mystical in nature, do i have to revere people who have attained this status, such as one might revere a prophet i think what achmed jones said makes sense. it’s more like seeing what they’ve achieved (or claim to have achieved) and wanting to replicate their success.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 03:57
|
|
|
i dont mean to paint too rosy of a picture for buddhism -there's definitely stuff you really do have to believe (or at least not specifically reject) to sensibly call yourself a buddhist. like, buddhism encourages people to test the hypotheses and not to believe stuff just cause somebody said it and all that sort of stuff which is great, but it's also kind of accepted that you'll land on "ohhhh there is no permanent and unchanging self" eventually. to my mind that's just saying that there are facts about the world (i just think it's a fact that there is no permanent and unchanging self, and have since before i considered myself buddhist) but there's still, idk, lines you kinda ought to color inside of i guess? people aren't gonna try to guilt you or w/e (it's not a sin to not understand, it's not a moral problem if you're wrong about something), but theres still a received metaphysics and stuff
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:13
|
|
|
yeah what you said is right beep, with the caveat that claiming enlightenment isn't really done too much. it's more a "closer to the goal than me so i'll believe them" than "they went and did it, hot drat!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:15
|
|
|
i've decided if i ever become religious again i'm going to hang with reconstruction judaism. they're like the unitarians for jews, everybody's super chill, it's queer/lefty friendly, you don't even have to believe there's a big being in the sky that looks like a bearded guy
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:21
|
|
|
yeah they're p chill
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:23
|
|
|
if i ever get religious i feel like I’d start with some basic cosmology that resonated with me somehow and then start gathering spiritual building blocks from there. it’d be personal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
i ve never been particularly religious. my dad went to Catholic school where they beat it into him and right back out by the end. im not sure what he believes, he's into some fringe stuff but isn't really adamant about any of it. my mom occasionally says she wishes she took us to church growing up but she never goes herself and doesn't really have any reason for thinking that other than having a somewhat positive view of religion in general. im glad I was raised without a religion though, i went to church a few times with a friend and was weirded out enough by the people there that I didn't go back. Spiritually isn't my thing I guess
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:33
|
|
|
yeah tbh that's how i ended up with buddhism. it was very much a "oh cool this religion says a bunch of poo poo i already thought was true". like the rebirth stuff isn't really my thing but that's generally not too problematic figure out the metaphysics first and go from there imo
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:35
|
|
|
i read about reaching nirvana a few months back because I never really knew what it was and it seemed pretty interesting. correct me if I'm wrong because I pretty much just read a few Google results but it seems like the point is to ascend from life and stop the cycle of reincarnation to just do nothing at all? is that correct? sounds like a cool goal even if I don't really buy into reincarnation stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:39
|
|
|
yeah but it's only secondarily about reincarnation (which isn't a great term for metaphysical reasons but unimportant for present purposes). primary point of nirvana is cessation of suffering. the whole rebirth thing is let's say a problem for me and it's not too bad to work around but the goal is to end suffering
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:42
|
|
|
is it that life is inherently suffering, so by reaching nirvana you stop the cycle of rebirth and living another life? do you recommend any entry level books on the subject
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:44
|
|
|
thinking back to my comparative religion class isn’t “existence is suffering” one of the five noble truths?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:i've decided if i ever become religious again i'm going to hang with reconstruction judaism. they're like the unitarians for jews, everybody's super chill, it's queer/lefty friendly, you don't even have to believe there's a big being in the sky that looks like a bearded guy most flavors of judaism are pretty chill tbh. if you have some observant jewish friends i recommend going to a purim celebration sometime and eating great food and getting mega drunk and listening to the rabbi's daughter brag about big uncircumcised goy dicks
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
check out this dude if you’re interested in jewish mysticism and whatnot. awesome stuff: https://youtube.com/c/ESOTERICAchannel
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:50
|
|
|
I don't have any irl friends really let alone jewish ones, but that does sound fun
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:50
|
|
|
yeah that's p much it. for me (not others, this is how i deal with something that makes no sense to me, not what other people think) i lean hard on the lack of self to understand "rebirth" as something like the consequences of my actions after i'm gone. i want to be the sort of person that causes no suffering to others which "eliminates rebirth". that's kinda fast and loose but is the general gist. e: sorry i don't know of anything specifically on rebirth. i'm sure there's stuff out there both contemporary and some translation of a commentary on a thing but i got nothin really other than my own harebrained bullshit coupled with more generic stuff Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Sep 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:57
|
|
|
President Beep posted:thinking back to my comparative religion class isn’t “existence is suffering” one of the five noble truths? #1 of 4 baby
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:58
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:I don't have any irl friends really let alone jewish ones, but that does sound fun well then let's talk on the radio or smth
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:59
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:#1 of 4 baby lol. makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:59
|
|
|
religion is this hosed up mix of useful life advice, tradition, ritual, community, music, art, and all sorts of other good poo poo, combined with a bunch of problematic claims about the nature of the universe, supernatural entities, life after death, books you have to trust, people you have to listen to... so i guess it's impossible to say if it's bad or not
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 06:09
|
|
|
i like the 2/3 of the old testament that's either a genealogy record or a desert nomad health code
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 06:37
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/jasonisbell/status/1432929778085019653?s=21
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 06:39
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:i like the 2/3 of the old testament that's either a genealogy record or a desert nomad health code the book of Numbers is literally just a receipt for the sacrifices various tribes brought to the temple
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 07:00
|
|
|
"loving whatever you do, do not gently caress with shellfish. we have not yet invented refrigeration technology and you live too far from the beach"
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 07:11
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/whataweekhuh/status/1433019804508585991
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 13:03
|
|
|
I hear ya, cap
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 13:33
|
|
|
whenever i find out someone is really religious i always view it as a disappointment, especially if they're followers of an abrahamic sect. i have to sit and think about how they're going to act, especially if they view themselves as liberal but never bother standing up against other members of their in-group. mostly i just try to avoid those sorts
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 14:19
|
|
|
ty for your service
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
this is all i need to say about religion: https://twitter.com/dril/status/1432871650106609670?s=21
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
also ty aj for your considered thoughts. did not think i'd be reading them here in response to an anti-churchie tweet but that's what makes life fun i don't really have a response to them i am able to share here and now. except that: when i was coming up anytime religion was bandied about it was usually a buddhist or buddhism enthusiast who would say "it's not a religion it's a Philosophy". funny how things have changed
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:i've decided if i ever become religious again i'm going to hang with reconstruction judaism. they're like the unitarians for jews, everybody's super chill, it's queer/lefty friendly, you don't even have to believe there's a big being in the sky that looks like a bearded guy i hadn't heard of them but i'm liking the general approach. i like a belief system that's open to challenges from its believers and encourages active discussion
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Kenny Logins posted:also ty aj for your considered thoughts. did not think i'd be reading them here in response to an anti-churchie tweet but that's what makes life fun wish youd change your posts!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Oct 3, 2023 14:30 |
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:i've decided if i ever become religious again i'm going to hang with reconstruction judaism. they're like the unitarians for jews, everybody's super chill, it's queer/lefty friendly, you don't even have to believe there's a big being in the sky that looks like a bearded guy the church/temple/whatever community can actually be really nice and i totally get the people that are like "I'm not really religious but i just like going to church"
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 18:28
|
|
