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Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

Evil is really good and their other show The Good Fight is also going to the Paramount streaming service. I think CBS is trying to keep the husband/wife team happy.

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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
https://twitter.com/JeremyMonjo/status/1394405012147621889?s=19

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
lmao ah yes, Tina Fey’s classic problematic past

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
The funny thing about the article is that it's basically about how Liz Lemon wasn't a girlboss.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Ugly In The Morning posted:

This does nothing to dissuade me from the idea that Harmon is the insufferable half of the Rick and Morty formula.

Dude, I watched all of Solar opposites and my biggest takeaway was wow, Justin is the stronger part by far

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

by Azathoth
Pillbug

Milo and POTUS posted:

Dude, I watched all of Solar opposites and my biggest takeaway was wow, Justin is the stronger part by far

Extremely :same:

Play Trover Saves the Universe if you haven’t, whenever he gets to do sci fi comedy stuff without Harmon it’s gold.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
Yeah but Roiland hangs out with people like Pewdiepie and Elon Musk so he’s also a dickhead

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Musk showing up in Rick & Morty and them making a bunch of really lame Elon Tusk jokes is definitely the nadir of that show (so far)

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

There’s an alien making a “why doesn’t everyone speak English” joke in the first season of that show, do you think that was ad-libbed or written?

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

I think you guys are too deontological in your TV opinions sometimes.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

I got a word of the day calendar.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
Community is better than Rick and Morty anyway

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010

Lurdiak posted:

Is this a dig at The Wire, because if you think The Wire is copaganda I feel like you've not actually watched it.

pentyne posted:

the entire point of The Wire is that the policing system is completely broken and crime solving is practically an unintended side effect hth
The Wire is absolutely copaganda and the entire point is that individual cops can’t be held responsible for the system and when individual cops are at fault the you have to trust the system.

When Freddie Gray was murdered by Baltimore police, David Simon told rioters to go home.

gently caress The Wire.



Edit for clarification: The Wire exists in the West Wing universe.

Slamhound fucked around with this message at 14:05 on May 18, 2021

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Manichean that's another word of hte day

zoux fucked around with this message at 13:58 on May 18, 2021

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Slamhound posted:

The Wire is absolutely copaganda and the entire point is that individual cops can’t be held responsible for the system and when individual cops are at fault the you have to trust the system.

When Freddie Gray was murdered by Baltimore police, David Simon told rioters to go home.

gently caress The Wire.



Edit for clarification: The Wire exists in the West Wing universe.

I have no idea how you can watch that show and think that at any point it says that you have to trust the system

Edit: I think there's a conversation to be had about whether or not it's interested in any kind of solution, and whether or not every cop inside the system is culpable, but comparing it to the West Wing is way off the mark.

Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 14:11 on May 18, 2021

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Slamhound posted:

The Wire is absolutely copaganda and the entire point is that individual cops can’t be held responsible for the system and when individual cops are at fault the you have to trust the system.

When Freddie Gray was murdered by Baltimore police, David Simon told rioters to go home.

gently caress The Wire.

An unbelievably horrible take. One of the worst I’ve seen in this subforum

David Simon should stop tweeting though

swickles
Aug 21, 2006

I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know

zoux posted:

I got a word of the day calendar.

Good, philosophy words (for lack of a better description) are useful.

I like Rick and Morty, I love Community, and I will give a chance to anything associated with Harmon or Roiland. Sometimes terrible people make good shows.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

The great thing about living in the Age of Content is that if a creator is lovely, you can just watch something else. Not that you have to, but there's enough very good stuff out there that missing out on a show or two if you choose not to support a problematic artist isn't actually a big deal. Don't want to watch The Nevers? There's a bunch of decent shows with fairly similar premises! Don't want to watch Rick & Morty? There's a bunch of decent shows with fairly similar premises! It doesn't always apply, but more or less it's pretty easy to just fill the hole with something else.

Lurdiak
Feb 25, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Escobarbarian posted:

David Simon should stop tweeting though

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

feedmyleg posted:

The great thing about living in the Age of Content is that if a creator is lovely, you can just watch something else. Not that you have to, but there's enough very good stuff out there that missing out on a show or two if you choose not to support a problematic artist isn't actually a big deal. Don't want to watch The Nevers? There's a bunch of decent shows with fairly similar premises! Don't want to watch Rick & Morty? There's a bunch of decent shows with fairly similar premises! It doesn't always apply, but more or less it's pretty easy to just fill the hole with something else.

Every single show every made has some piece of poo poo working on it, it's insane to conduct full ethical background checks on cast and crews before you allow yourself to watch a show. I don't even get what the point is, besides some kind of modern religious self-mortification.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020

by Pragmatica

zoux posted:

Every single show every made has some piece of poo poo working on it, it's insane to conduct full ethical background checks on cast and crews before you allow yourself to watch a show. I don't even get what the point is, besides some kind of modern religious self-mortification.

People like to feel as though they have some measure of control over the world.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Everyone has their own lines concerning lovely people making good media.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010

Hakkesshu posted:

I have no idea how you can watch that show and think that at any point it says that you have to trust the system

Edit: I think there's a conversation to be had about whether or not it's interested in any kind of solution, and whether or not every cop inside the system is culpable, but comparing it to the West Wing is way off the mark.
The cops are the system. How does that escape you? Does every cop have to be culpable before they’re considered bad?

Blaming “The System” is exactly how the cops who are the system excuse their murderous behavior.

I’m glad you realize The West Wing is poo poo, but it is absolutely in the same universe.

Escobarbarian posted:

An unbelievably horrible take. One of the worst I’ve seen in this subforum

David Simon should stop tweeting though
Why should he stop tweeting?

Has he said something that would show that he’s part of the very system he claims to oppose?

Like maybe telling the people of Baltimore that they should stop objecting to the murderous cops who murder black people? Like telling people they should go home instead of objecting to when a bunch of cops murder a guy in a nickel ride?

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

Escobarbarian posted:

Community is better than Rick and Morty anyway

I mean, some of Community is better than Rick and Morty. I recently rewatched the series and drat it’s even more up and down than I remember. Enough that the end of the third season and most of the fourth season are about equally terrible.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Oven Wrangler

Hawkperson posted:

I mean, some of Community is better than Rick and Morty. I recently rewatched the series and drat it’s even more up and down than I remember. Enough that the end of the third season and most of the fourth season are about equally terrible.

:hmmno:

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Any episode of Community with Chevy Chase is canceled.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.

zoux posted:

Every single show every made has some piece of poo poo working on it, it's insane to conduct full ethical background checks on cast and crews before you allow yourself to watch a show. I don't even get what the point is, besides some kind of modern religious self-mortification.

To me it's different when it's the creator that's the shithead, because their POV is so inherent to the output. I don't want to watch Woody Allen's movies because they're all expressions of his views on life and I have no interest in what he thinks about romance. I don't want to watch Joss Whedon's stuff because it's all expressions about his views on strong women and I have no interest in what he thinks about feminism. Like I said, you don't have to choose not to engage with that stuff, but if you do choose not to you'll very likely have other options that fit the bill.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

feedmyleg posted:

To me it's different when it's the creator that's the shithead, because their POV is so inherent to the output. I don't want to watch Woody Allen's movies because they're all expressions of his views on life and I have no interest in what he thinks about romance. I don't want to watch Joss Whedon's stuff because it's all expressions about his views on strong women and I have no interest in what he thinks about feminism. Like I said, you don't have to choose not to engage with that stuff, but if you do choose not to you'll very likely have other options that fit the bill.

Fair enough.

Simone Magus
Sep 29, 2020

by Pragmatica
It's an easy call to make because Woody Allen movies are all terrible

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Slamhound posted:

The cops are the system. How does that escape you? Does every cop have to be culpable before they’re considered bad?

Blaming “The System” is exactly how the cops who are the system excuse their murderous behavior.

I’m glad you realize The West Wing is poo poo, but it is absolutely in the same universe.

I'm not gonna argue about politics with you in this TVIV thread, but the show does not depict the system as anything less than completely busted, nor does it excuse the actions of any bad actors in there - the cops aren't the system, they are one part of it, and any good intentions in there are constantly quashed by how busted everything is, to the point where one of the main characters has to invent a serial killer to get anyone to care about actual murders. It's also worth noting the clear distinction between homicide detectives and beat cops, which is also something that is a core part of showing how busted the system is. No, it doesn't really suggest that abolition should be the ultimate goal, but calling it copaganda is absurd.

Nothing is solved by giving an impassioned speech and appealing to intelligence like what constantly happens in West Wing.

Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 15:33 on May 18, 2021

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Simone Magus posted:

It's an easy call to make because Woody Allen movies are all terrible

Yes, the better example in that area is maybe Roman Polanski?

Anyway, it probably is true that there's some awful people working on everything of any real scale. I don't know what we do about that other then figure out where our personal line is.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010

Hakkesshu posted:

I'm not gonna argue about politics with you in this TVIV thread, but the show does not depict the system as anything less than completely busted, nor does it excuse the actions of any bad actors in there - the cops aren't the system, they are one part of it, and any good intentions in there are constantly quashed by how busted everything is, to the point where one of the main characters has to invent a serial killer to get anyone to care about actual murders. It's also worth noting the clear distinction between homicide detectives and beat cops, which is also something that is a core part of showing how busted the system is. No, it doesn't really suggest that abolition should be the ultimate goal, but calling it copaganda is absurd.

Nothing is solved by giving an impassioned speech and appealing to intelligence like what constantly happens in West Wing.
Not wanting to argue about politics while taking about The Wire is absolute bullshit.

Claiming that The System is busted is a major feature of copaganda. It allows individual cops to do “whatever it takes” to get the job done. Things like inventing a serial killer. But it’s not their fault, it’s The System.

Differentiating between detectives and beat cops is another sleight-of-hand that allows you to both blames cops and absolve cops. Which of them is The System? Whichever one you want. Why would a clear distinction between the two even matter unless you’re trying to show that one of them is busted?

And as far as impassioned West Wing speeches is concerned, Hamsterdam is the liberal embodiment of “Let’s try this so long as it proves that we shouldn’t have tried this.”

An impassioned speech that comes to nothing.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
This is what Simon said in the middle of rioting over Freddie Gray's death

quote:

But now — in this moment — the anger and the selfishness and the brutality of those claiming the right to violence in Freddie Gray’s name needs to cease. There was real power and potential in the peaceful protests that spoke in Mr. Gray’s name initially, and there was real unity at his homegoing today. But this, now, in the streets, is an affront to that man’s memory and a dimunition of the absolute moral lesson that underlies his unnecessary death.

If you can’t seek redress and demand reform without a brick in your hand, you risk losing this moment for all of us in Baltimore. Turn around. Go home. Please.

This was also echoed by Gray's family by the way. So gently caress them too I guess. Essentially the point is that riots are used for justification to not give people what they're asking for.

https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1141552995563462656?s=19

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Slamhound posted:


And as far as impassioned West Wing speeches is concerned, Hamsterdam is the liberal embodiment of “Let’s try this so long as it proves that we shouldn’t have tried this.”


Hamsterdam is presented as an alternative to War on Drugs policing, and it gets shut down despite showing good results because of PR. You have actually seen the Wire yes?

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Slamhound posted:

Not wanting to argue about politics while taking about The Wire is absolute bullshit.

Claiming that The System is busted is a major feature of copaganda. It allows individual cops to do “whatever it takes” to get the job done. Things like inventing a serial killer. But it’s not their fault, it’s The System.

Differentiating between detectives and beat cops is another sleight-of-hand that allows you to both blames cops and absolve cops. Which of them is The System? Whichever one you want. Why would a clear distinction between the two even matter unless you’re trying to show that one of them is busted?

And as far as impassioned West Wing speeches is concerned, Hamsterdam is the liberal embodiment of “Let’s try this so long as it proves that we shouldn’t have tried this.”

An impassioned speech that comes to nothing.

????

How does it absolve anyone? I just said they are a part of the system, but the point is that all the different groups don't have the same agency within it. There are people trying to make it better, but they can't - is your point is that every single character should be portrayed as a murderous racist just because they are police? No one does whatever it takes to get the job done because the job isn't loving done by the end of that series. Hamsterdam doesn't fail because it's a bad idea, it fails because the system doesn't allow for its existence.

You are extremely good at making it seem as if you have not watched this show at all.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer

Slamhound posted:

Claiming that The System is busted is a major feature of copaganda. It allows individual cops to do “whatever it takes” to get the job done. Things like inventing a serial killer. But it’s not their fault, it’s The System.

Have you ever actually watched the show, or just read recaps of it? Cos this interpretation makes sense if you only read a story outline, but not if you actually watched the episodes

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
hahaha we’re all on the same wavelength here

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Uh, McNulty should’ve went to jail for the poo poo he pulled with the serial killer stuff, and the show never denies this.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Let's talk about some serious crimes against humanity


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EGVP-CZPWs

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Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




ruddiger posted:

Uh, McNulty should’ve went to jail for the poo poo he pulled with the serial killer stuff, and the show never denies this.

It also shows that McNulty's actions caused real harm as it inspired someone to commit real murders. McNulty "doing whatever it takes" is 100% presented as bad a thing.

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