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J-Spot
May 7, 2002

Spalec posted:

Why were real bullets anywhere on the set at all?

It's a classic Hitman trick. What you need to do is distract the prop master by turning on a radio. When he comes over to investigate you bash his head in with a wrench, hide his body and disguise yourself with his clothes. Then you can swap the prop gun out with a real one and the rest of the crew is none the wiser.

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dorium
Nov 5, 2009

If it gets in your eyes
Just look into mine
Just look into dreams
and you'll be alright
I'll be alright




Spalec posted:

Why were real bullets anywhere on the set at all?

probably for close-ups and texture shots.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Oven Wrangler
Hearsay from reading responses to this, but apparently recoil is absolutely trivial for an actor to just fake themselves and adding muzzle flashes in post is the easiest thing in the world, so using blanks isn't even "necessary" anymore.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Arist posted:

Hearsay from reading responses to this, but apparently recoil is absolutely trivial for an actor to just fake themselves and adding muzzle flashes in post is the easiest thing in the world, so using blanks isn't even "necessary" anymore.

Also if you ask anyone who knows what they're talking about to watch scenes of shootouts, they'll think of a hundred things that are done completely inaccurately anyway so it doesn't even matter.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



Arist posted:

Hearsay from reading responses to this, but apparently recoil is absolutely trivial for an actor to just fake themselves and adding muzzle flashes in post is the easiest thing in the world, so using blanks isn't even "necessary" anymore.

It's probably still cheaper to just use blanks. :capitalism:

isaboo
Nov 11, 2002

Muay Buok
ขอให้โชคดี
Remember Jon-Erik Hexum of the 80s Voyagers! and Cover Up shows?

Fired a .44 magnum blank into his own head, Russian roulette style. :(

E: on the set of Cover Up, because he was impatient and was joking round

isaboo fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Oct 22, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


dorium posted:

probably for close-ups and texture shots.

Which again, shouldn't be necessary anymore. They change out the entire sky in post if it's not exactly what they want, they can texture map and add CGI bullets into the chamber of a revolver in post that are convincing enough for the blink and you'll miss it shot that shows the ammunition.

They have cigarette smoke added in post now so actors don't have to smoke IRL because it's bad for them and those they are working around, yet for some reason they still handle props that are lethal weapons.

Chubby Henparty
Aug 13, 2007


God I loved Voyagers. I have a memory of the afternoon kids tv presenter straight up describing what happened, and that the show was therfore over, which seems pretty hardcore or inappropriate from this side. Wonder if my child would get into it, hope so.

AARD VARKMAN
May 17, 1993

I'm on to season 2 of Chuck and I'm glad Morgan's hair isn't a nightmare helmet anymore and also Bryce Larkin can eat my entire rear end

theflyingexecutive
Apr 22, 2007

Real bullet or not, none of this explains why Baldwin was pointing a gun at the DP/director with his finger on the trigger. Even if (big if), the nonunion propmaster said it was a solid plug or not loaded*, you absolutely never do that and Baldwin has done enough movies with guns to know that.

*itís the Old West, so revolvers are very very easy to verify if theyíre loaded.

Also, itís very very easy to tell blanks apart from bullets when itís being loaded. Iím not a prop or an armorer, but blanks simply donít have the bullet in the casing, theyíre crimped at the end.

theflyingexecutive fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 22, 2021

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."
That's a tragedy.

All of this talk about replacing practical gun effects with post-processing always makes me think of those god awful TWD shots like:





feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
So what? It's not like car chases in movies use realistic physics. Or fight scenes. Or anything. Who cares if a gun doesn't have recoil? It's adjacent to tactical realism nitpicking.

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."
Eh, I mean, it's not that it's unrealistic...it's that it doesn't really have any physics at all, I would say. It's more like a Fast and Furious car chase where the drivers are just sort of sitting straight up in their seats while they take hairpin turns at 60 mph, or a fist fight where people are getting "punched" and providing zero feedback, you know?

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Eh, I mean, it's not that it's unrealistic...it's that it doesn't really have any physics at all, I would say. It's more like a Fast and Furious car chase where the drivers are just sort of sitting straight up in their seats while they take hairpin turns at 60 mph, or a fist fight where people are getting "punched" and providing zero feedback, you know?

They dragged that safe around without their cars being split in two. Inertia works differently in the FF universe.

TV Zombie
Sep 6, 2011

Burying all the trauma from past nights
Burying my anger in the past

https://twitter.com/variety/status/1451586574982975491?s=21

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

oh jay posted:

They dragged that safe around without their cars being split in two. Inertia works differently in the FF universe.

The last movie where Tyrese keeps saying "how are we not dead? How is this possible?" is hilarious, like at this point his character has become self-aware that he's become a superhero in a series of movies and is not real.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Oh poo poo, he was the Bishop on Evil.

lexxyth
Jan 21, 2015

dorium posted:

probably for close-ups and texture shots.

So a goon on the last page who works in the industry explained it pretty well:

theflyingexecutive posted:

Prop guns fall into a couple categories:
-resin: basically when a gun is in a holster and stays there or a bg is carrying it decently far from camera, they'll use a resin aka "rubber" gun
-solid plug: a gun with a plug in the barrel to prevent anything from coming out. This is for principals/stunts to wield when you want to see the gun in close up and it doesn't fire. It can fire and cycle the chamber without ammo, but there's no recoil nor smoke. A lot of network tv will use solid plugs for firing weapons because it's cheaper, easier, and safer.
-blank gun: basically a real gun with slight modification to fire blanks. Blank ammo has the actual bullet removed and the ends of the shells are crimped. The hemmed will strike the ammo, which will generate a good amount of recoil and smoke (generally a quarter load of gunpowder or a half if you're really fancy and not in a major city). These are treated as real guns with real gun rules because the casings can splinter or other debris can get lodged in the barrel and the real gunpowder will turn that shrapnel into a functional bullet, which is what happened to Brandon Lee.

What is supposed to happen is the first AD, and by extension, all the ADs and PAs on set, is required to call out what kind of gun is being used for that particular shot or rehearsal so that everyone knows what safety precautions to take. There is absolutely no reason to give an actor a firing blank gun (and loaded!) for rehearsal. If the actor wants to test out the firing of the blank gun, they would do it in a special (and called out!) test fire under the auspices of the stunt coordinator, armorer/propmaster, first assistant director, and the local cops if they're not too busy scarfing crafty, these same personnel are also on deck when any firing blank gun is used for a shot.

My guess is that an assistant prop/armorer handed the principal the blank gun instead of the solid plug for rehearsal (they would necessarily look and feel identical to nearly everyone) and they were sloppy with their protocols because it's a movie where everyone has guns all the time.

tl;dr: While blanks are safe, parts of the shell can get dislodged in the gun and then those parts can get shot like a real bullet with the next blank. Blanks are generally handled like real guns in terms of safety, so somebody hosed up.

Apparently this is also how Brandon Lee was shot, itís a popular myth that a real bullet was loaded in the gun.

edit: reports are popping up that the prop master was some cheap non-union guy and there was actually a live round in the gun.

lexxyth fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Oct 22, 2021

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Honestly, that’s part of the greater gun culture problem in the US. I mean, for fucks sake, there’s an internet movie firearms database and there 10 season wikis of Stargate loving SG-1 outlining every appearance of a weapon with screenshots. I get that there are enthusiasts with everything and if i tried hard enough i could find a wiki on the use of ornamental bath tubs on screen, but the fetishization of weapons in media is extreme and bathtubs typically don’t kill actors and crew members while filming. I love it when i’m looking at trivia for a movie on imdb and there’s 3 paragraphs in there giving the full history of a prop that someone just thought looked cool to modify and put in a movie.

You could have a firearm show up in LOTR and the predominant conversation around it wouldn’t be the anachronism, it would be about what it was based on and what modifications were done and would that really be effective against a balrog and how impractical that other thing would be for the environment they are traveling in.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Oct 22, 2021

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
https://twitter.com/IndieWire/status/1451539334142779396?s=20

https://twitter.com/eoinhiggins_/status/1451602141018263564?s=21

Looking more and more like someone was playing with a real gun while hiring scabs because the union workers quit over safety protocols...

This is a horrible and completely preventable tragedy.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
Hereís the deleted post, which is now being reported by LA Times:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


The Brandon Lee situation is sad because there were so many places where it could have been stopped if they actually had/followed safety protocols. First with the incorrectly disarmed bullet that still had an intact primer. When the gun was unloaded someone should have noticed that one of the cartridges was missing the bullet and then when they went to fire the blanks someone definitely should have checked the gun to make sure there were no obstructions in the barrel.

OldSenileGuy
Mar 13, 2001

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

That's a tragedy.

All of this talk about replacing practical gun effects with post-processing always makes me think of those god awful TWD shots like:







I would gladly take all on-screen guns firing like this if it meant eliminating the use of CGI gunshot wounds/blood and going back to actual squibs.

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

OldSenileGuy posted:

I would gladly take all on-screen guns firing like this if it meant eliminating the use of CGI gunshot wounds/blood and going back to actual squibs.

Whaaaaaaaaat you don't like this?

https://imgur.com/1Z5c13u

(I'm linking it because goofy blood effects are involved and aren't probably SFW)

Ignis
Mar 31, 2011

I take it you don't want my autograph, then.



https://twitter.com/whowhatnow56/status/1451608655397224451?t=aZm1gm855Z6X-Htnyozyyg&s=19

So whoever they had for the armorer was bad at their jobs

Paracaidas
Sep 24, 2016
Consistently Tedious!

Aardvark! posted:

I'm on to season 2 of Chuck and I'm glad Morgan's hair isn't a nightmare helmet anymore and also Bryce Larkin can eat my entire rear end
Well I'm thankful that Bryce Larkin is dead and is not currently in my bedroom making out with my new girlfriend

And also Morgan's new hair.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

Paracaidas posted:

Well I'm thankful that Bryce Larkin is dead and is not currently in my bedroom making out with my new girlfriend

And also Morgan's new hair.

Now Im definitely rewatching Chuck for Thanksgiving.

theflyingexecutive
Apr 22, 2007

OldSenileGuy posted:

I would gladly take all on-screen guns firing like this if it meant eliminating the use of CGI gunshot wounds/blood and going back to actual squibs.

Here's a fun unwritten studio S&P rule: special effects squib loads with blood packets (blood hits) are a mandatory R/TV-MA rating, special effects squib loads with powder (dust hits) with visual effects (cgi) blood can be PG-13/TV-14 however. Also every take with squibs takes at least twenty minutes to reset (more with blood hits) and a lot of non-stunt principals won't use them because they're literally mini explosives, so plenty of cheaper productions will opt for all visual effects for bullet impact/blood spray.

Remember that the most expensive resource a production has is their most famous actor's time between other gigs (unless you're the half script page a day blockbuster), so production will do anything that saves their on-set time.

OnlyBans
Sep 21, 2021

by sebmojo

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

That's a tragedy.

All of this talk about replacing practical gun effects with post-processing always makes me think of those god awful TWD shots like:







Unless you are a gun nut no one gives a poo poo. It looks fine.

isaboo
Nov 11, 2002

Muay Buok
ขอให้โชคดี
I think it just dropped today, but has anyone checked out Inside Job on Netflix?

Created by the guy who did Gravity Falls

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

theflyingexecutive posted:

Here's a fun unwritten studio S&P rule: special effects squib loads with blood packets (blood hits) are a mandatory R/TV-MA rating, special effects squib loads with powder (dust hits) with visual effects (cgi) blood can be PG-13/TV-14 however.

Interesting, any particular reason for the disparity in ratings? Is it because of how fake the CGI effects can look by comparison? That's the only thing that I can think of, but I'm not even sure that would make sense.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer

isaboo posted:

I think it just dropped today, but has anyone checked out Inside Job on Netflix?

Created by the guy who did Gravity Falls

I believe the creator was only a writer on GF, with Alex Hirsch as an exec producer. Saw some reviews that seemed pretty middling.

Cael
Feb 2, 2004

I get this funky high on the yellow sun.

I read the responses and itís good information which makes sense but that will not stop me from agreeing with

OldSenileGuy posted:

I would gladly take all on-screen guns firing like this if it meant eliminating the use of CGI gunshot wounds/blood and going back to actual squibs.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Interesting, any particular reason for the disparity in ratings? Is it because of how fake the CGI effects can look by comparison? That's the only thing that I can think of, but I'm not even sure that would make sense.

I'm going to guess there's a minimum velocity for a squib to work and that explosion produces a more violent blood effect than some minimal CGI splatter. Basically you can tailor make the CGI blood shot wound to have less of a visceral impact.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Oven Wrangler
I'd assume that the presence of "real" blood is grounds for TV-MA/R ratings not necessarily because it looks realer (though it does) but because it's not a post-production effect, it's a part of the scene itself.

Sekhmnet
Jan 22, 2019


Cream-of-Plenty posted:

Interesting, any particular reason for the disparity in ratings? Is it because of how fake the CGI effects can look by comparison? That's the only thing that I can think of, but I'm not even sure that would make sense.

Reminds me of how "Taxi Driver" had to de-saturate the color a bit during the final shootout scene so all the blood didn't earn it an X rating.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
https://twitter.com/colliderfrosty/status/1451340736914341888?t=wYuAeHO16samQCmiERGvtg&s=19

TaurusTorus
Mar 27, 2010

Grab the bullshit by the horns

isaboo posted:

I think it just dropped today, but has anyone checked out Inside Job on Netflix?

Created by the guy who did Gravity Falls

I binged it. It is solidly okay, the background jokes are good though.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)
So Invasion on ATV+ is pretty drat good.

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duck monster
Dec 15, 2004

Matt Zerella posted:

So Invasion on ATV+ is pretty drat good.

I'm a bit torn on this one. The Cinematography , direction, writing, and acting are all top notch. Everything on paper says this is a great show.

But I'm bored. Its pacing is so glacially slow, it almost feels like this things just a bunch of snapshots in the days of the lives of people in the end-times. Three episodes of almost nothing happening except some weird poo poo.

I guess I'll have to hold out and see where this goes. But slow starts kill series dead. People complain that the Expanse starts too slow so they never followed through to realise the world of amazing TV at the end of that "slow" start up, but poo poo, *lots* of things happen in those first few episode. This? Its just sad people and weird things. Maybe it'll pick up steam and start being a story, but its sabotaged itself hard with this slow as treacle pacing.

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