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Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?
I mean "ready to vote" and "voting" are two very different things?

Opinions can change. It's just that I don't understand why sandwolf's changed, considering he's been sus of SNG consistently all day right up until now when he's in actual danger of being lunched.

THAT is bothering me. Like wording is partly important here, "I'm not sus =/ I'm longer sus", but also the timing and lack of explanation as to why.

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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Retro Futurist posted:

And yet I'm not even voting him, so the entire basis for your thing here doesn't work.

oh my god you started this IRL day by telling us you would vote for him if it did not end the day

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

sandnavyguy posted:

perhaps the reason for the no hammer is that both scum are already on it? Or, in the more likely scenario, in a game this small by not hammering it drives home that I ďmustĒ be scum and thus when I finally am hammered and flip town it will cast suspicion on those already voting.

My point is just because Iím not hammered yet doesnít mean Iím scum, and to say so is blatantly ignoring these possibilities.

Okay, so who out me, amni and Sub rosa are the two scum then and why?

Like don't just put that out there, tell us who's the most likely scum there.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Yami, go loving read through Amni and tell me if that makes you think heís town. I canít scumhunt someone with less than 4-5 real posts. Thatís why his laying low is scummy after he helped the D1 turbo.

Yami, I AM pointing at all the scummy things RF is doing here but you have already decided Iím scum because I donít want to hammer SNG.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Yami Fenrir posted:

Okay, so who out me, amni and Sub rosa are the two scum then and why?

Like don't just put that out there, tell us who's the most likely scum there.

I want an answer to this too SNG

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Sandwolf posted:

Yami, go loving read through Amni and tell me if that makes you think heís town. I canít scumhunt someone with less than 4-5 real posts. Thatís why his laying low is scummy after he helped the D1 turbo.

Yami, I AM pointing at all the scummy things RF is doing here but you have already decided Iím scum because I donít want to hammer SNG.

No, I'm saying you're scum because you're saying one thing and doing another thing.

I'm also not voting you right now, but SNG, so why are you horndogging me so hard on that?

I want SNG flipped. The circumstances are way too suspect for me not to. If SNG is town then yes, I was wrong and am wrong about you, because you would have just been seriously unlucky regarding what I see as scummy timings and opinion changes.

However if SNG is scum you are almost confirmed to also be scum.

sandnavyguy
Sep 12, 2015

Yami Fenrir posted:

Okay, so who out me, amni and Sub rosa are the two scum then and why?

Like don't just put that out there, tell us who's the most likely scum there.

Okay, I listed that as a low possibility, and in the same paragraph you decided not to apparently skim, I said more likely scum is waiting to hammer so when I flip it makes us ask the exact question youíre asking.


sandnavyguy posted:

perhaps the reason for the no hammer is that both scum are already on it? Or, in the more likely scenario, in a game this small by not hammering it drives home that I “must” be scum and thus when I finally am hammered and flip town it will cast suspicion on those already voting.

My point is just because I’m not hammered yet doesn’t mean I’m scum, and to say so is blatantly ignoring these possibilities.

Bonding for emphasis.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Sandwolf posted:

Rosa, can you gimme some perspective on this moment?

From my perspective, you are my strongest town read, Yami is my second. I lean town on RF, that's sort of the one place I think we aren't reading the game the same way.

I do think Amni is scum, and as I've already posted, I am not going to think Amni is any townier for voting sng if sng flips scum, which I think he will.

My read on you didn't change when you backed off your suspicion of sng because I also had that internal moment of having to decide if my read on sng needed to change because of Amni voting there, but I decided it didn't. But that also is why I got why your read did, because you think there are two scummy people signalling they will vote there.

This is also pretty much why you are my strongest town read. Just like all the other games I've played, we end up having about 90% shared viewpoint on the game.

I'd ask you to reconsider the playing field if you presume RF is town. I think if you do you will also come to thinking Amni/sng could be the scum team.

Also, Yami should be expected to have Amni as a blind spot, and I don't particularly think it's weird for Yami to tunnel on you as sng's teammate instead.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


SNG who are the damned scum

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Amni is to Yami as SNG is to Sandypants

This is the only law of SA Mafia.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Sandwolf posted:

Yami, go loving read through Amni and tell me if that makes you think heís town. I canít scumhunt someone with less than 4-5 real posts. Thatís why his laying low is scummy after he helped the D1 turbo.

Yami, I AM pointing at all the scummy things RF is doing here but you have already decided Iím scum because I donít want to hammer SNG.

Okay Sub Rosa may have a point regarding the Amni blindspot but I legit don't see it, and I have read him before and again now.

I really think he's playing pretty much exactly like he did in pinball, where he was town in a masonry with me.

A lack of posts means little to be because he's calling out pretty much the exact stuff I am before I did a lot of the time. We both homed in on SNGs lack of unvoting for example.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


How is this anything like Pinball Mafia?!*

(*i guess I wasnít in youur masonry with yíall but Amni in that game was a very vocal individual, he was personally arguing in your stead for like 2-3 days, I get no overlap between these two games)

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Sandwolf posted:

How is this anything like Pinball Mafia?!*

(*i guess I wasnít in youur masonry with yíall but Amni in that game was a very vocal individual, he was personally arguing in your stead for like 2-3 days, I get no overlap between these two games)

It's the same style of posting. I also happen to know that his job picked back up so it's natural they're more busy than before.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Yami Fenrir posted:

It's the same style of posting. I also happen to know that his job picked back up so it's natural they're more busy than before.

Also the capitol has been invaded so I got distracted.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Amnistar posted:

Also the capitol has been invaded so I got distracted.

poo poo is loving crazy right now

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
But yeah, we are doing planning for the next 3 months of work these last few days havent been able to play during work.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010



Hey Tommu, where are you? What do you think about, well, anything?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Heís in Australia, just fyi Sub Rosa, so hemay not be around for a bit

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 2

sandnavyguy (3): Amnistar, Yami Fenrir, Sub Rosa
Retro Futurist (2): Sandwolf, sandnavyguy
Sandwolf (1): Tommunist
Yami Fenrir (0): sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy
Amnistar (0): Sub Rosa, Sub Rosa
Tommunist (0): Yami Fenrir, Yami Fenrir

Not Voting (1): Retro Futurist

With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is January 08th, 2021 at 3 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 1 day, 4 hours.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control


Ok I think we've covered everything that's going to get covered today ##vote SNG

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


I wish I was Canadian, British, German, or Australian tonight :(

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control


Sandwolf posted:

I wish I was Canadian, British, German, or Australian tonight :(

Worst case Iíll adopt you

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Retro Futurist posted:

Worst case Iíll adopt you

oh god please Daddy Opop

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Sandwolf posted:

I wish I was Canadian, British, German, or Australian tonight :(

No kidding.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
:redhammer: sandnavyguy is hammered? Oh well, they won't be missed.

Votecount for Day 2
With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is January 08th, 2021 at 3 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 1 day.

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009

DesiredPopulationMin = 3
DesiredPopulationMax = 19
AverageDeathsPerDay = 6
WeaponsUsed = 13



sandnavyguy, Duke Morcar of York, Chancellor (Scum-aligned Goon) has been executed Day 2!

quote:

You are Duke Morcar of York, Chancellor (Scum-aligned Goon), a powerful Anglo-Saxon Duke. Master of diplomacy, you have managed to talk your way into William's Court while you plot a return to Anglo-Saxon rule behind his back. Apart from the ability to carry out the factional night kill you have no other powers. You win when scum control the vote.

It is now Night 2.

ObamaAkbar. fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 7, 2021

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 2

sandnavyguy (4): Amnistar, Yami Fenrir, Sub Rosa, Retro Futurist
Retro Futurist (2): Sandwolf, sandnavyguy
Sandwolf (1): Tommunist
Yami Fenrir (0): sandnavyguy, sandnavyguy
Amnistar (0): Sub Rosa, Sub Rosa
Tommunist (0): Yami Fenrir, Yami Fenrir

Not Voting (0):

With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is January 08th, 2021 at 3 a.m. GMT -- that's in about 20 hours, 55 minutes.

ObamaAkbar.
Apr 7, 2009

DesiredPopulationMin = 3
DesiredPopulationMax = 19
AverageDeathsPerDay = 6
WeaponsUsed = 13



Soon after the innkeeper disappears into the kitchen we notice a foul odour emanating from somewhere below the floorboards. One of my escorts pulls open a loose board to reveal... a massive manure pit. Before we can react further to this bizarre find, the floor explodes beneath my feet...





Sub Rosa, Bishop Stigand, Court Chaplain (Town-aligned Vanilla) has died under suspicious circumstances Night 2!

quote:

You are Bishop Stigand, Court Chaplain (Town-aligned Vanilla), a most holy man and spiritual advisor to the King. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

It is now Day 3.

ObamaAkbar. fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Jan 7, 2021

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?
What kind of monster would kill Sub Rosa when they need a distraction from the rona.

Tommu, explain yourself.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?
Gonna be a bit busy today btw, work decided to dump a LITERAL MOUNTAIN of work on me over the holidays so I gotta work my rear end off.

Or as my buddy put it: "Welcome back from your vacation! Now do the work you didn't do during the vacation as well as the normal work."

:negative:

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
Okay, my money is still on Tommunist. No interaction with the SNG stuff at all. Sandwolf and RF are both maybe on that with the seeming reluctance to vote for SNG.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Amnistar posted:

Okay, my money is still on Tommunist. No interaction with the SNG stuff at all. Sandwolf and RF are both maybe on that with the seeming reluctance to vote for SNG.

I haven't reread yet but I don't see RF right now. SNG was trying to present them as the alternate lunch choice.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.

Yami Fenrir posted:

I haven't reread yet but I don't see RF right now. SNG was trying to present them as the alternate lunch choice.

SNG was dead. Anything they say should be regarded as suspect.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Amnistar posted:

SNG was dead. Anything they say should be regarded as suspect.

RF was at -2 before SNG was, iirc. Either way I'mma reread once I'm off work... SOMETIME THIS CENTURY.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Amnistar posted:

SNG was dead. Anything they say should be regarded as suspect.

So I revisited the relevant time frame and SNG and Sandwolf were both pushing RF as the lunch long before there were any actual votes on SNG.

I don't think this really tracks. I mean, sure it's still possible, but SNG was yelling for a RF lunch from before they even were a target. It seems like a really risky bus, especially with both you and me at least somewhat suspicious of RF.

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Yami Fenrir posted:

So I revisited the relevant time frame and SNG and Sandwolf were both pushing RF as the lunch long before there were any actual votes on SNG.

I don't think this really tracks. I mean, sure it's still possible, but SNG was yelling for a RF lunch from before they even were a target. It seems like a really risky bus, especially with both you and me at least somewhat suspicious of RF.

Actually, correction: Sandwolf voted SNG first, then you voted SNG, at which point SNG voted RF.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

Oh no, not me
We never lost control


Amnistar posted:

Okay, my money is still on Tommunist. No interaction with the SNG stuff at all. Sandwolf and RF are both maybe on that with the seeming reluctance to vote for SNG.

When I got to the thread he was - 1 and then I eventually did hammer him a day early. What reluctance?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?
So my two prime suspects right now are Tommu, the lurkiest man alive... and Sandwolf. Probably to nobody's surprise.

Here's why:

Like I said before, Sandwolf has been pushing basically everyone BUT SNG all of day 2. I found it suspicious that he pushed RF/Tommu while barely acknowledging the SNG vote on me at the beginning of the day.

Sandwolf posted:

Tommu tell me why youíre not scum

Same question Opop

Sandwolf posted:

Alright, Opop and RF, if you had to find a scum on the turbo of Hal, and there almost surely was scum on the turbo of Hal, who would you pick?

Here's an example but here's already where it gets odd:

Yami Fenrir posted:

Lol, after going like "wish I was able to take part in the turbo" in pinball this is suddenly scummy.

Also not pointing out that tommu broke the sacred turbo rules by hammering after hal spoke.

Tommu is scum confirmed and sng is probably his scumbo.


##vote Tommu for breaking the sacred turbo rules.

Like, this post wasn't even entirely serious, as should hopefully be obvious. And Sandwolf homes in on a "secondary" scumread on SNG.

Sandwolf posted:

Yami why not consider RF? Why drat SNG?

This post seems like a pretty big overreaction to me? Like, why react to this when you aren't even the one being called out?

But it continues:

Sandwolf posted:

Meh actually the sng vote for Ďstealing jokephaseí is kinda weak

Acknowledges SNG's post without really making a strong statement.

Shortly after, Sandwolf votes RF:

Sandwolf posted:

##vote RF

We got Ďim folks

I've read his content like 3 times now and I still don't understand how he arrived at RF as his strongest scum read. It's just not visible in their post history to me.

Which, to me, is pretty interesting considering how dead set Sandwolf is to lunch RF (Note that around this time SNG is getting heat)

Sandwolf posted:

Okay let me be more clear:

I donít think Yami or Sub are scum

Iím not scum

I think your and Tommuís votes on Hal are weak, with yours being slightly sneakier.

Iím suss of Amni and SNG but I think youíre a better target.

Nice try though ;)

Sandwolf posted:

I agree Tommuís hammer was bad and his not responding to me is super scummy (go to bed Tommu) but RF is more likely to be nefarious here I think

Sandwolf posted:

I also just want to point out that none of this implies youíre Town.

Sandwolf posted:

why not RF

Like, this scum read just seems way too strong for what's available in their post history? I'm starting to believe this is exactly this "backwards conclusion drawing" Sandwolf accused me off regarding SNG.

It continues on:

Sandwolf posted:

You see this ďpoking from the shadowsĒ poo poo and you assume itís me Yami? You donít know how to read me as town yet, do you?

I see the case on SNG but I donít see how itís any more convincing then the case on RF.

Realistically with how quiet Amni is, Iím beginning to think Iíd rather go there, but

This is also intriguing. Sandwolf was REALLY hard on RF. But then, when it wasn't happening, he'd much rather go to Amni, because 'they're too quiet'.

Like, this is just a continuation of Sandwolf's supposed reads being weaker than he wants to present them as. This in particular smells like an opportunistic switch. RF mislunch was apparently not happening, let's try to swing it to Amni by capitalizing on Sub Rosa's suspicion on Amni!

Sandwolf posted:

Yami you donít think itís weird at all that Amni is quieter than a church mouse?

Sandwolf posted:

Oh Iíve written SNG hammer posts three times now. My problem with voting SNG here is Iím effectively trusting you to have done my casing for me, cuz I donít think SNG is scummy. But you also think Iím scum, and Iím not, so I have reason to be suspicious of your casing ability this game. It honestly kinda feels like youíre walking backwards from your conclusion because your refusal to even consider RF or Amni is very weird to me.

Amni ďgot his reads outĒ in one post where he didnít substantiate anything and effectively gave himself free reign to vote anywhere tomorrow without looking contradictory.


Sandwolf posted:

Furthermore, RF is here sniping and encouraging bad ideas but isnít actually meaningfully casing anyone.

But you still are of absolutely singular mind that itís me and SNG.

Honestly Yami youíre gonna be a detriment to town in LYLO if you accept your own tunnelvision like this.

Sandwolf posted:

This is literally ALL Amni has in the way of ďgetting his reads out there,Ē Yami, this is really sufficient to you to get a town read on someone?

Sandwolf posted:

I literally donít see what contradiction you feel is such a loving slam dunk Yami but I am desperately trying to get you to reconsider the loving game here.

I called SNG suss earlier but now Iím saying if I vote him itís largely because youíre commanding the thread and loving demanding it. I wouldnít be voting him based on my early suspicion. Itíd be to hopefully get you to see that youíre being a loving moron but I have a feeling if SNG flips town youíll use EVEN THAT as evidence that Iím scum.

So Iím desperately trying to get you to loving think with your active brain instead of walking backwards from a conclusion.

Here Sandwolf is desperately trying to get someone, ANYONE to reconsider their vote on SNG. But wait, hold up!

Sandwolf posted:

Oh Iíve written SNG hammer posts three times now. My problem with voting SNG here is Iím effectively trusting you to have done my casing for me, cuz I donít think SNG is scummy. But you also think Iím scum, and Iím not, so I have reason to be suspicious of your casing ability this game.

Note that Sandwolf mentioned earlier I'm town. Also note the wording. This is important: "Trust you to have my casing done for me, cuz I don't think SNG is scummy." The first part? It implies that Sandwolf hasn't looked at SNG. Which he clearly has! He even says as much in a later post:

Sandwolf posted:

I called SNG suss earlier but now Iím saying if I vote him itís largely because youíre commanding the thread and loving demanding it. I wouldnít be voting him based on my early suspicion. Itíd be to hopefully get you to see that youíre being a loving moron but I have a feeling if SNG flips town youíll use EVEN THAT as evidence that Iím scum.

When I ask him what exactly made him reconsider SNG:

Sandwolf posted:

Amni and RF being scummier.

Never expands on this. Just, they're scummier. While the case on Amni is "they're lurking", and on RF is... "sniping and encouraging bad ideas?" like, what is that even supposed to mean? Meanwhile SNG is going around putting a bad joke vote on people and defending it as if it's a real vote. Like the stuff on SNG was very much tangible, and Sandwolf never explicitly interacted with the case, just "I see it but don't think it's worth pursuing over RF right now" which means NOTHING.

He's also accusing me of trying to control the narrative, essentially. While I'm town.

Sandwolf posted:

I see you popping up to loving encourage Yamiís worst impressions again!!

I do think heís suss (not as good as town in my mind as Yami or Sub Rosa, not as scummy as RF/Amni/maybe Tommu), but also you and Amni are voting for him with very little substantiation, so if my two strongest scumreads are voting for my less strong read... what? Iím supposed to just loving hammer anyways?

Itís not loving scummy to reconsider things, loving Christ

At which point he posts this:


Before going straight back to pretending Amni being a bit lurky is the scummiest thing:

Sandwolf posted:

Yami, go loving read through Amni and tell me if that makes you think heís town. I canít scumhunt someone with less than 4-5 real posts. Thatís why his laying low is scummy after he helped the D1 turbo.

Yami, I AM pointing at all the scummy things RF is doing here but you have already decided Iím scum because I donít want to hammer SNG.

Like this is a long quote train but the gist of it is; Sandwolf is INCREDIBLY desperate to find someone, ANYONE he can paint as suspicious and push over SNG. Like, at the time, I can see RF. But pushing Amni was ONE HELL of a stretch at the time, if you ask me. Especially in a "scummier than SNG" sense like he'd have us believe!

But now that we know SNG was scum, I am far more inclined that RF was simply a scapegoat for the scum team. RF was pushed both SNG and then so completely, absolutely insistently by Sandwolf, who resisted a SNG lunch TOOTH AND NAIL, I might add. Without ever saying SNG is town. Just "not as scummy as other people."

And finally, for the finishing touch:

Sandwolf posted:

Amni is to Yami as SNG is to Sandypants

This is the only law of SA Mafia.

This... this is such a "sorry I think I have to let you go buddy" post it's not even funny. It's basically a preemptive excuse if SNG flips scum.

##vote Sandwolf

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

I am a wizard, not a poet.
My order is Tommu -> Sandwolf -> Rf -> Yami for scum to town.

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Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

Amnistar posted:

My order is Tommu -> Sandwolf -> Rf -> Yami for scum to town.

Mind elaborating on why tommu over Sandwolf?

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