Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

i remember lots of dumb stuff about that game but mainly what i remember is how i had that hat

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

I do not wish to create joinder with your stank ass



Slippery Tilde

Imperial Agent story in the MMO is balls-to-the-walls insanely surprising and good (by MMO standards)

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

You know it, you love it, you post about it all over. Let's make a thread for Bioware's Star Wars RPG, taking place in the distant past that was exactly the same as the recent past, present, and future of the original Star Wars Saga but with clunkier looking robots.

I'm about to start a new playthrough of KOTOR because it's friday during rona times and I have nothing better to do.

Which Revan do you love?



I tend to do the bland white guy with the hair floof, third from the left on the bottom row, and name him Trik Toral, because that's the random name I chose at age 12. He's usually a light side scoundrel/guardian. Sometimes I do scout/sentinel fu manchu guy and he's 50/50 light/dark. He fixes up HK tho.

Bottom row asian-Revan giving some real bedroom eyes

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



Cease to Hope posted:

i made a thread about how that game is cool but also kinda sucks but nobody posted in it because nobody plays that game any more

is it fun to just make a character or two and than gently caress around or what?


Who What Now posted:

Bottom row asian-Revan giving some real bedroom eyes

bottom row black revan looks scared. i always picked bottom third from the left white bread revan

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"

Admiralty Flag posted:

KOTOR introduces the third-best protocol droid in Star Wars and deserves lots of credit for that.

KOTOR 2 elevates HK-47 far beyond what he was in KOTOR (e.g., his definition of love) and makes him the best protocol droid in Star Wars.

(K2-S0 is the second-best protocol droid in Star Wars and yes I know it's a "strategic analysis" droid or whatever but it's obviously meant to be a reimagined C3P0.)

The best protocol droid in Star Wars is this E-3PO:



You might know him better as that "E chu ta" droid

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Bogus Adventure posted:

You might know him better as that "E chu ta" droid

MODS?!

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


*poof of smoke* I'm a rakghoul now.
I think it's cool that the MMO references events on Taris from KOTOR 1. I just wish you didn't have to fight through a million rakghouls. Hmm, a plague that disproportionately effects the lower levels of society because the upper levels hoard the limited supply of medicine eventually leads to the planet becoming an infested wasteland... This is fiction, right?

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









I played the class stories in SWTOR and then got into the eternal empire or whatever it's called and it sucked; is it worth thinking about again

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Dapper_Swindler posted:

is it fun to just make a character or two and than gently caress around or what?

sure, you can play through an entire class story for free. after that you need to sub for a month to unlock the rest of the game. (you can cancel after one month and it stays unlocked.)

StashAugustine posted:

I played the class stories in SWTOR and then got into the eternal empire or whatever it's called and it sucked; is it worth thinking about again

if you don't like the eternal empire stuff, it doesn't improve from that point

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


Kreia's thoughts are like this bit from Interface:

quote:

I asked him about these changes. He said that the chemical allowed him to see the mind of God. Naturally, I asked for elaboration. At this, he launched into a rather overworked simile involving a broken mirror, then switched to another simile using a spider's web, neither of which made any sense to me. I informed him that I was a practical man and had little use for philosophy. He told me that after taking the chemical many times, he had become possessed of two minds: his own and that of God. In all his doings, he was conscious of God's intentions, of God's plan for all human life. I asked him if he was following God's plan, and he said he was not following it entirely.

"I am wrestling with God," he said cryptically.

"How does one wrestle with God? Isn't he all powerful?"

"When God presses forward, you must yield or be destroyed. And when God yields, you must press forward."

"That sounds more like dancing than wrestling. Or making love," I said with a snort.

He smiled. "Yes, it is... Except that dancing is not so painful."

"Why wrestle at all? If God is God, and you know his plan, why not simply follow it? Surely this is the best course."

"Yes, but I cannot bring myself to," he said. For the first time, I saw the peaceful expression flee from his face to be replaced by a unsettling dread that trembled in his eyes.

"God's plan... is simply too awful."

Kreia thinks she can see the Force's plan and she doesn't like what she sees.

One thing to keep in mind is that Kreia doesn't like many things and explicitly dislikes many things we think are good.

The Force may have an overarching vision. Kreia's clairvoyance suggests she's on to something. But just because Kreia doesn't like what she sees doesn't mean we have to dislike what she sees or that what she sees is actually "bad".

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



SlothfulCobra posted:

I really should try playing that MMO sometime while it still properly exists and I don't need to jump through a bunch of potentially illegal hoops.

The Warhammer MMO died and now it's revived and completely free and patched. MMOs have weird life cycles.

Sinner Sandwich
Oct 13, 2012


Not to be a pain and return to Kreia Chat, but I think something that never really gets properly addressed when discussing whether Kreia was "right" or "wrong" is how her conclusions are informed by her own character traits -- not just her ideology, but her personality and how that shapes the contours of that ideology.

For instance, look at who Kreia hates. She has a tremendous animosity towards droids, even blowing up Bao-Dur's remote at one point (maybe this was restored cut content) in a petty act of power and cruelty, the kind of which she'd chastise the Exile for. She snidely looks down at them, and while she's generally not (explicitly) racist, she specifically decides that Bao-Dur himself is subhuman and justifies it on the fact that she cannot read his mind and decides that he is just a hollow shell capable of following orders like the droids -- she doesn't consider that she alone cannot read his mind when the Exile can, nor does she really consider the way that Droids are not just tools following orders, but capable of gaining individuality and quirks of their own. Contrast Kreia's read of droids and her contempt with them with Atton's similar contempt. Atton distrusts droids because "they break, in the head", which obviously mirrors his own experience of breaking and going rogue. Kreia never seems to even consider this.

The reason Kreia hates the force is that she can't bare the idea of not being in control of her own destiny. But she is also Darth Traya, the Sith Lord of manipulation and betrayal. She never extends that empathy to the rest of the galaxy, not truly. Even the people she loves, like the Exile, she will manipulate as far as she can. Even when all the deceptions are stripped away, her goal is still to push you to do as she wants, to believe what she wants. She hates the Force not because its plan is evil, but because it has any power whatsoever over her. Someone upthread pointed out that Kreia sees the Force having any agency at all and decides it completely supplants the will of sentient creatures and that we're all just puppets, but that's because its what she, herself is afraid of. She is the puppetmaster, she can only interact with the world as the puppetmaster (except when she is teacher or historian) and the that framework totally warps her grasp on things.

If, during the final boss fight, you offer her mercy, she'll thank but refuse you the first time when it is still her choice, but if you do so again and refuse to kill her between phases, she's pretty blatantly upset. She will not have her agency challenged. She has decided it is time for her to die and you to succeed her, and she will not let anything, whether it be the will of the Force, or the Exile, stand in the way of that.

She's a lot of things, but a critical one of them is scared.

Also people overlook super cool characters like Atton too much in these discussions.

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


If you aren't using dual lightsabers, what are you even doing? It's the best way to max out crystal bonuses.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


what part of kreia's ultimate plan involved killing lots of people i remember it just involved cutting the force out of the galaxy

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


She wanted to make a 'wound in the force' not dissimilar to the wound created by this one really nasty battle where lots of heroes on both sides died.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


reignofevil posted:

She wanted to make a 'wound in the force' not dissimilar to the wound created by this one really nasty battle where lots of heroes on both sides died.

I thought the wounds already existed. Nihlus and the exile are both wounds in the force, both created by the battle whose name i can't remember, I thought her goal was simply to utilize the Exile as a wound by killing them and the aftershocks or echo of that murder would just cut off the force from the galaxy or something.

Sinner Sandwich
Oct 13, 2012


Up Circle posted:

I thought the wounds already existed. Nihlus and the exile are both wounds in the force, both created by the battle whose name i can't remember, I thought her goal was simply to utilize the Exile as a wound by killing them and the aftershocks or echo of that murder would just cut off the force from the galaxy or something.

Basically, the implication is that the trauma of being cut off from the Force is so overwhelming that it can kill people (eg: the Jedi Council at Dantooine) or shatter them entirely and turn them into something inhuman (which, iirc, is what Nihilus' origin is supposed to be) and coming out on top like the Exile is outlandishly rare.

Basically Kreia is gambling with trillions of lives, really bad odds, and heavy-handed PTSD allegories for the survivors.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


Nihlus gets done the dirtiest of the villains by the obvious deadline and budget issues. Fetch quests are over, His ship just shows up, time for a bunch of disconnected fight scenes on taris or whatever, oh now you kill him on his ship and somehow canderous gets more lines of dialogue than anyone else in that whole sequence. Even the early plot points with Visas feel pretty disjointed and weird. Everything about nihlus needed a little more time in the oven I think.

Meanwhile, Sion is almost totally irrelevant to the bigger plot and to Kreia's force wound plan but we know all about his mommy issues and why he had to be a sith lord because kreia didn't hug him enough, and he is constantly showing up like the Exile's nemesis.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


reignofevil posted:

She wanted to make a 'wound in the force' not dissimilar to the wound created by this one really nasty battle where lots of heroes on both sides died.

The both sides being the brutal Mandalorians who were ravaging the Republic and Revan's army that after winning would go on to ravage the Republic.

Up Circle posted:

Meanwhile, Sion is almost totally irrelevant to the bigger plot and to Kreia's force wound plan but we know all about his mommy issues and why he had to be a sith lord because kreia didn't hug him enough, and he is constantly showing up like the Exile's nemesis.

Sion is Kreia's failed student because he got hosed up so bad that he users the force to stay alive and Kreia despises that kind of handout. Also he probably wouldn't be too keen on killing the force itself.

He still shows up like a dork at Kreia's secret sith school because after the bigger, badder Sithlord got beaten, he knows he ain't got poo poo and just decides to go back to being a hanger-on.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


There was a vague super-weapon involved. I dunno maybe she was gonna fire it at someone or something.

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


Given the phallic nature of the iconic lightsabers, the yonic wound in the force isn't a negation of what has been previously established but a different way of expressing the force.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



StashAugustine posted:

KOTOR 2 is fantastic but I don't think I'll ever finish it again just because the gameplay is so awful

Yea when I saw there was a major content restoration patch I reinstalled and played through the first section on the mining station and that was great, BUT then I get to the first real planet and its just long runs between people to talk to them, maybe a fight, and I couldn't do it again.

Bogus Adventure
Jan 11, 2017

More like "Bulges Adventure"

I will never not be surprised how they managed to make a Star Wars RPG where you get to play as a Jedi into a boring-rear end visual novel.

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


I installed the KOTOR 2 restoration thing wrong so I just replayed KOTOR2.

It was good. I played KOTOR as a sort of Jedi fundamentalist -- very much a Jedi but just a pinch onto the dark side of the force-o-meter. Like Juhani. Master Yoda said, "Once you go to the dark side, you can never return". Maybe there is a similar strain that that time, maybe Yoda was just paraphrasing something my character said. Anyway, she's dead. That kind of thing.

There were also some gloves that gave some advantage that I really wanted at the time. There was a nice RP angle where they were corrupting me. Once the reveal hit, I felt prescient because while my Revan was a Jedi, him embracing Sith ideology would be an easy jump from there he was. Let his pragmatism edge out over his love for being a Jedi a few times and boom. Running an Empire because he could do it better.

That hosed me in my first KOTOR2 run because I wasn't specialized so I didn't get a prestige class, missed out on a lot of dialogue and relationships and the whole end was even more muddled than it already is.

A proper min/max playthrough was more interesting.

CarlCX
Dec 14, 2003

we can't rewind, we've gone too far


I was really mad about getting SWTOR instead of KOTOR3 for a long time, and then I got real depressed one summer and decided to finally try it, and now I've put 350ish hours into it and still kind of want to finish all the stories.

MMOs are poison, is the lesson.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



CarlCX posted:

I was really mad about getting SWTOR instead of KOTOR3 for a long time, and then I got real depressed one summer and decided to finally try it, and now I've put 350ish hours into it and still kind of want to finish all the stories.

MMOs are poison, is the lesson.

Yea, I've been told and heard from many sources that its worth playing through each classes story and that's about it.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



Up Circle posted:

Nihlus gets done the dirtiest of the villains by the obvious deadline and budget issues. Fetch quests are over, His ship just shows up, time for a bunch of disconnected fight scenes on taris or whatever, oh now you kill him on his ship and somehow canderous gets more lines of dialogue than anyone else in that whole sequence. Even the early plot points with Visas feel pretty disjointed and weird. Everything about nihlus needed a little more time in the oven I think.

Meanwhile, Sion is almost totally irrelevant to the bigger plot and to Kreia's force wound plan but we know all about his mommy issues and why he had to be a sith lord because kreia didn't hug him enough, and he is constantly showing up like the Exile's nemesis.


i weirdly like sion. dudes sad gently caress who keeps himself alive on hate and desperation for validation from mentor who views him a force welfare leech so he basicaly


also isnt nihlus just a force vampire/blackhole? like he just drains everything around him slowly.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Yeah Kreia says he isn't even really a person anymore, he's just a force of nature

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


Granted, it's Kreia saying that. She says that about all of her pupils: the character in KOTOR2, Revan, Nihilus.
Nihilus clearly shows volition when he is torturing the blind woman and he talks then too. The most developed character we see, Sion, is also very much a "force of nature" but also a person. It's just turned inward instead of outward.

kilus aof
Mar 24, 2001


Lt. Danger posted:

also I wouldn't characterise KOTOR2 writing as mystery boxes. the game's very up-front about what it means. what did Revan do after KOTOR1? Canderous/T3 tell you, they went off to fight the True Sith. who are the True Sith? Kreia tells you, they're an evil empire of Siths who've been loving around with the Republic the last few decades

there's no actual questions here. nothing like "who is Snoke?"

Less of a mystery box and more of a sequel hook. The true Sith were an interesting idea to ponder and then the MMO hits and it's just the EU Palpatine over and over.

Buttchocks posted:

If you aren't using dual lightsabers, what are you even doing? It's the best way to max out crystal bonuses.

Blaster Jedi. Even in the first game.

Lieutenant Centaur
Oct 17, 2010

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon


Still remember being mind blown and in complete shock of who you actually are in KOTOR when the mask comes off

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


I'd like to see a version of Kreia where she is Bane from Harley Quinn.

"Behold my latest creation, a wound in the force. Less a man and more a force of nature! I give you Revan!"

"Behold my latest creation, a wound in the force. Less a man and more a force of nature! I give you Sion!"

"Behold my latest creation, a wound in the force. Less a man and more a force of nature! I give you Nihilus!"

"Behold my latest creation, a wound in the force. Less a man and more a force of nature! I give you KOTOR2 Protagonist!"

"Behold my latest creation, a wound in the force. Less a man and more a force of nature! I give you Treya 2.0!"

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Lieutenant Centaur posted:

Still remember being mind blown and in complete shock of who you actually are in KOTOR when the mask comes off

Yeah too bad it's the only interesting thing the first game's story has going for it

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Defiance Industries posted:

Yeah too bad it's the only interesting thing the first game's story has going for it

The first games character stories are pretty good though. Its really just the PLOT that's kind of iffy.

VinylonUnderground
Dec 14, 2020

by Athanatos


The plot was serviceable. Death of Taris + Macguffin is fine. Any one of the planets could be expanded upon. The game does a lot with mood and tone that makes it way more than the sum of its parts. It does an effective job withholding information making the world feel larger without cheating the player or having the withheld knowledge make people out for chumps.

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


I'll say this for the first game: it felt less on-rails than the second.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Sanguinia posted:

The first games character stories are pretty good though. Its really just the PLOT that's kind of iffy.

I can't remember any of them but Carth, because Carth tells his story by passive-aggressively sighing at you until you listen to him. The influence system makes the character stories salvageable because they stop being mandatory.

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008


carths son is evil

Sombrerotron
Aug 1, 2004

Release my children! My hat is truly great and mighty.



Defiance Industries posted:

Personally I've always seen Kreia's goal as a metacommentary mostly analogous to G0-T0 criticizing you for thinking that because you killed Darth Malak, everything would magically fix itself. KotOR2 came out in 2004, between Episodes 2 and 3. There's definitely something pointed to making a story about how relying on the force makes you weaker as a person at the same time George Lucas is giving Palpatine the power to make our heroes dumber. Like she's saying "dude if you just magic your way out of every writing problem, you become a bad writer."
I feel that's a little undercut by the game co-starring, in no particular order, a Force Vampire, a Force Zombie, and a Force Black Hole, each being ridiculously powerful in their own way. I've always found that far too Kevin J. Anderson-esque for my liking.

Anyway, as far as Kreia is concerned, she's just a way for Avellone to gripe about Christian theology and Calvinism in particular.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


Might as well post this here.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-04-21-star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-developed-by-aspyr
https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-reportedly-coming-from-port-studio-aspyr
https://www.inverse.com/gaming/kotor-remake-release-date-developer-aspyr-rumors-star-wars-rpg
https://wccftech.com/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-will-be-an-action-rpg-rumor/
https://www.pcgamer.com/knights-of-the-old-republic-remake-reportedly-in-development-at-aspyr/

Basically there's been confirmation that somebody is working on a KOTOR remake, and there's rumors going on about it. One rumor is that it'll be an action RPG, which I gotta say, if they change anything, the battle system is the part of the game that slows down the game the most. At the very least, it'd be nice if the whole thing was sped up a lot. I actually really like how some areas in the game can have a nice, slow atmosphere, but just like how it's nice to slow down, you gotta speed things up now and then.

KOTOR 2 had a lot of differences in design philosophy and pacing, but it definitely did have the intention to speed things up in at least one aspect. They took the deep-sea-diving suit from the first game and sped up the walkcycle so it looked goofy but at least didn't take forever to get anywhere.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply