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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Grandicap posted:

First part bad, second part good.
Kill CENA. It's where the scum is.

Yeah but Clue could also be lying, you see. And while Cena didnít announce this in a totally town manner, itís not impossible he was just dumb about it

Iím not backtracking on Cena here I still think we should lunch him but I donít think we should write off Clue jus cuz he want ďguh but I didnít do that!Ē

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spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Better idea. Cena, since you've outed yourself as a PR, can you full claim? You should have more than one target.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



Sandwolf posted:

Yeah but Clue could also be lying, you see. And while Cena didnít announce this in a totally town manner, itís not impossible he was just dumb about it

Iím not backtracking on Cena here I still think we should lunch him but I donít think we should write off Clue jus cuz he want ďguh but I didnít do that!Ē

If clue is scum, why would he lie about targeting himself? If clue is town, why would he lie about targeting himself?
The reason to deny an action like that is to protect themselves from outing themselves as a role that can self target, of which there are only a few that would benefit.

None of this clears Clue as town (unless CENA flips scum, because drat that would be a hell of a gambit otherwise). But CENA's claim doesn't the needle in one direction or another about Clue's Alignment.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Iím down to wait for Cena to respond to that or lunch him if he doesnít

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



spacing in vienna posted:

Fffff I'm trying to think of a way to ask for clarification that doesn't role fish but I'm not sure there is one.

The best I can find is: did you actively choose a target last night, one that was not yourself?

A "no" could imply a passive selection role or VT, but unfortunately "yes" can only mean a town PR, so if anyone's got a better question?

I think I remember the answer to this one, we have to ask how the other Rhymes would clue would answer, and then do the opposite.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


if hes scum, he's lying because he is scum.

Keane wasnt visited night 1.

Fully sus on Grandi at this point, i believe he's playing from a position of bad faith with his framing, along with his godawful casework day one.

Sandwolf, you recognize the play?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Grandicap posted:

First part bad, second part good.
Kill CENA. It's where the scum is.

Yeah this post by Grandi gives me bad feels

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



JOHN CENA posted:

if hes scum, he's lying because he is scum.

Keane wasnt visited night 1.

Fully sus on Grandi at this point, i believe he's playing from a position of bad faith with his framing, along with his godawful casework day one.

Sandwolf, you recognize the play?

Why Keane? Why clue?

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


I'm addressing Grandis handwave of DONT READ INTO HOW CLUE RESPONDS AT ALL case he just posted.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


and keane because hes my friend but mainly i figured a coward would try to kill one of the better historical scum hunters and this crop of players might have slept on me for my late game scum pwning :twisted:

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



JOHN CENA posted:

if hes scum, he's lying because he is scum.

Keane wasnt visited night 1.

Fully sus on Grandi at this point, i believe he's playing from a position of bad faith with his framing, along with his godawful casework day one.

Sandwolf, you recognize the play?

Scum don't lie if there is no benefit to lying. What benefit is there to Clue's response there?

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Grandicap posted:

Scum don't lie if there is no benefit to lying. What benefit is there to Clue's response there?

really bored with these Nothing Matters handwaves

##vote Grandicap

go home and be a family man

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



JOHN CENA posted:

i have a big shift today so I'll ask now: rhymes with pew, why did you self visit last night?

I guess I'm struggling to think about how this leads to thinking Clue is scum when the preponderance of roles where a self visit is useful are town, and if Clue was redirected that would almost certainly be without his knowledge.

Additionally, this is a relatively small game and the role locker was executed. What scum roles with night actions are out there that aren't killing roles?

I don't think Clue is scum, basically, and I think we should probably back off this line for a while.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 3

JOHN CENA (2): Sandwolf, Grandicap
CCKeane (1): Voodoofly
Grandicap (1): JOHN CENA
Rhymes With Clue (1): Toalpaz

Not Voting (3): CCKeane, Rhymes With Clue, spacing in vienna

With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 16th, 2021 at 4:58 p.m. EST -- that's in about 18 hours, 40 minutes.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



How is self targeting scummy CENA? Why would lying about it be scummy?

Like, I've been dancing around it because it is a lovely thing, but you are trying to out our doc essentially. If you aren't lying about your results, the role that loving self targets is a doctor.

If he did self target, then he would lie about it because confirming it outs him as a doctor.
If he didn't self target then he isn't lying.
Those are by far the two most probable outcomes, one points to him being town as gently caress, the other has no bearing on his alignment.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


CCKeane posted:

I guess I'm struggling to think about how this leads to thinking Clue is scum when the preponderance of roles where a self visit is useful are town, and if Clue was redirected that would almost certainly be without his knowledge.

Additionally, this is a relatively small game and the role locker was executed. What scum roles with night actions are out there that aren't killing roles?

I don't think Clue is scum, basically, and I think we should probably back off this line for a while.

i dont think clue is scum based off of night actions because thats too much of a wifom ocean. there are reasons why im not pressing the issue with clue but anyone posting in good faith already has that figured out

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Grandicap posted:

How is self targeting scummy CENA? Why would lying about it be scummy?

Like, I've been dancing around it because it is a lovely thing, but you are trying to out our doc essentially. If you aren't lying about your results, the role that loving self targets is a doctor.

If he did self target, then he would lie about it because confirming it outs him as a doctor.
If he didn't self target then he isn't lying.
Those are by far the two most probable outcomes, one points to him being town as gently caress, the other has no bearing on his alignment.
stop fishing.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



JOHN CENA posted:

stop fishing.

Jesus loving christ.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I mean cena is claiming watcher right? scum are down their rb, i don't see any reason why clue can't full claim.

rhymes being a doctor doesn't explain the pro-keane anti-town logic because it would mean that rhymes doesn't have any info as a town doctor to make that kind of statement.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


JOHN CENA posted:

stop fishing.

? you said no one visited keane right

JOHN CENA posted:

if hes scum, he's lying because he is scum.

Keane wasnt visited night 1.


isn't this as good as a claim? lol

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006




guys i found where grandi and toalpaz are posting from

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Unless Iím mistake. In all this we have a direct lie between Cena and rhymes.

Yes I know there could be a bus driver or something but at this point I do want rhymes to answer something, even if he tells us to gently caress off and stop asking.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Yeah rhymes didnít vote Cena. Cena isnít voting rhymes. I have no ducking idea why Cena wanted to publicly out rhymes but that cat is out of the bag and I wouldnít mind more clarification.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Voodoofly posted:

Unless I’m mistake. In all this we have a direct lie between Cena and rhymes.

Yes I know there could be a bus driver or something but at this point I do want rhymes to answer something, even if he tells us to gently caress off and stop asking.

Yeah, I don't know if I buy there being a bus driver and a role blocker on a scum team this small. Esp since that implies a power-heavy town, and all the townies so far has flipped vanilla.

Cena, pretend I have a head injury here and just kind of hint me in the right direction?

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Grammar edit: *have

Ugh I changed the sentence and now it's got an error booo

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



The Bass Pro Shop Pyramid? howíd you guys get in?

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


spacing in vienna posted:

Yeah, I don't know if I buy there being a bus driver and a role blocker on a scum team this small. Esp since that implies a power-heavy town, and all the townies so far has flipped vanilla.

Cena, pretend I have a head injury here and just kind of hint me in the right direction?

My result isn't relevant as to where the scum is. Read interactions between my main FOSes. i think this is actually pretty solved.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


JC I'm going to be fishing with dynamite soon.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Toalpaz posted:

JC I'm going to be fishing with dynamite soon.

me too, every wednesday on tnt

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Toalpaz posted:

JC I'm going to be fishing with dynamite soon.

never expected this link to be relevant

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Rhymes With Clue posted:

Would rather not elaborate atm. Just saying, the vote is more pro-CCK than anti-Toalpaz.

no one town has ever come to a conclusion like this

Rhymes With Clue posted:

mafia edit, probably unnecessary, *My* vote.

see they obviously cp from scum chat coaching what a team mate said about their vote

spacing in vienna posted:

I'm okay with people being a little squirrelly with info on d2 -- I assumed more would be explained later and filed it away.

clue hasn't been squirrelly with info they just made a really logically unreasonable post from the town perspective

Grandicap posted:

Maybe I'm misreading, but his defense of Keane when Toal voted him immediately made me think night action.

jc says clue didn't visit keane

None of this is resolved and it should be.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


CCKeane posted:

I can see IA yeah.

CCKeane posted:

It's Sandwolf.

apart from a defence of clue, this is all of keane's cases.

scum! or at the very least, executable on principle.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


what do you call someone who just offers town reads and engaging in banter? faking engagement. thank you.

I understand you all like to chase your own bones and personal vendettas, but you gotta vote out people who aren't hunting scum.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


nah just vote out scum directly and thats good enough.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Toalpaz posted:

apart from a defence of clue, this is all of keane's cases.

scum! or at the very least, executable on principle.

I think ignoring my repeated probing and questions in the thread is an intentionally misleading read of my thread activities.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



CCKeane posted:

I'm constitutionally obligated to play this game, however I am going to be farting around a lot so I don't get worked up.

So I'm saying it here, so I can quote this post during the game later, "yes I am just dicking around a bunch, but I'm still right."

I will also refer you back to this post, made before roles went out.

Also take a look at how Toal is also immediately backing away from calling me scum here:

Toalpaz posted:

apart from a defence of clue, this is all of keane's cases.

scum! or at the very least, executable on principle.

So they've put in an escape hatch for when I flip town.

It's bad!!!

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


I guess Iím still waiting for rhymes to come back and say whether he is going to clarify his and Cenas different versions of night 2.

In the meantime Iíll reread people. Sort of leaning grand right now as gut but honestly Iím pretty lost.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


CCK can you just prove to me you can vote. Vote me if you want.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Voodoofly posted:

CCK can you just prove to me you can vote. Vote me if you want.

I live in America, not australia, you can't force me to vote.

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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



CCKeane posted:

I live in America, not australia, you can't force me to vote.

They donít force you in Oz you just get penalized if you donít

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