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teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?


According to IGN, 24 minutes and 7 seconds of ZSJL is in slow motion. Lmao.

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Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



Srice posted:

I remember years ago when The Avengers came out, one of the earliest negative reviews was written by a woman and as is wont to happen when a woman writes something negative about a comic book movie, she got a ton of death threats. I remember it really felt like it got swept under the rug pretty quickly.

Amy Nicholson. Funny enough, she co-hosted a movie podcast with Devin Faraci who continuously called her an idiot for not knowing the names of Star Wars poo poo.

Also remember all those explicitly Neo-Nazi Marvel fans who got upset that Idris Elba was going to play a Norse god?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


teagone posted:

According to IGN, 24 minutes and 7 seconds of ZSJL is in slow motion. Lmao.

release the Real-Time Cut

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!



smoobles posted:

the funniest part of this exchange was the fact that it happened right after WW exploded a guy into pink mist in front of everyone

that little girl is a sociopath.

The whole scene is very discomforting. Basically the movies opening action scene is WW murdering these terrorists and then smiling about it to the kids. She leaves visible bloody marks on the walls where she uses her powers unrestrained to just crush skulls and vaporize the one guy with her gauntlets.

Kids cheer. Just a really weird tone.

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014



teagone posted:

According to IGN, 24 minutes and 7 seconds of ZSJL is in slow motion. Lmao.

lmao

Joss Whedon's version sucked a lot, but I cannot fathom how a studio ended up believing that Zack Snyder deserved a 70 million dollar budget to redo it. We ended up with a movie that sucks in entirely different ways.

The viewer, the artform, the cinematic universe, and humanity itself gained nothing here.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


As a parent, I can assure you those kids were not bothered about that poo poo at all. Little kids are insanely ok with violence and you generally have to be like "hitting is wrong, wishing death on your classmates is wrong, torturing bugs is wrong"

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


The Notorious ZSB posted:

The whole scene is very discomforting. Basically the movies opening action scene is WW murdering these terrorists and then smiling about it to the kids. She leaves visible bloody marks on the walls where she uses her powers unrestrained to just crush skulls and vaporize the one guy with her gauntlets.

Kids cheer. Just a really weird tone.

it owns, because that's basically characterization of Wonder Woman (and consistent with BvS and the original WW film, at least)

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






The Notorious ZSB posted:

The whole scene is very discomforting. Basically the movies opening action scene is WW murdering these terrorists and then smiling about it to the kids. She leaves visible bloody marks on the walls where she uses her powers unrestrained to just crush skulls and vaporize the one guy with her gauntlets.

Kids cheer. Just a really weird tone.

when a literal greek god bursts through the door, violently murders ten people and turns to you for approval, you'd better loving cheer

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014



Necrothatcher posted:

when a literal greek god bursts through the door, violently murders ten people and turns to you for approval, you'd better loving cheer

big Homelander vibes from Zack Snyder's Wonder Woman

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Not a redtext or an own. Just a funny anime av (love big anime tiddy).


It's only discomforting if you're a baby who thinks violence is bad and not awesome.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


smoobles posted:

the funniest part of this exchange was the fact that it happened right after WW exploded a guy into pink mist in front of everyone

that little girl is a sociopath.

That poor reactionary :cry: he just wanted to return Europe to the good old days

I get not liking Gal Gadot as a person but the character of WW is a pagan Greek demigod who is quite emphatic to others. Like if she starts sniping children at recess cuz their wrongfully imprisoned fathers went on a hunger strike in prison, then sure that's some Israeli soldier coding. But otherwise it's just a bad reading

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


i don't think Snyder's take on Wonder Woman is that she's a female Homelander, but there definitely is a bit of a "live by the sword, die by the sword" vibe there, especially with her funeral scene in the vision of the future

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl



Here is the lesson of wonder womanís introductory fight scene: killing reactionaries kicks rear end

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


smoobles posted:

big Boss Baby vibes from Zack Snyder's Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman has been the hardassed murderer of the group for most of her modern incarnation. It's basically been her MO ever since people grew tired of BDSM Shenanigans.

If it wasn't a kids series I would have absolutely bought DCAU Wonder Woman beheading supervillains, for example.

Blood Boils posted:

I get not liking Gal Gadot as a person but the character of WW is a pagan Greek demigod who is quite emphatic to others. Like if she starts sniping children at recess cuz their wrongfully imprisoned fathers went on a hunger strike in prison, then sure that's some Israeli soldier coding. But otherwise it's just a bad reading

I mean, I personally would have shied away from having her deal with suicide bombing terrorists.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015




won't someone think of the far-right reactionaries?

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


When did Batman's arbitrary and nebulous no killing rule start applying to every superhero ever?

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser




I know that guy was not the Clock King but I'm going to say he was the Clock King

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

°Hola SEA!




The Notorious ZSB posted:

The whole scene is very discomforting. Basically the movies opening action scene is WW murdering these terrorists and then smiling about it to the kids. She leaves visible bloody marks on the walls where she uses her powers unrestrained to just crush skulls and vaporize the one guy with her gauntlets.

Kids cheer. Just a really weird tone.

Do you think kids in war zones donít idolize the combatants?

Augus
Mar 9, 2015




a long chain of people trying to one-up each other at being the biggest empaths in the room that always inevitably arrives at the conclusion of "crying that a nazi died"

AccountSupervisor
Aug 3, 2004

I am greatful for my loop pedal

Lets just completely ignore the opening of Civil War in which Black Widow and Falcon visibly shoot and blow up like 6 people

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


AccountSupervisor posted:

Lets just completely ignore the opening of Civil War in which Black Widow and Falcon visibly shoot and blow up like 6 people

FWIW I think they are specifically complaining about the kid idolatry immediately after the murder.

Like yeah, you can point to real world examples where that may happen/is plausible, but on film it still comes off as very satirical.

I didnt mind it too much, personally.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser




Neurolimal posted:

comes off as very satirical.


"We're just a small group of reactionary terrorists"

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Martman posted:

But when Marvel movie fans do the same stuff, why are they not called "Marvel-bros?" Where are the articles about "Russo-bros" and how dangerous they are? (and of course, where were the articles about "Hillary bros" doing the same poo poo)

For me, the defensiveness isn't about claiming an instance of harassment didn't happen, it's about pushing back against the narrative that the bad behavior somehow relates to the creator and subject of the fandom more than for the countless other cases of this poo poo happening with every fandom and group imaginable, including ones that are far more accepted in the mainstream.

If you're relating that you had personal instances of this happen to you with this specific fandom and not others, that's fine of course, but I think it's very important to clarify whether what you're really saying is just "this harassment is actually happening," or "this harassment is actually happening in this group more than in others."
I mean even that Vox article from before named the BS around The Last Jedi and Ghostbusters. And honestly even one of the worst examples of a Snyder fan threatening to kill James Gunn as kind objectively not as bad as what "Ghostbuster fans" did to Leslie Jones.

But I'll say is a few points:

1) There is a difference between someone using some lovely fans to bludgeon the actual quality of the film or people who have good stuff to say about it with bad fandom poo poo and someone implicitly or explicitly saying they had a bad experience with these fans. Implying that someone says i get a lot of threats from these people or harassment on twitter or had to leave twitter and acting as if they're saying that in bad faith seems like a conspiratorial way to think.

2) Where Snyder's Cut is unique is that Snyder is aligned with the fans, or somewhat. Paul Feig, Rian Johnston, and their respective crews suffered because of fans being lovely about their thing. Same with Gamergate. This doesn't mean that Snyder is aligned with the bad poo poo that's happening. He should get a movie made. I think there is something about how such ridiculous deference ended up paid to what is a pretty mediocre superhero film, but wanting to make the thing you wanted to make isn't bad in itself.

3) Snyder probably shouldn't have called the toxic stuff BS. Like it's fine to say that's not your experience or the majority of fans and I don't expect him to get pearl clutchy, but you could imagine better messaging. EDIT: As called out, he did have better messaging in a VF article.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 24, 2021

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

As a parent, I can assure you those kids were not bothered about that poo poo at all. Little kids are insanely ok with violence and you generally have to be like "hitting is wrong, wishing death on your classmates is wrong, torturing bugs is wrong"

When I let my 4 year old play Minecraft he walked a few steps, saw some pigs, and immediately turned to me and said "how do I kill?"

4000 Dollar Suit
Dec 11, 2005

I rarely go into the field, motherfucker.

IDK what's new about a kid idolizing a heroic murderer. I idolized the poo poo out of Arnold and Stallone when I was like 13, after having tricked my parents into letting me watch their R rated catalog.

It's only as an adult that I'm going "drat those guys were just doing their jobs" as a kid I was definitely in the mindset of "YES, MAKE THE BAD MAN FLY!"

4000 Dollar Suit fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 24, 2021

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


It's absolutely true that the most moral thing for Wonder Woman to do would have been to restrain that guy and turn him over to the authorities.

But she's a flawed character who did only the second-most moral thing: executing the attempted right-wing suicide bomber on the spot.

2house2fly posted:

When I let my 4 year old play Minecraft he walked a few steps, saw some pigs, and immediately turned to me and said "how do I kill?"

I kept my kid away from most anything violent and it worked great until pre-school, when he immediately came home after, like, a week and proudly announced that he was going to cut off my legs with a machete like Pennywise would.

And this was a goddamn private Christian school!

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 24, 2021

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






DrVenkman posted:

When did Batman's arbitrary and nebulous no killing rule start applying to every superhero ever?

1954

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?


Timeless Appeal posted:

3) Snyder probably shouldn't have called the toxic stuff BS. Like it's fine to say that's not your experience or the majority of fans and I don't expect him to get pearl clutchy, but you could imagine better messaging.


Vanity Fair Snyder Cut article posted:

The trolls may have actually held back the movement, like looters at an otherwise peaceful demonstration. Snyder cringes at descriptions of the abusive tactics. “I 100 percent think it’s wrong,” he says. “I don’t think that anyone should be calling anyone anything. I’ve always tried to give people in the fandom attention who do good things.”

He called out the fandom toxicity and condemned it in the VF article.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


^Aw okay, my bad. I'll edit. I was referring to another article that had an earlier quote, but I'm glad he came around with more positive messaging^

I lead a D&D group and the kids were charged with finding a Yeti who had kidnapped a Princess. But it turned out the Yeti and Princess were buds. But i made the price too high for capturing the Yeti. The kids still wanted to kill him so the Princess defended him, and then one of the kids accidentally killed the Princess in the process. So, they killed the Yeti and had a ten minute conversation on how to frame the Yeti for murder.

It was when they were discussing leaving scratch marks on her body that I drew the line.

Kids.

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 24, 2021

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk


The Notorious ZSB posted:

The whole scene is very discomforting. Basically the movies opening action scene is WW murdering these terrorists and then smiling about it to the kids. She leaves visible bloody marks on the walls where she uses her powers unrestrained to just crush skulls and vaporize the one guy with her gauntlets.

Kids cheer. Just a really weird tone.

That's what makes it such a good scene. The current state of media consumption is that it's perfectly fine for kids to idolize superheroic violence as long as it's properly censored.

The Snyder Cut is an R-rated movie, so explicitly not for kids. That means you're responsible for interpreting what Snyder's trying to say about how scary, yet cool, the spectacle of violence is to children.

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?


4000 Dollar Suit posted:

IDK what's new about a kid idolizing a heroic murderer. I idolized the poo poo out of Arnold and Stallone when I was like 13, after having tricked my parents into letting me watch their R rated catalog.

It's only as an adult that I'm going "drat those guys were just doing their jobs" as a kid I was definitely in the mindset of "YES, MAKE THE BAD MAN FLY!"

More people tryna be woke these days.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






smoobles posted:

the funniest part of this exchange was the fact that it happened right after WW exploded a guy into pink mist in front of everyone

that little girl is a sociopath.

This is a dumb take

This pearl clutching for terrorists that were about to shoot kids in the face is just bizarre, and part of this insidious trend where people complain when violence is actually, ya know, violent, because they've grown up with PG-rated media with A-team physics where people can just walk off helicopter crashes and act like they get shot with rubber bullets (honest), and where blodless violence without collateral damage has been normalized.

Showing the consequences of tossing someone against the wall like that is cool and good, exploding child murderers is cool and good .

smoobles posted:

lmao

Joss Whedon's version sucked a lot, but I cannot fathom how a studio ended up believing that Zack Snyder deserved a 70 million dollar budget to redo it. We ended up with a movie that sucks in entirely different ways.

The viewer, the artform, the cinematic universe, and humanity itself gained nothing here.


This is an even dumber take. Go for the hattrick!

Augus posted:

a long chain of people trying to one-up each other at being the biggest empaths in the room that always inevitably arrives at the conclusion of "crying that a nazi died"

lol

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


4000 Dollar Suit posted:

IDK what's new about a kid idolizing a heroic murderer. I idolized the poo poo out of Arnold and Stallone when I was like 13, after having tricked my parents into letting me watch their R rated catalog.

It's less "kids wouldn't idolize them!" and more that actually depicting it on film gives the result a sharper edge. Kids idolized Stallone, a vietnamese kid popping out and saying "Can I be as cool as you when I grow up mr. Rambo?" would obviously have people assuming the movie is making a statement...

John Wick of Dogs posted:

"We're just a small group of reactionary terrorists"

...and being satirical/making a statement isn't a bad thing!

It's like the difference between kids getting roped into stupid displays of jingoism IRL, and Verhoeven filming kids stomping on bugs. It happens, but you can't envision a director doing so without it being a statement on such happening.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe



roffels posted:

Mine was window boxed until i held ctrl and used the mouse wheel to zoom in.

Going back several pages, but thank you. This solved the weird HBOMax browser letterboxing problem I was having.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Timeless Appeal posted:

I lead a D&D group and the kids were charged with finding a Yeti who had kidnapped a Princess. But it turned out the Yeti and Princess were buds. But i made the price too high for capturing the Yeti. The kids still wanted to kill him so the Princess defended him, and then one of the kids accidentally killed the Princess in the process. So, they killed the Yeti and had a ten minute conversation on how to frame the Yeti for murdered.

It was when they were discussing leaving scratch marks on her body that I drew the line.

Kids.

lol amazing

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Timeless Appeal posted:

^Aw okay, my bad. I'll edit. I was referring to another article that had an earlier quote, but I'm glad he came around with more positive messaging^

I lead a D&D group and the kids were charged with finding a Yeti who had kidnapped a Princess. But it turned out the Yeti and Princess were buds. But i made the price too high for capturing the Yeti. The kids still wanted to kill him so the Princess defended him, and then one of the kids accidentally killed the Princess in the process. So, they killed the Yeti and had a ten minute conversation on how to frame the Yeti for murdered.

It was when they were discussing leaving scratch marks on her body that I drew the line.

Kids.

I mean, maybe leading kids into D+D isn't your thing? It's a violent world. What about when they need to kill the goblin master? They are just playing in the world you created. Don't scold them for it.

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion


Mantis42 posted:

It's only discomforting if you're a baby who thinks violence is bad and not awesome.

I too was raised by American media

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Vintersorg posted:

I mean, maybe leading kids into D+D isn't your thing? It's a violent world. What about when they need to kill the goblin master? They are just playing in the world you created. Don't scold them for it.

eh I think discussions of how to best mutilate a corpse are probably a good point to say "okay let's just skip past this part" esp depending on the age of the kids

(i mean, they already killed the yeti and the princess)

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Timeless Appeal posted:

1) There is a difference between someone using some lovely fans to bludgeon the actual quality of the film or people who have good stuff to say about it with bad fandom poo poo and someone implicitly or explicitly saying they had a bad experience with these fans. Implying that someone says i get a lot of threats from these people or harassment on twitter or had to leave twitter and acting as if they're saying that in bad faith seems like a conspiratorial way to think.
I don't think I was suggesting anything like this, but sorry if it came off that way. I just meant that there is a difference between demanding that your real experience be acknowledged (or at least not denied), which is absolutely good of you to do, and going further and saying "based on this experience I have deemed this fandom worse than other fandoms." If I argue against the second one that's not the same as denying your experience. And my point of view is that Snyder fans are basically just like any other fans on the internet, which means "this fandom includes a bunch of terrible hateful bigots and we should constantly try to remove and deplatform them."

quote:

2) Where Snyder's Cut is unique is that Snyder is aligned with the fans, or somewhat. Paul Feig, Rian Johnston, and their respective crews suffered because of fans being lovely about their thing. Same with Gamergate. This doesn't mean that Snyder is aligned with the bad poo poo that's happening. He should get a movie made. I think there is something about how such ridiculous deference ended up paid to what is a pretty mediocre superhero film, but wanting to make the thing you wanted to make isn't bad in itself.
It's completely normal for creators to be "aligned with the fans" when fans are excited about the release of a project. Look at the Youtube comments of a random movie trailer full of hype and you'll find people slinging racial slurs, death threats, and god knows what, but creators aren't finding themselves obligated to speak out against them.

To say the Snydercut movement is unique in this way is basically to beg the question and sneak in an accusation that it's actually a movement about harassing people until we get what we want instead of a movement about wanting a movie to come out.

Martman fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Mar 24, 2021

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2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

smoobles posted:

lmao

Joss Whedon's version sucked a lot, but I cannot fathom how a studio ended up believing that Zack Snyder deserved a 70 million dollar budget to redo it. We ended up with a movie that sucks in entirely different ways.

The viewer, the artform, the cinematic universe, and humanity itself gained nothing here.

I gained a cool rear end movie

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