Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Superrodan posted:

It looks so dark and miserable to me, like it's going to be all of the self importance of when comic books take themselves too seriously, and little to none of the fun. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Not to pick on you specifically, and certainly everyone gets different things out of these movies, but Iím still blown away when everyone says these movies are so joyless. For me while they tackle heavier aspects of super heroing they do it in a hopeful and ultimately optimistic way. Also in the first two Perry White and Alfred are both genuinely funny to me, even if the heroes arenít the ones cracking jokes

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Roman
Aug 8, 2002



dark and self important comic books are the best comic books

Bullbar
Apr 18, 2007

The Aristocrats!


I have no problem with dark and dour superhero stuff that tackles heavy issues/themes/tone, I just have a problem when it fails to be Actually Good like Man of Steel, BvS, and Justice League did

Superrodan
Nov 27, 2007


Pirate Jet posted:

If fun is stuff like Wonder Woman 1984 I hope this film is the least fun Iíve ever had in my life.

There was also very little fun in that movie. The mall scene was like that sitcom trope of someone that doesn't know how to have fun doing something they think is fun and then turning to everyone and saying "See? I'm fun!". and it just got worse from there.

I think the only person having fun was Kristen Wiig, near the beginning anyways. Oh and maybe one or two of the scenes with Chris Pine catching up on the 80s.

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

Switches Set



Bullbar posted:

I have no problem with dark and dour superhero stuff that tackles heavy issues/themes/tone, I just have a problem when it fails to be Actually Good like Man of Steel, BvS, and Justice League did

Two of those three are really good movies though?

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



The Cameo posted:

I do wonder if Cyborgís in the background because heís the character witnessing all of this going down in some self-projection stuff like what was in those original, pre-Whedon trailers where heís walking around in his college clothes or if heís actually in this future.

Snyder did a Q&A a few years ago and apparently Cyborg is the one who does the calculations that allow Flash to travel back in time to warn Bruce in BvS, so it's likely that he's actually still alive in that timeframe.
It's also supposed to explain why Flash is "too soon" in BvS. Because Flash can travel through time but not space, they need the Earth to be at the same point in its rotation around the sun, or else he'll end up floating in the void when he gets to the past. Cyborg's able to calculate two viable points in spacetime for Flash to visit, but Batman remembers that the one they chose initially was too early, so he gets them to go to the other one instead, and may be what triggers his premonitions in this movie.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

Pirate Jet posted:

If fun is stuff like Wonder Woman 1984 I hope this film is the least fun Iíve ever had in my life.

Joss Whedon's Justice League was fun and in color and Superman CG smiled in it and look how that turned out. Batman made jokes and Martha Kent said Lois Lane was the thirstiest reporter Clark ever knew. So much fun and crack wise. It was exactly what such people wanted.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester


Julius CSAR posted:

Two of those three are really good movies though?

Well, one of them was

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


The Ray Fisher stuff specifically resonates with me because the nastiest part to me is that in "fixing" the movie, they treated his character like a complete token and a puppet. Geoff Johns in particular believes he has some kinship with the character, yet when it came time to put that on the screen, he was helping throw the actor under the bus. What a little asswipe.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011




Pirate Jet posted:

If fun is stuff like Wonder Woman 1984 I hope this film is the least fun Iíve ever had in my life.

Same

I could also do without our hero hilariously fumbling through a school shooting using an orbital drone

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012



The moral throughline of the "Man of Steel" series that is Superman's commitment to doing good inspires others, who had resigned themselves to the seeming futility of it all, to follow his example. First he battles with the grave and traumatic epiphany of a hostile universe as embodied by Zod, then the fear and rage of those who endured that trauma, Lex and Batman. It's fitting that it should escalate to the source material's ultimate personification of despair and pessimism, Darkseid.

They are not light movies by any means, but I think the operative antonym here should be "heavy" rather than "dark."

Bullbar
Apr 18, 2007

The Aristocrats!


Julius CSAR posted:

Two of those three are really good movies though?

I strongly disagree. For me, Justice League was the least bad of the lot and still terrible.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Bullbar posted:

I strongly disagree. For me, Justice League was the least bad of the lot and still terrible.

This is just ultra bizarre to me because Justice League is an unwatchable mess.

Roman
Aug 8, 2002



Vintersorg posted:

This is just ultra bizarre to me because Justice League is an unwatchable mess.
it's amazing how they took something that would at least appeal to Snyder fans and made it into something for absolutely nobody

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester


Justice League was so good they're giving us a new director's cut with hours of extra footage, at their expense (to the tune of tens of millions of dollars)!

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

by Fluffdaddy


i'm looking forward to having a little more of Jeremy Irons' Alfred in my life

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

Roman posted:

it's amazing how they took something that would at least appeal to Snyder fans and made it into something for absolutely nobody

Whedon's Justice League and Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker is exactly what the people who complain asked for. They were given exactly what they wanted. Turns out not only do they not really understand themselves, their fanboy subject, any aspect of creative film-making/writing, and just exist to bond with each other in hate. So I don't know why anyone listens to them since they clearly don't like what they ask for.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I don't really know what fun means. I had a ton of fun watching Man Of Steel and BvS

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

Homora Gaykemi posted:

i'm looking forward to having a little more of Jeremy Irons' Alfred in my life

Yes! The dude's one line in that trailer was probably the highlight of the whole thing

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



2house2fly posted:

I don't really know what fun means. I had a ton of fun watching Man Of Steel and BvS

Fun is a buzzword now where Youtube critics shout at you "Up the fun levels at 1 hour in please"

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


The Cameo posted:

I dunno, he works pretty well in his bit role as the rear end in a top hat cop in Jenniferís Body

Also getting punched in Wanted.

Bullbar posted:

I strongly disagree. For me, Justice League was the least bad of the lot and still terrible.

This is one of those opinions that I knew had to be out there, but I still kind of can't believe it exists.

Superrodan
Nov 27, 2007


Gatts posted:

Joss Whedon's Justice League was fun and in color and Superman CG smiled in it and look how that turned out. Batman made jokes and Martha Kent said Lois Lane was the thirstiest reporter Clark ever knew. So much fun and crack wise. It was exactly what such people wanted.

Not to defend Justice League, but honestly those things were probably the only reason I heard the people I talked to about it at work and such considered "forgettable" and "meh" instead of a "that was horrible trash" from most of the people that told me about it.

The actual plot and villain, I don't remember anyone caring about, but people will latch onto those character moments that remind us why these characters are interesting and fun to root for. I can't even remember anything about Steppenwolf or what the Justice League did to defeat him, or honestly anything other than that he was named Steppenwolf. I do, however, remember the scene where Superman looked at the Flash while he was running fast, though. And I seem to recall the Flash being kind of fanboy-ish about Batman. That's kind of all I remember about the whole thing.

This is my own personal interpretation that I'm sure many people disagree with, but the Justice League and The Avengers and most of the classic era Marvel and DC comics have a general atmosphere of optimism to them under the surface, and treating them the same as something like Watchmen has always felt a bit counterintuitive to me. For Watchmen I thought it was perfect, because that's how the story felt like it was crafted in the first place.

I watch the trailer for Zach Snyder's Justice League and I get the same vibes as that Teen Titans trailer that came out a while back where Robin said "gently caress Batman". The vibes are toned down of course, that "gently caress Batman" was such an extreme example of teenage edginess that pretty much the entire internet made fun of it immediately, but this gives me a similar feeling. I really, sincerely hope I'm wrong, and watching this will make me care about the actual plot of the movie and the villains. It certainly seems to feature them a lot more.

As I mentioned before, one way or another this is going to be more divisive. I genuinely think there will be a percentage of people that love it. I am definitely planning on watching it and I hope I am one of them.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Why does Bruce Wayne still dress up as Batman in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? It seems like there would be no one left to protect his identity from, or to inspire.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007






Striking fear into the parademons

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


live with fruit posted:

Why does Bruce Wayne still dress up as Batman in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? It seems like there would be no one left to protect his identity from, or to inspire.

It's called the Knightmare because the Batman costume is a suit of armor. He is Batman.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






I think we all know that when people complain about these movies not being fun, what is actually being said is that they're unhappy that these films aren't power fantasies that make them feel good. It's why there's so much focus on Superman not smiling and being "dour", they don't feel reassured that he's having a good time! They want Superman as the warm father figure that they can depend on to save the day, and a Batman that brutalizes and cripples criminals, but in a heart of gold kind of way, ya know

It's honestly baffling how there's this weird expectation that every superhero movie needs to be FUN and drip in self effacing irony. Doubly so considering Josstice League was exactly that kind of movie, and that flopped.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

It's called the Knightmare because the Batman costume is a suit of armor. He is Batman.

Like, metaphorically? Seems like he should be wearing the suit he wore to fight Superman.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

400 years from now when the Earth is an apocalyptic wasteland from the ravages of climate change the remnants of man will gather in the ruins of the last museum on earth, a Costco, and hoist into the air a Blu Ray DVD of Justice League: The Snyder-Cut and declare it to be the zenith of art. As it hovers in the air, transcendent as if from on high and light beaming behind it, beneath it is a pit as if from hell where cries of the damned yell "RANDIAN!" "SNYDER-BRO!" "WHY CAN'T YOU BE IN COLOR!" and arms of MCU heroes are stretched out from the pit exclaiming "SAVE US FROM DISNEY AND THE FANBOYS!" and the Snyder-Cut Blu Ray whispers back "No."

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






live with fruit posted:

Why does Bruce Wayne still dress up as Batman in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? It seems like there would be no one left to protect his identity from, or to inspire.

Bruce is the mask, Batman is the real Bruce wayne etc etc

teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?


live with fruit posted:

Why does Bruce Wayne still dress up as Batman in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? It seems like there would be no one left to protect his identity from, or to inspire.

Bruce Wayne is the persona. Batman is the real person. Duh.

[edit] Damnit!

Bullbar
Apr 18, 2007

The Aristocrats!


Snowman_McK posted:

Also getting punched in Wanted.


This is one of those opinions that I knew had to be out there, but I still kind of can't believe it exists.

I'm not saying JL is good or even average, but I absolutely did not enjoy Man of Steel or BvS at all. I'm honestly stunned to see so many people saying they're good. They're all bad imo and the only good DCEU movies are Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






Also not for nothing, but if you didn't find the jar of piss funny, I dunno what to tell you.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



Bullbar posted:

I'm not saying JL is good or even average, but I absolutely did not enjoy Man of Steel or BvS at all. I'm honestly stunned to see so many people saying they're good. They're all bad imo and the only good DCEU movies are Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey.

Almost like they're divisive that really worked for some people to the point where they spent four years participating in a fan campaign to get more of that style of movie.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



McCloud posted:

I think we all know that when people complain about these movies not being fun, what is actually being said is that they're unhappy that these films aren't power fantasies that make them feel good. It's why there's so much focus on Superman not smiling and being "dour", they don't feel reassured that he's having a good time! They want Superman as the warm father figure that they can depend on to save the day, and a Batman that brutalizes and cripples criminals, but in a heart of gold kind of way, ya know

It's honestly baffling how there's this weird expectation that every superhero movie needs to be FUN and drip in self effacing irony. Doubly so considering Josstice League was exactly that kind of movie, and that flopped.

The films are still power fantasies though? Like through and through. Batman in particular will never escape being a power fantasy and even if BvS gives him the Space Racism angle they also give him tons of scenes showing how cool and awesome he is. Superman is still plenty power fantasy, it's just the more angsty "why don't people see" kind of power fantasy. And Wonder Woman basically exists to swoop in with a kickin' rad theme and kick the poo poo out of a monster and look neat doing it.

There is nothing not power fantasy about the Snyder movies. They represent flawed characters but that does not preclude the other because there is a large genre of power fantasy which revolves around that and uses it as melodrama fuel. There are absolutely people for who the Snyder films are fun power fantasy. You can argue they are misreading the film but when the film goes out of its way to present Batman kicking the rear end of a room full of people in brutal violent ways as Fuckin' Sweet there is at least some element of that there.

The major difference is largely what people want in their power fantasy. Snyder's films are very focused on the idea of the Great People who stand above and the difficulties they face from jealousy, spite and hatred, whereas Marvel has decided to go all-in on the idea of 'normal people' who obtain great power. Both are power fantasies it just depends on what flavor of power fantasy you enjoy.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Feb 14, 2021

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester


Gatts posted:

400 years from now when the Earth is an apocalyptic wasteland from the ravages of climate change the remnants of man will gather in the ruins of the last museum on earth, a Costco, and hoist into the air a Blu Ray DVD of Justice League: The Snyder-Cut and declare it to be the zenith of art. As it hovers in the air, transcendent as if from on high and light beaming behind it, beneath it is a pit as if from hell where cries of the damned yell "RANDIAN!" "SNYDER-BRO!" "WHY CAN'T YOU BE IN COLOR!" and arms of MCU heroes are stretched out from the pit exclaiming "SAVE US FROM DISNEY AND THE FANBOYS!" and the Snyder-Cut Blu Ray whispers back "No."

It sounds like Watchmen's the zenith there

brawleh
Feb 25, 2011

I figured out why the hippo did it.



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

The Ray Fisher stuff specifically resonates with me because the nastiest part to me is that in "fixing" the movie, they treated his character like a complete token and a puppet. Geoff Johns in particular believes he has some kinship with the character, yet when it came time to put that on the screen, he was helping throw the actor under the bus. What a little asswipe.

That the initial trailer for Snyder's cut has more character development for Fisher's Cyborg than the theatrical cut is just loving wild.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


live with fruit posted:

Like, metaphorically? Seems like he should be wearing the suit he wore to fight Superman.

Metaphorically. But we know for certain the suit is partially bulletproof.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016



The Whedon version of Justice League reminded people why they liked those characters, unless they happened to be fans of Cyborg, in which case tough poo poo

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010


Bullbar posted:

I'm not saying JL is good or even average, but I absolutely did not enjoy Man of Steel or BvS at all. I'm honestly stunned to see so many people saying they're good. They're all bad imo and the only good DCEU movies are Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey.

Even if you didn't like any of the three, regarding JL as the least bad is still completely mystifying.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

RBA Starblade posted:

It sounds like Watchmen's the zenith there

lol, right.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply