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Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

The glow is a guide, my friend. Though it falls to you to avert catastrophe, you will never fight alone.

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Hmm making Jail 3 gluttony seems like a real stretch to me

They kind of drop that theming halfway through. I'm not really sure why. It feels like some producer was slamming the table going "NO IT HAS TO BE THE DEADLY SINS, THATS WHAT MARKETING GRAPHS ARE SAYING AND THEYRE NEVER WRONG"
and then the team just shrugs, puts it in at first then stops when the guy stops looking at the development.

Drakenel fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Mar 10, 2021

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CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



Yeah I think the dilemma they set up with Jail 3 is actually pretty interesting what would you do to hold onto power when you know everyone else around you is worse and then even for the whole Jail the snow theming resonates with a bunch of aspects of the story, and then whoops grotesque fat lady eats you... writers shrugging and going uh politics is eat or be eaten, does that work

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
The Jails each having to conform to a deadly sin is dumb and doesn't really fit well to any of the monarchs at all tbh, and all it did was service a lazy narrative retread of P5 so I'm not sure why they bothered.

ApplesandOranges posted:

Generally, the character that has a heavy hand in that dungeon's storyline is gonna be good against the boss. So Ann for Alice and Yusuke for Natsume.

That really only holds true for the first three jails though, after that Okinawa doesn't really come off as anybody's jail, except maybe Sophie's I guess? Kyoto starts off as Makoto's, then becomes Zenkichi's. Osaka's is... uh, Sophie's again I guess? Or nobody's? Jail of the Abyss is Sophie again, I guess she gets three jails, and then Tree of Knowledge isn't really anybody. In retrospect the first three jails come off as weirdly laser focused on a specific party member, and then the rest just... aren't.

CandyCrazy
Oct 20, 2012

Those three are also probably the three most neglected in the original game (Ann sort of faded into the background after Makoto joined, Yusuke was only really relevant to his debut palace, and Haru didn't even get that), so I wonder if giving them proper screen time might've been one of their goals for the story.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees





Will do, Haru

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

CharlieFoxtrot posted:



Will do, Haru

Uh, I must have missed this one.
Is it gated behind (post 3rd jail/before 4th spoilers I guess) the date event?

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



She gives it to you if you talk to her during the "take care of everything before we leave" segment of Sapporo

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Yeah, I double checked and I got it.

Man, Alice still broken as gently caress. Mamudoon on 3xattack -> special, concentrate on 2xattack -> 2x special, and mudo boost at level 81 plus the usual mamudoloan Die For Me!

By the way, do mudo/hama skills deal damage against targets immune to instant death? I'm fairly sure I saw the weak message pop up against a single target that didn't keel over dead.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
The structure of the game is really weird, given how the first three dungeons follow a particular sort of pace, in how you investigate, go in the jail, get three cores, get forcibly lkicked out at some point, then face the boss. Then, this is completely dropped for the dungeons afterwards except sort of Konoe's palace, which is still a lot more linear than the others so it's not like where you have a hub that branches off into the cores.

It's weird, like they had two different gameplay designers that came in at different times of production.

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"

Morpheus posted:

The structure of the game is really weird, given how the first three dungeons follow a particular sort of pace, in how you investigate, go in the jail, get three cores, get forcibly lkicked out at some point, then face the boss. Then, this is completely dropped for the dungeons afterwards except sort of Konoe's palace, which is still a lot more linear than the others so it's not like where you have a hub that branches off into the cores.

It's weird, like they had two different gameplay designers that came in at different times of production.

The 6th jail definitely returns to this form though, probably on a little bit of steroids on the dungeon side of that.

Speaking of the 6th jail (Late 6th jail spoilers): omg zenkichi's calling card

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Morpheus posted:

The structure of the game is really weird, given how the first three dungeons follow a particular sort of pace, in how you investigate, go in the jail, get three cores, get forcibly lkicked out at some point, then face the boss. Then, this is completely dropped for the dungeons afterwards except sort of Konoe's palace, which is still a lot more linear than the others so it's not like where you have a hub that branches off into the cores.

It's weird, like they had two different gameplay designers that came in at different times of production.

Yeah I just did the 4th and 5th Jail and it was definitely a wild departure from the previous ones, either it was just rushed or someone else entirely was designing them. I have to say I liked the previous dungeons better.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
I would say it'd get incredibly tiring if they repeated the first 3 for the next 3, the change of pace benefits.

Badger of Basra
Jul 25, 2007

I feel like there's something I'm not getting about how you're supposed to be dodging attacks in this game. I feel like in a lot of fights (especially bosses) I'm almost never able to complete a long combo because I get knocked out of the attack, and if you try to dash to avoid the attack you can't resume the combo from where you left off. Should I just not be using the longer combos on bosses?

ultrachrist
Sep 27, 2008
I stopped reading the thread when I started playing, but having just finished dungeon 3, this game is only. . . ok.

It's fun to see the gang together again, but this is the worst musou + other property game I've played. It's just doesn't gel right. The characters seem designed like musou characters except crowd control is basically never an issue, so I only care about a very specific subset of moves. Everything explodes super fast in trash battles and I can barely tell what's going on. When I get hit, it's usually by something I didn't see or understand. Then, the bosses take for-goddamn-ever. Even hitting with combos into their weakness + SP spending moves and getting 2-3x all out attacks.

It's not like it's hard exactly. I got my first game over on boss 3 when she inexplicably murdered my entire party in one spin. It's just rough and unsatisfying (usually... but holding Haru's triangle attack into mothmen is p satisfying).

I've got everyone's skills maxed except Ann's. I think my favorite party is Joker/Morgana/Ryuji/Haru.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah I wouldn't play this game for gameplay. It's fun in its own way but it's basically a Persona game, just a little faster-paced.

Also, standard 'make sure you're debuffing/buffing in a SMT game'.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
It's not a musou, it's an action RPG persona game. Yeah sometimes you fight a large number of enemies, but everything from the structure of levels to story pacing to menus make it pretty explicit that this isn't really a musou game.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Ugh, I got a fusion accident twice when trying to make Pisaca, and the extra attempts set me back about 20k. So much for buying new weapons/armor for my party, that basically completely destroyed my funds. At the very least, it seems like fusion accidents give you a decent number of Persona XP points, I was able to max a few Personas I couldn't before they happened.

Badger of Basra posted:

I feel like there's something I'm not getting about how you're supposed to be dodging attacks in this game. I feel like in a lot of fights (especially bosses) I'm almost never able to complete a long combo because I get knocked out of the attack, and if you try to dash to avoid the attack you can't resume the combo from where you left off. Should I just not be using the longer combos on bosses?

That's my one complaint is longer combos seem completely useless. In regular battles the enemies die too fast for long combos to be useful, and in boss battles the bosses attack too much for you to be able to use them. Anything past YYX might as well not exist.

Blamestorm
Aug 14, 2004

We LOL at death! Watch us LOL. Love the LOL.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Ugh, I got a fusion accident twice when trying to make Pisaca, and the extra attempts set me back about 20k. So much for buying new weapons/armor for my party, that basically completely destroyed my funds. At the very least, it seems like fusion accidents give you a decent number of Persona XP points, I was able to max a few Personas I couldn't before they happened.


That's my one complaint is longer combos seem completely useless. In regular battles the enemies die too fast for long combos to be useful, and in boss battles the bosses attack too much for you to be able to use them. Anything past YYX might as well not exist.

There are a lot of ways you can disrupt or stun enemies to essentially create windows for longer combos, including bosses. A lot of big boss moves too end up with a recovery period. I find I’m still using longer combos in the 6th palace just because I got calibrated by the first palace I think to save SP (which isn’t really necessary at this point) and it’s all about interpreting what’s going on on the screen and timing/positioning. Most enemies have windups and commit to directions for their moves so you can usually dodge around or behind them to get a big combo up.

Edit: that said agreed they are more situationally useful once HP/Sp becomes less of a limiting factor - another reason I use them more is I use a lot of the big physical moves and you need time to recover the HP.

ultrachrist
Sep 27, 2008

Morpheus posted:

It's not a musou, it's an action RPG persona game. Yeah sometimes you fight a large number of enemies, but everything from the structure of levels to story pacing to menus make it pretty explicit that this isn't really a musou game.

It's made by the musou people and controls exactly like all the others + menu commands. Reskin the characters here and you could stuff them into dynasty warriors (or hyrule warriors or samurai emblem warriors or...).

The fact that the levels and enemies don't mesh with that is my point. Seems like a move-set like Makoto's is designed for a different game entirely.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

^^^ Yeah, I basically agree with this. The characters have all these cool combos, but the actual gameplay discourages you from using them (just using your skills and spamming SP healing items is usually most effective, and unlike regular Persona you can do things like just quickly and repeatedly spam an attack).

Badger of Basra posted:

I feel like there's something I'm not getting about how you're supposed to be dodging attacks in this game. I feel like in a lot of fights (especially bosses) I'm almost never able to complete a long combo because I get knocked out of the attack, and if you try to dash to avoid the attack you can't resume the combo from where you left off. Should I just not be using the longer combos on bosses?

This is the biggest flaw in the gameplay IMO. Doing combos is essentially completely unnecessary and unnecessarily puts you at risk.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Ugh, I got a fusion accident twice when trying to make Pisaca, and the extra attempts set me back about 20k. So much for buying new weapons/armor for my party, that basically completely destroyed my funds. At the very least, it seems like fusion accidents give you a decent number of Persona XP points, I was able to max a few Personas I couldn't before they happened.


That's my one complaint is longer combos seem completely useless. In regular battles the enemies die too fast for long combos to be useful, and in boss battles the bosses attack too much for you to be able to use them. Anything past YYX might as well not exist.

I have yet to get a single fusion accident and I'm level 38 or 39 now.

Fortunately money stops being a big issue later into the game. I was running really low for the first couple dungeons (to the point where I never bought any equipment), but now I can at least easily afford Persona fusion stuff.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 11, 2021

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


I just got my first fusion accident... at 64

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



lol yeah I think on normal difficulty at least, being able to spam recovery items and having plenty of SP items means I've been able to kind of just brute force my way through combat. Maybe it's different on the higher levels/NG+?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Late game you're pretty much just gated by SP, since theoretically you can spam skills to break shields > AoA > items as needed > repeat, since skills are near instant.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

There's an outlaw camp right here with some shady folks eatin' beans. yeehaw chucklefuck.
I've just completed the second dungeon so I've refrained from saying much since I think a few of my gripes will eventually go away and I want to see the whole picture, but it's honestly feeling very flawed to me other than the writing/characterization and presentation. as an action game fan who does not normally ever play JRPGs, persona 5 was my GOTY when it came out while persona 5 strikers is feeling very incoherent with pacing that just snaps between 0 and 100. hopefully things smooth out over time - the second dungeon already felt a bit less swingy than the first.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
The sentries in dungeon 2 have Lu Bu's voice actor and that amuses me to no end.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Re: Jail 3: So I feel like the whole "Hyodo is responsible for the girl's death" thing is a bit of a culture gap thing? Like IMO she's maybe not squeaky clean on the whole thing, but I feel like she sure as hell didn't need to cover anything up.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Ugh, I got a fusion accident twice when trying to make Pisaca, and the extra attempts set me back about 20k. So much for buying new weapons/armor for my party, that basically completely destroyed my funds. At the very least, it seems like fusion accidents give you a decent number of Persona XP points, I was able to max a few Personas I couldn't before they happened.


That's my one complaint is longer combos seem completely useless. In regular battles the enemies die too fast for long combos to be useful, and in boss battles the bosses attack too much for you to be able to use them. Anything past YYX might as well not exist.
Hard disagree. Yeah, long combos aren't super useful on trash mobs, but I use YYYXXX all the time (and on bosses

I got my first fusion accident trying to get Pisaca too though, IIRC. I don't think I bothered to try again until later; might not have had the cash on hand for the ingredients the game just ate.

Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Mar 11, 2021

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Commander Keene posted:

Re: Jail 3: So I feel like the whole "Hyodo is responsible for the girl's death" thing is a bit of a culture gap thing? Like IMO she's maybe not squeaky clean on the whole thing, but I feel like she sure as hell didn't need to cover anything up.

I assume you've finished it, so here's my take on it:

Hyodo wasn't directly responsible, but she was responsible for who she gave power to. It's definitely an unfair situation, but she was, essentially, the face of the Sapporo government body. And she had given her direct signature on approval of the sculpture. Call it 'maybe she should have read what she was signing' or 'she should have hired cleaner staff', but essentially, she did indirectly cause that girl's death. And if she'd come straight out, then there's nobody left in power to keep the corruption in check. So she said, 'I'll be the necessary evil', stayed in power, and went rampant on anti-corruption. Then EMMA gave her the ability to remove any potential threats to her mayordom while also knocking off the scumbag that blackmailed her in the first place.

Hyodo's definitely given more of a pass compared to the previous two Monarchs, though. That's why she was given a 'happier' resolution.

SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Ugh, I got a fusion accident twice when trying to make Pisaca, and the extra attempts set me back about 20k.
Fusing Raja Naga I got fusion accidents three times in a row.

Sucked, but I got a level 50 pixie out of it (and two random other ones I don't remember).

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

lol yeah I think on normal difficulty at least, being able to spam recovery items and having plenty of SP items means I've been able to kind of just brute force my way through combat. Maybe it's different on the higher levels/NG+?
After the first dungeon that's more or less how it's been on hard. Once you unlock cooking and assuming you're doing the side quests to get more store options, the number of SP healing items you can get is largely dependent on how long you can handle listening to "Is that what you want?/Thank you very much!" while methodically buying every available ingredient after every dungeon dive. I wouldn't be playing JRPGs if I wasn't immune to tedium, so I've always got a couple dozen bowls of curry or whatever on me, and that's enough to hammer a boss into submission on hard, assuming you can hit its weaknesses.

Really after the first boss fight the next encounter that really gave me any trouble was (super mild spoilers, I guess) the door hacking before the first core in the sixth dungeon, and that's because so loving many of the mobs had no weakness and a shitload of them had ranged attacks that would take out Futaba in a couple hits.

waah
Jun 20, 2011

Better stay in line when
You see a Pavel like me shinin

If nothing else, the some of dialogue after the first boss is absolutely hilarious.

I don't remember the last time a RPG actually màde me laugh multiple times irl.

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

You see the most shocking sights sometimes

waah posted:

If nothing else, the some of dialogue after the first boss is absolutely hilarious.

I don't remember the last time a RPG actually màde me laugh multiple times irl.

The jokes in this game are often legitimately good

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Arist posted:

I just got my first fusion accident... at 64

Well, having fusion accidents at that age is perfectly normal and nothing to be embarrassed about.

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

You see the most shocking sights sometimes

Morpheus posted:

Well, having fusion accidents at that age is perfectly normal and nothing to be embarrassed about.

ED (Execution Dysfunction) is a real issue

Dr. Fishopolis
Aug 31, 2004

a shark on beer is a beer engineer
I beat this game with zero fusion accidents :shrug:

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"
Finished the game and overall, I thought it was a fun experience overall. Combat isn’t winning any awards but it was functional enough to keep me playing and I felt the story/presentation was really good too. And this is the first Musou-like I finished let alone had some fun with.

Hats off to the localization and dubbing crew too; there were a lot of legit funny jokes and really powerfully acted scenes

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Morpheus posted:

Well, having fusion accidents at that age is perfectly normal and nothing to be embarrassed about.

BearDrivingTruck posted:

ED (Execution Dysfunction) is a real issue

lmao

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
Everyone's voice acting is better in this game but I want to give some props directly to Max Mittelman as Ryuji who has some of the best comedic line reads I've ever heard in a dub

CandyCrazy
Oct 20, 2012

I thought Mittelman (and most of the cast, for that matter) already knocked it out of the park with the voice acting in the original P5, despite the translation, so it's really impressive how much better he did in Strikers.
"Holy poo poo what have I done?"

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

You see the most shocking sights sometimes
"Send the effin' thing back!"

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah Mittleman is absolutely A++ in an already star-studded cast. I don't know what the guy does to get into character that well, but he needs to keep doing it.

If Persona 5 didn't already vault him to the top of my VA list, Strikers cemented it.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Ryuji and Zenkichi are by far the standouts but god do they rule every scene they are in in the English version.

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