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Apraxin
Feb 22, 2006

General-Admiral

Sydin posted:

Not sure how much insight you have into the localization as a whole but during the Konoe calling card scene when Ryuji fucks up his line and says the group will be "baking" Konoe's desires instead of "taking" them, was that the original slip up in the Japanese, or was it modified to something that would sound natural?

As an on-and-off hobbyist translator, localization details fascinate me, thank you for making these posts. :)
Pretty sure that in the Japanese he bites his tongue out of nervousness, so it ends up like We'll take back the dethireth!!!

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Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Since the cops already know the Phantom Thieves' identities but nobody else does, I'm guessing that their identities weren't made public because they're minors? It just hit me that when you get to Kyoto the cops have a giant manhunt going on for them, and it would probably help if they put out a public statement with the PT's identities and such, but they seem to not have done so.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
Yeah I always assumed that it was a matter of embarrassment: the police and the government don't want to admit to the public that the Phantom Thieves that gave them such a run around were a bunch of dumbass kids.

im saint germain posted:

From what i recall of the raw TL of the scene, Ryuji does misspeak there, but the words were modified so it'd sound more like an actual slip-up in English. i don't remember exactly what he says in Japanese (although a fanlation of Scramble on YT might give an idea), but from what i recall, it would've been two totally different-sounding words in EN if directly translated, so it wouldn't have sounded as realistic as the scene demanded. would've been a bummer to have that one fall flat

Apraxin posted:

Pretty sure that in the Japanese he bites his tongue out of nervousness, so it ends up like We'll take back the dethireth!!!

Yeah, figured it was something along those lines. Thanks!

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Twelve by Pies posted:

Since the cops already know the Phantom Thieves' identities but nobody else does, I'm guessing that their identities weren't made public because they're minors? It just hit me that when you get to Kyoto the cops have a giant manhunt going on for them, and it would probably help if they put out a public statement with the PT's identities and such, but they seem to not have done so.

If memory serves there's laws in Japan against putting out a minor's identity even if they're wanted for crimes

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Blockhouse posted:

If memory serves there's laws in Japan against putting out a minor's identity even if they're wanted for crimes

Yeah that's what I was thinking, it wasn't so much "the cops didn't want to look incompetent because they're kids" it was more "they're legally prevented from doing so."

Joker sure talks a lot for being a Persona protagonist. He even says full sentences, though I guess Yu did talk a lot too in the spinoffs. It's just funny because Joker straight up having a voice line in the first calling card reminded me of the end of the P4 Endurance Run when Charlie Tunoku gets on the train at the end and Jeff goes "I totally won our bet, I didn't talk for a year!"

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



The best part of P5 is rapidly scrolling through all your personae for the voice lines

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
It's also when you find out that 'ugh, I picked up a Jack Frost mask again?'

Also just about wrapping up the compendium in NG+ Merciless. I can actually craft Lucifer right now. Then it's just bond EXP and then I'm.... done? The Merciless journey has been interesting so far, not sure if I'll finish the game with it but it's good.

Spiffster
Oct 6, 2009

I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...


Lipstick Apathy
Not gonna lie being able to pull a Ryuji and tell Akane that they are the Phantom Thieves for it to be brushed off was amazing

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

^^^ me, pro gaming
re: the Okinawa jail, they should rename the game P5F

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Jail 5 spoilers: Fooled you, Zenkichi! Made you think your daughter was dead! She's not, though. But you thought she was. That's why it was so funny. But she's not.

Post Jail 5 spoilers: Sounds like the next Jail is possibly the last one? Lavenza said that the journey was coming to an end, and I got requests to beat the super strong Shadows in each Jail. I mean, I suppose there could be another Jail past Konoe, since Owada seems to be the mastermind, but I dunno. It sort of feels like this can't be the end given that my average party level is only 40. Yeah, it's a spinoff, but that still seems pretty low for everything to wrap up.

One question: what's the Phantom Dash? I had noticed the "increase phantom dash damage" bond skill but never leveled it because I didn't know what it was and it seemed unnecessary, but now I have a request to defeat Neko Shogun specifically with a Phantom Dash and I don't know how to do that.

Zinkraptor
Apr 23, 2012

"Phantom Dash" is when you press circle (or the equivalent button) to jump to a nearby environmental item, like confetti launchers, the cars you can explode, the various things you can drop on enemies, etc. You don't actually have to kill the enemy with the phantom dash (because it doesn't actually do damage on its own), but the environmental hazards it enables.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Close. The Phantom Dash is just any attack from one of the points you can jump to, be it exploding a car or doing a dash attack from the perch. And you don't have to kill with that attack, you just have to hit the enemy with it before they die.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah they're actually fairly lenient on mission requirements? I think the only time they're a little stricter on it was one mission where you had to kill 10 enemies with Sophie, I think she had to land the killing blow or have her lead into a killing AoA or something.

Not a huge issue since those enemies are weak to Guns, but yeah.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Yeah I noticed pretty early on that for the "defeat x with weakness" missions you didn't have to land the finishing blow with it, as long as you'd used the weakness on them at some point. When I did the Mothman one, that was actually when I found out that every character has a slightly different gun, as I basically hadn't been using guns at all until that point. So then I found out that Ann has a machine gun and that Haru has a loving grenade launcher.

squirrelzipper
Nov 2, 2011

MorningMoon posted:

The opening half hour feels like the game going "aw, you missed us? We missed you! :3:"

22 pages ago, but I just picked this up on switch and the first 20 minutes was me thinking ‘drat I’ve missed these kids’ and the game going ‘we’ve missed you too’ and that’s worth the price of admission. Games pretty ok too, I don’t usually play these but it’s the phantom thieves so...

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

gently caress you God! Again! End mission spoilers.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Sydin posted:

I expected Zenkichi and Makoto's dialogue together to be some pretty pro-cop cringe poo poo, but it was actually one of the best written bits in the game. The game initially presents him as manipulative and corrupt just like the rest, unconvinced of the groups ability to enact any kind of real justice, but that conversation and Zenkichi's underlying desperate plea to Makoto that if she actually wants to hold onto her sense of justice then becoming a cop is the worst thing she could possibly do is a phenomenal pivot point towards what he ultimately is in the story.

I like how you actually have (~5th palace spoilers) Zenkichi's boss as someone who isn't transparently evil in her motives and tells herself that she's "doing the right thing" and will change things from the inside once she has more power/influence, while still obviously doing bad things.

It's a pretty accurate representation of what happens IRL with positions of power like police or politicians. Someone has a bunch of personal incentives to cooperate with those in power, and they come up with whatever justification that allows them to still feel good about themselves ("if I play along, someday I'll have the power to change things!"). It's basically irrelevant what someone's intentions are, since in the end they're still facilitating a harmful system.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Yeah I noticed pretty early on that for the "defeat x with weakness" missions you didn't have to land the finishing blow with it, as long as you'd used the weakness on them at some point. When I did the Mothman one, that was actually when I found out that every character has a slightly different gun, as I basically hadn't been using guns at all until that point. So then I found out that Ann has a machine gun and that Haru has a loving grenade launcher.

Ann is actually lowkey really good with her gun since it has tons of ammo and is a great way to mow down Shot-weak bosses. In the original P5 it had the issue of being random target but here with a targetable scope it's like, suddenly good to pump a clip of free damage when she's low on SP. If you get all the ammo upgrades it has 200 ammo.

I think Morgana has the worst 'gun'? I dunno the slingshot is kinda boring but it has a memorable design, I don't even remember what gun Makoto uses.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME
Morgan's gun at least has homing projectiles that let you mow down pixies and mothmen with ease

Logical1234
Dec 3, 2013

Ytlaya posted:

I like how you actually have (~5th palace spoilers) Zenkichi's boss as someone who isn't transparently evil in her motives and tells herself that she's "doing the right thing" and will change things from the inside once she has more power/influence, while still obviously doing bad things.

It's a pretty accurate representation of what happens IRL with positions of power like police or politicians. Someone has a bunch of personal incentives to cooperate with those in power, and they come up with whatever justification that allows them to still feel good about themselves ("if I play along, someday I'll have the power to change things!"). It's basically irrelevant what someone's intentions are, since in the end they're still facilitating a harmful system.


It also adds to the Self-loathing. While there is a ton of reasons Zenkichi is avoiding Akane, it's obivous one aspect of its is unconcious shame. Even people in law enforcement who actually want to or try to do what is right eventually have to make comprimise after compromise just to get anywhere. It's tragic in way. The people who want to do good are grinded down until they just accept the status quo. There are no 'good' cops. But there are ones who try to be, and eventually accept they CAN'T be. And it's tends to break them.

Basically in non-spoiler terms: Persona 5 Strikers still sticks to the 'screw the corrupt adults/system's theme, while also aknowledge the complexity at play.


The difference between explaining a person's actions verses excusing them.


....This is basically Persona 5 2..... And I kinda want more Persona game like this.

...

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
I always find it so weird that people like law enforcement are so accepting of what the PT can do.

"So this guy suddenly went comatose and died for absolutely no reason..must be the phantom thieves"

"This guy had a wild about-face and confesses his crimes. Definitely someone did this, because it's a thing that can be done."

I guess they could justify is as, like ...drugs, or coercement or something, but it's kind of ludicrous. Especially when they're like "Yeah this bunch of teenagers who spend more time going to school and movies has the ability to gently caress up a CEO of a corporation, this definitely makes sense."

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Morpheus posted:

I always find it so weird that people like law enforcement are so accepting of what the PT can do.

Huh? Both P5 and strikers show exactly why such organizations accept it. Those below the top do what they are told because it is a corrupt system whilst those at the top know it is them because understand that what they are doing is possible as they are using similar methods to achieve their own ambitions.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
Look, me and Lavenza are cool now, do I still have to be in dirty prison clothes when I visit the Velvet Room? Similarly, are there costume options in Strikers? Modern Persona & Musou games usually have them so I was expecting them here too.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

Morpheus posted:

"This guy had a wild about-face and confesses his crimes. Definitely someone did this, because it's a thing that can be done."

I guess they could justify is as, like ...drugs, or coercement or something, but it's kind of ludicrous.

They frame it as blackmail. "The Phantom Thieves threatened to kill/expose the person if they didn't confess." From what I understand, in the first game most of the dudes running the Palaces are kind of pieces of poo poo, which is how the Thieves get fans. Even if they're resorting to tactics like blackmail and threats (they aren't, but if you accept the police's narrative that they are) the people they do it to deserve it so who cares if their methods are dirty and underhanded?

That changes a bit here when they're (Jail 5 spoilers) framed for hacking EMMA to get their blackmail info and murdering the director, and the chatter you hear on the street changes to "They went too far this time!" "The Phantom Thieves really are jerks!" and stuff.

Ytlaya posted:

I like how you actually have (~5th palace spoilers) Zenkichi's boss as someone who isn't transparently evil in her motives and tells herself that she's "doing the right thing" and will change things from the inside once she has more power/influence, while still obviously doing bad things.

I really like that scene, yeah. She actually has a lot in common with Hyodo, because they both are going "If I don't do this, someone more corrupt will take my position, so I have to do this so I can try and do the right thing in the future." She knows what she's doing is wrong, but that if she declines her bosses will just choose someone who's even worse than her, and possibly even demote or fire her, and even more awful poo poo will happen. It's a tough moral decision and she's very clearly uncomfortable with it, but she's doing what she thinks will do the most good.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
I don't know if it's ever explained how much the police know/do not know or believe about the Metaverse. Near the end of P5 Sae certainly knows about it from Joker's interrogation, Shido confesses about his crimes in the metaverse, and whatever testimony Joker gives after Christmas is enough to convince the police he's broken his probation and land him in jail so presumably he again explained all the metaverse stuff as well. But later on when Sae goes to tell Joker he's free to go, she says that all the metaverse stuff got thrown out as being nonsense so Shido just got hit with corruption/bribery/blackmail/etc.

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

You see the most shocking sights sometimes
On the other hand (post final boss) Ichinose turns herself in for her part in creating EMMA and is immediately let go because they think she's making things up

Spiffster
Oct 6, 2009

I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...


Lipstick Apathy
AAAAAHHHHH VALJEAN!!!!

That was an outstanding awakening! Can’t wait to play as wolf

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



Game seems to have done pretty well with its worldwide release?

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"

BearDrivingTruck posted:

On the other hand (post final boss) Ichinose turns herself in for her part in creating EMMA and is immediately let go because they think she's making things up

There’s definitely got to be some people in the know, but it didn’t help things when Zenkichi cut her a break and told her that the police had better things to do than listen to fairy tales, so that buck probably stopped at whatever low ranking for officer she went to

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
I fought the super strong shadow in Jail 4 and now I'm nearly completely out of Rescue Pills. Those instant death attacks were frustrating. It's taught me a lesson though, I need to dump Samerecarm on anyone who has it in favor of regular Recarm. Since you can BotW this and just heal everyone with items while the game is paused mid-combat, there's no real reason to revive someone at full HP and the SP cost hurts bad.

Cooking is fun but ultimately it seems like rice is the bottleneck ingredient. Nearly everything that restores SP uses rice, or the limited coffee beans that show up rarely. I don't give a poo poo about HP restoring meals since I have about a thousand HP restoration items, so it would be nice if the SP restoration ones had a bit more variety. Because when everything uses rice, there's no reason for the 20 SP recipes to exist when you can just make the 40 SP ones.

Also I really like Jail 5's music, 4's is the absolute standout but 5 reminds me of something that might actually be in Samurai Warriors.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
Rice is only the bottleneck until you get to dishes that use crab

I always need more crab

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



The HP-restoring meals that affect the entire party and also give a buff are pretty useful, if you can hold onto a supply of those you don't really need to keep buff skills on your Personas.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
See the thing is one of the recipes that uses crab also uses rice. :v:

The other one doesn't though, so yeah crab is really important too.

Commander Keene posted:

The HP-restoring meals that affect the entire party and also give a buff are pretty useful, if you can hold onto a supply of those you don't really need to keep buff skills on your Personas.

That's a good point, I didn't think about that. I just kinda wish it was easier to remember what skill does what, the names aren't the best help, and I'm not a hardcore SMT player so I don't have them memorized.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
The catch is the buff meals don't last as long as the Persona-cast buffs (which can be extended through a Bond skill)

BearDrivingTruck
Oct 15, 2011

You see the most shocking sights sometimes
The real world markets also restock after every couple of fights, so buy that crab/rice

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Yeah, I remember having a lot of trouble with skill names back when I started the series. Here's a basic list from someone who's been playing these games for roughly the last 10 years (I'm sure you've figured a bunch of these out yourself by now, but it never hurts to be comprehensive, maybe someone else just starting the game will come across this list):
Attack elements:
  • Agi is fire.
  • Bufu is ice.
  • Zio is electricity.
  • Garu is wind.
  • Frei is Nuclear.
  • Psy is psychic.
  • Kou is bless damage.
  • Hama is bless instant kill.
  • Ei is Curse damage.
  • Mudo is curse instant kill.
  • Megido is Almighty (an element almost but not quite like non-elemental spells in other RPGs; very seldomly resisted).
  • -la/ga(on) is the second tier of spells.
  • -dyne is the third tier.

Buff/Debuff names:
  • Taru affects attack.
  • Raku affects defense.
  • Suku affects (in this game) crit/evasion.
  • -kaja spells are buffs.
  • -kunda spells are debuffs.
  • Tetrakarn reflects one physical attack back to the attacker (I don't know if it exists in this game though; I haven't seen any repels at all yet).
  • Makarakarn reflects one magic attack back to the attacker (same deal as Tetra though).
  • Tetraja nullifies an instant kill attack on the protected party member.
  • Concentrate causes your next magic attack (anything that uses SP and deals damage) to deal 2.5x damage. It doesn't seem to trigger off of the "free" spells on Persona combos in this game, only spells that actually use SP. I also don't know how exactly much it boosts damage when used as a Persona combo itself (Kaiwan has it as part of its combo string).
  • Charge causes your next Physical or Gun attack to deal 2.5x damage. I haven't gotten this on a Persona yet (though I have a skill card I haven't used IIRC), but I imagine it works the same as Concentrate.

Misc:
  • Marin Karin inflicts Charm/Brainwash (MITSURU!!!! :argh: ).
  • Dormina inflicts Sleep.
  • Dia/Diarama/Diarahan are healing spells. (Still waiting to see if they have the balls to give full-heal Diarahan out as a Persona combo skill :getin: ).
  • Spells with the Ma- prefix are multitarget (except Makarakarn. In Persona games only. It's weird).

And if you're curious, here's some Sirs Not Appearing In This Game (spoilered to prevent confusion):
  • Zan is Force spells (MegaTen tends to use either Force or Wind, Persona generally uses Wind).
  • Maka used to affect the damage of spells while Taru affected physical damage, but Maka got deprecated and Taru took its role.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
You also have Amrita for status healing, and Recarm for revival.

The second tier of spells is just weird naming wise, because you have Bufula, Garula, Freila, Zionga, Eiga, Kouga... and then just different ones altogether like Agilao, Diarama and Psio.

Honestly it's much better in P5(S) because anything that's non-status has a handy icon like fire or snowflake next to it so at least you can tell at a glance what element it hits or if it's a heal/buff/debuff. You then just have to work out buffs and debuffs.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!
I think the weirdest 2nd tier spell is how Agilao's MT version is Maragion. Except for the very, very, very rare times it decides to be Maragilao. I imagine that's got something to do with how it used to be Maha- and then the spell name, so Maha-Agilao would maybe just read weirdly or somethig.

Commander Keene posted:

Spells with the Ma- prefix are multitarget (except Makarakarn. In Persona games only. It's weird).

That's because it's Makarakarn, not Makarakarn. Just like how the Phys one is Tetrakarn, so it follows whatever the rule for -rakarn is in that game. That's possibly one of the least intuitive ones, to be fair, since (outside of the rare, old games where Makakaja/Makanda exist) you'll likely only be seeing Me- or Ma- as a MT signifier.

Once you get far enough in the game, you don't even need to remember what each one means because they'll have their own fancy special names for spells that ignore all the rules anyway.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I think JP still pronounces it as 'Maha' for the prefix? I vaguely remember JP Yukiko saying 'Maharagi' in P4A, but my memory of that game is a few years ago.

It's actually kinda neat hearing some JP pronounciations, because Caesar becomes Kaizer, Artemisia is pronounced as 'Aru-temisia', and Isis is 'Ee-sis'. I haven't heard how the JP cast handles the P5 Personas though. Goemon is Japanese so that's straightforward at least.

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Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
It's weird how I just parse all those weird elemental terms without even thinking these days, as opposed to back nearly two decades ago (loving hell) when I first picked up Digital Devil Saga and was like 'what the gently caress is a boofuh'

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