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HenryEx posted:There's kind of a catch to the data hints (human / gnosia), since they mean that YOU need to be that role to be able to unlock that note, not (as i assumed at the start) that the character needs to be on that side. Yeah this caught me out, I was stuck for ages trying to get the last data point for Comet, which has the human symbol, and went through probably 10 loops relentlessly trying to Cover, Collaborate, chat at night, everything I could think of to trigger it. I was on the verge of quitting when they got fridged on the very first round of the next loop, but this turned out to be the solution - I needed to be human with them as Gnosia. Pretty horrible ending too. Game good, I like how they wrap the main plot itself up but leave enough details hanging to give the whole thing a slightly surreal feeling, like looking at the cover of a 50s sci-fi book and trying to figure out the plot. Does everyone on Gliese dress like Raqio? More importantly,what does it mean that he had the key to start with? Has Jonas really lived for over 1000 years and if so how? Or is he just nuts? Why does he let the mold out in the ending where it kills everyone? What even is Yuriko's deal? Does she even exist? Is everyone already inside the Gnos simulation?  My only wish is that there were some way to keep track of all the optional endings like SQ's collar one or Gina's suicide one and how many you haven't seen, but maybe there'll be a youtube supercut at some point.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:26
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Gato posted:there'll be a youtube supercut at some point. It's this.
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Mar 25, 2021 20:41
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I think this could help the thread. I hadn't seen this stuff listed in any easy to read way. Logic/Performance 25 - Retaliate Charisma 10 - Step Forward 25 - Seek Agreement 40 - Block Argument Intuition 20 - Say You’re Human 30 - Don’t Be Fooled Logic 10 - Vote 15 - Don’t Vote 20 - Definite Enemy 20 - Definite Human 30 - Freeze All Charm 15 - Let’s Cooperate 25 - Regret Performance 15 - Exaggerate 30 - Seek Help Stealth 10 - Small Talk 25 - Obfuscate 35 - Grovel Also, my advice is to focus on Regret. This seems to be the most powerful skill that isn't hard to get/reach. I don't mean just put everything into Charm until you get there. But once everything is over 10 and you can do it, do it. It will make things much smoother.
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Mar 25, 2021 22:04
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Bugs can only be killed by cold sleep vote and engineers right? Gnosia cannot straight up kill bugs?
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Mar 25, 2021 23:01
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poe meater posted:Bugs can only be killed by cold sleep vote and engineers right? Gnosia cannot straight up kill bugs? Correct, it'll just say "no one died" as if a guardian angel saved someone. Which should make it really obvious what they were trying when your game doesn't have a guardian angel 
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Mar 25, 2021 23:06
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As for how Jonas is 1000 years old, it’s because he’s been in cold sleep for most of that time. Remnan is the same way where despite physically being 17 he’s technically managed to work on a spaceship for 50 years mod edit: spoiler Somebody fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 23:27
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Scrap Dragon posted:Spoiler Maybe hide this for those of us who haven't unlocked that information?
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Mar 25, 2021 23:49
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Gato posted:Why does he let the mold out in the ending where it kills everyone? He's a creepy rear end in a top hat who, uh, "investigates" bodies in cold sleep with some enthusiasm. Comet is also very clearly an attractive woman and you can figure the rest out from there.
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Mar 26, 2021 01:01
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Jonas is just nuts. Finding Kukrushka seemed to break his mind.
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Mar 26, 2021 01:13
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Yeah with Jonas I got the impression that everything he says regarding his heroic backstory is entirely bullshit and Stella saying that he's like this because of lack of safety protocols regarding deep space travel in the past is just bullshit covering for him. They mention that in setting AI does basically all the work for humanity so a crazy guy flying around in a ship doesn't seem that farfetched to me considering he doesn't actually pilot the thing.
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Mar 26, 2021 03:25
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Waltzing Along posted:I think this could help the thread. I hadn't seen this stuff listed in any easy to read way. Cool, if nobody minds I can give my opinion on these skills (spoiling it for people who want to find out by themselves) Retaliate Pretty cool, a "no u" that probably reduces Affection and increases Hate for the target so it's useful for making more sus whoever is accusing you. Pretty big requirements tho. Step Forward Honestly I would go for this early even if Charm is a bigger priority, AI tends to not step until D2 and it's important to know who the claims are to sus out evils and not let them make a claim D2 when the Doctor is dead. Seek Agreement Makes it more likely other people Agree with the argument, can be cool if you notice not many people support whoever is doubting/defending. Block Argument Ridiculous cost but with reason, it completely blocks most defense skills and makes it no one can defend/argue back. Only Obfuscate and Seek Help bypass this. Say You’re Human It's actually really good for the chance of confirming evils, but Intuition is too much take it or leave it. Don’t Be Fooled Same as before, it's an stronger Retaliate that only works on sus people but the cost is high for the unreliability of Intuition Vote/Don’t Vote Vote can only be used on targets found as Gnosia by Engineer but it works well, Don't Vote can be used whenever and makes it much less likely the target is voted so it's useful on both sides. Definite Enemy/Definite Human Can only be used if confirmed but very powerful, they make it so the target won't ever be voted by crew AND Enemy disables all defensive skills so they are pretty much guaranteed to be voted off unless you use Don't Vote in case you wanna go for the Bug Freeze All Way too hard to get and it's basically a trade between losing an ally and removing the Doctor-Engineer/Evils that lurk in the claims. Despite the name it only increases the likelyhood of them being voted, the Freeze Everyone only happens on multiple draws. Let’s Cooperate If the character likes you enough to accept they become pretty much an ally unless you turn out to be very sus. But not that useful to use on debates since AI will propose to collaborate at night, use it if you need to have a character like you for an event. Regret As Kukrushka shows, the most powerful defensive skill, probably increases the Affection of other characters to you so they come to defend you, an easy beeline if you keep getting voted off. Exaggerate I guess it makes the argument stronger in terms of Performance? Not that useful unless it's Yuriko/Kukrushka/SQ who have good Performance. Seek Help Doesn't feel really strong but it bypasses Block Argument so there's an use for that. Small Talk Pretty sure it reduces your Hate by a lot to the point Gnosia will only target you if they have no choice, and I think it works on all targets? At the very least I never get killed at night with this even with poo poo Stealth. Obfuscate Stops the current argument and is one of the defenses against Block Argument but pretty sure it doesn't mitigate the effects of Doubt. Grovel Meh, if you're getting voted off you hosed up somewhere and it probably has a low chance of working unless you have great stats, in which case WHY ARE YOU GETTING VOTED OFF.
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Mar 26, 2021 11:44
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Hearing how other people used skills has me convinced that you can really just play it any way you are most comfortable with. I ended up focusing on Intuition and Stealth to a lesser degree, and the combo of Say You’re Human and having the engineers step forward usually had the game solved by the middle of day 1. It did not make the best build for playing as gnosia, but you can lay low and do pretty well despite that, and you play as human or something else most of the time anyways.
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Mar 26, 2021 21:48
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Yeah with Jonas I got the impression that everything he says regarding his heroic backstory is entirely bullshit and Stella saying that he's like this because of lack of safety protocols regarding deep space travel in the past is just bullshit covering for him. They mention that in setting AI does basically all the work for humanity so a crazy guy flying around in a ship doesn't seem that farfetched to me considering he doesn't actually pilot the thing. The impression I got was his general backstory, at least, was accurate - no one seems to feel that him having spent 1000+ years total in cryosleep to be unreasonable, he's definitely been around at least as long as Shigemechi given their video game scene, and Stella/LeVi is pretty consistent in stating he's been classified as clinically insane due to severe brain damage (and it seems like it'd be a bit weird for someone with no past military connection to be classified that way). Cryosleep as a cause would also be supported by his weird fixation with it in general. The details are obviously completely unreliable, but I feel like that much can be trusted. One thing I do want to ask those who full cleared: am I correct that the end implication of the "Kukrushka/Remnan as guard" total kill is that it took place in a post-true end universe where SQ's mother is hanging around in the spare Kukrushka body?
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Mar 26, 2021 22:49
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Nick Buntline posted:One thing I do want to ask those who full cleared: am I correct that the end implication of the "Kukrushka/Remnan as guard" total kill is that it took place in a post-true end universe where SQ's mother is hanging around in the spare Kukrushka body? After seeing the true ending, I thought that maybe Kukrushka is and always has been SQ's mom, but I'm not sure if that's exactly where the story was going with regards to time travel. Also, I'm not sure how that would hold up to the in-universe conceit that encountering another instance of yourself causes the universe to collapse, since gnosia-SQ is supposed to be SQ's mom's showing through in SQ's body
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Mar 26, 2021 22:56
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True ending: I assume that is always the origin story of Kukrushka. In Jonas' story he talks about being given two dolls - one of which is mindless (presumably the original doll as made by the craftsman) and one of which miraculously has a soul (presumably SQ's mother after she was put in that body and sent through the portal). I do wonder if there are any other implications you can read into the true ending. Like could this evil soul-manipulating gnosia-infected doll actually be the "origin" of the gnosia in the first place, if she was sent 1000 years into the past? Could making sure she was sent back to create the gnosia have been Yuriko's aim all along?
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Mar 26, 2021 22:59
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I just picked this up, and I'm on loop 25 or so. I don't really know what I'm doing, but if these idiots would just listen to me, we'd win almost every time. Or, rather, I'd win almost every time.
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Mar 26, 2021 23:22
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WhiteHowler posted:I just picked this up, and I'm on loop 25 or so. Accurate to the real life game in every fashion.
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Mar 26, 2021 23:38
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Irony Be My Shield posted:True ending: I assume that is always the origin story of Kukrushka. In Jonas' story he talks about being given two dolls - one of which is mindless (presumably the original doll as made by the craftsman) and one of which miraculously has a soul (presumably SQ's mother after she was put in that body and sent through the portal). I doubt that. Yuriko is a fugitive from the group that cyberizes people, she probably wants nothing with the Gnosia unless infected, even if she dislikes being human. Her weird intuitions and powers are probably due to her knowing the process to cyberize people, so she's got real knowledge about conciousness (which is why she can respec your stats and delete your anti-sus defense). I'm not sure about Manan being the origin of the Gnosia, the point is Gnosia!SQ is actually Manan's consciousness taking over her body. That said "true ending is how Kukrushka is created" is totally true, the Remanan/Kukrushka ending is her getting back Remnan as a slave and killing every witness. I think the trick is that the Silver Key does not take you to "another world" but to another timelineof the sorts, it's very implied norma New Game Setsu you meet at the start is the Normal Ending one so she never went into another world, she looped back to the start and brought your body so everything would be consistent. Meaning Kukrushka is very likely trapped in the Gnosia loop, except she's clearly a psycho unable to connect to others so she'll never fill the Key and be forever trapped in a Werewolf game for the rest of existance.
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Mar 27, 2021 09:51
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:I doubt that. Yuriko is a fugitive from the group that cyberizes people, she probably wants nothing with the Gnosia unless infected, even if she dislikes being human. Her weird intuitions and powers are probably due to her knowing the process to cyberize people, so she's got real knowledge about conciousness (which is why she can respec your stats and delete your anti-sus defense). Fortunately, as Setsu points out, eternal youth is the only thing Manan seems to care about, so she may not mind that too much. I never quite put the pieces together on why Kukrushka killed everyone and why it specifically had to be Remnan alive for that ending before this post. Thanks for that.
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Mar 27, 2021 12:49
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I don't know why the "single-player" part of this game's summary didn't stick in my mind, I literally thought it was multiplayer instead.  gently caress it, I'm in. I'm looking for something with an intriguing and compelling story/mystery to sink my teeth into after BD2 was a disappointment story-wise. Does this game go in weird and unexpected places, have lots of twists 'n turns, etc.? That's the kinda poo poo I'm looking for.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:12
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Pollyanna posted:I don't know why the "single-player" part of this game's summary didn't stick in my mind, I literally thought it was multiplayer instead. Yes.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:12
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Gooooooood. 
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Mar 27, 2021 19:16
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Yuriko Good lord. It took me so long to unlock her third entry (escaped Shrine Maiden). Event Search had me in a loop as Gnosia with Remnan and Sha-Ming and they both have event chains. Each time I focused on one, they'd either get targeted or did something dumb and get iced. Finally got through with Remnan on the 5th try or so.
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Mar 27, 2021 23:55
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:
Yo, thanks, I just beat the game all the way and was wondering about that one scene. One question though: I'm still a little unclear about Remnan's relationship to Manan/SQ. She said he was her father-- what does that mean, exactly, and how does it square with his "raised on a planet only with AI?" At first I took it to mean something like: Remnan coded an AI that ended up capturing him and that AI put itself in SQ, thus making SQ Remnan's daughter. But SQ talks about how the immortalizing process can only work with your own genetic children, so now I'm not sure: maybe Manan was once human, mixed uh, SP's DNA with Remnan's to make SQ, and that's how he was her father. I guess the last possibility is the planet Remnan was raised on wasn't the planet where he was kept as a pet by Manan, but if we're assuming his nineteen years are outside of cryosleep that's a lot of poo poo for him to go through. Also Remnan's "and then he became a bloody revolutionary" ending was hilariously out of left field. I still feel like he's the character I have the least grasp on, since it's tied to SQ/Manan/Kukrushka. I like that the previous big mystery of Kukrushka can be pretty easily explained by "When she's Gnosia it's a timeline where Manan kept being a huge rear end in a top hat, when she's not Manan eventually chilled the gently caress out." Oh also the strong implication that the Gnosia are like, legit just aware that you the player are currently playing a video game. Anyway what are some fun unique loop ends people found? Someone mentioned a good one if you and Comet are the last two survivors as Gnosia, stuff like that.
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Mar 29, 2021 05:27
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DuckHuntDog posted:Hearing how other people used skills has me convinced that you can really just play it any way you are most comfortable with. I ended up focusing on Intuition and Stealth to a lesser degree, and the combo of Say You’re Human and having the engineers step forward usually had the game solved by the middle of day 1. It did not make the best build for playing as gnosia, but you can lay low and do pretty well despite that, and you play as human or something else most of the time anyways. Main issue I'd have with an Intuition/Stealth build is convincing other people to vote for the Gnosia. Early on most of my stats were in Intuition/Logic/Charisma, but because I had low Charm I had trouble getting other people to vote for Gnosia, even though I'd usually have an easy time identifying them thanks to "Say You're Human" (because people would turn against me if I tried to argue more than like once or twice per day, and if they turned against me I was usually doomed). I thought Charisma would let me convince other people, but it's apparently not that useful if your Charm is too low for you to speak without getting suspected yourself. Putting points into Charm until I got Regret was a game-changer because it let me do arguments without getting myself killed. It's basically impossible to get voted off before the late-game with Regret (it only really happens if it's the late-game and Gnosia have someone like Kukrushka on their side).
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Mar 29, 2021 06:47
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Digital Osmosis posted:Yo, thanks, I just beat the game all the way and was wondering about that one scene. One question though: I'm still a little unclear about Remnan's relationship to Manan/SQ. She said he was her father-- what does that mean, exactly, and how does it square with his "raised on a planet only with AI?" At first I took it to mean something like: Remnan coded an AI that ended up capturing him and that AI put itself in SQ, thus making SQ Remnan's daughter. But SQ talks about how the immortalizing process can only work with your own genetic children, so now I'm not sure: maybe Manan was once human, mixed uh, SP's DNA with Remnan's to make SQ, and that's how he was her father. I guess the last possibility is the planet Remnan was raised on wasn't the planet where he was kept as a pet by Manan, but if we're assuming his nineteen years are outside of cryosleep that's a lot of poo poo for him to go through. Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure Remnan comes from the same planet as Raqio (Raqio's ending mentions him doing a revolution with Remnan), and Raqio mentions his planet being an rear end in a top hat meritocracy. I'm pretty sure Manan started as human before she tarted trying to put her mind into her daughters, SQ was concieved by Manan raping Remnan because he was her sex slave (probably because that planet does that with low potential people) which is real hosed up compared to most things in the game, and it would fit with all the segments talking about Cyberization and how horrible it is if you can't pay to simulate your conciousness, which would fit Manan trying to get past that by possessing other bodies. Ultimately I don't think Manan/Kukrushka is actually a Gnosia, it's just that when SQ gets infected Manan takes the chance to hijack the body. Setsu simply did all of that in the True Ending because Manan is the worst, to get rid of the Silver Key and because it's a loop with only 1 Gnosia so they get rid of the infection more easily. On the topic of special endings, I discovered there's one a bit different if SQ wins the game as a Bug. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other endings like that that can only be seen if you lose with X characters at some roles.
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Mar 29, 2021 08:36
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I just finished it and I like how the story was sparse enough that everyone can come up with their ideas. I don't think Kukrushka is the origin of the Gnosia because Yuriko never really lies to you throughout the whole thing and Gnos never really gains anything with the ship - the end result of each loop is always Kukrushka getting kicked out into another universe and the group being free of infection. I think a lot of the story elements are literally as they're presented - interesting tidbits about each character that make you mull it over but don't really connect with each other. What exactly happened on that planet before Day 0? How did you survive your injuries and end up breaking the universe - was it Setsu handing you the Key? Why was Raqio carrying it? If you wanted to solidify the looping/connecting universes elements, wouldn't it have made it more sense for Kukrushka to be the one carrying it forward for the player and Setsu? Just what the gently caress was Yuriko besides a smug rear end in a top hat taunting you across the game? batteries! fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 00:58
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lol poo poo, I'm in a game where both Yuriko and Kukurshka are either Gnosia or one of the enemy human roles (Kukrushka is guaranteed Gnosia, Yuriko just had a detected lie). edit: And Raqio, holy poo poo worst possible characters to have as enemies
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Apr 1, 2021 05:42
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Events where you have to keep a specific character unfrozen to the end with them as Gnosia are the loving worst.  I finally managed Sha-ming's by turning the number of total players down to 8 and managing a double freeze when people couldn't decide between voting for the real engineer and an AC Follower engineer. Gina's continues to plague me(you'd think it'd be easier since I don't officially know she's gnosia & am a human myself, so there's no worrying about lying, but noooo), although at least she doesn't have as much text to buttonmash through when her 'please help me stay until the end of this loop' event pops up. e: and of course the first game after I say that, I manage to get that event & I didn't need to keep her around more than a day. Apparently Gina's so bad at lying she was repeatedly getting frozen immediately after the 'please keep me alive until we pass through the system' event. Haifisch fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 06:34
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Might be "cheating" but in the setup, set yourself as the guardian angel, ask the guard duty roles to reveal themselves, then restart if your target isn’t one of them. If they are, they will be confirmed human so can’t be frozen and you can protect them every night. Edit: wait nevermind, just saw the "as a Gnosia" bit ymgve fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 06:46
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Haifisch posted:Events where you have to keep a specific character unfrozen to the end with them as Gnosia are the loving worst. The Don't Vote skill is really powerful for that situation (or for when playing on the side of the Gnosia in general). If people start to get suspicious of the person you need to protect, just use Don't Vote on them once at the start of every day and people will usually target someone else as long as there's any other reasonable target at all. I was able to protect Raqio for like three consecutive days after they were revealed as a Definite Enemy by doing that. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 08:58
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Haifisch posted:Events where you have to keep a specific character unfrozen to the end with them as Gnosia are the loving worst. My worst was the one where SQ wants you and her to be the only people alive at the end, where you are Gnosia and she isn't. The first time that scenario popped up, she was Engineer and I had already counterclaimed her. I was like "this probably will not work out well."
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Apr 1, 2021 17:14
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That whole scenario is kind of weird. If anything you think SQ would be the least okay with Gnosia, considering they're the kind of digital possession she's on the run from. I guess maybe she doesn't know that? Oh, and GiantRocks, re: Raqio and Remnan-- I think they don't actually come from the same society. Raqio's home is always referred to as a "fleet" and Remnan said he grew up on a "planet." I could sort of see why Remnan wants to break the backs of the kind of technocratic people Raqio lives with but I don't really see the character development in Raqio to do that, they never seem to question their society's values. I guess off-camera they got close enough to Remnan that they started questioning things? Anyway, good to know the revolution was successful at least. The other really funny out of left field ending is "SQ became a private detective... for some reason" I can really see her doing the Columbo "...just one more thing" bit really well. Also, I wish there was a little bit more to Gina as a character. She gives you some good early background into some of the things going on in the universe and I guess I see the need to have "the normal one" as part of the ensemble but I never felt I got a good grasp on her. Lastly, someone was talking about Setsu having a pseudo-romantic relationship with the main character and I realized I don't know what the appropriate sarcastic term for a fictional anime nonbinary love interest is. Partneru? Lovero?
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Apr 1, 2021 18:18
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Digital Osmosis posted:Lastly, someone was talking about Setsu having a pseudo-romantic relationship with the main character and I realized I don't know what the appropriate sarcastic term for a fictional anime nonbinary love interest is. Partneru? Lovero? "Childhood friend"
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Apr 1, 2021 18:34
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Digital Osmosis posted:That whole scenario is kind of weird. If anything you think SQ would be the least okay with Gnosia, considering they're the kind of digital possession she's on the run from. I guess maybe she doesn't know that? I'm pretty sure the only people who know what the Gnosia are would be Yuriko, and the player/Setsu after Yuriko tells them; they're specifically a mystery for everyone else. SQ is kinda weird with affection, being born from a rape AND for the purpose of becoming her mother's new body so I wouldn't be surprised if she geniunely wanted a Gnosia as a partner, or something. And yeah, checking out the profiles Remnan comes from a planet of AI while Raqio comes from the Gliese fleet so I got that wrong. I'm guessing Raqio agreed with him because iirc he had problems with his non-binary identification (totally valid), the ending mentions he was "dissapointed with the strict regime" Finally, Setsu is just the Best. I think we can all agree on that. And I'm pretty sure their relationship with you is 100% romantic, she says "Thank you for everything" during normal end, which in japanese is equivalent to "I love you". Or so I've heard, it's the same situation as FFX but they translated the thank you as Love you. By the way, as I was checking that ingame I got an update, wonder what it was...
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Apr 1, 2021 18:37
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There's another scene that kinda touches on that stuff with Setsu a little, too; I think it's the one where you learn Retaliate. SQ thinks it's suspicious that you and Setsu have been spending so much time together, and Setsu quickly says that the two of you are lovers. SQ is like "wait, I thought you weren't even into sex" and Setsu replies "We have a spiritual connection". Afterwards, you and Setsu talk about it, they apologize for making up that story, and if you tell them you were glad to hear them say it, they get all smiley and blushy. Looking at Setsu's interactions with the MC as a whole, I felt it was pretty clear that Setsu feels a special emotional bond with you, even if what they're looking for isn't necessarily a conventional romantic relationship from the perspective of us here in 2021. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 03:49
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Loop Event Question Just did loop 78 and Yuriko challenged Setsu and I to take her down. We failed and I got sent to cold sleep. Will that event come back or what happens in that instance? I don't think it was triggered by relationships but could be wrong.
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Apr 4, 2021 15:23
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She'll be back to challenge you again if the setup is similar.
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Apr 4, 2021 15:54
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HenryEx posted:She'll be back to challenge you again if the setup is similar. Good to know. I'm still not sure how Event Search operates. One time I kept trying to get a specific character event and sticking with what Event Search gave me the first time, I kept getting the same setup (same gnosia allies). I had to do it three or four times. This time though, I went back in and the setup had changed and the event didn't kick off again.
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Apr 4, 2021 16:44
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You can never permanently miss an event, but they're not guaranteed to fire every time it seems(other events may take priority? I'm not sure how the game prioritizes things). Event Search sets things up so an event is highly likely to trigger, but it's still not guaranteed.
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Apr 4, 2021 19:00
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