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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Good to know, I’ll use this stuff later on.

Something I learned about Yuriko is that she never claims to be human, even if she isn’t Gnosia or a Bug. So that at least is unreliable for her.

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HenryEx
Mar 24, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer
Yeah, she has reasons to do that, tho i'm not sure if she told you about that already.

Also, technically Chipie also never claims to be human. :v:

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
As a solo game that's meant to be solved, I'm happy with the cast's foibles. Even when they're infuriatingly in your way.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I just saw Yuriko answer that she was “human, unfortunately“ so gently caress me I guess.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Ryanbomber posted:

What to do with fakeclaimers depend on your and their stats - high Logic players might want to wait until they make a mistake to Definite Enemy them, high Charisma players can just bully them into getting iced, low Performance fakeclaimers you can wait for other characters to catch onto lies, etc. Unless they're super charismatic, you can usually let them live for a few days without worrying about people following their false reports.

Also, if Shigemichi fake-claims Engineer, he will immediately go around reporting all his Gnosia buddies as human, so if you keep him around for a couple of days you can sniff out who the other Gnosia are.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

Thuryl posted:

Also, if Shigemichi fake-claims Engineer, he will immediately go around reporting all his Gnosia buddies as human, so if you keep him around for a couple of days you can sniff out who the other Gnosia are.

Yeah... he's just so garbage at the game that you can use his earnest defenses to out Gnosia as well.

Tip for anyone playing a game like this - if you're one of the bad guys, throw shade at other bad guys on occasion as well, and don't always leap to their defense. If one of your allies accuses someone, defend that person on occasion as well. Do what you can to make it seem like there are disagreements between you so that you're not lumped together as easily.

IceBorg
Oct 23, 2012

I KINDA DOUBT THAT!

Thuryl posted:

Also, if Shigemichi fake-claims Engineer, he will immediately go around reporting all his Gnosia buddies as human, so if you keep him around for a couple of days you can sniff out who the other Gnosia are.

Also from my experience, like 90% of the time, as a enemy he always fake claims a role, he never stays quiet so if he doesn´t claim anything he's probably human.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I'm always mystified by the idiots who fake claim in a game without a guardian angel

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Pollyanna posted:

I just saw Yuriko answer that she was “human, unfortunately“ so gently caress me I guess.

Nah, don't beat yourself up, Yuriko does have a tendency not to say she's human even when she is, it's a quirk of hers. So you did guess correctly at how she works.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
Can someone spoil for me what conditions you're supposed to use for the final loop? The one where the game doesn't tell you what kind of game you need to play? I have a guess but it's hard settings that I'd have to grind a lot to even get one win in and it'd be super annoying if it wasn't even right.

Haifisch
Nov 12, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

cheetah7071 posted:

Can someone spoil for me what conditions you're supposed to use for the final loop? The one where the game doesn't tell you what kind of game you need to play? I have a guess but it's hard settings that I'd have to grind a lot to even get one win in and it'd be super annoying if it wasn't even right.
Set the gnosia count as low as the game will let you. Literally.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Haifisch posted:

Set the gnosia count as low as the game will let you. Literally.

well now I wish I was clever enough to figure that out on my own, that would have been a really cool moment

alas

Rockstar Massacre
Mar 2, 2009

i only have a crazy life
because i make risky decisions
from a position of
unreasonable self-confidence
Literally the only time I ever admit I'm the engineer or doctor is if Yuriko fake claims it on day 1 because she'll bulldoze with the sole ability to tell people who's what.

the bad thing that happens if you don't claim a role only ever happened to me once across 120 loops, so gently caress it

HenryEx
Mar 24, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer

cheetah7071 posted:

well now I wish I was clever enough to figure that out on my own, that would have been a really cool moment

alas

If you go back out to the main menu, it will also give you a hint

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I got to help Comet realize her dream. :unsmith:

After I had to railroad the debates to keep her around so the idiot humans wouldn't realize she's a Definite Enemy. Can't believe that worked, thanks for being so trusting, Chipie!

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
Game's loving with me.

Setsu has requested I strike up a friendship with Raqio for reasons. Every single game since, Raqio either immediately gets dogpiled on day 1, even when nobody's doubting her, even when Shigemechi tries to claim a role and literally everybody's intuition flashes but they all just decide Raqio's sus instead, or, Raqio just isn't interested and never even shows up as a visit option. I guess this is a just keep playing and wait situation but you can't stop me finding this funny.

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



I mean Raqio is a piece of poo poo and very good at making people hate them. It's why they're my favorite.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019
There are some things that are just basic rules of the game. Kukrushka will always Regret, SQ will collab with your mother, Shigemichi is a terrible liar, Yuriko is a bitch and everyone will dogpile on Raqio for no reason.

If you have Let's Collaborate you can cover him D1 to raise affection and ask for a collaboration, and if it's the mission where you need them alive playing as Guardian Angel helps too.

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.


StarkRavingMad posted:

I'll lay it out (without spoiling the story) if people can't figure it out from that hint, since I never would have found this on my own if I hadn't stumbled across a spoiler, and it's worth seeing.

If you don't want to see the spoiler and want to figure it out for yourself, I'll say that you don't have to worry that you are losing out on the true ending by playing any particular way, you can't screw it up such that you are locked out of the second ending, so feel free to experiment.

Anyway, if you can't figure it out: After you get the first ending and the credits roll, you'll come back to the main screen with a different graphic behind the title. Start a new game in a new slot. I'm not sure if you need to name your character the same or have the same details, but I did. It should be pretty obvious what to do from that point.

Is the obvious bit after going through all the stater loops? I'm on 18 now and nothing has really changed so far

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

GiantRockFromSpace posted:

It's basically how stacked are the odds against you. I late game farmed 15 crew 1 Gnosia as Gnosia with no other evils and all the good roles and as long as your stats are high you can just gain the trust of a few members and pray the Guardian Angel misses. You can get hundreds of thousands of EXP even if it takes a bit.

15 crew 6 Gnosia no roles and AC Follower/Bug is not as good since putting a crew to cold sleep means Game Over and you also have to find the Bug.



You weren't kidding.

I managed to get Raqio collaborating again but there didn't seem to be any option to ask her about anything in particular? What are the requirements here exactly? (to clarify: Setsu asked me to ask Raqio about this Key business)

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Fedule posted:



You weren't kidding.

I managed to get Raqio collaborating again but there didn't seem to be any option to ask her about anything in particular? What are the requirements here exactly? (to clarify: Setsu asked me to ask Raqio about this Key business)

EXP scales with cycles, that being said 50k is the max cost for levelling one stat so that's almost a guaranteed level per run :v:

It's an event I think? It probably requires both of you to be Crew though, you basically get an event where they tell you to protect them and you have to win the game with both of you alive. Using Event Search I'm pretty sure it tweaks things so it comes more likely.

(I mean, I beat the game spamming Event Search and only playing with the settings for fun).


The Shame Boy posted:

Is the obvious bit after going through all the stater loops? I'm on 18 now and nothing has really changed so far

It's inmediately the first option of the game, you have to tell Setsu you remember the film you both watched so they know you are the normal ending protagonist.

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.


Ah, my eyes glazed over that option :v: ironically I was looking for something just like that! Just didn’t think it would be so immediate

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Alright I've been spamming Event search for a while but have kind of dried up in new leads. I was following a bunch of hints with Setsu for a while but those have ceased and now I have a handful of outstanding character sheet slots that need filling in. I have an idea of where I'm heading towards with the ending, but I still gotta finish these first. I dunno if it's possible but is there anyway I can get some hints with some of these?

SQ: 1. Her third one, where I can be any role. No idea.
2. Her 5th one where I need to be Gnosia. I thought maybe I needed to collaborate with her when she's human, or be on the same team as her as Gnosia but I don't THINK either of those has worked. There may be some other requirement involving victory but I'm not sure all the variations I've tried out.


Setsu: 1. Their last one where I need to be human. I'm kind of guessing this may be one of the last ones to start wrapping things up towards the ending but I'm not sure. I have tried collaborating with them just in case but haven't had anything pop.

Otome: 1. Her third one where I can be any role. No idea. E: Never mind this one popped up!

Remnan: 1. His fourth one where I can be any role. No idea.
2. His fifth one where I need to be human. My guess is I need to collaborate with him but I haven't yet even managed to do that. He always seems to hate me lmao.


And that's it, I've filled in everyone else so far. Any little pointers would be appreciated.

E: Setsu just chimed in again at the end of a loop and told me we needed some sort of "special condition" and now the event search doesn't work. :ohdear:

Regy Rusty fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 7, 2021

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
This was kinda mean from Raqio's logic homework. I immediately thought that the situation as reported was impossible since the game should be over if three Gnosia have been iced, and that I had to be misunderstanding the sequence of events, so I figured that maybe Gina, SQ, Setsu and Chipie were cold slept in that order, but the game would end before Shigemichi could actually examine Chipie. I hit the option to repeat the question thinking maybe it would lead somewhere but no. So then of course Raqio gets smug and explains to me the thing I just figured out.

very mild spoiler in image i guess




Then they ask another one which has an obvious right answer and accuse me of guessing when I answered their 50/50 question correctly. Thinking Raqio might have logic on lock but needs a catch-up in statistics.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Oooooh I got past my last stumbling block.

Fiddling with the settings and finding the new option by accident was pretty funny!

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Regy Rusty posted:


SQ:
2. Her 5th one where I need to be Gnosia. I thought maybe I needed to collaborate with her when she's human, or be on the same team as her as Gnosia but I don't THINK either of those has worked. There may be some other requirement involving victory but I'm not sure all the variations I've tried out.

I think this starts from a night event where you talk to her and she asks if you are hiding something. I'm not sure, but maybe she has to suspect you? If it isn't popping when you are Gnosia, try talking a little more so she may catch you in a lie. I'm not 100% sure if that is necessary, but it may help trigger it.

quote:

Remnan: 1. His fourth one where I can be any role. No idea.
2. His fifth one where I need to be human. My guess is I need to collaborate with him but I haven't yet even managed to do that. He always seems to hate me lmao.

I don't remember #4, I think it just kinda happened for me. For #5, it comes as a result of you (mild hint)using a particular command regarding him.

If you can't figure #5 out, here is directly how to make it happen. I ended up looking that one up since it wasn't happening naturally for me and I went like twenty loops with no idea how to trigger it. You have to use "cover" on him. Not defending him after someone suspects him, but the thing where you just pipe up out of nowhere with "I think Remnan is trustworthy" and everyone else goes "huh? I guess" because no one ever uses that command except when obvious Gnosia are backing each other up. After that there are some night events to get through it so try to keep him alive.

quote:

E: Setsu just chimed in again at the end of a loop and told me we needed some sort of "special condition" and now the event search doesn't work. :ohdear:

Mild hint if you get tired to trying to figure that one out: Try really messing around with the setup, it needs to be unusual.
(edit): looks like you got that one while I was typing!

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Yeah I got that one, thanks for the other tips! I'll work on SQ for now and then see if I can get Remnan to work.

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013



Fedule posted:

This was kinda mean from Raqio's logic homework. I immediately thought that the situation as reported was impossible since the game should be over if three Gnosia have been iced, and that I had to be misunderstanding the sequence of events, so I figured that maybe Gina, SQ, Setsu and Chipie were cold slept in that order, but the game would end before Shigemichi could actually examine Chipie. I hit the option to repeat the question thinking maybe it would lead somewhere but no. So then of course Raqio gets smug and explains to me the thing I just figured out.

very mild spoiler in image i guess




Then they ask another one which has an obvious right answer and accuse me of guessing when I answered their 50/50 question correctly. Thinking Raqio might have logic on lock but needs a catch-up in statistics.

You're supposed to just hit the button to continue dialogue without choosing the options presented. It's intentionally a trick question, one that would easily be given away if you had the option to say neither.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Ahh I finally figured out why I was stuck for so long on the last few characters.

The unmarked event I was missing from both SQ and Remnan was in fact the exact same one where SQ calls Reman her father. This is then a prerequisite for both SQ and Remnan's final events, which is why they weren't popping. I just kept having bad luck of not having the right combination of characters alive and in acceptable roles for the other even to show up. I'm on track now yay!

DemoneeHo
Nov 8, 2017

Come on hee-ho, just give us 300 more macca


I kept getting distracted by BD2 and MHR, but i finally reached the end of Gnosia last night. What a wild ride. Took me 125 loops to do so.

Getting past that final block was not intuitive at all, but it was a cool meta trick. Specifically (massive ending spoilers) having to start a new game after the credits roll.

I don't think i viewed all of the optional events, and i'm not going to bother going through them. But one event i wanted to see was the one where Stella allegedly kills Jonas because he didn't give her enough respect. If that event actually exists, i mean.

Is there a point where you level your intuition so high that you'd be able to pick up on every lie? I had like 31 intuition by the end, and yet somehow Comet was able to sneak a few lies past me sometimes.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

DemoneeHo posted:

Is there a point where you level your intuition so high that you'd be able to pick up on every lie? I had like 31 intuition by the end, and yet somehow Comet was able to sneak a few lies past me sometimes.

Nah, it's always random and I'm guessing characters with high Stealth are harder to catch up lying. You can end up catching the likes of Yuriko and Setsu lying but it's random. That's why Intuition is all or nothing.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I suspect that under the hood, characters make some sort of lie roll. If I notice a lie, chances are three other people did too. But the odds are stacked in favor of the liar because it wouldn't be any fun if the gnosia outed themselves every time they opened their mouths

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

And I'm finished! Plus I got the true ending. Good game!

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

cheetah7071 posted:

I suspect that under the hood, characters make some sort of lie roll. If I notice a lie, chances are three other people did too. But the odds are stacked in favor of the liar because it wouldn't be any fun if the gnosia outed themselves every time they opened their mouths

That said I think AI has a higher chance of seeing lies, even with 50 Int if I check the log I can see some lies the AI caught and I didn't. Makes sense since it gives characters like Comet a purpose, if she's gunning hard for someone she caught them in a lie (assuming she's not evil).

v Bad luck, you need them alive for the event.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
I have been binging hard on this game. I just got a fun event where Yuriko as a gnosia dared me and setsu to take her out and then immediately day 1 dog piled setsu and got them voted off. I even lasted to the very end against her with my endlessly loyal chipie ally and finally freezered her on the last turn but I still didn't get the payoff from that event.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
That's a very common outcome from that event. It's a hard challenge, almost like a boss fight.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Yeah I can think of that and one other challenge that are probably the two hardest to pull off in the game. Very satisfying once you succeed though.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I think I got that event like an hour after posting here that if Yuriko was Gnosia and I wasn't, I might as well give up. Definitely a very satisfying challenge to overcome

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

My opinion of Sha-ming improved after the reveal that he was raised by a bunch of monkeys.

Skill questions - is there any downside to using Exaggerate instead of Agree? And is the only difference between Seek Agreement/Exaggerate or Regret/Obfuscate ) that they scale off of different stats and affect different characters differently?

Edit: I've noticed that at least Yuriko frequently won't do "Say you're human" even when she's human. Otherwise that skill will almost always identify at least one Gnosia.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 7, 2021

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Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.

Ytlaya posted:

My opinion of Sha-ming improved after the reveal that he was raised by a bunch of monkeys.

Skill questions - is there any downside to using Exaggerate instead of Agree? And is the only difference between Seek Agreement/Exaggerate or Regret/Obfuscate ) that they scale off of different stats and affect different characters differently?

Edit: I've noticed that at least Yuriko frequently won't do "Say you're human" even when she's human. Otherwise that skill will almost always identify at least one Gnosia.

Generally, using a skill draws more attention than using a regular stock response, which draws more attention than doing nothing. Deciding when the utility is worth more than the attention is the important part. For example, using Deny when someone doubts you draws attention and usually raises suspicion a little, but also stops anyone from Agreeing with the Doubt. If you think you can make it work, using Regret instead of Deny draws more attention, but is likely to inspire more people to Defend you than would if you simply Deny.

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