Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!


Space? Robots? Gungans? Lions who are Jesus? You won't find any of that poo poo here. This is a thread for discussing the big questions, like who is Gothmog, are there one or two Glorfindels, and how much better is Rankin-Bass's Return of the King to Peter Jackson's? No longer will the Book Barn have a monopoly on elf chat.

Pictured: me and my boyfriend stealing in to start a thread



e: SA considers ë to be an invalid character in thread titles but I promise you all that I know the correct way to spell Fëanor.

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 26, 2021

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

COULD BALROGS FLY......

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

wait this is an actual question that I know I knew the answer to at some point but forgot, how do orcs reproduce? is it all asexual like the Uruk-hai?

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


I think Balrogs had wings but also I think that how gravity works means those wings probably wouldn't be sufficient to allow them to actually fly, not that such things would be a big deal to Tolkien.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

reignofevil posted:

I think Balrogs had wings but also I think that how gravity works means those wings probably wouldn't be sufficient to allow them to actually fly, not that such things would be a big deal to Tolkien.

yeah but if dragons could fly balrogs probably could definitely fly. I don't think they could fly though because then the balrog would of just flew over Durin's bridge

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






indigi posted:

wait this is an actual question that I know I knew the answer to at some point but forgot, how do orcs reproduce? is it all asexual like the Uruk-hai?

uhh lurtz def fucks

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Those spinny anti-arrow things from the Hobbit movies that the dwarfs used were dope and also hilarious because they were clearly invented as a gently caress you directly to the elves, and if you didn't like them for not being realistic you're a big nerd.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!


banned from Starbucks posted:

uhh lurtz def fucks

but is it for reproduction or just for pleasure?

Barudak
May 7, 2007



So like, after the second war of the ring do you think there are a bunch of Gondor middle bureaucrats with tactilol ranger gear?

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




The majority of what I know about Tolkien's world building at this point is from his nonfiction writing (letters, academic stuff) and the Blind Guardian album about the Silmarillion.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

but is it for reproduction or just for pleasure?

As much as Tolkien talks about elf-loving afaik he doesn't talk that much about orc loving other than that at one point it was the same, so presumably yeah.

Also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhmqtoUxqZg

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Tulip posted:

The majority of what I know about Tolkien's world building at this point is from his nonfiction writing (letters, academic stuff) and the Blind Guardian album about the Silmarillion.


As much as Tolkien talks about elf-loving afaik he doesn't talk that much about orc loving other than that at one point it was the same, so presumably yeah.

Also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhmqtoUxqZg

yeah but elves autoperish if they’re about to be raped, so idk how the first generation of orcs was bred in utumno given that they would have been direct offspring of the original elves, nor if you could even breed that trait out of them. maybe Melkor invented some form of IVF

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

do orcs go to the halls of mandos???

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1KbvBayqPH4

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Orcs are just elves who lapsed in their skincare regimen you can't trick me, woodsfolk!!

u brexit ukip it
Oct 30, 2004


Exciting Lemon

Tulip posted:

the Blind Guardian album about the Silmarillion.

an excellent album

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Tulip posted:

As much as Tolkien talks about elf-loving ...


am i forgetting some parts of the lord of the rings or is this in the silmarillion

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

am i forgetting some parts of the lord of the rings or is this in the silmarillion

Lol, Christopher Tolkien didn't let this poo poo into the Silmarillion. It was in Tolkien's other writings: letters and various musings on his many drafts of the Silmarillion that went nowhere. A lot of it is in the History of Middle-earth though.

Sylink
Apr 17, 2004



Glorfindel owns , as well as fingolfins death

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Sylink posted:

Glorfindel owns , as well as fingolfins death

yah agreed. freaking Hurin. way to go dipshit

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT BEING A JOYLESS CURMUDGEON WHO CANNOT ENJOY LIFE'S SIMPLY PLEASURES LIKE EATING AN ICE CREAM WHILST HAVING A SHIT


Tolkien handwaving contradictions away with 'an unreliable narrator did it' is honestly a very clever way to enjoy exploring worldbuilding without worrying about if you have every detail consistent at all times.

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





Tsaedje posted:

Tolkien handwaving contradictions away with 'an unreliable narrator did it' is honestly a very clever way to enjoy exploring worldbuilding without worrying about if you have every detail consistent at all times.

A lot of older novels had this obsession with documenting how the story came down to the audience, so it was a fairly well established trope even at the time. Modern writers usually don't go that direction because modern readers are completely willing to accept that the novel just exists. It's hard to have an unreliable narrator in a book that isn't narrated though.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

sweet geek swag posted:

A lot of older novels had this obsession with documenting how the story came down to the audience

this is the same instinct behind people posting what their precocious 8 year old supposedly said on Twitter

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!


you won't believe what my little hobbit buddy just did...

Tsaedje
May 11, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT BEING A JOYLESS CURMUDGEON WHO CANNOT ENJOY LIFE'S SIMPLY PLEASURES LIKE EATING AN ICE CREAM WHILST HAVING A SHIT


sweet geek swag posted:

A lot of older novels had this obsession with documenting how the story came down to the audience, so it was a fairly well established trope even at the time. Modern writers usually don't go that direction because modern readers are completely willing to accept that the novel just exists. It's hard to have an unreliable narrator in a book that isn't narrated though.

There's also inspiration from real world mythologies where there are different versions that don't line up perfectly because oral history + passage of time. How many balrogs were there? Thousands, a handful? He could change his mind to suit whatever story he wanted to tell. Unreliable narrator is probably the wrong term, but if you have the framing device that you're just recording a history/mythology that's been passed down you can get around any times you've changed your mind along the way with 'some accounts say this, others say that' and be done with it without any of it being 'wrong'.

Then decades later people can make a career out of clickbaity youtube videos debating what the correct number of balrogs is.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

I like the theory that Gandalf is Manwe

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth; I am a citizen of the world.




indigi posted:

this is the same instinct behind people posting what their precocious 8 year old supposedly said on Twitter

Attributing things you want to say to other people is a classic move. Dao De Jing, for example, is framed as "This super old super wise guy told this to a guard before he disappeared into the wilderness never to be heard from again." The Constitution of the Athenians is almost certainly by a "Pseudo Xenophon" who just pretended to be Xenophon. And of course one of the most famous pieces of Western fiction, Don Quixote, has a pretty elaborate framing device making fun of this whole process.

Tsaedje posted:

There's also inspiration from real world mythologies where there are different versions that don't line up perfectly because oral history + passage of time. How many balrogs were there? Thousands, a handful? He could change his mind to suit whatever story he wanted to tell. Unreliable narrator is probably the wrong term, but if you have the framing device that you're just recording a history/mythology that's been passed down you can get around any times you've changed your mind along the way with 'some accounts say this, others say that' and be done with it without any of it being 'wrong'.

Then decades later people can make a career out of clickbaity youtube videos debating what the correct number of balrogs is.

Tolkien's love of iron age poetry really does rule and it's a good approach to fiction to be like "nobody fuckin knows how many balrogs there were."

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









I love the random aside in the Hobbit that goblins are responsible for gunpowder

Meatgrinder
Jul 11, 2003

Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est


This is still my favorite thing anyone has ever written on any part of Tolkien's novels:

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

Meatgrinder posted:

This is still my favorite thing anyone has ever written on any part of Tolkien's novels:

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

this rules

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Gimli's grandfather is Groin

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!


Cease to Hope posted:

Gimli's grandfather is Groin

Gróin, please

It's pronounced "Grow-in"

indigi
Jul 20, 2004
I'M REALALY MAD I DON'T GET TO SAY THE R-SLUR ANYMORE


Pillbug

yeah that’s cause I’m growin when I see nanna gimli

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

This is my fireplace mantle. A map of Middle Earth, pleather LOTR books, and pipes from my grandfather and dad. I've only read everything but Return of the King which I'm in the multi-month process of reading it since I switch between books I'm reading constantly.





Don't judge me.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Gróin, please

It's pronounced "Grow-in"

Tolkien knew how people were going to read it.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 1 minutes!


Pennywise the Frown posted:

This is my fireplace mantle. A map of Middle Earth, pleather LOTR books, and pipes from my grandfather and dad. I've only read everything but Return of the King which I'm in the multi-month process of reading it since I switch between books I'm reading constantly.





Don't judge me.

I've judged you and I find you "enviable"

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Pennywise the Frown posted:

This is my fireplace mantle. A map of Middle Earth, pleather LOTR books, and pipes from my grandfather and dad. I've only read everything but Return of the King which I'm in the multi-month process of reading it since I switch between books I'm reading constantly.





Don't judge me.

This is classy as hell.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

reignofevil posted:

This is classy as hell.

I, on the other hand, am not.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Where are the pleather books from?

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I try not to look at maps of middle earth because it ruins the magic for me a little.

Thats said, drat thats a fine-rear end map. Wanna take that map out for dinner and let it order some lobster.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Barudak posted:

I try not to look at maps of middle earth because it ruins the magic for me a little.

I don't get that. Tolkien LOVED maps. Each book has like 5 maps in them. Plus, how does that take away magic from it?

Sorry but that's just a weird thing to say lol.

banned from Starbucks posted:

Where are the pleather books from?

It's the The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings: Deluxe Pocket Boxed Set from Amazon. Yeah they're a bit small but I wouldn't call them "pocket" sized. I really like them.

edit: oh it's vinyl. I don't know my materials. But it's supposed to mimic leather.

Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Apr 11, 2021

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply