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HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




YeahTubaMike posted:

They didn't make Nicole NEARLY unlikable enough. Everyone got along with her when they met her, she never yelled at him or acted domineering -- we never had a reason to dislike her, and the fact that she felt that marriage was a patriarchal institution (which, mind you, is something that we didn't know until just now) absolutely does not count.

100% agreed about Nicole. I like Carisi but he sounded like a total jerk when he was talking about her. Sheís way cooler than him anyway :colbert:

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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



YeahTubaMike posted:

OC thoughts:
And the complete lack of development of the two detectives only made Morales's death seem that much more shallow. :downs: We had no time to develop a connection, so we had no reason to care. They couldn't have had ONE SCENE in a previous episode where, like, Morales has to leave early and Bell's like "oh, is your sister okay?" or maybe Morales gets a phone call and his expression turns all somber and he says he has to go as he rushes out? I just don't understand. This would have taken like two minutes and it would have given us a shitload of context.

I'm going to give this show like five more episodes to either start making sense or get hate-watchably bad -- after that, I'm giving up. Life is short.

I think one of the biggest issues with Organized Crime is that it was never allowed to develop its own identity. Benson was in literally seven of the eight episodes this season. As long as it's living in the shadow of SVU, it's never going to fly.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




YeahTubaMike posted:

Overanalysis is basically my favorite thing in the world, so most of my posts in here are going to be long as hell.

Re: the most recent SVU episode...should I be spoiler-tagging episodes that are less than a week old? Anyway both of my issues with this episode center around the ending...

Issue #1: How the gently caress is a woman who has been terrorizing her family for years stupid enough to text her husband threatening messages DURING HER TRIAL? Did she WANT to get thrown in jail on the spot? It was all just way too convenient and odd, especially since she had apparently sent him a bunch of messages without anyone noticing and while glaring suspiciously at him.

Issue #2: Her sentence was lenient as gently caress, and I get that they were trying to demonstrate how female perpetrators of domestic violence aren't thought of as violent or scary as male ones, but the ending was still, like...not bittersweet enough. Everyone is just happy that she's being punished, which could have been good if it had been more cynical, but it wasn't. Plus, her poor husband is like "I won't keep you out of Matthew's life, but I will keep you out of mine." Like, okay, great -- so your son, who is terrified of your mean-spirited rage-filled rapist wife enough that the nanny is worried about him, will be forced to continue having visitations with her. Just great.

Also, whatever the hell the judge was on during the trial, I want some.

Re: the most recent OC episode, that scene where the woman stands up after giving Richard a blowjob and they immediately make out is one of the grossest things I've ever seen on network television, and I know there's a name for that particular act but I can't think of it and I'm not looking it up on UD at work.

My primary OC thoughts (again, I don't know if I should be spoiler-tagging these opinions but I'm erring on the side of yes):
- The only member of the squad with any personality whatsoever is Stabler. This makes the show very hard to get invested in.
- Holy poo poo, Gina really IS dead. :owned:
- I live in New York City -- how the flying gently caress was the Astor Place subway station empty in the middle of the god drat afternoon? :psyduck: Also, the complete emptiness of the subway station made literally everyone more suspicious. From the hacker girl LOUDLY handing her hot dog to "a homeless person" to a horde of extremely freshly well-dressed men convening on the platform, it's like everyone involved was actively trying to be as conspicuous as possible.
- There's a scene where a 6 train -- one of the older ones, with a white 6 in a green circle on the front -- pulls up, but when Stabler and Richard get on, the interior of the train is quite obviously one that a newer train would have.
- In the scene where Richard, Angela, and Stabler are talking about Stabler and Kathy not having true love or whatever, I thought/hoped Richard was going to say that Eli wasn't really Stabler's son. I'm really sick of the Benson/Stabler shipping nonsense.

Itís called snowballing (blowjob thing) and donít kink shame man.

Also, Iím totally hooked on the show and now must go back and watch all of SVU as well. Never seen it!

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."


I'm completely blanking on Nicole, had she shown up recently?

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

From what I can recall the only episode she has been in, is the one where she was introduced.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


So I've been intercutting my SVU eps with season 3 L&O eps and just found the first ep with Lennie in it!! Exciting, I'm ready to begin L&O proper.

Also, my commentary from discord: oh I really like the filmography of this l&o opening, two cops were on the street having a snack when they heard shots from down the street so they ran there - and the cameraman ran with them. It worked to show the urgency and panic of the situation, and now it goes back to steady-cam

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

StrixNebulosa posted:

Also, my commentary from discord: oh I really like the filmography of this l&o opening, two cops were on the street having a snack when they heard shots from down the street so they ran there - and the cameraman ran with them. It worked to show the urgency and panic of the situation, and now it goes back to steady-cam

You may want to check out The Shield if you like hand camera, aka shaky cam, stuff. It's also a great show.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



PaybackJack posted:

You may want to check out The Shield if you like hand camera, aka shaky cam, stuff. It's also a great show.

Homicide: Life on the Street was also shot entirely with handheld cameras.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Eeesh, season 3 of SVU has sucked more than the others so far. It's had some real bangers (Wrath, Redemption) but Ridicule, Execution and Popular are just making it so I don't want to keep watching. Doesn't help that they've been grouped so closely together, too.

Caesarian Sectarian
Oct 19, 2004

...



I recently watched the entire run of SVU and the only episodes that really tested my patience were when Rollinsí sister shows up.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me :(

Caesarian Sectarian posted:

I recently watched the entire run of SVU and the only episodes that really tested my patience were when Rollinsí sister shows up.

I dunno the end of the Stabler run and Danny Pino years are pretty trying.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Mooseontheloose posted:

I dunno the end of the Stabler run and Danny Pino years are pretty trying.

Yep. The descent into madness began with the Rape Van episode, which premiered the seventh season, I believe. By season 10, the show was like a porn parody of itself, and then there was the idiotic season 12 finale with the shootout in the squadroom. Neal Baer finally resigned as the executive producer after the end of 12, with Warren Leight taking over, and with the major cast shakeup, the series had a pretty decent breath of fresh air.

Until we got Rollins' batshit family and Amaro having the longest goddamn divorce ever and becoming Stabler 2.0.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Stablerís divorce felt like it went on forever too, and the episodes with him paired with Beck while Benson was pregnant undercover or whatever dragged a lot to me as well.

HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




Yeah, Amaro's problems went on for way too long and it was kind of a relief when he finally left.

I don't remember if this actually happened but lmao if it did:

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



HOLY gently caress posted:

Yeah, Amaro's problems went on for way too long and it was kind of a relief when he finally left.

I don't remember if this actually happened but lmao if it did:



Father Dearest, season 13.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me :(

Timby posted:

Yep. The descent into madness began with the Rape Van episode, which premiered the seventh season, I believe. By season 10, the show was like a porn parody of itself, and then there was the idiotic season 12 finale with the shootout in the squadroom. Neal Baer finally resigned as the executive producer after the end of 12, with Warren Leight taking over, and with the major cast shakeup, the series had a pretty decent breath of fresh air.

Until we got Rollins' batshit family and Amaro having the longest goddamn divorce ever and becoming Stabler 2.0.

Yah the Rape Van episode where there is a perfectly valid reading of that episode that Stabler caused the T-1000 to relapse and try and rape a girl is a REALLY bad episode. Is the audience decides the ending episode in there too? Ugh.

I also feel bad for both Adam Beach and Diane Neal's run on the show both deserved a better ending.

YeahTubaMike
Mar 24, 2005

*hic* Gotta finish thish . . .


Doctor Rope

fartknocker posted:

Stablerís divorce felt like it went on forever too, and the episodes with him paired with Beck while Benson was pregnant undercover or whatever dragged a lot to me as well.

Yeah, Beck never existed. She was just a fever dream as far as I'm concerned, although even my subconscious probably couldn't conjure up a character so devoid of charm or intrigue.

Timby posted:

Until we got Rollins' batshit family and Amaro having the longest goddamn divorce ever and becoming Stabler 2.0.

I love Rollins's batshit family :allears: Also, a guy I know played Kim's sketchy boyfriend that does drugs with her in Rollins's apartment, and it was hilarious because I did not know that until I saw the scene.

But yeah, Amaro's divorce was just so loving BORING. Ooooooohhh my god.

edit:

HOLY gently caress posted:

Yeah, Amaro's problems went on for way too long and it was kind of a relief when he finally left.

I don't remember if this actually happened but lmao if it did:



I have never seen Phantom of the Opera, I have only seen one parody of it (the "Phantom of the Telethon" episode of American Dad), and I had no loving clue that prison was even involved in any way.

HOLY FUCK
Mar 31, 2007

How does that make you feel?




Timby posted:

Father Dearest, season 13.

:lol: I love this weird-rear end show so much

thanks, Timby! :buddy:

SilentChaz
Oct 5, 2011


Mooseontheloose posted:

Yah the Rape Van episode where there is a perfectly valid reading of that episode that Stabler caused the T-1000 to relapse and try and rape a girl is a REALLY bad episode. Is the audience decides the ending episode in there too? Ugh.

I also feel bad for both Adam Beach and Diane Neal's run on the show both deserved a better ending.

Doubt was the audience decides the ending episode for SVU and it's from season 6. Criminal Intent had one too.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



YeahTubaMike posted:

I have never seen Phantom of the Opera, I have only seen one parody of it (the "Phantom of the Telethon" episode of American Dad), and I had no loving clue that prison was even involved in any way.

It isn't. Hence the joke.

YeahTubaMike posted:

I love Rollins's batshit family :allears:

The episode that finally got me to say "I'm loving done with Rollins' Rowdy Relatives" was the insanely convoluted one in which Kim shoots the on-again, off-again guy she's been seeing, and then it turns out that Kim had taken out a life insurance policy on him and listed Amanda as the beneficiary, causing Tucker at IAB to once again try to nail an SVU detective to the wall. I know it's only a 42-minute episode, but it felt three hours long.

There was also the one where Kim seduced, drugged and robbed a star violinist. :suicide:

YeahTubaMike
Mar 24, 2005

*hic* Gotta finish thish . . .


Doctor Rope

Timby posted:

It isn't. Hence the joke.

I thought the joke was that he went to prison for something other than stealing bread. Whoops.

quote:

The episode that finally got me to say "I'm loving done with Rollins' Rowdy Relatives" was the insanely convoluted one in which Kim shoots the on-again, off-again guy she's been seeing, and then it turns out that Kim had taken out a life insurance policy on him and listed Amanda as the beneficiary, causing Tucker at IAB to once again try to nail an SVU detective to the wall. I know it's only a 42-minute episode, but it felt three hours long.

There was also the one where Kim seduced, drugged and robbed a star violinist. :suicide:

I don't remember either of those, which is probably why I still love Rollins's Rowdy Relatives. :haw:

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



YeahTubaMike posted:

I thought the joke was that he went to prison for something other than stealing bread. Whoops.

The gag is that the woman screwed up. At the beginning of Les Miserables, Jean Valjean is finally released after spending 19 years in prison for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving family. There's no such thing in Phantom, unless you count the Phantom being an outcast and living in the sewers beneath the opera house as a metaphorical prison.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


So, I haven't watched a huge amount of Law & Order, but... am I off-base here, or does Jack McCoy strike anyone else as kind of bloodthirsty? I watched a couple of eighth season L&O episodes recently and McCoy just seems wildly aggressive in wanting to put anyone behind bars. Is there some character background I'm missing, or was this just a reflection of a broader push at the time to be "tough on crime"?

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003
crazy people don't like me :(

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

So, I haven't watched a huge amount of Law & Order, but... am I off-base here, or does Jack McCoy strike anyone else as kind of bloodthirsty? I watched a couple of eighth season L&O episodes recently and McCoy just seems wildly aggressive in wanting to put anyone behind bars. Is there some character background I'm missing, or was this just a reflection of a broader push at the time to be "tough on crime"?

They don't call him "Hang 'Em High" McCoy for nothing.

Basically Jack McCoy basically likes to win and views things like murder/assault/rape and attacking the relative peace people live in as so abhorrent that he'll use the law to protect it. It's also why he is kind of a berserker when another lawyer, officer of the court, or public servant breaks the bond.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

So, I haven't watched a huge amount of Law & Order, but... am I off-base here, or does Jack McCoy strike anyone else as kind of bloodthirsty? I watched a couple of eighth season L&O episodes recently and McCoy just seems wildly aggressive in wanting to put anyone behind bars. Is there some character background I'm missing, or was this just a reflection of a broader push at the time to be "tough on crime"?

Season 8 McCoy is also reeling from the death of Claire Kincaid, a former ADA he was sleeping with.

InsensitiveSeaBass
Apr 1, 2008

You're entering a realm which is unusual. Maybe it's magic, or contains some kind of monster... The second one. Prepare to enter The Scary Door.

Nap Ghost

Mooseontheloose posted:

They don't call him "Hang 'Em High" McCoy for nothing.

Basically Jack McCoy basically likes to win and views things like murder/assault/rape and attacking the relative peace people live in as so abhorrent that he'll use the law to protect it. It's also why he is kind of a berserker when another lawyer, officer of the court, or public servant breaks the bond.

The series finale has Jack go to the logical extreme: either the Teacher's Union lawyer gives up the info needed to find a teacher and the school he'll blow up; or Jack uses the "full weight" of the office instead, then resigns to help the grieving parents crush the union in a wrongful death suit, finally Jack steals the lawyer's wife.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

So, I haven't watched a huge amount of Law & Order, but... am I off-base here, or does Jack McCoy strike anyone else as kind of bloodthirsty? I watched a couple of eighth season L&O episodes recently and McCoy just seems wildly aggressive in wanting to put anyone behind bars. Is there some character background I'm missing, or was this just a reflection of a broader push at the time to be "tough on crime"?

In one episode McCoy indicts literally the entire Bush administration so he can charge a law professor with conspiracy when he can't get a murder charge to stick. It's his characterization that he'll do anything to win, and it's a source of tension between him and Cutter at the start of season 18 or whenever he replaces Fred Thompson.

There's also some premium liberal righteous-anger McCoy during a few episodes to do with the Iraq War, one to do with faulty bullet proof vests and another to do with veterans' hospitals.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


I just started season 9 and was reacquainted with Abby Carmichael

"no deals for anybody. let's hang 'em all" lol

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009







Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I just started season 9 and was reacquainted with Abby Carmichael

"no deals for anybody. let's hang 'em all" lol




Abbie Carmichael : This report says the child was 2 and a half years old, Marian was 13 months. They autopsied the wrong kid, send it back.

ADA Jack McCoy : Why don't you take yourself down and get acquainted with the medical examiner?

[cut to]

Dr. Elizabeth Rodgers : It's the same kid, bone age doesn't lie.


Greatest show.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


I'm watching the episode True North, and McCoy and Carmichael are obsessed with getting to put someone to death, it feels like McCoy almost thinks it isn't even worth putting the defendant on trial if he can't go for the death penalty


Does Schiff give them a bonus for every execution or what?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I'm watching the episode True North, and McCoy and Carmichael are obsessed with getting to put someone to death, it feels like McCoy almost thinks it isn't even worth putting the defendant on trial if he can't go for the death penalty


Does Schiff give them a bonus for every execution or what?

With the exception of Carmichael and Serena Southerlyn, Law & Order characters' positions on the death penalty are wildly inconsistent, largely depending upon the writer. McCoy gets a wicked zeal for someone getting the needle whenever possible, despite him witnessing an execution and being horrified by it in Aftershock (season 6 finale).

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Is there some character background I'm missing, or was this just a reflection of a broader push at the time to be "tough on crime"?

Besides all the character background already mentioned, the guy he replaced was a bit of a saint so a lot of his characterization is made to be in direct opposition of that.

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Timby posted:

With the exception of Carmichael and Serena Southerlyn, Law & Order characters' positions on the death penalty are wildly inconsistent, largely depending upon the writer. McCoy gets a wicked zeal for someone getting the needle whenever possible, despite him witnessing an execution and being horrified by it in Aftershock (season 6 finale).

Was there a writing staff or was it mostly outside writers selling to the show?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Was there a writing staff or was it mostly outside writers selling to the show?

Almost exclusively a core writing staff.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



I started watching the original in the last week or two and I'm hooked, just pulling episodes at random from the Briscoe and McCoy era. I really like how it's not so much a whodunit but rather seeing what kind of legal defense they're going to have to deal with. It's great how some episodes I'm stoked to see McCoy eat poo poo even when the defendant is guilty, but then the next episode I'm all "ohhhh poo poo, inevitable discovery bitch, your rear end is goin' to jail".

Death penalty episodes are the best because McCoy turns his assholery to the max.

YeahTubaMike
Mar 24, 2005

*hic* Gotta finish thish . . .


Doctor Rope

Weekend SVU marathons in the post-Stabler era are so disappointing.

Also, I saw Perverted Justice, the only episode whose title I can remember being named anywhere, and it was boring.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



YeahTubaMike posted:

Weekend SVU marathons in the post-Stabler era are so disappointing.

I don't know what's more aggravating: That after making a whirlwind leap from detective to sergeant to captain to lieutenant, the show still has to be all about St. Olivia even though at her present rank, she really should be in the background and appearing a few times an episode at most, or that SVU has gone back to being more of a soap opera than anything else, like poor Danny Pino's seasons when if it wasn't all about him having the longest, most drawn-out divorce in human history, it was about him being Stabler 2.0 and always getting himself right to the brink of getting beefed by IA.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



Do the detectives ever shoot their guns in this show? I haven't seen it once yet and so far I like how they don't rely on stuff like action sequences, maybe chasing a perp down the street at most. I get the feeling if it ever happens it's gotta be an oh poo poo moment and I hope it surprises me.

Wait, I just remembered the one where Lt. Van Buren ices an intellectually disabled kid. She was off duty and being mugged for that one though, but the ensuing poo poo show was an alright hook for an episode plot.

InsensitiveSeaBass
Apr 1, 2008

You're entering a realm which is unusual. Maybe it's magic, or contains some kind of monster... The second one. Prepare to enter The Scary Door.

Nap Ghost

Coxswain Balls posted:

Do the detectives ever shoot their guns in this show? I haven't seen it once yet and so far I like how they don't rely on stuff like action sequences, maybe chasing a perp down the street at most. I get the feeling if it ever happens it's gotta be an oh poo poo moment and I hope it surprises me.

Wait, I just remembered the one where Lt. Van Buren ices an intellectually disabled kid. She was off duty and being mugged for that one though, but the ensuing poo poo show was an alright hook for an episode plot.

Green does it off camera in his last episode. It also leads to Anthony Anderson's character investigating him, then moving from Internal Affairs to replacing Green at the 27 in the next episode.

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Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



That sounds like a good way of handling it, like the one where Briscoe is under scrutiny about what may or may not be a false confession. Maybe it's because I'm watching them out of order but Briscoe and Green's antagonism in that one was a bit over the top, although I like how they showed how it's because Lennie's getting up there in years and it's getting to him but they don't beat you over the head about it.

Just finished Patsy and drat that was a good one. McCoy saying gently caress it and being held in contempt was awesome since I was pretty sure he was intentionally going for a mistrial so that the woman in the coma could be called as a witness whenever she wakes up. Then they close it with finding a hair in the trunk of her car and facing the prospect of two Ls in one episode Jack is all "y'know what, who cares. We'll deal with it if she wakes up".

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