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Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007



Back Arrow is the Xenogears anime I always wanted.

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Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011



Julias posted:

I've enjoyed what's been put out of the anime so far, but it's not anything mindblowing.

Also the decision to light beam censor the Manjis, you know, the thing the gang is named after, in some airings was really stupid.

If it was really going to be an issue, they should have just done what the Miike movie did and changed it.

LibrarianCroaker
Mar 30, 2010


OnimaruXLR posted:

Is it airing anywhere else (outside of Japan and Asia)? I wouldn't be surprised if the censorship kept up, or alternately they could air a Blade of the Immortal style notice at the beginning of each episode



Amusingly, the blade of the immortal anime from a couple of year ago just redesigned the manji to avoid that.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



if a disclaimer is sufficient for shows with on-screen rape, i feel like there's no reason they can't just do that for some harmless symbols.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



for real. trying to censor it out is just racist and imperialist, lol.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

I don't think either of those words would apply in this instance and I think devalues the meaning of the words regardless of how one feels about the situation.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



Depends, there are definitely assumptions being enabled through an act like this no matter from whose decision, but itís worth noting that CRís statement on their releasesí censorship has historically been ďwe used the footage the studio gave usĒ whenever questioned

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Raenir Salazar posted:

I don't think either of those words would apply in this instance and I think devalues the meaning of the words regardless of how one feels about the situation.
nah it is

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



also 'regardless of how one feels about the situation?' its unambiguously terrible. theres no grey area.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Endorph posted:

nah it is

You're suppressing possible discussion that could be had over the issue by reflexively tarring anyone who has nuance opinions on the issue as "racist" and/or "imperialist" which creates a chilling effect on discussion. No one is occupying Japan with military force to get to make these changes, by appealing to hyperbole laden claims you poison the well for constructive discussion. I'm not sure what the facts of the situation are but I don't think anyone is currently occupying Japan with military force in order to affect their localization decisions.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Raenir Salazar posted:

tarring anyone who has nuance opinions on the issue as "racist" and/or "imperialist" which creates a chilling effect on discussion.
lol

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



sure i don't see a need to immediately jump to heavy concepts or w/e but i also don't see what useful nuance there is to the situation. some level of pressure, soft or hard, resulted in a hasty and awful recut of the show being made for Crunchyroll specifically. there isn't really a benefit to this as the production doesn't have the lead time to edit unobtrusively and it just brings into question what is being hidden and oh no, the horrible secret is out! the secret that due to fears of bad PR or just ceding to ignorance they made these changes.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

dogsicle posted:

sure i don't see a need to immediately jump to heavy concepts or w/e but i also don't see what useful nuance there is to the situation. some level of pressure, soft or hard, resulted in a hasty and awful recut of the show being made for Crunchyroll specifically. there isn't really a benefit to this as the production doesn't have the lead time to edit unobtrusively and it just brings into question what is being hidden and oh no, the horrible secret is out! the secret that due to fears of bad PR or just ceding to ignorance they made these changes.

I mean the importer company recutting it to suit their own audience I don't think is either of those things; it can be silly or dumb to act in their business interest in this way without it being imperialistic.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



Raenir Salazar posted:

I mean the importer company recutting it to suit their own audience I don't think is either of those things; it can be silly or dumb to act in their business interest in this way without it being imperialistic.

i mean do you not see why people would immediately smell some degree of cultural imperialism on this? an American company blasting all depiction of an Eastern spiritual/religious symbol out of a work, to the point of compromising it, solely based on Western sensibility. this was the route they chose rather than others that would be less obtrusive and take less effort while allowing the differing cultural context to stand, such as a disclaimer. granted the recut is something they'd probably be offloading to some link of the chain they don't care about so considerations like that don't really rate past the initial decision made of whether to nuke the symbol or not.

the situation only gets fuzzy if this was self-motivated from the JP side, but considering other services have unedited versions it's hard to say if they just knew to specifically cater to stupid Americans or what.

dogsicle fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 16, 2021

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008



The cuts are made japanese side, scenes are totally different which is not something crunchy is capable of. They donít just have light flashes, but scenes that are zoomed in or focused on different characters to avoid showing it. This is also confirmed by a french crunchy twitter post

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

dogsicle posted:

i mean do you not see why people would immediately smell some degree of cultural imperialism on this? an American company blasting all depiction of an Eastern spiritual/religious symbol out of a work, to the point of compromising it, solely based on Western sensibility. this was the route they chose rather than others that would be less obtrusive and take less effort while allowing the differing cultural context to stand, such as a disclaimer. granted the recut is something they'd probably be offloading to some link of the chain they don't care about so considerations like that don't really rate past the initial decision made of whether to nuke the symbol or not.

the situation only gets fuzzy if this was self-motivated from the JP side, but considering other services have unedited versions it's hard to say if they just knew to specifically cater to stupid Americans or what.

IIRC if it isn't affecting the original broadcast in Japan; it isn't an American company affecting a foreign country's culture. I'm not sure what the definition we're working with is here; but it sounds to me that it is far too broad in its usage here. There needs to be an actual tangibly provable element of harm towards the country and culture of origin.

If it did affect the original broadcast, the question is was it capitalism or did the US government. If it's capitalism then its just amoral market and economic forces, the invisible hand of the market resulting in the commodification of creative works to appeal to mainstream audiences of which the US market is one of the largest in the world; I believe Crispin Freeman had an interesting talk about this, but that isn't imperialism, that's people on the Japanese side acting according to their economic interest. People on twitter didn't yell at them into doing it.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Idolhood is realized in the face of death



The clear moral of the story is gently caress nazis, they ruin everything

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



so i've been generous to people having a broader interpretation of imperialism and you're a pedant. got it.

Davincie posted:

The cuts are made japanese side, scenes are totally different which is not something crunchy is capable of. They donít just have light flashes, but scenes that are zoomed in or focused on different characters to avoid showing it. This is also confirmed by a french crunchy twitter post

i did forget about the France CR thing, though i guess i shouldn't have focused on the source of the edits much since it matters less than the motivating factors in them being made for why people are angry.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





I mean, one of the basic functions of localization is to convey intent, not just literal meaning.

If you don't want viewers going "Is that a Nazi symbol? Are we supposed to think these guys are Nazis? The symbol looks a little different, but...", then changing things makes sense, because leaving things intact creates a distraction that means the audiences get an experience further from the creator's intent. It can still be done badly, but that's a question of execution, not morality.

Accusing people of imperialism over stupid crap like this just turns the conversation into a pedantic discussion of imperialism and removes any weight to the term going forward.

marumaru
May 20, 2013





i'm really loving To Your Eternity and Vivy. after Vivy's last episode, TYE might actually have taken over as my current AOTS. it's beautiful.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

dogsicle posted:

so i've been generous to people having a broader interpretation of imperialism and you're a pedant. got it.


i did forget about the France CR thing, though i guess i shouldn't have focused on the source of the edits much since it matters less than the motivating factors in them being made for why people are angry.

I am not saying "It isn't cultural imperialism because it isn't from the cultural imperialism region of France" I am saying it isn't cultural imperialism because there merely being some change in a product from another culture or country in its transference to another.


chiasaur11 posted:

I mean, one of the basic functions of localization is to convey intent, not just literal meaning.

If you don't want viewers going "Is that a Nazi symbol? Are we supposed to think these guys are Nazis? The symbol looks a little different, but...", then changing things makes sense, because leaving things intact creates a distraction that means the audiences get an experience further from the creator's intent. It can still be done badly, but that's a question of execution, not morality.

Accusing people of imperialism over stupid crap like this just turns the conversation into a pedantic discussion of imperialism and removes any weight to the term going forward.

This.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



It was a cringe change.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Raenir Salazar posted:

I am not saying "It isn't cultural imperialism because it isn't from the cultural imperialism region of France" I am saying it isn't cultural imperialism because there merely being some change in a product from another culture or country in its transference to another.


This.


chiasaur11 posted:

I mean, one of the basic functions of localization is to convey intent, not just literal meaning.

If you don't want viewers going "Is that a Nazi symbol? Are we supposed to think these guys are Nazis? The symbol looks a little different, but...", then changing things makes sense, because leaving things intact creates a distraction that means the audiences get an experience further from the creator's intent. It can still be done badly, but that's a question of execution, not morality.

Accusing people of imperialism over stupid crap like this just turns the conversation into a pedantic discussion of imperialism and removes any weight to the term going forward.


Raenir Salazar posted:

IIRC if it isn't affecting the original broadcast in Japan; it isn't an American company affecting a foreign country's culture. I'm not sure what the definition we're working with is here; but it sounds to me that it is far too broad in its usage here. There needs to be an actual tangibly provable element of harm towards the country and culture of origin.

If it did affect the original broadcast, the question is was it capitalism or did the US government. If it's capitalism then its just amoral market and economic forces, the invisible hand of the market resulting in the commodification of creative works to appeal to mainstream audiences of which the US market is one of the largest in the world; I believe Crispin Freeman had an interesting talk about this, but that isn't imperialism, that's people on the Japanese side acting according to their economic interest. People on twitter didn't yell at them into doing it.

Raenir Salazar posted:

You're suppressing possible discussion that could be had over the issue by reflexively tarring anyone who has nuance opinions on the issue as "racist" and/or "imperialist" which creates a chilling effect on discussion. No one is occupying Japan with military force to get to make these changes, by appealing to hyperbole laden claims you poison the well for constructive discussion. I'm not sure what the facts of the situation are but I don't think anyone is currently occupying Japan with military force in order to affect their localization decisions.


Raenir Salazar posted:

I mean the importer company recutting it to suit their own audience I don't think is either of those things; it can be silly or dumb to act in their business interest in this way without it being imperialistic.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



Mix.
Jan 24, 2021

Huh? What?



Here's my thoughts on the season now that we're like halfway through:

Still Watching:
OddTaxi - Favorite of the season still. Possibly AOTY, too. The way all the characters are interconnected and bounce off each other and the gradual deepening of the mysteries make me confident this is gonna stick the landing if nothing else. Gives me incredible Paranoia Agent vibes in the best way possible.
86 - Desperately hoping this will stick the landing, but so far so good. Possibly going to be in the top five for the year, if it can keep it up. I appreciate that it's actually one of the best critiques/dissections of fascism that we've gotten in recent seasons and isn't trying to both sides anything, at least from what I've seen so far. (Fingers crossed.)
Mars Red - Still very nice to watch visually. I really like seeing the combination of the supernatural vampire stuff set against the industrial 1920s setting, and I'm also appreciating that it's got a more mature tone with the action being an accent rather than the main focus. Very funny to see people who are mad it ISN'T an action anime, though. That said, the dub is loving insane- the decision to make the journalist lady and her boss have a weird cockney/valley girl accent hybrid in the EARLY 1900S IN JAPAN loving kills me any time they're onscreen because of how jarringly weird it is.
Vivy - Do I really need to talk about this one lol. It's good! We all know it's good. Not my favorite this season but I'm definitely enjoying it!
Shaman King - I was always gonna like this because SK was one of my favorite manga as a kid, and the adaptation is fine. It's okay! I dunno if it's gonna pick up any new fans that weren't already into the original, but depending on how it adapts future content...
TWEWY - Same vein as Shaman King. Even though trying to shove the entire story of the game into one cour is an insane undertaking, I was always going to like it because of how big TWEWY was for me when it first launched.

Dropped:
Dragon Goes House-Hunting - More of just 'put on hold indefinitely', if I decide I wanna ever watch any more of it down the line I might finish it up, but I've had my fill for now.
Shadows House - :shrug: I dunno, it just didn't hook me. I didn't dislike it, it's just not really my thing I guess? Gave it the old three episodes try and everything.
Saint's Magic Power is Omnipotent - I just wanted a nice anime about making poo poo with magic, why'd it have to be a harem :eng99: Its not actually bad or anything, I just...am not interested in those kind of stories lmfao

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

This season has been jammed packed with good stuff; that stuff I'd have watched during another season just don't have time for.

Watching:
Thunderbolt Fantasy
My Hero Academia.
Vivy
Shadow House
86
I'm a Spider So What
Nomad
Hige wo Soru

Inconsistently watching/a few episodes behind:
Nagatoro
300 years slime hunting
Super Cub

More or less dropped:
full dive
childhood friend wins love comedy show thingy
Koi to Yobu

Will check out eventually:
Blue Reflection Ray

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeeey




Man my watching is really inconsistent right now. But I'm definitely watching a bunch of shows, including Super Cub, Thunderbolt Fantasy, Vivy, Slime killing, Iruma-kun, Megalobox, probably a few others I forget.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


The change was fine. Hell, they even changed the way they wrote Manji's name with Kanji from using the swastika to using 「万次」instead.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


What if they made the manji a swirl like four candy canes?

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008



Wark Say posted:

The change was fine. Hell, they even changed the way they wrote Manji's name with Kanji from using the swastika to using 「万次」instead.

they deserve to be cut to death for touching Hiroaki Samuras art

Splode
Jun 18, 2013

~chill yourself~


I'm watching:

Vivy - it's good!!
86 - also good, as others mentioned it really depends on if it can stick the landing though.
Megalobox nomad - I was wrong earlier this is even better than the first season. The boxing is superbly animated too.
MHA - this is turning into a show that could really do with an abridged version, like DBZ Kai. It's also very funny how insanely fascist it is.
Spies will be dispatched - It's dreadful. I'm going to drop it after giving it far too much time to find it's feet.
Zombieland saga - More of season 1. I feel like this season is less funny than the first one, but it's possible I'm just growing tired of it.

kater
Nov 16, 2010



I just realized I'm hate watching MHA.

Please save me Bakugo.

Jymmybob
Jun 26, 2000



Grimey Drawer

Agreeing with most lists but Godzilla Singular Point should be showing up more. It's really really good and feels like the most complete execution of anything this season, even considering great stuff like Vivy.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Idolhood is realized in the face of death



Splode posted:

I'm watching:

Vivy - it's good!!
86 - also good, as others mentioned it really depends on if it can stick the landing though.
Megalobox nomad - I was wrong earlier this is even better than the first season. The boxing is superbly animated too.
MHA - this is turning into a show that could really do with an abridged version, like DBZ Kai. It's also very funny how insanely fascist it is.
Spies will be dispatched - It's dreadful. I'm going to drop it after giving it far too much time to find it's feet.
Zombieland saga - More of season 1. I feel like this season is less funny than the first one, but it's possible I'm just growing tired of it.

Explain, I'm now morbidly curious

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Willo567 posted:

Explain, I'm now morbidly curious

I think it might have something to do with the Hero system but I can't see anything remotely :umberto: about MHA so I'm also curious. Japanese society in MHA seems the same as IRL Japan except there's furry people and super powers.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


I'm pretty sure it's just because heroes work with law enforcement but there's a pretty overt throughline about how the current society is letting people down and in many ways responsible for creating villains.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS



Jymmybob posted:

Agreeing with most lists but Godzilla Singular Point should be showing up more. It's really really good and feels like the most complete execution of anything this season, even considering great stuff like Vivy.

Blame Netflix

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Jymmybob posted:

Agreeing with most lists but Godzilla Singular Point should be showing up more. It's really really good and feels like the most complete execution of anything this season, even considering great stuff like Vivy.
It's in Netflix jail so it won't be legally available for most people until it's done. Be sure to remind people how great it is then.

it is really great btw.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


kater posted:

I just realized I'm hate watching MHA.

Please save me Bakugo.
Don't hate-watch shows. That's legit kinda lovely for you. Unless it sets up a funny bit.

Just re-watch something you like instead or hell, stop and "ask for directions". I mean, we do have a recommendations thread with plenty of regulars who recommend stuff.

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Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


kater posted:

I just realized I'm hate watching MHA.

Please save me Bakugo.
Do you hate MHA or this class competition arc?

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