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Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Ibblebibble posted:

Dynazenon just had it's equivalent episode to Gridman's ep 9 aka the best episode of anime that year and it was amazing as hell.

To give a sharply dissenting view, I was incredibly disappointed by episode 10, as I have consistently been with near everything in Dynazenon. I was let down by Gridman, everyone I knew hyped it to the ends of the earth and when I watched it I found it was just a pretty good anime series. Dynazenon, meanwhile, has barely managed to reach 5/10 television and the most recent episode has been no help. The episode of Dynazenon from last week was actually really good and bumped the show up in my estimation, but hoo boy did I not like this one. Gridman episode 9 was indeed masterful and was definitely the best episode of that show by leaps and bounds. Dynazenon episode 10 is not that. Dynazenon's version is way too loud, totally unsubtle, resolved itself in a pretty boring and obnoxious way, and I am sorry but the cast has not been fleshed out enough to carry the episode in the way that the show desperately wants them to. It honestly feels to me like they did this episode only because Gridman did it, not because they had a good idea to develop the characters because my hot rear end take is that they didn't and moreover largely haven't. There was no one like Akane here to grounds the episode, and we learned nothing new about 90% of the cast. To put it another way, there is absolutely a reason Minami got the majority of the scenes, it's because she's the only one the show is actually been doing things with and more's the pity because they seem to have resolved her storyline in a pretty underwhelming way. At least we didn't have to get shots of the consistently lame rear end villains after the intro.

Dynazenon has consistently struck me as a show that thinks it is done far more than it has and that is really really disappointing. I was pulling for the show going into it, but it appears that the show is just going to continue to be an inferior reheated also ran of Gridman. Again, I'm not super up on Gridman but that show is leagues ahead of Dynazenon in just about every way. I was never superduper impressed with Gridman's cast, but man am I remembering them so much more favorably now...

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The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?


I mean, if you dislikes Gridman I donít know why you thought Dynazenon would be amazingly different and I have zero idea why youíre still watching 10 episodes in. Stop watching?

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤


I really quite enjoyed the first Gridman, but I agree that Dynazenon is coasting on the laurels of its predecessor. It's a likeable cast and I appreciate the slice-of-life style pacing, but none of the character payoffs have felt earned. Several characters have had their arcs resolved in a single episode by outside forces.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



it wasn't really pushed as a sequel and i don't think the experience of watching a show that is bad or you dislike has no value. especially not when sharing those experiences in a discussion.

certainly for a show with so much praise already, i value seeing some counter viewpoints. i like gridman more than op but it is also interesting to see some of my own feelings on how dynazenon isn't living up to that echoed by someone who didn't like either show.

Tales of Woe
Dec 17, 2004



this episode was cool but i don't think its that comparable to gridman 9 in terms of its role in the story, just in terms of visuals and delivery.

i haven't found dynazenon's back half as compelling as what gridman pulled off with akane and i doubt it'll get there but it's still a good show with the same great directing.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



nah dynazenon is rad

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007




Dynazenon is weird for me as it's had some good episodes that I like but as a series I find it lacking compared to Gridman. In Gridman right now we had an idea what the end game plot was going to be before now and was leading to it where as I find....Dynazenon aimless so far.

Also Akane is way more interesting as a character than Yomogi who's so far just been bland lead

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



i don't think dynazenon's really trying to have a big thematic statement the way gridman did perse, i think its just trying to explore the characters. i like the characters a lot, but if they aren't doing as much for you then it'd make sense to not be as into it.

however i will say that it's very notable that nobody's mentioned gridman's actual protagonist when talking about gridman having better characters.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


I agree that Yomogi is a conspicuous weak link in SSSS.DYNAZENON but comparing him to Akane is ridiculous and wilfully missing a lot about both shows.

The thing Dynazenon is having is that the central relationship in SSSS.GRIDMAN was Rikka and Akane. It was very aware that Yuta was there to fight. The focus relationship in SSSS.DYNAZENON is between Yomogi and Yume, and this episode more than ever Yomogi isn't really holding up his end.

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007




Endorph posted:

i don't think dynazenon's really trying to have a big thematic statement the way gridman did perse, i think its just trying to explore the characters. i like the characters a lot, but if they aren't doing as much for you then it'd make sense to not be as into it.

however i will say that it's very notable that nobody's mentioned gridman's actual protagonist when talking about gridman having better characters.

Yuta in Gridman is really just meant to be the action hero and the show clearly frames it that way. And it works as the show spends the character time with the more interesting Akane and Rikka.

Whereas in Dynazenon Yomogi is meant to be more of a character and the show just hasn't sold me on him being more than "Good Guy"

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


I went a bit up and down on last week's episode but combined with this one it feels a little like having written all these interesting checks for its cast, Dynazenon is trying to cash them all very quickly before the finale.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


The best thing about Gridman was its ED.

I kid, of course. I loved Gridman and IIRC it was my #2 show of 2018. :) On a more serious note: Gridman and Dynazenon are one of the few shows with its own dedicated thread and mayhaps this discussion might be all the richer if done inside of the aforementioned thread.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




The Black Stones posted:

I mean, if you dislikes Gridman I donít know why you thought Dynazenon would be amazingly different and I have zero idea why youíre still watching 10 episodes in. Stop watching?

I was really pulling for it to better, I wanted to like the drat show. Gridman was a show that could have been truly great but never managed to stick the landing or fully assemble all of its pieces. In my estimation it was within a hair's breadth of truly being as great as everyone always said it was, something I could unreservedly love and admire and respect and so I came into Dynazenon hoping against hope that with a couple years more experience and some hindsight that Trigger would nail the sucker and be Gridman at its full potential. And it isn't and that is downright tragic in my mind.

But you're right, if they're making another sequel I'm passing on it. I can only keep on with so much disappointment.

Squidster posted:

I really quite enjoyed the first Gridman, but I agree that Dynazenon is coasting on the laurels of its predecessor. It's a likeable cast and I appreciate the slice-of-life style pacing, but none of the character payoffs have felt earned. Several characters have had their arcs resolved in a single episode by outside forces.

So much of this! Thank you so much. The cast had real potential and I was pulling for them. It's not like I'm happy that I watch every episode of Dynazenon going "this isn't working, you didn't set this up, this dynamic is undercooked, I don't believe this at all," to nearly every major character scene. Again, I wanted to like this show so badly, and I can't. I really just can't.

Endorph posted:

i don't think dynazenon's really trying to have a big thematic statement the way gridman did perse, i think its just trying to explore the characters. i like the characters a lot, but if they aren't doing as much for you then it'd make sense to not be as into it.

I would like these characters more if they did anything with them because I maintain that they have done almost nothing with 90% of the cast of Dynazenon. On the hero side Koyomi had a sequence of scenes that didn't amount to anything and Chise is pretty much defined by being left out. In a show that opened strongly by stating it was going to be about these people they haven't really done anything with most of them yet, and it's been 10 episodes so don't think they ever will. Meanwhile the villains are incredibly boring to a man.

Also, I have absolutely no love for Gauma, I find him both boorish and a bore, and the fact that the show seems to be trying to wrap the final central storyline to him feels like a complete mistake. He feels a lot like Kamina from Gurren Lagann with two caveats, firstly Kamina was way more charismatic, and secondly he died for the good of that show.

And after dropping a big old hot take it feels offkilter to go "I'm not trying to stir up any trouble", but it's kind of true. I don't actually like rocking the boat all that much. There's a reason I'm not in the Dynazenon thread talking about the show because I actually don't want to get in some long fight over and anime that I find kind of depressing. At the same time, when I hear people talking about Dynazenon I start feeling like I'm on crazy pills because what's wrong with me? Everyone is watching this awesome sounding show and I'm tuning in to a lukewarm 5/10 series that doesn't really come together.

I will say with absolute, complete honesty that I wish I could see the show everyone else sees in Dynazenon, but I don't. And that's basically all I have to say.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

This week's episode of shamisen anime left me pretty confused about the protagonist's family tree.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013



It's okay for something to just not catch with you, lol.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Endorph posted:

however i will say that it's very notable that nobody's mentioned gridman's actual protagonist when talking about gridman having better characters.

What do you mean, people talk about Akane all the time

In all seriousness Dynazenon's biggest weakness for me is that after 10 episodes Yomogi is maybe only a half-step more interesting as a character than Yuta was despite Dynazenon presumably not planning on echoing Gridman's twist of Yuta being an empty cipher literally being one of the final twists of the show, and all the interesting stuff about the rest of the cast suffers from being filtered through the perception of a bland dude just kind of helicoptering around the whole thing. Like this week's episode is unambiguously a successor to Gridman's standout dream episode, but where in Gridman each of our protagonists - even bland, empty Yuta! - had to individually confront and choose to reject Akane's depressive solipsism by themselves and for their own reasons, in Dynazenon they're all just actively pulled out of it by the most boring character in the show. I actually groaned out loud when, after seemingly starting to finally give Yomogi some actual personal conflict to engage with in his own dream world, he just snaps out of it by himself because "I GOTTA SAVE MY GIRLFRIEND."

The visual execution is as immaculate as Gridman's but the emotional core of the show feels safer at best and downright dull at worst.

Also Gridknight and Ano's new designs are cool and I don't dislike having them around but I can't help but notice that they haven't....actually....done anything? Besides punch stuff I guess.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Omnicrom posted:

At the same time, when I hear people talking about Dynazenon I start feeling like I'm on crazy pills because what's wrong with me?
this is not a normal reaction to being lukewarm on a show people like, lol, theres no need for these melodramatics and its uncomfortable and weird. i dont care if you dont like the show i care that you're making it a passion play.

also, him snapping out of it is the resolution to the conflict. iunno, i like yomogi a lot, he's a really fun character. maybe its because im listening to the sound dramas too? hes pretty funny and hes a sweet kid, hes not leaping off the screen or anything but i like him a lot, i think him just kind of being a normal guy who can be a bit lovely sometimes and doesn't always know what to say but he cares about people is like, relatable. i think if he were a big personality it wouldn't work as well.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jun 4, 2021

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?


dogsicle posted:

it wasn't really pushed as a sequel and i don't think the experience of watching a show that is bad or you dislike has no value. especially not when sharing those experiences in a discussion.

I mean, yeah there really isnít a value to watching something you donít like if your goal is to be entertained. If you donít like something, stop watching it. Iíve stopped watching plenty of anime because Iíve gotten bored or I think it sucked or whatever reason. Watching it just so you can be a part of some discourse isnít worth it. The OP clearly has seen enough and hasnít liked it that they can clearly drop the show and still have enough to contribute on why they think itís bad.

Heck, I stopped watching the killing slime show from this season because I realized when I fell 4 episodes behind that it was boring and i wasnít interested in all at what it was doing. Dropped and didnít look back.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



honestly yomogi reads to me like a male version of rikka, in that his role is to just be a relatively reasonable, normal person who has a few foibles and personality flaws but isn't really going to experience a huge dramatic shift. the main difference is that most of the characters around him are also pretty reasonable, since dynazenon is a more lowkey show. its mostly about like, regrets, what-ifs, the realization that all you can really do is move on with what you have in front of you. its more a gradual perspective shift, not the big dramatic turnaround of gridman. even this episode isnt nearly as cathartic as gridman was - some details even go out of their way to make things less dramatic, less worldshattering. that sort of storytelling difference could definitely read a lot duller to some people and thats fair but im really into it personally.

its also strange to see people refer to this show as an alsoran or a reheat of gridman when the primary complaint seems to be that there isn't an akane equivalent, which is an obvious choice to get it away from gridman thematically.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jun 4, 2021

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Endorph posted:

honestly yomogi reads to me like a male version of rikka, in that his role is to just be a relatively reasonable, normal person who has a few foibles and personality flaws but isn't really going to experience a huge dramatic shift. the main difference is that most of the characters around him are also pretty reasonable, since dynazenon is a more lowkey show. its mostly about like, regrets, what-ifs, the realization that all you can really do is move on with what you have in front of you. its more a gradual perspective shift, not the big dramatic turnaround of gridman. even this episode isnt nearly as cathartic as gridman was - some details even go out of their way to make things less dramatic, less worldshattering. that sort of storytelling difference could definitely read a lot duller to some people and thats fair but im really into it personally.

The two problems I see with this are 1.) Rikka wasn't the main character in Gridman, whether you think of Akane or Yuta as the protagonist, and I at least didn't necessarily expect her to carry the same sort of emotional weight that I would of a good protag and 2.) I wouldn't actually say that the rest of the cast is "more reasonable" than Gridman's at all. Gauma's obviously a Loud Ridiculous Trigger Man From Fantasy Land, Chise and Koyomi are hikki dropouts with obvious and massive social issues, and Yume is of course dealing with grief over her sister in ways that are explicitly driving antisocial behavior at the show's outset. This is all fine and I actually thought it was a more promising start at the show's outset. The problem is that then your lead character whose eyes we spend 90% of our time looking out of is just....fine. The protagonist of the show entitled "Scarred Souls Shine like Stars Dynazenon" doesn't actually seem to have any particular scars as of 10 episodes in, aside from some *extremely* vague awkwardness with his stepdad that we've done next to nothing with since episode 1. And that's...not....bad, per se, it certainly doesn't actively strike me as lovely or ethically wrongheaded like a lot of the stuff that drove me away from the back half of Wonder Egg, for example. It's just....kinda dull IMO?

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


There's nothing wrong with Yomogi, but he hasn't earned any of the big moments where he smashes perspective into everyone else just by existing and being nice, and we still have almost no visibility into his own problem or in what sense he's a subject of the regrets/friendship thing. Unless they're saving that for a connection with Gauma at the very end? But come on, Gridman was laying the groundwork for Anti and Rikka long before this point.

I don't think this show is a retread of Gridman at all, but I'm not sure what it is. This episode just snaps that into focus because, from what I'm gathering from a lot of people like this, it feels extremely sudden and the episode itself seems to be using style to add weight that isn't landing.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



i mean like i said that's just a taste thing. yomogi's deal with his family clearly weighs heavy on him, they've done enough visual storytelling with that, its just also not something the show is going to resolve explicitly because thats just how life is. this ep is the closest we're gonna get to that from him and that's fine.

and i was mostly thinking akane when i said 'more reasonable,' because she's the cause of like almost all conflict in gridman, both literally but also the conflict between characters. if you remove her from the equation and don't really have any equivalent character then everyone as a whole comes across way more reasonably and balanced, because they aren't reacting to someone like her.

like idk, yomogi to me absolutely reads as scarred, hes just coping in his own kinda awkward teenage way. im really into that. if you dont see him that way or arent into that kinda handling of it, thats totally cool, but i don't think it's like, a mistake on the show's part, exactly.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Also just for the record I don't think Dynazenon is bad at all, it's just a disappointment relative to the extremely high hopes I had coming off of Gridman. Basically all my complaints with the writing are less "this is bad" and more "this could have been more pointed or interesting than it is". Getting an A- when I hoped for an A+.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



The Black Stones posted:

I mean, yeah there really isnít a value to watching something you donít like if your goal is to be entertained. If you donít like something, stop watching it. Iíve stopped watching plenty of anime because Iíve gotten bored or I think it sucked or whatever reason. Watching it just so you can be a part of some discourse isnít worth it. The OP clearly has seen enough and hasnít liked it that they can clearly drop the show and still have enough to contribute on why they think itís bad.

Heck, I stopped watching the killing slime show from this season because I realized when I fell 4 episodes behind that it was boring and i wasnít interested in all at what it was doing. Dropped and didnít look back.

i feel like this is more parallel to the issue because you qualify it as an issue of seeking enjoyment, when that's just one particular goal/path a person can have when engaging with something. not even like "hatewatching is valid," just people may run into conflict with something but find value in experiencing and exploring that/the reasons why.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Endorph posted:

honestly yomogi reads to me like a male version of rikka, in that his role is to just be a relatively reasonable, normal person who has a few foibles and personality flaws but isn't really going to experience a huge dramatic shift. the main difference is that most of the characters around him are also pretty reasonable, since dynazenon is a more lowkey show. its mostly about like, regrets, what-ifs, the realization that all you can really do is move on with what you have in front of you. its more a gradual perspective shift, not the big dramatic turnaround of gridman. even this episode isnt nearly as cathartic as gridman was - some details even go out of their way to make things less dramatic, less worldshattering. that sort of storytelling difference could definitely read a lot duller to some people and thats fair but im really into it personally.

Yeah, it feels relevant that the dreams in Gridman were all dramatically rejected, while the ones here were mostly allowed to... play out.

One thing that I think influences how people feel about Dynazenon is that it, even more than Gridman, tends to go for maximum economy in scenes. You get one scene to perform a given function in the story, maybe just one shot or even one line. And if that works for you, it's great. Something like Chainsaw Man can wrap up its main arc in just 90-some chapters since it's willing to be absurdly economical in its storytelling. But if it doesn't work for you (and even done well, there are people it won't work for) then it feels shallow at best, or even outright confusing. (Again, Chainsaw Man. One of the twists midway into International Assassins left a lot of people very confused for weeks)

I think I don't like Dynazenon as much as Gridman either (although there's still the conclusion to shift things either way) but I respect how willing it is to keep things minimal.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Oh the other thing I'll say about Dynazenon - I think it really suffers from not having as clear a villain as Gridman did with Alexis Kerib. By episode 10 of Gridman I knew more or less exactly what Alexis' deal was and I loving loathed him for what he represented. The Kaiju Eugenecists are much more vague and difficult to invest in IMO.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


The Eugenicists are cool (don't take this out of context), the show's just playing its cards super close to its chest with them as well, considering how late it is (this is still 13 episodes, right?)

I don't know, maybe the show will hard focus on paying off Yomogi, Gauma, Juuga and Sizumu in the last few episodes and we'll come back to this with different feelings.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



weekly back arrow update: how the gently caress are they ending this show in 2 eps lol

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




dogsicle posted:

weekly back arrow update: how the gently caress are they ending this show in 2 eps lol

I have no goddamn idea, but I will be riding this train all the way to the last station. By which I mean, I am completely there for whatever massive, stupid cluster gently caress trainwreck the show ends on because, seriously, how else is this ending?

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

kater posted:

Lmao spider really did it the crazy bastards.
What'd it do

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

dogsicle posted:

weekly back arrow update: how the gently caress are they ending this show in 2 eps lol
Two episodes seems like enough since there's really only two things left to do: 1) finish revealing Arrow's origin 2) kill God.

marumaru
May 20, 2013





SatoshiMiwa posted:

In Gridman right now we had an idea what the end game plot was going to be before now and was leading to it where as I find....Dynazenon aimless so far.

i enjoy that because it means that it's more character-centric than plot-centric

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008



cubby update: not satisfied with causing a national outrage by breaking the law with their cub driving, the girls drank alcohol this ep. koguma has also become a real delinquent, frequently ordering shii-chan around. by the end of the season i fear koguma's behavior will escalate to extremes, perhaps she will even become a hired assassin. sadly, while its one of the most popular series in japan currently, being featured even in national newspapers both as an object of recommendation and discussion, its popularity has not yet made the same inroads in the west, perhaps due to the western anime fanbase's greater immaturity.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




I got a real kick out of the little disclaimer text in Super Cub this week. And even more of a kick when it came back the second time.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Davincie posted:

cubby update: not satisfied with causing a national outrage by breaking the law with their cub driving, the girls drank alcohol this ep. koguma has also become a real delinquent, frequently ordering shii-chan around. by the end of the season i fear koguma's behavior will escalate to extremes, perhaps she will even become a hired assassin. sadly, while its one of the most popular series in japan currently, being featured even in national newspapers both as an object of recommendation and discussion, its popularity has not yet made the same inroads in the west, perhaps due to the western anime fanbase's greater immaturity.

i liked the ann review where the author seemed almost completely incapable of processing that the character had depression.

quote:

Koguma lives such a spare, lonely, and silent life that at first, I was convinced that there had to be some shoe that was going to drop that would explain why we were spending so much time watching this girl listlessly drift from scene to scene. If there is something more to Koguma's life beyond her simply being an incredibly boring person, though, it isn't apparent here in this story.

Nemo2342
Nov 25, 2007

Have A Day





Nap Ghost


Apparently not be as good as Gridman 9?

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

工官官心三官工官官心三😒


Wow, wasn't expecting my drive-by late night hype post was gonna get this much discussion.

I do agree that Yomogi breaks out of his dream really quickly, but I think there's a reason for that. He's already processed his parents's divorce and his mum's boyfriend and taken concrete steps to being more independent from them, makes sense that he's not as tied down about it.

wielder
Feb 16, 2008

"You had best not do that, Avatar!"

Sindai posted:

Two episodes seems like enough since there's really only two things left to do: 1) finish revealing Arrow's origin 2) kill God.

Yeah, this week was like one of those last cast reunion scenes that JRPGs have before going to the final dungeon, so two weeks seems like enough time to wrap it up.

Rather low key episode in comparison to the previous couple, since we needed to catch up on some exposition and loose ends, but I suppose that also means we'll likely get another big action sequence as a finale.

wielder fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jun 5, 2021

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Ibblebibble posted:

Wow, wasn't expecting my drive-by late night hype post was gonna get this much discussion.

I do agree that Yomogi breaks out of his dream really quickly, but I think there's a reason for that. He's already processed his parents's divorce and his mum's boyfriend and taken concrete steps to being more independent from them, makes sense that he's not as tied down about it.

Yeah.

I think that something important about the title scarred souls shine like stars. A scar isn't a wound. It's a place where the wound was, something that healed even as it left a mark.

Yomogi's got his pain, but he's mostly getting through it.

Moving from the show to the context of the discussion, I find it really interesting how the same people who weren't getting much out of Dynazenon are really enjoying Back Arrow (which I'm not hating at the moment, but it still doesn't do much for me). Going back to my mention of economy, it's something Gridman and Dynazenon leaned heavily into. Meanwhile, Back Arrow goes in the opposite direction. Everything is made very clear, scenes repeat exposition, and characters outright say their deal all the time.

While a character like Yogami needs you to pay close attention to get anything beyond "nice guy, likes girl", pretty much everything about Back Arrow's cast is right there in the open.

Reminds me of an image I saw comparing how One Piece and Chainsaw Man do plot twists.

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Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

工官官心三官工官官心三😒


I like both Dynazenon and Back Arrow. It's me, the anime centrist.

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