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Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


FilthyImp posted:

Full Dive RPG bringing its SSS+ tier animators to the game



To be fair, that shot's like two seconds long and a quick joke. There are worse places to cut corners.

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Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011



dogsicle posted:

[*]comedy giving me the vibe of a bad adaptation: Uramichi Oniisan

yeah ngl I don't entirely disagree with this. I'm reading it so if the anime doesn't really add anything to the experience I'll just stick to the manga.

Doodles
Apr 14, 2001



Well, I've been looking at the listings and I'm thinking I'll go with the following:

Cheat Kusushi no Slow Life: it's that kind of Isekai I like where a person gets a chance to live a non-exciting life and put together something resembling a family. Not looking for the greatest story ever told, just a nice one. I was worried things could get a bit loli with that wolf girl, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that in the manga so I'm hoping the anime will be the same. I was going to watch "Shin no Nakama Janai" for similar reasons, but that's been delayed to the Fall.

Jahy-sama wa Kujikenai!: It doesn't start until August, and I think it's just a one-shot, but it looks like just enough silly for me.

A couple of folks have told me Isekai Shokudou season 2 is supposedly this Summer, but I can't find anything beyond the 4/23 announcement of it coming. Still, I loves me some food porn, so if it does come out now I'll be watching it.

And of course, Maidragon S. One of my all time favorites, the Mini-Dragon episodes this Spring have been a delightful amuse bouche for the main series, and I can't wait to watch the next level of craziness.

Hoping for a fun summer.

kater
Nov 16, 2010



Itís funny how touchy people are about a slime committing genocide but cheer on a spider doing it.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


kater posted:

Itís funny how touchy people are about a slime committing genocide but cheer on a spider doing it.

I don't think the Spider has been presented as morally correct and loved.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Okay I'll regret pushing this button but I'm confused to why destroying an invading army that itself was explicitly bent on genocide and had already massacred a bunch of civilians is itself genocide.

You don't even have to like it as a story beat, I think it's pretty ham-handed myself, but that's literally not what genocide is.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



Spiritus Nox posted:

Okay I'll regret pushing this button but I'm confused to why destroying an invading army that itself was explicitly bent on genocide and had already massacred a bunch of civilians is itself genocide.

You don't even have to like it as a story beat, I think it's pretty ham-handed myself, but that's literally not what genocide is.

I don't watch slime or particularly care about it so I could be wrong but I think from what people have said its more that apparently he also murks all the surrendering soldiers/non combatants too that didn't sit well with people? I dunno if that's accurate or a misrepresentation but that's what I've seen discussed.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





It's either a poor choice of words or deliberate provocation because some culture war thing was assigned to liking or disliking slime.

But yeah massacre of surrendering enemies is a better description.

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007




Spider's war crimes have all been in battle and Spider very much sits in the shades of grey so it's easier to digest than Slime's as it really, really felt out of place for the way the story was paced

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



Ibram Gaunt posted:

I don't watch slime or particularly care about it so I could be wrong but I think from what people have said its more that apparently he also murks all the surrendering soldiers/non combatants too that didn't sit well with people? I dunno if that's accurate or a misrepresentation but that's what I've seen discussed.

There's a shot of a few soldiers throwing down their swords and giving up before getting murk'd anyway, but it's not like some army en-masse thing, and again, these are members of an invading force that was itself explicitly bent on actual genocide up until the literal instant it was clear that they were about to get magi-nuked.

Like, again, I think the recent arc has been kind of a lame dark turn, it's not High Art or anything, but even by the least charitable interpretation possible the protagonist literally isn't doing anything resembling a genocide and the fixation on calling it that is weird imo

kater
Nov 16, 2010



He got a super power that was explicitly only good for killing people surrendering or some poo poo. For how hosed up that is youíd think they coulda made it more interesting.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





kater posted:

Itís funny how touchy people are about a slime committing genocide but cheer on a spider doing it.

The difference is that the spider is clearly, if not in the wrong per se, at least in it for XP and the delicious taste of fresh human.

It's kind of like comparing "Taken" and "Nobody". They're both about a loving family man who gets drawn into war with a criminal organization, but Taken keeps emphasizing how Liam Neeson is just a nice guy who keeps being PUSHED into doing these murders, so you shouldn't feel at all uneasy about his morality. Meanwhile, Nobody has Bob Odenkirk spoiling for a fight to the point it's clear he really, really wanted to do some murders, and the mob going after his family is more of an excuse than anything.

A show expecting the audience to enjoy watching the protagonist has much lower expectations for morality than a show that expects the audience to approve of its protagonist.

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

i believe the greatest war criminal in isekai, is slime witch not knowing if it wants its characters to be gay or to make jokes about its characters being weirded out by the concept of being gay like a bad episode of 90s sailor moon

Malsangoroth
Apr 2, 2015



Wonder Egg Priority Finalť: I am curious as to how they're going to wrap this up. Whenever any anime falls behind on production there's no shortage of damned choices the creators could make. Squeeze the remaining storyline into the remaining airtime? End the story at a premature stopping point that works well enough? Alter the story to have a different ending than planned? Out of all the choices, WEP's creators made the bold choice to refuse to compromise, and just ended the show at what would've been the penultimate episode. The "Stars Align" solution. Honestly, I actually like this approach better than the alternatives. I hope it pays off.

Magia Record S2: One of the few cases where I pray the adaptation does not follow the source material. The latter half of the gacha game was a train wreck of ill-thought-out villainy, and was a clear case of the plot falling apart due to the nature of gacha's ever-expanding-cast requirement. However, with just a few days until the summer season starts and no air date or preview, this is an anime I wouldn't bet on being good. Still going to watch it though, since it does have some genuinely good characters, and the plot already diverged a bit in S1.

Higurashi Sotsu: I'm not going to watch this one, not because I think it'll be bad but because I haven't watched the first part yet, and probably won't unless I hear good things about it in the AOTY thread.

Uramichi Oniisan: I'll give it a try, the premise makes it seem like a humor goldmine, at least in theory.

The Great Jahy Will Not Be Defeated: Same as above.

Sonny Boy: First episode had great art and was interesting. Will watch at least the first three episodes.

Anime I Know Nothing About But Might Be Interesting: Peach Boy Riverside, Scarlet Nexus, Vanitas no Carte, Kageki Shoujo, Realist Hero, Re-Main, Aquatope, Fena: Pirate Princess, Night Head 2041

Nemo2342
Nov 25, 2007

Have A Day





Nap Ghost

The Colonel posted:

i believe the greatest war criminal in isekai, is slime witch not knowing if it wants its characters to be gay or to make jokes about its characters being weirded out by the concept of being gay like a bad episode of 90s sailor moon

Early on the manga was very clear that the witch isn't the least bit interested in other women, so it's very obnoxious that the show and manga keep trying to tease it. The anime of course just dodged around the refusal so it can keep baiting the viewers.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



would 'war crime' be a better term than 'genocide' for the slime protag

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

Count me in as one of the people who finds the situation in Slime to be less questionable from a moral standpoint and more amusingly tonally inconsistent

It'd maybe be less so if the show hadn't been all soft edges and power of friendship since it's start, but to go from that to "Take no prisoners (literally)" is funny. Although the way it treats it as a purely logical action done in pursuit of a greater good feels like the author trying to have their fun revenge scenario while also retaining the moral high ground , which makes me wanna roll my eyes.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Endorph posted:

would 'war crime' be a better term than 'genocide' for the slime protag
it's total eradication regardless of whether they're combatants or not, so I guess? I'm pretty sure they also capture and torture the king who ordered the war in the first place and eventually he gets turned into a...I think LITERAL bucket of body parts, but still alive? or something hosed up like that?

but yeah, it's been a bit but I think it was basically "oh, this attacking army just so happens to be roughly the amount of souls you'd need to absorb in order to become a demon lord, so why don't we kill two birds with one stone here" and he uses raindrop-reflected magic lasers to 360 noscope every single invader basically at the same time, surrendering or not

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


The problem with the whole 'was it genocide' debate is that it makes Slime sound more interesting and edgy than it actually is.

The show is fully wish-fulfillment isekai at this point. Everything happens to make Rimuru look cooler, more beloved or make him more overpowered. The 'genocide' only exists for this purpose. Also the pacing is just loving terrible and there is no narrative tension. I got mildly engaged when his village got sacked by the humans, but they immediately say everyone is getting revived in the same episode the deaths are shown. And then the next episode is them re-explaining how everyone is going to get revived and wasting the viewers time. The war crime is shown to be ok because the invading army are cartoon villains in the most lazy of ways.

If it wasn't for the production issues Spider would be unambiguously a massive upgrade to Slime on every level.

Nephthys fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Jun 25, 2021

Tales of Woe
Dec 17, 2004



magia record 2 starts 7/31

https://twitter.com/AIR_News01/status/1408387198785708033?s=19

sounds like there will be a 3rd season too or it's split cour

Brutal Garcon
Nov 2, 2014





I'm reasonably confidant that what happened in Slime was meant to be an obviously bad idea, and that we'll see consequences of it. It's just that it happened right before the end of the season, so they cut straight from that to goofy character nonsense (and then a slice-of-life spin-off).

I might be disappointed.

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

Nemo2342 posted:

Early on the manga was very clear that the witch isn't the least bit interested in other women,

do you mean with the gag where the elf gets high on mushrooms and chases her through a forest while she shouts about how not gay she is

because that is, exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about when i say i hate slime witch lol. like here's the thing even if they never teased anything again it would still be awkward to have a bit where she clarifies how straight she is apropos of like, nothing, and they still went about it in the most insane way possible that treats the idea of reading the characters that way as something weird and othering

The Colonel fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jun 25, 2021

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Brutal Garcon posted:

I'm reasonably confidant that what happened in Slime was meant to be an obviously bad idea, and that we'll see consequences of it. It's just that it happened right before the end of the season, so they cut straight from that to goofy character nonsense (and then a slice-of-life spin-off).

I might be disappointed.

Not really no, he is sort of inconvenienced by becoming a demon lord, but he's so powerful he can just instantly curb stomp everybody. Including one of the main villians the series had been building up for awhile. It was the arc that made me actually drop the series although it was already on extremely thin ice after the war crimes. It tried to set up some sort of political intrigue, but the character can't face any sort of actual difficulty.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Slime was one of those shows after watching it initially where I decided I was kinda just done with overpowered protagonists, or rather ones that don't go through the effort and agency in which to earn that overpoweredness.

In Spider you have her starting from basically nothing and through luck, grit, and skill climb her way up to being powerful and there's still very clearly much more powerful people out there who can put her in her place if she Son Wukong's it.

It's that kind of isekai I mainly keep an eye out for because they're basically the only ones I can get into now.

There's just no tension or stakes otherwise, I'm not all that interested in the S2 One Punch Man formula of "Do they survive long enough to be rescued" for the side characters.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Raenir Salazar posted:

Slime was one of those shows after watching it initially where I decided I was kinda just done with overpowered protagonists, or rather ones that don't go through the effort and agency in which to earn that overpoweredness.

In Spider you have her starting from basically nothing and through luck, grit, and skill climb her way up to being powerful and there's still very clearly much more powerful people out there who can put her in her place if she Son Wukong's it.

It's that kind of isekai I mainly keep an eye out for because they're basically the only ones I can get into now.

There's just no tension or stakes otherwise, I'm not all that interested in the S2 One Punch Man formula of "Do they survive long enough to be rescued" for the side characters.

Overpowered characters can work, as long as you have plots that don't rely entirely on fighting, and its merely a tool that they can use for some situations and not every situation. Overlord is a good example of this. Ainz could probably single-handedly conquer the entire world, but because he doesn't know if there is some other ultra-powerful enemy out there, he has to act cautiously. He is constantly dealing with things like politics and other things that can't be ideally solved with violence. It also focuses on other characters that aren't the overpowered protagonist, and they might face actual consequences.

Log Horizon is another good example, because it manages to make things interesting despite most of the characters being immortal.

Slime's protagonist might very briefly be inconvenienced, but they don't really ever struggle. If they ever face failure, a solution will soon fall into their laps to fix everything.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Question about Super Cub;

Someone a while back mentioned they've toned back the worse elements of the original manga to make it a wholesome advertisement, I was just curious as to whether Reiko sneaking out of the shower to eat naked was a snippet of the apparently-exised nudism thing that was mentioned making it in as a gag?


Also something really sweet about this one; It's almost entirely in bright high-contrast colours :allears:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

IShallRiseAgain posted:

Overpowered characters can work, as long as you have plots that don't rely entirely on fighting, and its merely a tool that they can use for some situations and not every situation. Overlord is a good example of this. Ainz could probably single-handedly conquer the entire world, but because he doesn't know if there is some other ultra-powerful enemy out there, he has to act cautiously. He is constantly dealing with things like politics and other things that can't be ideally solved with violence. It also focuses on other characters that aren't the overpowered protagonist, and they might face actual consequences.

Log Horizon is another good example, because it manages to make things interesting despite most of the characters being immortal.

Slime's protagonist might very briefly be inconvenienced, but they don't really ever struggle. If they ever face failure, a solution will soon fall into their laps to fix everything.

I think you misread me a bit, I am not saying what I am saying as a judgment as to the use of the trope in its entirety across all genres and subgenres; and I'm also not actually going as far as to analyze or base any decisions on how well or badly the trope is being utilized. Only to say that, "This specific tropes as I currently see it in anime I have had my fill and prefer to see something different." This isn't a binary "this trope is good or bad" value judgment, only that basically as a trend that I've seen a lot of in anime "recently" its a bit oversaturated and rather than try to filter out better examples I'd prefer to visit a different well entirely; just explaining my current preference and that the first episode of Slime way back when was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 25, 2021

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



the real war crime is that the same slime discourse emerges every season

good willing no more of it gets greenlit for a long while

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



I wish I could say that one punch man tricked a bunch of writers into thinking that having an OP protagonist is cool and exciting. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure having an OP protagonist for wish fulfillment is just really popular whether or not there was a recent example of it being done well, it's just more egregious now that there's a well done example to compare them against

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


ninjewtsu posted:

I wish I could say that one punch man tricked a bunch of writers into thinking that having an OP protagonist is cool and exciting. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure having an OP protagonist for wish fulfillment is just really popular whether or not there was a recent example of it being done well, it's just more egregious now that there's a well done example to compare them against

I think OP protags have been around since epics passed down through oral tradition.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Beowulf OP

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Gilgamesh was also totally bullshit.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Grouchio posted:

Why must thou hate Rimuru so?
It's been well-established that I am an avowed, returning enjoyer of that most foul of beverages: The Haterade.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Omnicrom posted:

Gilgamesh was also totally bullshit.

Eeh, most of the Epic is about him coming to terms with experiencing failure and mortality. Not quite the same, tonally speaking.

Mentat Radnor
Apr 24, 2008

~Water flowers every day~


ninjewtsu posted:

I wish I could say that one punch man tricked a bunch of writers into thinking that having an OP protagonist is cool and exciting. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure having an OP protagonist for wish fulfillment is just really popular whether or not there was a recent example of it being done well, it's just more egregious now that there's a well done example to compare them against

One Punch Man is a parody of exactly that wish fulfillment overpowered MC, which is why it's so good. Every sequence of events is a longer, more elaborate, higher stakes (for the supporting cast) setup for the inevitable punchline that Saitama will come in and punch the bad guys into goo.

Like many of the MCs that he's a mockery of, Saitama hasn't really earned his OP-ness, and his workout routine is another great gag. Unlike most OPMCs, he's kinda a failed doofus in every aspect of life besides punching stuff. No wealth or social power, no recognition of his amazing deeds, no harem of suitors or following of devotees besides Genos. I love ONE's writing.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

I mean, the actual reason that One Punch Man works beyond simple parody from what I've seen is that much of the story does not involve and is not about Saitama.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



I mean, there's also an insane amount of setup concerning how *this* enemy is the end-all Final Boss that will push Saitama to the breaking point and it always comes down to Consecutive Normal Punches.

Like the Sea King just wrecking a bunch of fools. Or Boros unleashing the power of 10x the animation budget.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



you can absolutely have an overpowered wish fulfillment protagonist and tell a good story, the issue with a lot of isekai isnt that the protagonists are super strong and you want to be them, the issue is that those are literally all the stories have going on and they go out of their way to not to do anything thatd undermine that. most classical mythology is also about hugely overpowered guys who are meant to be an ideal to strive for, but there's also tragedy and betrayals and moments where they make mistakes. like when cu chulainn has to kill his own son the narrative is like 'drat, that sucks bro!!'

One Punch Man S1 works because its mostly jokes about how overpowered Saitama is and the actual narrative focus is his ennui and emptiness. S2 stopped working partly because the animation wasn't good enough to sell it and partly because the joke ran out so they tried to shift to more of a proper narrative but the series still wasn't really able to do anything that'd tear Saitama down, because for all his strength he was never actually in that high a position to begin with. It's hard to tell any kind of tragedy or downer moment when the main character is completely listless and bored. So the story mostly becomes about trying to tell a story *around* Saitama, which means it's basically just a normal shonen action thing only a guy a hundred times stronger than anyone else teleports in at the end to solve everything. Now, DBZ also had that same story structure but at least Goku was presented as weaker than the enemies at some points. And also Goku actually cared what was going on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



as ever the whoel isekai op protagonist thing is mostly people identifying the surface level writing choices as the problem rather than the core issue of how those writing issues are used in the story and how the story supports or undermines them.

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SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007




Yeah Isekai didn't really invent op protagonist when back in the 80's you had Kenshiro running around causing people to explode after punching them

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