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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



i too furiously masturbate when i think of people losing their jobs for the crime of being the victim of the ridiculous overproduction of anime currently going on in japan

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Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

Nitrousoxide posted:

On the plus side, the enormous public gently caress up of missing the finale may finally doom this lovely studio.

But we don't want to see the studio doomed, we want to see them animate stuff with an actual humane production schedule that lets them put out better quality without killing themselves or missing deadlines. (And the same for every other studio for that matter.)

Erg
Oct 31, 2010



Nitrousoxide posted:

On the plus side, the enormous public gently caress up of missing the finale may finally doom this lovely studio.

this guy hates teekyuu

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?


Endorph posted:

i dont know how this is his fault, and this isn't really a director's job, but im gonna blame him cause hes a man whos name i saw once. impeccable logic.

Oh, so you’ll stop blaming Katsura Hoshino for every single problem with the Persona franchise because he only directed those games, right? The writing in them isn’t really a directors job, but he’s only a man who’s name you saw once so he couldn’t possibly be the problem?

The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jun 26, 2021

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Endorph posted:

i too furiously masturbate when i think of people losing their jobs for the crime of being the victim of the ridiculous overproduction of anime currently going on in japan

Sometimes you need an example for others to be able to point and say "I told you so" at and give the higher-ups something to fret over being perceived as. If nobody's failing, it works because capitalism. If there's a studio that demonstrably sank itself through these exact same measures, there's at least a non-zero chance of others pivoting a little just to avoid getting media and investment perception as being another Studio [Insert Name Here].

I'm not cheering a studio's demise either, but if one does sink itself it might make a big enough mess that it can't be ignored and do some good elsewhere at-large.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


negative examples don't mean poo poo during a boom. there will be more and more anime pumped out to the absolute limit of what the actual people making it can handle and beyond until the bubble bursts and it stops being quite so profitable. that's when you instead get the fun of layoffs. blah blah blah, capitalism.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

GorfZaplen posted:

Akira was nuts, if you saw like, the top half of a cowboy get shot on a tv, someone animated the entire cowboy to make sure they got the cowboy getting shot just right.

This is the funniest loving example

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The Black Stones posted:

Oh, so you’ll stop blaming Katsura Hoshino for every single problem with the Persona franchise because he only directed those games, right? The writing in them isn’t really a directors job, but he’s only a man who’s name you saw once so he couldn’t possibly be the problem?
Hashino is not really responsible for the myriad writing and plotting problems of Persona 5, yes. He has directly spoken about the weird trans stuff in Catherine Full Body being his idea so I feel comfortable blaming him for that tho. wanna try again?

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Sometimes you need an example for others to be able to point and say "I told you so" at and give the higher-ups something to fret over being perceived as. If nobody's failing, it works because capitalism. If there's a studio that demonstrably sank itself through these exact same measures, there's at least a non-zero chance of others pivoting a little just to avoid getting media and investment perception as being another Studio [Insert Name Here].

I'm not cheering a studio's demise either, but if one does sink itself it might make a big enough mess that it can't be ignored and do some good elsewhere at-large.
the studio isn't the one making the calls that lead to these working conditions, though.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



as a sidebar i really love 'the spider show has bad cg' and 'homophobia' being equal points on a chart.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


The Black Stones posted:

Oh, so you’ll stop blaming Katsura Hoshino for every single problem with the Persona franchise because he only directed those games, right? The writing in them isn’t really a directors job, but he’s only a man who’s name you saw once so he couldn’t possibly be the problem?
I blame Katsura for many things, but not as much as I blame that damnable flower field from keeping Kazuma Kaneko enthralled with its natural beauty.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Endorph posted:

i too furiously masturbate when i think of people losing their jobs for the crime of being the victim of the ridiculous overproduction of anime currently going on in japan

No one wants people to loose their good jobs. It's clear however that working at this studio is not a good job as they have consistently put out garbage work and have missed deadlines.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

I like Persona but I'm going to make the bold claim that there's probably a big difference between a game director and an anime director

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?


You know what? I don’t care about getting into some weird argument war about this because it doesn’t matter. Do I think Shin Itagaki shares in the blame on what happens in those shows? He’s a director, so yes. If you want to claim he doesn’t have anything to do with it, by all means point out what a series directors responsibilities are because all the media and online material I’ve read have shown they have a hand in it.

I’ll apologize about the Katsura Hoshino thing because I thought you were one of those people who blamed all the series problems on him. If you weren’t, I’m sorry. That’s an honest mistake on my part.

However I think you’re being really weird and aggressive about me going “this guy is involved in bad productions” despite me repeatedly claiming he’s not entirely responsible multiple times.

Arist posted:

I like Persona but I'm going to make the bold claim that there's probably a big difference between a game director and an anime director

They’re not a 100% analogue, no. However, the comparison is that people assign blame to a director for things because they’re the one at the top who you know, directs the production. It’s the same with movies. So I find it weird when I go “hey this person who is near the top of a production is always in a troubled production” someone has some gigantic issues with it. Which at this point, whatever. If they want to have an issue with it, that’s fine.

The Black Stones fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Jun 26, 2021

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Arist posted:

I like Persona but I'm going to make the bold claim that there's probably a big difference between a game director and an anime director
as an aside while i dont subscribe to the idea that its wholly hashinos fault, there is also a difference between a deliberate choice (homophobic jokes) and a choice that was presumably not deliberate (https://i.imgur.com/vGMP8Ch.mp4)

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008



spider anime is among the most popular anime these 2 seasons in japan, few animation problems and a delayed episode ain't gonna break it

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



people will do anything for y.aoi

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The Black Stones posted:

You know what? I don’t care about getting into some weird argument war about this because it doesn’t matter. Do I think Shin Itagaki shares in the blame on what happens in those shows? He’s a director, so yes. If you want to claim he doesn’t have anything to do with it, by all means point out what a series directors responsibilities are because all the media and online material I’ve read have shown they have a hand in it.
i mean, define 'what happens in these shows.' the responsibilities of an anime director are mostly artistic choices. storyboarding, approving things like character designs, checking work to make sure it meets their vision, that sort of thing. it is not really an anime director's job to make sure they are meeting deadlines, or to ensure a reasonable working schedule. obviously the director can *assist* with those things, but it isn't the job description. those things are the responsibility of the production roles. and those things are also often constrained by the demands of the sponsors, or the production committee. if the production committee tells you its two cours even though you only have the manpower and time for a single cour, then you deal with it. and dealing with it would, again, be production's jobs.

so: if you think the show has poor creative choices or poorly shot/storyboarded scenes, then yes, the director would bear some responsibility for that. berserk 2016 had some very poor shot choices that itagaki is fully responsible for. he is not, however, really responsible for the full production meltdown that spider seems to have gotten itself into.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jun 26, 2021

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

shin itagaki and katsura hashino are incomparable cause itagaki's made several of the greatest short anime of all time while the only thing of worth katsura hashino's directed is maken x...

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The Colonel posted:

shin itagaki and katsura hashino are incomparable cause itagaki's made several of the greatest short anime of all time while the only thing of worth katsura hashino's directed is maken x...
unfortunately, nocturne is decent

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!

i'm invoking the maken x another clause, that maken x gets to count in this discussion and nocturne doesn't because maken x got a hayashida q manga

i think atlus should do a push for a revival of maken x, with maken x hd and a cg anime adaptation of maken x another directed by shin itagaki

marumaru
May 20, 2013





i actually really enjoyed fumetsu no anata e, way more than i expected to.
it didnt have the impact of Dynazenon or Vivy, but it was really good.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


The Colonel posted:

i'm invoking the maken x another clause, that maken x gets to count in this discussion and nocturne doesn't because maken x got a hayashida q manga

i think atlus should do a push for a revival of maken x, with maken x hd and a cg anime adaptation of maken x another directed by shin itagaki

Even if the source code still exists, I'd be curious as to what engine it's on. The assets and lighting look vaguely SMT:Nocturne-esque, and I wonder if it's a reaaaaal early iteration of the engine the PS2 SMT games ran on given the PS2 port.

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

Life's just better with Ominous Gloves.


How did 86 turn out? Is it worth catching up on?

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





Squidster posted:

How did 86 turn out? Is it worth catching up on?

I really enjoyed it and it got me to start the light novels

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007




If you told me at the start of the year that Umamusume would be the better sequel series than Gridman and ZLS I would of laughed but here we are and it's true. Not that I hated them but both really didn't match the level of what the first series was for them

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



i'm glad at the end of it all, ReSTART taught us the most important lesson



keep politics out of sports

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012



Squidster posted:

How did 86 turn out? Is it worth catching up on?

it's excellent

Doodles
Apr 14, 2001



So the last episode of Slime Taoshite 300-nen etc. was a pleasant end to the series, and if another season comes around I will be happy to watch it. There's a number spin-off novels/manga as well, so I'll have to keep an eye open for all of them.

marumaru
May 20, 2013





The end of the last episode of TWEWY finally tried to have some proper pacing. Came in way too late, but I enjoyed the bit of fan service.
Shame that they didn't try to go beyond an advertisement for the new game. It wasn't very good overall, the fights were particularly bad.

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl


Squidster posted:

How did 86 turn out? Is it worth catching up on?

Show of the season.

... along with the like dozen or so other shows of the season.

LibrarianCroaker
Mar 30, 2010


Squidster posted:

How did 86 turn out? Is it worth catching up on?

Pretty good.

Worth pointing out if you're not aware, it's a split cour show and the second part is coming in October.

kater
Nov 16, 2010



I haven’t watched the last ep of 86 but very surprised it’s a split cour. Very surprised there’s even a last episode tbh but I guess you can do anything you want.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





kater posted:

I haven’t watched the last ep of 86 but very surprised it’s a split cour. Very surprised there’s even a last episode tbh but I guess you can do anything you want.

There's a good stopping point in the story for the cour.

dogsicle
Oct 23, 2012



i liked ep 9 as stop since now it has this whole cliffhanger that is too mean for me to wait a whole season on

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





dogsicle posted:

i liked ep 9 as stop since now it has this whole cliffhanger that is too mean for me to wait a whole season on

Can always read the LN!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
This space intentionally left blank.


86 is okay, at best. It's a slow burn. It makes the decision to chop and splice scenes so you see events from multiple angles, but the pacing and timing isn't quite there. Some of the dramatic emotional beats don't land. Intellectually the setting doesn't make sense from any kind of historical materialist perspective.

But the final few episodes, when the scenes are allowed to really breath and characters unwind, are excellent.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

I'm really not sure if it makes sense to try to critique an anime based on how its historical set dressing doesn't quite match a specific set of circumstances that you're aware of. People can subjectively decide whether a particular show works for them but that's a weird hang up to have.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


When they say that the first season tackles the first volume as a whole, is it just this chunk or does this include the 2nd cour when it restarts in October as well?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007
Injection-Molded

Phobophilia posted:

86 is okay, at best. It's a slow burn. It makes the decision to chop and splice scenes so you see events from multiple angles, but the pacing and timing isn't quite there. Some of the dramatic emotional beats don't land. Intellectually the setting doesn't make sense from any kind of historical materialist perspective.

But the final few episodes, when the scenes are allowed to really breath and characters unwind, are excellent.

I would argue it makes perfect sense from a Fourierian perspective, especially regarding the lemonade.

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Plastic_Gargoyle posted:

I would argue it makes perfect sense from a Fourierian perspective, especially regarding the lemonade.

Wait, there's utopian socialism and lemonade seas in this show? I gotta watch this.

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