Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.



oldskool posted:

yeah Geo rules; you have to grind for those bosses but you also have a free-insta-win-random-encounters button in !Gaia

Dancer, however, is absolute trash garbage and you'll never convince me otherwise.

One Dancer is tolerable. It gives enough benefits (safe Chicken Knife, Ribbons/Rainbow Dresses) to offset the humongous downsides (game-worst VIT, the "safe" option is unreliable as hell, daggers + Man Eater only, no worthwhile inheritables aside from Equip Ribbon) in a mixed team.

Things get progressively worse the more Dancers you have.

Geomancer is the opposite in a lot of ways despite a few shared fatal flaws: !Gaia isn't really helpful in a mixed team comp (You either have better sources of boss damage and want to avoid randoms or don't consistently have the Magic stat to make hippy poo poo work well) but if it's your biggest source of damage, then it can chew through a good 85% of random encounters.

Unfortunately, the remaining 15% (and the aforementioned bosses) are a giant migraine.

That said, my point is that Dancer peaks at "tolerable" and Geomancer bottoms out there, so I'm absolutely agreeing with your point.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Someone's gonna have to do quad dancers for charity and I do not envy them.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.



ultrafilter posted:

Someone's gonna have to do quad dancers for charity and I do not envy them.

The "good" news: Ribbons make you immune to most of the debilitating poo poo Grand Cross can hit you with!
The bad news: Having to grind to the ballpark of Level 50 just to survive a single Almagest without being taken out immediately after.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






People worry too much about the NED fight when assessing a team and not enough about getting there in the first place. I want to hear how your party's going to get past the Crystal Guardians and the first Exdeath fight.

ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 21, 2021

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Crystal Guardians is just a matter of farming enough money for Flame Rings in World 1. World 2 Exdeath would be awful though. Probably have to do a fair bit of level grinding and get some Reflect Rings.

I don't think Neo-Exdeath would be all that bad though. Four Dancers should put out enough damage to kill the Almagest part before it can act. Might take a couple of tries if you get unfavourable RNG.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Stupid question. How would you even register a run like that on the website? Or would it just be off-the-record, so to speak?

Because if it's the latter, I might just loving try the Red Mage one now as my warm-up run.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Chaos/pure chaos + job fair.

e: to be clear, I don't particularly care whether it's an official run as long as you post the victory pics here. Your call as to whether it matters to you.

oldskool
Aug 9, 2010

:pepsi::emptyquote::pepsi:



ultrafilter posted:

People worry too much about the NED fight when assessing a team and not enough about getting there in the first place. I want to hear how your party's going to get past the Crystal Guardians and the first Exdeath fight.

Yeah I think the real catchpoint is the Purobolos fight. It's a race of one-shots, except they outnumber you & can mass revive. Once you're through that it's just grinding for rings & rolling RNG.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.


Kyrosiris posted:

Who fights random encounters? :confused:

People going for the 0 power chicken blade challenge.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


TIME FOR RED MAGES, THEN.

:kheldragar:

Edit: I'll be liveblogging this in the Discord server. :regd08:

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 21, 2021

ReWinter
Nov 23, 2008

Perpetually Perturbed

Big time fun with this last year, it was my first time playing FFV and I even got Omega & Shinryu - which might have been impressive with a team other than the one I got, which was, uh... BLM/MYS/NIN/CHM...

In my defense doing a large chunk of the game without healing was hard as a first timer even if the lategame was just a drinking contest. At least I beat FFV! No way that job luck holds this year.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


ReWinter posted:

Big time fun with this last year, it was my first time playing FFV and I even got Omega & Shinryu - which might have been impressive with a team other than the one I got, which was, uh... BLM/MYS/NIN/CHM...

In my defense doing a large chunk of the game without healing was hard as a first timer even if the lategame was just a drinking contest. At least I beat FFV! No way that job luck holds this year.
There's always the job fair!

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008



Every day I dream I will get Freelancer (or Mime)/Ninja/Mystic Knight/Ranger in a Pure Chaos run.

It will never happen. But maybe one day...

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Hellioning posted:

Every day I dream I will get Freelancer (or Mime)/Ninja/Mystic Knight/Ranger in a Pure Chaos run.

It will never happen. But maybe one day...


girl dick energy posted:

There's always the job fair!

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Hellioning posted:

Every day I dream I will get Freelancer (or Mime)/Ninja/Mystic Knight/Ranger in a Pure Chaos run.

It will never happen. But maybe one day...

fifthjob, with free replacing ninja plus a real mage

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014



Hellioning posted:

Every day I dream I will get Freelancer (or Mime)/Ninja/Mystic Knight/Ranger in a Pure Chaos run.

It will never happen. But maybe one day...

I got most of the pieces last year, only missing ninja. (And samurai is basically the same thing as ninja if you squint, right?)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Cattail Prophet posted:

I got most of the pieces last year, only missing ninja. (And samurai is basically the same thing as ninja if you squint, right?)

No dual-wield.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

I think even perfect RNG wouldn't make the fight doable. You just can't do enough damage before Wave Cannon kills you.

If I get really bored this year I might try to look up how the battle RNG works to see if I can even pull it off with memory manipulation.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Jose Valasquez posted:

If I get really bored this year I might try to look up how the battle RNG works to see if I can even pull it off with memory manipulation.
If you TAS a four-zerk triple crown, I think you become the new god of Fiesta.

Edit: Remind me later, I might be willing to throw a $10 toxx at "do it or prove with maths/code/logic/whatever that it can't be done". Payout either way.

dracula vladdy AF
May 6, 2011


Cattail Prophet posted:

I got most of the pieces last year, only missing ninja. (And samurai is basically the same thing as ninja if you squint, right?)

They're pretty different in practice. Basically Ninja is pretty well entirely offense with fairly lousy defense (unless you equip image, but eh). Ninja also gets Throw which gives a party with any mage tons of potential power. Then of course there's dual-wield, so even fighters love having a ninja around.

By contrast Samurai has an extremely effective physical evade bonus that stacks with a shield, making them really hard to hit, as well as being able to use heavy armor. They also get the Masamune, which can cast haste and grants first strike (same as the Ninja skill) so it is a huge advantage if you absolutely need to open a fight with a specific action. A Samurai can potentially do even more damage than a Ninja as well with the Zeninage command, with the caveat that it is extremely costly.

Short version is that Ninja is all offense with amazing party synergy whereas Samurai is more defensive and arguably more versatile in terms of what it can do.

dracula vladdy AF fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 22, 2021

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009




dracula vladdy AF posted:

the Zeninage command

You haven't lived until you've blasted down W2 Exdeath in 2-3 rounds by spewing money at him

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014



Y'all taking the obvious joke half of my post weirdly seriously.

Also depending on party comp I like slotting in !image on a character or two for W2 Exdeath.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






dracula vladdy AF posted:

Short version is that Ninja is all offense with amazing party synergy whereas Samurai is more defensive and arguably more versatile in terms of what it can do.

The four Ninja run is going to be considerably less awesome than the four Samurai run.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Seven Samurai (Minus Three)

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Several Samurai

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Unreal_One posted:

Several Samurai
:hmmyes:

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Jose Valasquez posted:

If I get really bored this year I might try to look up how the battle RNG works to see if I can even pull it off with memory manipulation.
I had some free time tonight so I started looking at this since I can't start a real run yet. So far it looks like it will take more than lucky hits, wave cannon will hit for 4999 each time at 99 and atomic ray only heals for ~3k, with those numbers even the optimal scenario goes

code:
Atomic Ray   (9999HP)
Wave Cannon  (4999HP)
Atomic Ray   (7999HP)
Wave Cannon  (2999HP)
Missed attacks
Atomic Ray   (5999HP)
Wave Cannon  ( 999HP)
Atomic Ray   (3999HP)
Wave Cannon  (   0HP)
Even ignoring Sap that fourth wave cannon will wipe you out unless you have another way to heal or have less max hp. Might have to try the 3 zombies with death sickles for healing and 1 non-zombie with Rune Axe and Bone Mail. Alternatively it could be attempted at a lower level so that I've got <6000 HP so Atomic Ray heals for more than wave cannon but I'd need to look at the formulas to see how much that would hurt damage and hit%.

I've found the addresses in memory that seem to affect hit/miss RNG so I think it should just be a matter of iterating through to find a combo that lets my Rune Axe wielder hit, but I haven't figured out how to manipulate which attacks omega does yet, which is gonna be necessary to line up the atomic rays

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



Dancer Buttz is one of the best sprites at least.

dracula vladdy AF
May 6, 2011


Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

You haven't lived until you've blasted down W2 Exdeath in 2-3 rounds by spewing money at him

funnily enough, the very first time I ever beat the game back in the early 2000s iirc, just giving everyone $toss is how I beat Neo Exdeath. I distinctly remember thinking "wow I can't believe I could do that"

Mega64
May 23, 2008



Give three of the Samurai Quick to cast and itís basically Seven Samurai.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Jose Valasquez posted:

I had some free time tonight so I started looking at this since I can't start a real run yet. So far it looks like it will take more than lucky hits, wave cannon will hit for 4999 each time at 99 and atomic ray only heals for ~3k, with those numbers even the optimal scenario goes

Does equipping a Bone Mail in combination with a Flame Shield double the amount of healing you receive from Atomic Ray? If so, that would make it a lot easier.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






Kite Pride Worldwide posted:

You haven't lived until you've blasted down W2 Exdeath in 2-3 rounds by spewing money at him

You can do it in one round releasing Yellow Dragons. :smugdog:

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Samuel Clemens posted:

Does equipping a Bone Mail in combination with a Flame Shield double the amount of healing you receive from Atomic Ray? If so, that would make it a lot easier.

I don't think it stacks, but either way I had the flame shield and bone armor on butts already when I was doing my tests

Osci
Oct 11, 2016


I'm going to go with a similar :toxx: to last year.

$5 for anyone who makes it between the fire and earth crystal with a party of 4 bards, maxing out at $20.
Pictures of Adamantoise/Archeoavis dying would be nice, but is not strictly needed.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!


I made some more progress here. I haven't determined exactly how the RNG works for determining hits vs misses, but the question I'm really trying to answer is "if the RNG lined up perfectly could you win" so I've broadened the range of things I'll look at.

I reduced omega's evade% down to 0 so that my rune axe wielder always hits, the other 3 don't have weapons that can harm omega and hitting omega for 0 doesn't trigger any counterattacks, and it doesn't look like evade% has any effect on damage if you hit, so this is the equivalent of getting crazy good RNG on your hits.

I also edited Omega's AI script to get the attacks I want. Any place that he would normally choose between 3 options and one of those options is Atomic Ray I replaced the other options with Atomic Ray.

With those change in I can hit the optimal scenario from my previous post consistently, and with zombie death sicklers occasionally fully healing me I've gotten Omega down as far as about 25000HP which is half way. I haven't been able to figure out how to get the zombies to target butts more often or how to manipulate the death proc, so there is still a lot of trial and error here, but I think it's doable.

As to the question of whether it would ever actually happen in the real world, my understanding of the battle RNG (which is spotty at best, there's not a ton of info out there on it) is that there are two 8 bit numbers that are initialized at the beginning of each battle, they increment at different points, alternating which one increments each frame in the battle and in a non-quadzerker battle there could be a huge variety of outcomes, if you select a command one frame later you've got a different random number being used. With quadzerkers the battle is on a track that can't be manipulated. It will play out exactly the same way each time given the same initial state, so if it is accurate that those two 8 bit numbers determine all of the RNG then there are only 255*255=65,025 possible versions of a quadzerker battle and given the amount of things that need to go your way I don't think that will be nearly enough versions for everything to go exactly right.

Once I've removed enough RNG to actually defeat him I'll try to set up a script that iterates through all 65,025 possibilities and see if any of them result in victory. That will take a while to run though

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Jose Valasquez posted:

Once I've removed enough RNG to actually defeat him I'll try to set up a script that iterates through all 65,025 possibilities and see if any of them result in victory. That will take a while to run though
:eyepop:

Goddamn, you're really gonna pull this off.

Mega64
May 23, 2008



Let me know if you can apply those possibilities to a solo Zerker for the GBA version. Only two people have ever won solo Zerker against NED, and both were on the SNES version using the Gaia Hammer and the underflow glitch. And of course both used a lot of manipulation and/or brute force to pull off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtXNPuTpja0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxqGEQ7jTiA

e: For the record, I couldn't even pull it off on my "Omnizerker" (i.e. Berserker with whatever secondary passive they wanted) run, I had to use another mod to "officially" do it for my LP run. Doing it on GBA version without secondary abilities may just be impossible since GBA can't make use of the underflow glitch.

Mega64 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 24, 2021

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Jose Valasquez posted:

It will play out exactly the same way each time given the same initial state, so if it is accurate that those two 8 bit numbers determine all of the RNG then there are only 255*255=65,025 possible versions of a quadzerker battle and given the amount of things that need to go your way I don't think that will be nearly enough versions for everything to go exactly right.

I want to believe it's possible, but as you say, 65,025 outcomes sounds way too low considering how much has to go in your favour.

You're doing God's Gilgamesh's work in any case.

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

Not Dennis NEDry


Exdeath 0.3 has been released.



I am accepting submissions for Neo Exdeath graphics. You must use FFVEditor to insert them in to a clean FFVA US ROM, and use this online patcher to create an IPS patch. I will, unfortunately, not be able to do this work myself as the program crashes frequently under CrossOver (the only version of Wine available to me) and I don't have a Windows computer. Because Exdeath is open-source, I will also accept pull requests which add patches or features.

EDIT: Yes, I'm aware the Double AP patch is still listed (and works) when there's a whole multipliers panel right there. Shut up.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.




Oh man, that kicks a lot of rear end. Thank you!!

I think I might do the Fiesta after all this year, then. :getin: Iíve only ever done the fiesta with Thief/Mystic Knight/Ninja/Chemist, so Iím looking for a challenge this time.

I was gonna do RandNo750 last year, and then a kidney stone wrecked me. :negative: Hopefully this year wonít be so bad!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply