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Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEQ5Lj-cXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bknyohYQOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdyxBewlS8w

Based on the ground-breaking, bestselling comics written by Brian K. Vaughn & illustrated by Pia Guerra, Y: The Last Man is a thoroughly modernized look at this classic science fiction fable.
Episodes 1-3 were batch-dropped on Hulu, with new episodes coming out on Mondays until October 4th, at which point the series may take a break before releasing the final 4 episodes of Season 1.

So far... I absolutely love it! While the original comic was an incredible story for me, I was a teen, barely 16 when I started reading them. It was the early 2000's and the issues that I am aware of today were still years from my mind. This retelling helps to reframe some of the more obvious issues that would be faced if all mammals with a Y chromosome just dropped dead.

The main villain of the series, such as it is currently, appears to be a slap-you-in-the-face it's so obvious analogue of the real world's Meghan McCain and so far I think the show is doing a good job establishing the kind of mind-shattering pathos that would occur if suddenly half of everyone you knew died. Your husbands and brothers and fathers and sons and cousins and nephews, all gone, not in a puff of smoke, but in pools of blood.

Yorick (Ben Schnetzer) is eminently hateable and selfish out of the box, which seems more pronounced here than in the comic books, but as a comic book fan I'm ready to give him room to breathe. Agent 355 (Ashley Romans) is so perfectly cast and just oozes charisma and authority in every scene. I am transfixed by her. If every other part of this series fails for me, I'll watch every episode of this for her. Unreal good. While there are many stellar performances so far, I have to say that Senator Brown, played by the electric Diane Lane, is just incredible. There is a level of empathy wrapped around every line she speaks, you can feel every year of her life bolstering her delivery. I absolutely believe, in my core, that this woman is a leader and she is doing the best she can.

This show is very strong so far. It's like an interesting post-Bechdel exploration of feminist fiction, in that the central premise of the show revolves around men, but the stories inside are entirely about women. Even Yorick's plotline revolves entirely around his fiancé and his mother and his sister and 355. There's only one genetic male left on Earth, so in a way he's the most important person on Earth, but in another very real way he is the least important part of the show so far. Every woman's struggle, every slight, every tearful moment so far... this show just has an incredible cast doing incredible work so far, I can't wait to see where it goes. Setting a post-apocalypse so close to our current pre-apocalypse, with all of today's spiciest modern political issues front & center, is engaging me in a way I wasn't prepared for. It feels like the first authentically post-COVID piece of fiction i've seen.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a cisgender male, so I really can't speak to whether or not the trans-representation in the show is good or not, but given the lengths this show is going to get things right, I'd be very interested to hear those perspectives regarding Hero's partner/best friend and their trans-specific issues in the post-apocalypse.

:siren::siren: PLEASE KEEP ALL GRAPHIC NOVEL SPOILER DISCUSSION OUT OF THE THREAD OR THOUROUGHLY SPOILER-BARRED. WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE THE SHOW IS GOING AND DO NOT WANT TO SPOIL IT FOR FIRST TIMERS AND NEW FANS!!!!:siren::siren:

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Sep 14, 2021

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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Music and performances are excellent. A bit slow though tbh.

Bust Rodd posted:

It feels like the first authentically post-COVID piece of fiction i've seen.

Should have watched Creamerie.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




First episode was a little meh, but it's a solid adaptation and I hope they get enough seasons to tell the whole story (even if they have to speed it up and do it in 3 or four seasons). Edit to make sure I contain no spoilers or vagueness about it, just saying I hope they get to do the whole thing.

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(



Bust Rodd posted:

Agent 355 (Ashley Romans) is so perfectly cast and just oozes charisma and authority in every scene. I am transfixed by her. If every other part of this series fails for me, I'll watch every episode of this for her.

Couldn't agree with this more.

I read this series probably about halfway through the run back when it came out and don't really remember much so I'm excited to see where the story goes.

meanolmrcloud
Apr 5, 2004

rock out with your stock out



I was skeptical about the casting choice for Yorick, but seeing him in action sold me. Watching the first ep, they do a ton of character setup for the whole cast in a not awful way, so there’s that. I don’t remember much about the comic series either, but it’d be cool if this turned out to be good tv.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


I really liked the first two episodes, and there's good stuff in the third, but the whole Marin Ireland subplot in the third episode was just the pits. And I have a predisposition to liking Marin Ireland.

UltraShame
Nov 6, 2006

Vocabulum.

Fragmented posted:

Couldn't agree with this more.

:same:

Ashley Romans is a superb 355. Also didn't know that Vaughn and Guerra were producing this, cool! :yum:

Hipster Occultist
Aug 16, 2008

He's an ancient, obscure god. You probably haven't heard of him.




It's alright so far, but I can't say that I'm fan of the lovely republican sideplot.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Yorick and his stupid loving monkey are the worst part of this show, so far. Yorick seems utterly unnecessary to any of the actually interesting aspects of the premise, and the loving monkey is just weird and distracting. I hate the monkey. Hate that it exists.

Also, it seems like the side stories (like the woman and her daughter who got left behind by their friends and then briefly heard a radio station - I don't know who she is or why she's in the show) are just padding the runtime. And it really doesn't need padding.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


Tiggum posted:

Also, it seems like the side stories (like the woman and her daughter who got left behind by their friends and then briefly heard a radio station - I don't know who she is or why she's in the show) are just padding the runtime. And it really doesn't need padding.

She is (was) some sort of staffer for the previous "Totally not a clone of George W. Bush" president that died. Not sure if she was, like, "Chief of Staff" or just some lower role, but we briefly saw her being goaded into shooting a gun by that president, but not much else. I assume she must be a lower level staffer since I would assume that someone as important as Chief of Staff would have been at the Pentagon with him when he died.

Hence why she tried to get past the blockage, cause she assumed she was "important enough."

I think they're showing her to sort of show us what the day to day life is like for the "average" person left? Not in a city, not in the government inner circle, just trying to loot homes for food and not die of cold or starvation.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


My theory is that the President’s PA (Nora Brady as played by Marin Ireland) is there to show us the full radicalization process. We already have Blondie McJerkbag who is the obviously born into wealth and power who sucks, but here is a woman who seems to be a totally normal suburban career mom. She has a big burly husband who loves her and supports her and splits the work and they “have it all”.

The scene where she can’t even keep her eyes open during the gun shot is there to set up something, I’m sure of it, and my guess is that going from working inside the White House to not being called or recognized and left with no food or directions or resources to help her and her starving daughter… oh yeah, we’re watching her turn into a radical, she’s going to become a monster out of necessity, instead of being born into your terrible opinions like the “main” villain.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

This conspiracy nutjob bit that was hinted at, was that in the comic, too, or is that an adaptation to current affairs?

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010

I do believe I may have shit my pants. I hope this accident was worth it for Lowtax' spine.


355 totally sabotaged that helicopter right?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:

355 totally sabotaged that helicopter right?

Oh absolutely

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




Bust Rodd posted:

Oh absolutely

She’s killing it. Also, that is literally the move you make there.

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


Ok I just marathoned all 3 episodes.

I love the plot (never read the comics) and the casting…except for Yorick. He brings nothing to the table.

Qmass
Jun 3, 2003



Pillowpants posted:

Ok I just marathoned all 3 episodes.

I love the plot (never read the comics) and the casting…except for Yorick. He brings nothing to the table.
have you considered whether that makes him perfect for the role ?

Unkempt
May 24, 2003

...perfect spiral, scientists are still figuring it out...


How are there any political shenanigans in this, dems have an instant supermajority in both houses. It's like the one scenario where all the Trumpy poo poo is just gone and it still has to be a major plotline for some reason.

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


Unkempt posted:

How are there any political shenanigans in this, dems have an instant supermajority in both houses. It's like the one scenario where all the Trumpy poo poo is just gone and it still has to be a major plotline for some reason.

Because the Dems are weak and ineffective leaders who hide the minute loud Trumpists start screaming.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



It is an excellent show. Forgot they were even making this. Agree that 355 is the best.

Unkempt posted:

How are there any political shenanigans in this, dems have an instant supermajority in both houses. It's like the one scenario where all the Trumpy poo poo is just gone and it still has to be a major plotline for some reason.

Didn't like half of white women vote for Trump?

seaborgium
Aug 1, 2002

"Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"


DarkCrawler posted:

It is an excellent show. Forgot they were even making this. Agree that 355 is the best.

Didn't like half of white women vote for Trump?

Yes, but the Republican's have almost no female senators or representatives, so what's left of the house and senate would be almost entirely democrats. So unless they're holding new elections in the near future, it's going to remain that way for the government. Parts of the country would still be very republican and that's a whole nother can of worms, but the government would be elected democrats.

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.


DarkCrawler posted:

Didn't like half of white women vote for Trump?

IIRC approximately 47% in 2016 and then 53% in 2020. It's not as if men dying would completely eliminate conservatism or right wing politics, regardless of the country in question.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


Look, I’m sure of you just go outside and politely explain all the arcane rules of democracy to the 10,000 CHUDs camped on the front step of the White House they’ll all just realize how silly and disrespectful they’re being and go home and listen to what all the Dems in charge think is best! Exactly like in real life!

LinkesAuge
Sep 7, 2011


I know this has the potential to be kind of controversial but so far the women in this show act TOO much like men in postapocalyptic settings. I don't want to impose any stereotypes but I just don't buy it if a rather average group of women would execute another group of women including a child like it's not even a big deal.
I get that these scenarios are often overdramatized with men too but it feels kind of lazy and somewhat wastes the potential of the whole setting, ie how would a post-apoc world look/work with women instead of men.
There is just a MUCH higher barrier for woman to resort to violence that simply can't be discussed away and could actually lead to very interesting questions and situations that wouldn't just resemble your stereotypical postapoc scenario.
I write this with the caveat that it is a bit early to make a judgement overall but I do hope that the show will have a bit more nuance because currently I see the danger of "write woman just like you'd write men but with less depth and even more stereoptypical" (heroes become more heroic, villains even more villanous, no shades of grey).

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


seaborgium posted:

Yes, but the Republican's have almost no female senators or representatives, so what's left of the house and senate would be almost entirely democrats. So unless they're holding new elections in the near future, it's going to remain that way for the government. Parts of the country would still be very republican and that's a whole nother can of worms, but the government would be elected democrats.

In order for a female Senator from the other party to become President, she would have to be the President of the Senate.

If this were to happen today, the living line of succession would be VP, Speaker of the house, and then secretaries of Treasury, Interior, Commerce, HUD

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

LinkesAuge posted:

I don't want to impose any stereotypes but I just don't buy it if a rather average group of women would execute another group of women including a child like it's not even a big deal.

Man if they go heavy into the Israeli stuff that's going to be wild for you.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


It’s pretty obvious from that scene, or at least it seemed obvious to me, that Ireland’s character, Nora Brady, was more of an outsider to the suburban moms than she was to the politicos. She walked to DC to try and get some answers and pull strings, and when she returned empty handed, none of the women had any further reason to pretend like she or her daughter mattered to them, just two extra mouths to feed that were always kind of stuck up and rude anyway.

LinkesAuge posted:

There is just a MUCH higher barrier for woman to resort to violence that simply can't be discussed away and could actually lead to very interesting questions and situations that wouldn't just resemble your stereotypical postapoc scenario.

Don’t you think that “barrier” is potentially related to men, and the total lack of men leaving women in charge of the military and the police might effectively totally disintegrate that barrier?

I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing but all the women I know have absolutely no problem escalating to violence with other women (my sister starting fights at bars with other girls who are mean to her in the bathroom, for example!), it’s really only in scenarios where men might also behaving violently that I feel like I observe what you’re discussing.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010




LinkesAuge posted:

I know this has the potential to be kind of controversial but so far the women in this show act TOO much like men in postapocalyptic settings. I don't want to impose any stereotypes but I just don't buy it if a rather average group of women would execute another group of women including a child like it's not even a big deal.
I get that these scenarios are often overdramatized with men too but it feels kind of lazy and somewhat wastes the potential of the whole setting, ie how would a post-apoc world look/work with women instead of men.
There is just a MUCH higher barrier for woman to resort to violence that simply can't be discussed away and could actually lead to very interesting questions and situations that wouldn't just resemble your stereotypical postapoc scenario.
I write this with the caveat that it is a bit early to make a judgement overall but I do hope that the show will have a bit more nuance because currently I see the danger of "write woman just like you'd write men but with less depth and even more stereoptypical" (heroes become more heroic, villains even more villanous, no shades of grey).

Nope.

This is utterly wrong.

When I worked as a bouncer the worst fights I broke up were between women. Saying there is a much higher bar is just stereotypical and sexist BS, and also has a very heteronormative slant that is trash. It is true that society as a whole has tried to repress the violence desires of woman, but as we see with MMA and a bunch of other activities, that's even starting to change. Roller derby is another example of this.

If all the men went poof? 100% poo poo like this would happen.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus


Yorick is an insufferable prick and a giant moron to boot.

LinkesAuge
Sep 7, 2011


LionArcher posted:

Nope.

This is utterly wrong.

When I worked as a bouncer the worst fights I broke up were between women. Saying there is a much higher bar is just stereotypical and sexist BS, and also has a very heteronormative slant that is trash. It is true that society as a whole has tried to repress the violence desires of woman, but as we see with MMA and a bunch of other activities, that's even starting to change. Roller derby is another example of this.

If all the men went poof? 100% poo poo like this would happen.

Dare I say that you perception of "worst fights" is already biased in that you will perceive violence by woman differently and that your whole framing in itself has a heteronormative slant?
There is plenty of research on this topic and you don't even need to make it strictly about just "sex", we understand (at least well enought to explain the differences in behaviour) the biological mechanism behind it, hormones obviously being a major driver and it is obviously true that society has repressed violent desires of woman too but that isn't a counterargument to my point, it actually emphasizes what I wrote because women were successfully repressed and often through violence.
MMA is also not an example of anything due to the fact that it still exists within a socially accepted framework and in the context of a sports competition.
All of this of course doesn't mean that women can't be violent, there are for example a lot more female (serial) killers than the averag person would expect, but there is still an inherent gap between men and women when it comes to violence (there isn't even any competiton in regards to sexual violence) and empathy in general as well as extreme mental disorders.
Also note that you seem to think it is sexist to assume women are on average (a lot) less violent. This is based on the assumption that it would be discriminatory to think this and that it is somehow a desirable trait to be more violent or to solve conflicts in a physical way. This is somewhat of a sexism paradox. We are taught that certain "male" traits/behaviours show strengths/"superiority" and if you then go on and say that women show them to a lesser degree it becomes "sexist" despite the fact that in another context we might even call them "toxic" or at least consider them negative. It is the trap of making everyone "equal" by applying male standards to every person.
There is also a certain hypocrisy at play (and we all sometimes fall victim to it) because we all like to argue that violence is (outside of very specific/rare cases) bad and yet we still assosicate our ability of being violent with strength and dominance, traits often desired even if made taboo to a certain extent in our modern society (we all understand why it's "right" to tell our children not to use violence to resolve conflict and yet the allure of the pure power to assert dominance through violence is there in all of us).
But this is exactly the kind of topic which could be interesting, exploring how women might be confronted with a side of their deeper nature that isn't as "natural" to them as it might be for many men and in that case it doesn't even matter whether the root cause of that is biological or cultural. It is however a lot less interesting if your average female character is already pretty much there in an instant and ignores that we don't have a truely equal society, the military, police etc. doesn't consist of 50% women so suddenly there is a huge discrepancy in the roles women have to fill.


Bust Rodd posted:

It’s pretty obvious from that scene, or at least it seemed obvious to me, that Ireland’s character, Nora Brady, was more of an outsider to the suburban moms than she was to the politicos. She walked to DC to try and get some answers and pull strings, and when she returned empty handed, none of the women had any further reason to pretend like she or her daughter mattered to them, just two extra mouths to feed that were always kind of stuck up and rude anyway.

Don’t you think that “barrier” is potentially related to men, and the total lack of men leaving women in charge of the military and the police might effectively totally disintegrate that barrier?

I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing but all the women I know have absolutely no problem escalating to violence with other women (my sister starting fights at bars with other girls who are mean to her in the bathroom, for example!), it’s really only in scenarios where men might also behaving violently that I feel like I observe what you’re discussing.

I don't want to be misunderstood, there is no question that women can absolutetly be horrible/violent too but it still takes different forms (male violence is often a lot more indiscriminate and impersonal) especially if we talk about the extremes. A setting like this is dominated by the "extreme" personalities of both sexes but there is no question that the male population produces a lot more extreme outliers and that those have a far easier time to rise to the top (of power). I just recently read another new study on this topic that once again points to men with traits we associate with psychopathy experiencing more success while for women the outcomes are always negative.
We can obviously always debate the cultural effects (though there isn't really anything to suggest cultural norms dominate here though they might further emphasize these biological trends and even if we call them cultural they seem to be so universal that the cultural norms emerge from biologcal factors and thus can't be seperated) but there is just a different "self selection" process at work amongst the female population that doesn't exist to the same extent within the male one.

I do however want to stress that the show already did explore certain topics and themes that try to explore the specific female viewpoint/perspective such an event would have, the political side of the show certainly takes a shot at them, so I don't want to go into overdrive with my critique but I do see the seeds of going into cliche territory dominated by "male" (movie/tv) logic that (partly) ignores the setting and its potential.

There is by the way research (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226871004_The_two_facets_of_female_violence_The_public_and_the_domestic_domains) to show that female violence tends to strongly manifest itself within a domestic context which makes sense in a biological and cultural context.
That's why I really want to emphasize that my point here isn't about the portrayal of more stereotypical behaviour that we associate with men or women, it's more that you could explore certain aspects in a unique way and deviate further from what we are used to.

the escape goat
Apr 16, 2008

What a week it's been.
So much to talk about.
And so many things we can't talk about.



Mulva posted:

Man if they go heavy into the Israeli stuff that's going to be wild for you.

Honestly hoping they do.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


One thing you might want to consider is that the writers of all but the finale are women, looks like the woman who wrote the pilot and the second episode is also an executive producer, so it’s certainly not that there aren’t enough women in the room to make sure it’s not a bunch of men writing women badly.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013


It's the freaking apocalypse. Half the global population (roughly speaking) just died over-night. There are food shortages, water shortages, these people are hungry, desperate, and there is a massive up-heaval of anything resembling order and, for lack of a better word, civilization. You think it's unreasonable that violent gangs and other such phenomena would arise? I mean, I don't even know what to tell you.

And, furthermore, the wanton and "random" violence we see is portrayed as an intentional mirror to 355's cold, calculated violence, because she represents a facet of the "old order" that just used to do things like that, and these up-start ladies with their little gang violence ain't got poo poo on her. People lashing out because they are hungry isn't a surprise to anyone. Or shouldn't be.

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004

MAGA FAN #1


The liberal vs. conservative characters angle is so cartoonish. Is that in the comic book?

Mr. Nemo
Feb 4, 2016

A roc and a hard place



I really don't get why it's the post apocalypsis. I thought it was really funny when the leader of the new gang showed up and was like "we can't take care of a kid?". Like, sure, men died, but it's not like there are zombies or monsters or an EMP wiped out all communications. Get your poo poo together.

I hate Yorick, it's great. Can't wait until 355 cuts off his feet so he stops getting into trouble.

4th episode was a drop in quality in my opinion, nothing too interesting.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Judakel posted:

The liberal vs. conservative characters angle is so cartoonish. Is that in the comic book?

Yeah, but only for two issues.

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


Mr. Nemo posted:

I really don't get why it's the post apocalypsis. I thought it was really funny when the leader of the new gang showed up and was like "we can't take care of a kid?". Like, sure, men died, but it's not like there are zombies or monsters or an EMP wiped out all communications. Get your poo poo together.

I hate Yorick, it's great. Can't wait until 355 cuts off his feet so he stops getting into trouble.

4th episode was a drop in quality in my opinion, nothing too interesting.

Well, for one. 95% of people who operate wind and solar plants would be dead. Our military would be decimated. 93% (I looked it up) of our cargo and container ship captains would be dead. Most of the people who know how to operate an oil platform too. There’s one female engineer for every ten male. It stands to reason that without proper training poo poo would get bad really fast.

Most of the planes and trains would crash, leaving huge amounts of damage.

What about middle eastern countries where women aren’t allowed to do certain things?

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


LinkesAuge posted:

I know this has the potential to be kind of controversial but so far the women in this show act TOO much like men in postapocalyptic settings.
Don't people (male and female) tend to band together and cooperate in disaster situations rather than getting all feral and violent anyway? I always think with post-apocalyptic stories like this, what happened to all the nice people?

Mr. Nemo posted:

I really don't get why it's the post apocalypsis.
Same. I'm not saying it is unrealistic; but I don't know whether it is or not. Because instead of showing how everything got to this point we just got jumped ahead and we're expected to just accept it. I get that half the population dying would be catastrophic, but I want some of the blanks filled in.


And I still don't give a single poo poo about Yorrick. Why is he even in the show? What is the point of him?

the escape goat
Apr 16, 2008

What a week it's been.
So much to talk about.
And so many things we can't talk about.



Tiggum posted:

And I still don't give a single poo poo about Yorrick. Why is he even in the show? What is the point of him?

He’s an extremely annoying plot device, pretty much.

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Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


I'm reading the comic, and it's interesting how the version of society we see there is a bit different. There are mass vigils and self sufficient communities, though also roving gangs and fires.

You get the sense that society is making an active attempt to bounce back and rebuild itself, even though a bunch of people are just saying gently caress it, or devolving into collective trauma.

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