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MadHat
Mar 31, 2011


thetoughestbean posted:

So how bout that Diablo 2 Remaster. I hear it has problems

At least they appear to be normal rushed game problems and not WTF are you doing problems.

So progress?

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Potsticker
Jan 13, 2006




Kith posted:

tracer's polish name is smuga

smuga balls

16-bit Butt-Head
Dec 25, 2014



thetoughestbean posted:

So how bout that Diablo 2 Remaster. I hear it has problems

the only complaints im seeing is people discovering that the old game still plays like an old game and isnt like they remembered it when they were 12 years old. as a remaster it seems fine and if you liked diablo 2 you will probably enjoy it

16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 5, 2021

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





thetoughestbean posted:

So how bout that Diablo 2 Remaster. I hear it has problems

What's a diablo 2 remaster? I still have my Diablo 2 CDs and the Lord of Destruction expac in a bookshelf at home. Granted the OG games run like crap on windows 10, though.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

The hell is this?



Fallen Rib

The studio formerly known as Vicarious Visions worked on Diablo 2 Resurrected, right? I legit feel bad that they are caught in the middle of all of this. First they were made into a grunt work studio, and now this.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Imagine having your work unit transferred from Activision to Blizzard where you went from a probably boring programmer drone existence to cube crawls and poo poo being the norm.

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.


FeatherFloat posted:

Yeah, the whole "feels like they're punishing the player base for being bad" thing implies that it's a punishment to... not have as many boobies in a game? That the act of altering the cleavage/naked lady/innuendo content of a game is stripping something vital and essential? Why do so many discussions about "I wish the female characters could cover up some" get countered by "you just hate fun, you're taking my fun away, why can't we have FUN???".

the painting removal, in context, is perfectly reasonable. mostly the way it's being told to people from third parties is done with an agenda to cover that up or make it sound like all paintings of women are being removed, which leads to a lot of the weird takes about it. people just looking for excuses to get outraged basically.

the armor change is a lot less cool, but afaik they already walked the change back. it's a fantasy game played by adults (especially anyone who's been playing it for 18 years or whatever at this point) and feeling sexy in an over the top way is something adults should be allowed to do. removing that option is effectively slut shaming, especially with the huge amount of non sexualized armor available in the game. the change would've made more sense if all the armor in wow was like that, but it's not. and to bring it back to the first point: people here are behaving as if all armor in the game *is* sexualized, so they can be properly outraged about it. lol

https://www.wowhead.com/transmog-sets#gallery

the infamous "boob plate" is one sexualized armor set among literally hundreds, and that one redeeming feature makes it popular. people like being sexy, especially in a fantasy game.

Minera fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Oct 5, 2021

Metis of the Hallways
Aug 1, 2014




Update:

I've changed the title and added a note to the OP to emphasise that this isn't just another Blizzard discussion thread, it's a thread dedicated to issues in the games industry as a whole. That means labor issues, abuses, organizing, any other kinds of movements are all relevant. Of course Activision and Blizzard are going to be hot topics, especially at the moment but please try to keep to discussion of issues in the news, rather than just chat. This isn't a hard and fast rule, just a request to keep the thread a little more focused.

Thanks!

Magmarashi
May 20, 2009







Minrad posted:

the painting removal, in context, is perfectly reasonable. mostly the way it's being told to people from third parties is done with an agenda to cover that up or make it sound like all paintings of women are being removed, which leads to a lot of the weird takes about it. people just looking for excuses to get outraged basically.

the armor change is a lot less cool, but afaik they already walked the change back. it's a fantasy game played by adults (especially anyone who's been playing it for 18 years or whatever at this point) and feeling sexy in an over the top way is something adults should be allowed to do. removing that option is effectively slut shaming, especially with the huge amount of non sexualized armor available in the game. the change would've made more sense if all the armor in wow was like that, but it's not. and to bring it back to the first point: people here are behaving as if all armor in the game *is* sexualized, so they can be properly outraged about it. lol

https://www.wowhead.com/transmog-sets#gallery

the infamous "boob plate" is one sexualized armor set among literally hundreds, and that one redeeming feature makes it popular. people like being sexy, especially in a fantasy game.

The real solution is any boobplate armor or mage corset should be changed so it's also sexy and revealing on male player models as well

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:


FeatherFloat posted:

And like, this feels insincere because it's Blizzard and they haven't done enough yet to earn any benefit of the doubt that this is a first step in a long line of fixes versus it's a quick coat of paint that will never be revisited or followed up on in the future once the heat has died down. It's not bad because too-showy demonstrations of diversity and inclusion are somehow inherently bad. The example given of the "best" video game inclusion move being one that wasn't announced is like... is diversity only good if you don't talk about it? Don't discuss it? Don't make anyone uncomfortable with the implication that maybe things before weren't as good? Don't be showy and obvious about it? Don't be too queer, too feminist, too woke? Maybe that's not what's being implied but that's the feeling I get when people say that the best ways of doing this are the most invisible, and anything too overt is "at the expense" of some pure, "neutral" version of the thing.
Showy demonstrations of diversity and inclusion from any major organization are super suspect though, because unlike people, the vast majority actually are poo poo (though to different degrees/in different ways). Being showy/not showy about it isn't inherently an issue, you're right, but being showy about it indicates that it is a PR stunt, rather than something the organization truly stands for. Like all of Blizzard's big attempts at showing how diversity and inclusive it is, which basically meant poo poo for how the company was actually run. Conversely, silently rolling out these changes over time would indicate that the company does actually intend to live up to the mission implied by those changes, because it's not being used for PR.

I can understand why you're reading it like you are though, because criticisms of rainbow capitalism have two things to focus on - and that post sounded more like the relatively reasonable intro to a critique of/rant about the first part, rather than the setup to a discussion on the ways capitalism attempts to put diversity into neat little boxes it can sell back to people.

Of course another aspect to it is where your focus lies. If you're the type of person to look at the big picture, this sort of thing basically just registers as a weak smokescreen, while someone who's a bit more about the small scale would see employees getting a chance to actually change poo poo they care about. The fact that organizations aren't just individuals kinda complicates the discourse beyond the yes to diversity/no to diversity issue. Positive impulses at one level can be turned negative as the people heading the organization use them for their own ends.

A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Oct 5, 2021

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



New Super Metis posted:

Update:

I've changed the title and added a note to the OP to emphasise that this isn't just another Blizzard discussion thread, it's a thread dedicated to issues in the games industry as a whole. That means labor issues, abuses, organizing, any other kinds of movements are all relevant. Of course Activision and Blizzard are going to be hot topics, especially at the moment but please try to keep to discussion of issues in the news, rather than just chat. This isn't a hard and fast rule, just a request to keep the thread a little more focused.

Thanks!

There are a bunch of other dysfunctional or just plain peculiar companies that are on brand for this thread.

DICE had a bunch of huge issues a couple of years ago though idk as much about the current state of it (one part of their issues culminated in a bug that persisted *for months* in the live version of battlefield that was causing players to not render. Respawn has had some weird stuff happening with the titanfall/apex games despite their otherwise huge success. Bioware apparently had a fairly substantial implosion several years back, though I know very few of the details of it. There's clearly some stories to be told wrt what's happening with Amazon games (anyone remember crucible? the only game I am aware of that was actually unreleased after it was released). Bethesday clearly went through some major rough patch a couple of years ago.

Oh yeah and there are clearly some stories out there about valve's lateral heirarchy, which obviously works insofar as the company is profitable, but clearly is one of the least productive developers out there relative to their operating expenses

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Minrad posted:

the painting removal, in context, is perfectly reasonable. mostly the way it's being told to people from third parties is done with an agenda to cover that up or make it sound like all paintings of women are being removed, which leads to a lot of the weird takes about it. people just looking for excuses to get outraged basically.

the armor change is a lot less cool, but afaik they already walked the change back. it's a fantasy game played by adults (especially anyone who's been playing it for 18 years or whatever at this point) and feeling sexy in an over the top way is something adults should be allowed to do. removing that option is effectively slut shaming, especially with the huge amount of non sexualized armor available in the game. the change would've made more sense if all the armor in wow was like that, but it's not. and to bring it back to the first point: people here are behaving as if all armor in the game *is* sexualized, so they can be properly outraged about it. lol

https://www.wowhead.com/transmog-sets#gallery

the infamous "boob plate" is one sexualized armor set among literally hundreds, and that one redeeming feature makes it popular. people like being sexy, especially in a fantasy game.

Thinking about how for over a decade the community accepted term for skimpy outfits is called Slut Mogs and one of the biggest WoW streamers is called Slootbag and maybe the censorers had the right idea.

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


Magmarashi posted:

The real solution is any boobplate armor or mage corset should be changed so it's also sexy and revealing on male player models as well

afaik this is the way FF14 rolls. For example, dudes also get to wear 2B's sexy thigh high boots

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Tarezax posted:

For example, dudes also get to wear 2B's sexy thigh high boots

Even with the weird busted ankles from them having the circumference of your thumb and middle finger joined together.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

Tarezax posted:

afaik this is the way FF14 rolls. For example, dudes also get to wear 2B's sexy thigh high boots

lots of leg slot items are quantumly pants or miniskirts+thigh highs depending on who puts them on

That's about the extent of it, though. There's a few scattered armor sets with big gender differences other than a pant/skirt switch, but not many

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~




cheetah7071 posted:

lots of leg slot items are quantumly pants or miniskirts+thigh highs depending on who puts them on

That's about the extent of it, though. There's a few scattered armor sets with big gender differences other than a pant/skirt switch, but not many



(this is probably the most egregious example in the game though)

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

SirSamVimes posted:



(this is probably the most egregious example in the game though)

that's the exact one I was thinking of when I mentioned there being a few random exceptions

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Tarezax posted:

afaik this is the way FF14 rolls. For example, dudes also get to wear 2B's sexy thigh high boots

Yeah but the rest of the Nier raid models are almost completely unique across male/female models which sucks.

PneumonicBook
Sep 26, 2007

Do you like our owl?





Ultra Carp

SirSamVimes posted:



(this is probably the most egregious example in the game though)

I really wish my bunny gal could wear Dragoon armor without a gaping hole asking to be stabbed Sylvanas style.

The Gadfly
Sep 23, 2012


Eej posted:

Yeah but the rest of the Nier raid models are almost completely unique across male/female models which sucks.

People are going to complain no matter what, so my opinion is that any game should just stick to the original artist(s) vision, and let people either buy the game if they like it, or not buy the game if they don't like it.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


The Gadfly posted:

People are going to complain no matter what, so my opinion is that any game should just stick to the original artist(s) vision, and let people either buy the game if they like it, or not buy the game if they don't like it.

That doesn't make sense in the context of an MMO. How do you vote with your wallet for side content that you wish had more options when it comes at part of your monthly sub?

The Gadfly
Sep 23, 2012


I guess spend money on cash shop gear in the direction of whatever you like in the game? Almost all MMOs have a cash shop now (which is unfortunate imo, but besides the point).

sirtommygunn
Mar 7, 2013





You will never be able to overcome the market power of horny teens.

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner


The Gadfly posted:

I guess spend money on cash shop gear in the direction of whatever you like in the game? Almost all MMOs have a cash shop now (which is unfortunate imo, but besides the point).

"Give them more money to show them what you wouldn't spend money on" is not a great plan and the opposite of what "vote with your wallet" generally means.

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!



Fallen Rib

Youth pastor about to ban Tekken from game night rotation voice:

Disargeria posted:

maybe this game doesn't need all these scantily clad women around.

Captain Gordon
Jul 22, 2004

:10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux:

Magmarashi posted:

The real solution is any boobplate armor or mage corset should be changed so it's also sexy and revealing on male player models as well

Totally agree, and as someone else pointed out thats how FF14 does it (its not perfect, but its pretty good). I can choose whether my character looks badass or sexy regardless of gender in FF, where WoW railroads male models into badass styles and female models into sexy styles.

The real solution is to give the players more choices on how to express themselves through their character rather than impose absurdly puritanical values. At the end of the day its just a pixelated painting so who cares, but the intent behind the changes does not feel genuine at all given whats happening in Blizzard right now.


If the painting was an oversexualized image of a blizz intern, yikes. I havent heard this until now.

Disargeria posted:

This is also quite a selection of words

What I meant by d+i not interfering with the experience is a criticism of hamfisted, forced diversity thats often done in an extremely lazy way. The example that jumps to my mind is BF1, where the devs danced with the idea of a quasi-historical WW1 setting with all the baggage that came with it. On one hand, they kept the historical racism and sexism (which is clearly shown in the single player campaign), and on the other hand, they had gender-mixed armies, which is an oxymoron. In my opinion, if they wanted to tell less known WW1 stories, they could have easily kept the historical aestetic and focused on real stories of women or poc's during WW1 - there are plenty of examples to draw from here. Instead, we get this weird world where sexism and racism exist and are a huge focal point of storytelling, yet the historical struggle against these awful concepts is either non-existant or serverely undermined.






Captain Gordon fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Oct 5, 2021

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

The hell is this?



Fallen Rib

Ahem



Granted, I don't think there is anything like...this in HW onward. 2.0 Armor direction was WILD.

EDIT: Okay, it was already quoted so I may as well edit it back in. However, I think I misread the original post and did not realize we were talking about gendered armor, not skimpy armor.

Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Oct 5, 2021

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


I suppose you could Not Buy the bust enhancing Bavarian Beer Maid female-only outfit in the FFXIV cash shop but it's not like Not Buying is an actual measurable metric.

Unlucky7 posted:

Ahem



Granted, I don't think there is anything like...this in HW onward. 2.0 Armor direction was WILD.

Yeah most of that stuff including Dragoon AF1 are ported over from 1.0. Most subsequent stuff has been pretty tame even though they continue to lock new stuff to gender.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Blizzard lawsuit intensifies. The State of California has intervened in the EEOC settlement, alleging that the settlement was used as a way to destroy and disqualify evidence of interest to their own investigation by manipulating one investigating agency against the other.

Hauki
May 11, 2010





l m a o

External Organs
Mar 3, 2006

i love ye and i preciate ye and im thinkin bout ye ever day and night

Hauki posted:

l m a o

The recurring corruption trope was projection all along.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006






External Organs posted:

The recurring corruption trope was projection all along.

Holy poo poo lol

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus





External Organs posted:

The recurring corruption trope was projection all along.

Metzen tried to warn us!

sharknado slashfic
Jun 24, 2011



The Blizzard, the

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

GOD'S FAVORITE CHAMPION



Okay is the presidemt of blizzard ACTUALLY Arcturus Mengsk?

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


Blaise330 posted:

Okay is the presidemt of blizzard ACTUALLY Arcturus Mengsk?

Mengsk was clever

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


figured they were more like raynor because it was all vultures at the top

Malah
May 18, 2015




Every time I'm tempted by D2:R or D4, some new horror manages to ooze out of Blizzard's cesspit or develop further.

I'm generally pessimistic on the odds of capital actually suffering consequences for their horrific actions, but there are so many different suits and agencies going after Blizz simultaneously that one or even several could do serious damage. Assuming that the govt actually does something to stop Blizzard from destroying (further) evidence or silencing (more) witnesses, without screwing up each othe-

:shepface:

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

GOD'S FAVORITE CHAMPION


I was comparing it to Mengsk using the zerg to destroy his enemies. But yeah blizz did the dumber version.

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Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


anime was right posted:

figured they were more like raynor because it was all vultures at the top

Vultures were the harassment unit, too

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