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Vakal
May 11, 2008


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Blizzard's claim to fame is stealing other peoples ideas and then slow-cooking them until the serial numbers have worn off (see warhammer > warcraft)

Whenever they have to come up with something original or expand on the story of what they made you can see them slowly stumble.

At least they filed the serial numbers off, which is more than some gaming companies do.

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anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


Vakal posted:

At least they filed the serial numbers off, which is more than some gaming companies do.



lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1vwlTZ5EGQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-4XsDQYDi4

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Vakal posted:

At least they filed the serial numbers off, which is more than some gaming companies do.



stealing wholesale from things you like to create your own art is ftw.

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

GOD'S FAVORITE CHAMPION


Moola posted:

meanwhile the Chrono Trigger XIV mmo is wildly successful

The reality where theres 16 chrono games and multiple spinoffs but only two final fantasies sounds interesting.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Horizon Burning posted:

never understood blizzard's treatment of overwatch. it's been remarkably clear for years that the appeal of overwatch was the characters (and SFM porn) and the shooter part was, like, no one's favorite part. why blizzard didn't make an RPG or adventure game or whatever that actually focuses on what people like instead of trying to make The Future Of ESports.

After the first few cinematics/trailers were so well received I really expected it to pivot into a multimedia franchise. An Overwatch Netflix show or even a movie would have done incredibly well in 2017 if they'd been able to find a studio to keep up with that level of animation and someone talented enough to write a long form story.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Please ensure incidental bones are logged under the appropriate cost code.


stev posted:

After the first few cinematics/trailers were so well received I really expected it to pivot into a multimedia franchise. An Overwatch Netflix show or even a movie would have done incredibly well in 2017 if they'd been able to find a studio to keep up with that level of animation and someone talented enough to write a long form story.

This is Hollywood, just have someone rewrite the whole script after every focus group (preferably mid-shooting/recording/rendering)

Algid
Oct 9, 2007




Blaise330 posted:

The reality where theres 16 chrono games and multiple spinoffs but only two final fantasies sounds interesting.
I want to kill Lavos. Need to. It's not a hope or a dream. It's like a hunger. A thirst.

My alt reality wish is that early MTG just printed out entire sets for purchase and established the entire genre as a game first instead of collectables. I think I played Hearthstone like once for half an hour, smoothing out resource gain seems nice but going through the slow tutorial sapped my will to figure out how to construct decks, which is probably for the best. I assume it's monetized even worse than a gacha given that it's a tcg?

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Algid posted:

I want to kill Lavos. Need to. It's not a hope or a dream. It's like a hunger. A thirst.

My alt reality wish is that early MTG just printed out entire sets for purchase and established the entire genre as a game first instead of collectables. I think I played Hearthstone like once for half an hour, smoothing out resource gain seems nice but going through the slow tutorial sapped my will to figure out how to construct decks, which is probably for the best. I assume it's monetized even worse than a gacha given that it's a tcg?

Hearthstone is financially similar to every other TCG insofar as if you're looking to compete remotely seriously in constructed play you can look forward to dropping, on average, a couple hundred dollars every single time a new set comes out to ensure you have access to every important card. If you're okay with not being particularly competitive you can skate by for substantially less, but you will almost assuredly not be keeping up with the meta. If you're a pure draft mode warrior, you can play for a whole lot less, but not everyone likes drafts.

There was a controversial update last year which ended up making the game even less generous to f2p players, to boot.

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


stev posted:

After the first few cinematics/trailers were so well received I really expected it to pivot into a multimedia franchise. An Overwatch Netflix show or even a movie would have done incredibly well in 2017 if they'd been able to find a studio to keep up with that level of animation and someone talented enough to write a long form story.

I’m also just dumbfounded by how many squandered opportunities they had to make it into some kind of massive, mainstream multimedia franchise, considering it was their newest property, so there wouldn’t be anywhere near as many problems with having to recap for people who were unfamiliar with it. Instead, it just wound up being a bunch of professional machinima and comics that kept starting stories, but never seemed to actually go anywhere with them.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Regalingualius posted:

I’m also just dumbfounded by how many squandered opportunities they had to make it into some kind of massive, mainstream multimedia franchise, considering it was their newest property, so there wouldn’t be anywhere near as many problems with having to recap for people who were unfamiliar with it. Instead, it just wound up being a bunch of professional machinima and comics that kept starting stories, but never seemed to actually go anywhere with them.

When investing in that sort of side content, you want it to funnel people back into the game but turns out that most people hooked on the character designs and world building fuckin' hated playing the game and the changes made to appeal to them just pissed off anyone looking to play a shooter instead of first person wow arena.

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010


I kinda saw Overwatch being a disaster coming from release when they attempted to shove the tank-healer-dps holy trinity of MMORPGs into an FPS format and it really seems like every major problem of the game since has been due to that in one way or another.

Boogle
Sep 1, 2004



Nap Ghost

Pirate Jet posted:

I kinda saw Overwatch being a disaster coming from release when they attempted to shove the tank-healer-dps holy trinity of MMORPGs into an FPS format and it really seems like every major problem of the game since has been due to that in one way or another.

People play FPSes for shootmans, not play rectangle guy or healbot. Its also why queues are poo poo and why they have to use those priority queue passes to even make it playable.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Boogle posted:

People play FPSes for shootmans, not play rectangle guy or healbot. Its also why queues are poo poo and why they have to use those priority queue passes to even make it playable.

I mean a lot of people do play healers and support classes though.

The TF2 comics were really good. I feel like playing that game.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





I didn't mind the healers and tanks when they were fun to play.

I mostly just played Junkrat though because I could fire at random and almost always kill something.

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


HopperUK posted:

I mean a lot of people do play healers and support classes though.

The TF2 comics were really good. I feel like playing that game.

Yeah but (a lot) more people play DPS, hence the queues.

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


Boogle posted:

People play FPSes for shootmans, not play rectangle guy or healbot. Its also why queues are poo poo and why they have to use those priority queue passes to even make it playable.

I played a shitload of OW back when I could fly around and rez an entire team. Then they made flying bad and removed that button and I stopped playing.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



tf2 worked because there was one healer and one tank and 12 people per team. odds are someone would pick one of each even if most people wanted to play sniper or whatever. ow has half the slots and 5x the tanks/healers and you were expected to have 2 tanks and one healer. its like 10% of the team being expected to pay a fun tax versus 50% of the team.

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


I mean ffs part of why OW did well is that it appealed to people who don't normally play FPS games. Everyone I know who played OW fanatically back when it was new didn't play other pvp FPS games before or after OW.

Zinkraptor
Apr 23, 2012

Not actually present



Endorph posted:

tf2 worked because there was one healer and one tank and 12 people per team. odds are someone would pick one of each even if most people wanted to play sniper or whatever. ow has half the slots and 5x the tanks/healers and you were expected to have 2 tanks and one healer. its like 10% of the team being expected to pay a fun tax versus 50% of the team.

Plus Heavy isn’t even really a tank the way Overwatch tanks are tanks, he just has a lot of health. He does very little to directly prevent damage or protect teammates except by killing enemies who are about to do said damage or harm said teammates.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



yeah ultimately i just think a guy who creates a giant shield wall isnt really good fps design

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006
Check out my hot takes because I'm a straight white male

Barriers aren't fun to shoot or break.

IncendiaC
Sep 25, 2011


Endorph posted:

tf2 worked because there was one healer and one tank and 12 people per team. odds are someone would pick one of each even if most people wanted to play sniper or whatever. ow has half the slots and 5x the tanks/healers and you were expected to have 2 tanks and one healer. its like 10% of the team being expected to pay a fun tax versus 50% of the team.

TF2 worked because it didn't try to shoehorn tank-healer-DPS MMO raid roles into a shooter. The support classes weren't limited to just healers and provided a lot of non-direct combat utility that was also really fun

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

GOD'S FAVORITE CHAMPION


man remember when like 200 episodes of inuyasha was about trying to break the bad guy's various barriers? That's what fighting double shield comps feels like.

Real Cool Catfish
Jun 6, 2011


Reinhardt main btw.

Because I was bad at aiming.

And you don’t need to aim a hammer that takes up the entire screen.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Zinkraptor posted:

Plus Heavy isn’t even really a tank the way Overwatch tanks are tanks, he just has a lot of health. He does very little to directly prevent damage or protect teammates except by killing enemies who are about to do said damage or harm said teammates.

I loved playing medic in TF2. The Heavy was just big enough you could tuck in behind him.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



OW was the almost perfect game to get people who don't play FPS into a loosely shootery genre. That level of approachability is also totally anathema to forcing a game into being a top-end esport

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011


Has there been any game designed from the ground up to be the next big E-SPORTS game that stuck the landing without breaking their legs on entry?

Seems like every game people like to watch others play competitively focused on trying to be a good game first and foremost.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Has there been any game designed from the ground up to be the next big E-SPORTS game that stuck the landing without breaking their legs on entry?

Seems like every game people like to watch others play competitively focused on trying to be a good game first and foremost.

Valorant?

Blaise330
Aug 13, 2007

GOD'S FAVORITE CHAMPION


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Has there been any game designed from the ground up to be the next big E-SPORTS game that stuck the landing without breaking their legs on entry?

Seems like every game people like to watch others play competitively focused on trying to be a good game first and foremost.

street fighter 5 launched with no arcade or story mode but slowly became a success overall through patches, having a very forgiving fanbase, constant dev support, and being a 90s franchise thats too big to fully fail. Also dota 2 launched with a million dollar esports tourney. Being a sequel helps cause people had years to fall in love with the franchise casually in the previous game. OW being as big as it was without being a sequel was a huge blown opportunity.

Blaise330 fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 27, 2021

anime was right
Jun 27, 2008

death is certain
keep yr cool


Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

Has there been any game designed from the ground up to be the next big E-SPORTS game that stuck the landing without breaking their legs on entry?

Seems like every game people like to watch others play competitively focused on trying to be a good game first and foremost.

starcraft 2 was absolutely designed to be an esport and had a pretty good run. not a perfect game but it has a scene that still exists to this day.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



Esports are like my posts.

Bad.

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Blaise330 posted:

street fighter 5 launched with no arcade or story mode but slowly became a success overall through patches, having a very forgiving fanbase, constant dev support, and being a 90s franchise thats too big to fully fail. Also dota 2 launched with a million dollar esports tourney. Being a sequel helps cause people had years to fall in love with the franchise casually in the previous game. OW being as big as it was without being a sequel was a huge blown opportunity.

citation needed, game still sucks

Count Uvula
Dec 20, 2011


Ya'll hating on OW having tanks when the off-tanks were the most hilariously fun part of that game. Just playing an unkillable gently caress whose whole job was bullying the absolute poo poo out of the enemy team, usually by pulling or pushing them in to pits? Absolute innovation for the genre.

The downside of being the off-tank was playing during the double barrier meta and having people complain about your pick, when diamond rank players are still too loving stupid and finnicky to not create opportunities to hook somebody and ruin their team's whole phalanx bullshit.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

OW was the almost perfect game to get people who don't play FPS into a loosely shootery genre. That level of approachability is also totally anathema to forcing a game into being a top-end esport

:hai:

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Overwatch sucked and I'm glad people are finally realizing it.

Rexicon1
Oct 9, 2007

A Shameful Path Led You Here

Overwatch was fun to play until people started taking it “seriously”. Esports are the death of fun.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003
:toot:

Rexicon1 posted:

Overwatch was fun to play until people started taking it “seriously”. Esports are the death of fun.

This is where I float. Most fun I ever had in Overwatch was right at the beginning when no one knew wtf was good and then later when I would just party up with some friends on voice chat and do whatever.

That and the Mei snowball mode. Yeah, that's right, it's me. The one guy who likes the Snowball mode.

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.


mutata posted:

This is where I float. Most fun I ever had in Overwatch was right at the beginning when no one knew wtf was good and then later when I would just party up with some friends on voice chat and do whatever.

That and the Mei snowball mode. Yeah, that's right, it's me. The one guy who likes the Snowball mode.

This is what I think, too. Overwatch felt accessible in a way no other competitive shooter has before or since. Like, as much as I fondly remember hanging out with friends and playing TF2 back in the day, I was miserably bad at it, and felt like a liability to whatever team got stuck with me.

Early Overwatch, on the other hand, seemed to cater to a wide range of playstyles and skill levels, which meant I was still able to feel like I was helping my team and having a real effect on the course of a game despite my relative lack of traditional FPS skills (like, um… aiming). Playing as Mercy back then was honestly the only time I’ve really enjoyed a multiplayer shooter for the game itself.

Moola
Aug 16, 2006






The REAL Goobusters posted:

Overwatch sucked and I'm glad people are finally realizing it.

it was good!

for like 2 months starting from the beta

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Rexicon1 posted:

Overwatch was fun to play until people started taking it “seriously”. Esports are the death of fun.

can't blame esports when the game was never fun to begin with.

People who sucked at shooters loved it because it was essentially baby's first fps. Sorry, it was never good and the good stuff it did have, blizzard was very quick to nerf it because it pissed off casual players. It was rear end!

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Smiling Knight
May 31, 2011



Empress Theonora posted:

This is what I think, too. Overwatch felt accessible in a way no other competitive shooter has before or since. Like, as much as I fondly remember hanging out with friends and playing TF2 back in the day, I was miserably bad at it, and felt like a liability to whatever team got stuck with me.

Early Overwatch, on the other hand, seemed to cater to a wide range of playstyles and skill levels, which meant I was still able to feel like I was helping my team and having a real effect on the course of a game despite my relative lack of traditional FPS skills (like, um… aiming). Playing as Mercy back then was honestly the only time I’ve really enjoyed a multiplayer shooter for the game itself.

Same. I have friends who are FPS veterans, Overwatch with them made me feel like I was contributing just floating around as Mercy. I’d get a gold medal and always get thanked for heals, even by pubbies! Compare eg Valorant, where I get yelled at for buying the wrong gun or watching the wrong corner, and go whole rounds getting fragged without firing my weapon.

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