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SID MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW poo poo Sid was WWF Champion for just a few months as they were doing a rematch in Shawn Michaels’ hometown for Royal Rumble 1997. While Sid lost to Michaels, he did regain it weeks later. There’s more details on that in the Montreal Screwjob write-up. The setup to WrestleMania 13 was rather chaotic and the main event ended up being Sid defending the title against the Undertaker, with both being faces. There was virtually no story going into this other than some ties to the infinitely better Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin match on the undercard. As Bret became a furious jerk earlier in the night when he finally snapped on Austin, he ended up showing up to rant at the fans during the main event. Ultimately, he inadvertently helped Undertaker win the title. Speaking of accidents, there’s an urban legend that Sid poo poo himself during this match. It’s pretty unfounded, considering how noticeable it would have been considering his ring gear. Supposedly, if it DID actually happen, it would have been at a house show. Undertaker did once say there was truth to it and that giving the soiled Sid the Tombstone was not the happiest experience. During this whole storyline, there was a hilarious moment where Bret Hart was in the ring, screaming about how he should be champion and how he keeps getting screwed. As he put it, everybody knew he was the rightful champion. In response, Sid marched to the ring and said loud enough to hear on TV, “I DON’T KNOW poo poo, CRYBABY!” THE MILLENIUM MAN After dropping the title, Sid just kind of faded in and out of WWF right before the Attitude Era was really beginning to kick in. He returned to WCW two years later, dubbing himself “The Millennium Man.” At the time, WWF was building towards the debut of Chris Jericho with a “countdown to the millennium” that was going to reach its end during the summer of 1999. WCW decided to give Sid that nickname as a way to beat them to the punch. Soon into showing up in WCW, Sid was put into a feud with Goldberg. Now, back when Goldberg was undefeated, he was known for his awesome streak of wins. Fans would hold up signs of “[wins]-0” up until Goldberg finally lost. Though WCW started to artificially increase the number for no reason, which soured lots of fans on keeping track of it. Sid was a parody of this as he started talking up his own winning streak. It was a streak that only seemed to make sense in his own mind. He would arrive during a random tag match, powerbomb everyone in the ring, and walk off, claiming that as at least four wins. But you know what this feud needed? Destroyed cars and hammy overacting. One night, Goldberg had Sid’s car crushed into a cube and Sid lost his poo poo. In the follow-up, in a story stretched across the whole episode of Nitro, Sid tried to get revenge by having the same thing happen to Goldberg’s car. Through lots of tomfoolery, Sid’s car ended up getting crushed again as he parked in the doomed spot of 22. I insist you watch this clip. Once you’re done, you can enjoy the Taylor Swift remix. VACATION’S ALL I EVER WANTED The world title picture in WCW was a gigantic mess in its final years, but even before David Arquette and Vince Russo held the belt, there was an even messier string of title reigns that were constantly plagued with the title being vacated for one reason or another. Sometimes as part of the story, sometimes not. October 25, 1999: Storyline. Sting lost an unsanctioned match against Goldberg, lost his poo poo, and attacked the referee afterwards. Even though the title wasn’t on the line during the match, Sting’s actions caused him to be stripped of the title. A big tournament was put together to crown a new winner. December 20, 1999: Storyline. Bret Hart won the big tournament and went on to defend the title against Goldberg as Starrcade 1999. Roddy Piper was the special referee and screwed over Goldberg in some ill-explained attempt to make up for the Montreal Screwjob happening to Bret. The next night, Bret vacated the title and offered a rematch to Goldberg to crown a true champion. That was part of the ruse, as Bret restarted the nWo and they helped him win. January 16, 2000: Real. Bret Hart suffered a nasty concussion during that Starrcade match and just kept wrestling through it in the weeks following. His brain damage got too severe and he had to drop the belt and retire. Chris Benoit vs. Sid was put together as a PPV main event to crown a new champion. Benoit won. January 17, 2000: Real. While all this poo poo was going on, Vince Russo was sent home and was no longer in charge of the booking. Benoit did not like that his career would be in the hands of Kevin Sullivan (as Sullivan’s wife Nancy left him for Benoit) and was allowed to leave the promotion, along with some of his buddies. They tried to make him champion as a way to entice him to stick around, but he didn’t care. On-air, it was explained that Benoit was being stripped of the title because Sid’s legs were under the rope when he was tapping out. January 25, 2000: Storyline. Kevin Nash became the heel authority figure and told Sid that he could face him to crown a new champion, but first he had to defeat the Harris Twins earlier in the night. Sid defeated the Harris Twins and later Nash to become champ. On the following episode of Thunder, Nash stripped Sid of the title because he pinned the wrong Harris Twin during the tag match. Sid became champ by winning a cage match against Nash and Ron Harris. April 10, 2000: Storyline. Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo were basically rebooting WCW while creating a storyline about the Millionaire’s Club vs. the New Blood. This meant having everyone give up their titles for a new start. Sid was in the middle of a heel turn against Hogan and this pretty much killed that story. He was told to come to the ring and give up his title. Because Russo was writing this poo poo, he overestimated how much people knew or cared about the Arn Anderson/Sid incident from years prior. So he had Bischoff laughingly say to Sid, “What did you forget your SCISSORS?” It got zero reaction. Bischoff repeated, “I said, did you forget your SCISSORS?!” Still no response. Instead of trying to regain his title or play into the big storyline they were trying to tell, Sid just faded away for a few months. WCW had less than a year left at that point and there were STILL other title vacancies during that time. SID SNAPS IN A BAD WAY Sid came back eventually and challenged for the title, now held by Scott Steiner. At the PPV Sin, a four-man match was put together of Scott Steiner vs. Sid vs. Jeff Jarrett vs. a mystery opponent. The mystery opponent showed up on TV a few times, looking like one of those padded attackers from a self-defense class. During the match, Sid tried to do a jumping kick off the second rope, a move that management pressured him into doing in order to add to his meager moveset. Due to Sid’s lack of experience with the move and whatever all that steroid use did to his bones, the leg he landed on snapped like a twig. As he agonized in horrific pain, the mystery opponent finally showed himself on the ramp as Road Warrior Animal (a decent surprise, all things considered, since Rick Steiner seemed the obvious choice). But this reveal was a mere afterthought as Scott Steiner had to go for the pin and end this trash fire because Jesus gently caress, Sid’s leg was nasty. The initial plan was for the next PPV, SuperBrawl Revenge, to have a main event of Kevin Nash, Diamond Dallas Page, and Sid vs. Scott Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, and Road Warrior Animal, but that was changed to just Nash vs. Steiner. WCW would be bought up by Vince McMahon a month later. Sid would recover enough from his leg injury to do some indie wrestling shows (including the bizarre matchup of Sid vs. AEW’s Eddie Kingston). Also, he made a surprise cameo on Big Brother as one of the contestants was actually his son. Sid was never the best wrestler or the most memorable wrestler, but he was a fun dope who added some color to the business. Usually, that color was red from his screaming face, but still.
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Mar 20, 2022 20:33
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BiggerBoat posted:Holy poo poo. A real life Rob Liefeld drawing She's also one of the best ever. And she doesn't look anything like that these days. 
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Mar 20, 2022 20:57
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Everything Trollologist wrote about Vince Russo is something that would be entirely correct if it were objectively true (give your friends cool compliments like this to develop their self-esteem). Pro wrestling is ultimately a money business, whether that's physically getting people through the door, or selling a pay-per-view, or producing a weekly television show that people watch. Certainly, in 2022, the WWE business model is almost entirely reliant on television rights fees to the extent that you could make an argument for completely dropping pay-per-view shows and for giving tickets away for free. Or even, as TNA once did, hiring paid extras to fill out the bleachers and pretend to be enjoying their product. And Vince Russo was certainly someone who focused on television writing to the exclusion of everything else. And if that meant that he could get ten million people to watch WCW every week, or make TNA a viable competitor to WWE's ratings, I'd absolutely turn around and tell you that Vince Russo was a better (or at least, more successful) booker than whoever was running Ring Of Honor at that point. At least in the same sense that at some point you have to concede that Christopher Nolan actually knows what he's doing in terms of making movies, and I have no business approaching his money throne with a copy of Dummies' Guide To Sound Mixing. He didn't get ten million people to watch. Instead, WCW got cancelled, and basically had to be sold to Vince McMahon because AOL Time Warner didn't want it on their networks in any form. TNA got cancelled by multiple networks, and got the same viewership regardless of what happened to the point that it became a running joke. All that Russo (and, to be fair, colleagues) basically managed to do for both was to make pay-per-view costs exceed revenues and to drive away almost any fan that would have paid to see the product. In context, he was a writer for WWF magazine who impressed Vince McMahon in some way and was given a chance to sit on the writing team and throw out ideas, and Vince liked a lot of those ideas and used them. Russo has said openly that they'd have Jerry Springer on in the background and crib ideas from that, and in 1997, that worked, because Jerry Springer was the hottest thing on television in 1997. It put wrestling, and in particular Steve Austin, into being a mainstream product and a household name, in a way that it hasn't been before or since. But, when push comes to shove, it should be very clear that there's only ever been one real head writer for WWE, and that's Vince McMahon. And then he was poached by WCW, and explicitly made head writer. And certain things then became very clear. Namely, that he was an ideas guy and not a head writer. WCW at that stage was coming off the tail end of the nWo storyline, which had lasted approximately 800 years (or at least 2+) and in which every single main event had ended in some nonsense bullshit where eight gangs of men chase each other around with lead pipes if there was ever the slightest hint that someone might just win and someone might just lose. They were in desperate need of a clear narrative direction, stability, and legitimacy. Russo had no idea how to do any of those. He knew how to do the things he did in the WWF, but harder and louder. And so he did. He would make himself a character on the show, who was explicitly identified as the head writer. He would have the WCW world title change hands 25 times in a single calendar year, including reigns for both himself and for David Arquette. Several wrestlers would give promos on-air talking about how the company sucked, which were presumably intentionally broadcast. On one show, Goldberg would "walk out" on the match and the commentators were given instructions to talk about how the other wrestlers would have to "improvise a finish". Endless bizarre gimmick matches were arranged, including Buff Bagwell's mother on a pole; a pinata on a pole; a framed picture of Scott Hall on a pole; and a Viagra-on-a-pole match where you won by force-feeding your opponent Viagra. And yes, I know, Viagra doesn't even loving work that way. It's a vasodilator, so would probably have helped improve Billy Kidman's post-match rehab and not much else. If Shane Douglas really wanted to embarrass KIdman on television, he should have at least have manually stimulated him to climax (it's those little details that really build that immersion). At no point did Russo really seem to grasp the idea that the whole Austin vs McMahon storyline requires you at some fundamental level to be invested in the idea that it matters who wins, and who has the world championship, and that you're going to want to pay to see Austin hit him with the stunner, even though you understand as an adult that they're actually friends and that they're acting. You need to care for the duration of the movie that James Bond is going to kill the bad guy, despite the fact that of course he loving will, it's not late-90s WCW. But Russo's entire booking strategy had no capacity for that, it was purely Jerry Springer. You didn't care about any of these assholes, but you'd keep watching in case these two strippers might have their tiddies pop out and start flying everywhere while they beat each other with chairs. It didn't do much for ratings, but like I mentioned earlier, what it absolutely did do was kill off any remaining pay-per-view market they had. Or any credibility the WCW belts ever had. Or any interest anyone under 40 had in working for them rather than WWE. And then WCW died a death, and Russo went to TNA since he was friends with Jarrett. And we learnt something else. Russo never, ever learnt anything new. The Jerry Springer stuff worked in 1997 because that was the zeitgeist. And then ten years later, in a post-9/11, post-Sasha Grey world, he was still booking matches between Triple X and Sports Entertainment Xtreme. Women were still coming out and calling each other whores. Val Venis was still coming out and saying that Velvet Sky was going to get naked on TV, even though if Velvet wanted to be naked on camera she would already have an EvilAngel contract and both more money and dignity. It wasn't even fun, it was just tired and stupid and boring, and the fans would sit on their hands and chant "fire Russo", whether it was actually Russo's idea or not. And now he is an old man who doesn't get why the wrestlers with Twitch streams are popular, because, again, as I note, he understood nothing and learned nothing. He pointed at the moon once (with some assistance) and then kept staring at his own finger for the next twenty years. However, he did try and introduce people to the word of Jesus Christ through the power of headlocks, which doesn't so much get him credit as being a thing that also happened once
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Mar 20, 2022 21:03
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A Christian themed wrestling stable would be fun if it was insane poo poo and not like weird white guys talking about God. "DEAR JESUS! SCION'S USING THE PILLARS OF GOMORRAH ON KING DAVID... WAIT WHAT?! IS THAT GOLIATH'S SHOFAR?!" do yeah basically Lucha Underground with dumb Christian iconography
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Mar 20, 2022 21:20
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Everything Trollologist wrote about Vince Russo is something that would be entirely correct if it were objectively true (give your friends cool compliments like this to develop their self-esteem). If there's a dagger in this post aimed for my heart, I'm too dumb to feel it. Trollologist fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 21:37
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Trollologist posted:If there's a dagger in this post aimed for my heart, I'm too dumb to feel it. it was more a broad recognition of the absolute tautological meaninglessness of "I agree with everything here other than the fact that I think it's all wrong" but will I withdraw that statement? absolutely not
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Mar 20, 2022 22:09
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FullLeatherJacket posted:it was more a broad recognition of the absolute tautological meaninglessness of "I agree with everything here other than the fact that I think it's all wrong" I respect your opinion and your right to have it  Also, a christian-themed promotion sounds dope, but it really needs to be like, 75% bible man. More Russo Chat: Russo Cuts a Promo that belongs in this thread.(although, it's a little too pro Jarrett for my taste). Here he is "firing" "Hulk" "Hogan" "at" Bash at the Beach 2000 2 things about Bash at the Beach 2000: - Cinematic matches 20 years ahead of time - Black world champ Booker T. Which is either super progressive for wrestling or par for the course depending on how "black" you consider The Rock (I'm not opening the  about it)
Trollologist fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 22:16
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I'm honestly surprised some of the southern evangelical radio, TV or megachurches haven't branched out into some sort of god v the devil style wrestling themed thing as a money maker. For all I know it's been done. Seems like it'd be money a maker and would bring in the rubes left and right since i imagine there's some cross over audience there in places like Alabama and Arkansas or whatever. "Right after the service...it's the God Squad against Satan's Soldiers in a tag team match for the Holy Belt! RAPTURE RASSLIN!" - tickets on sale in the lobby I can see it now. You'd have like pastors as managers and poo poo with some kind of goth looking UNdertaker looking dudes on the other side. Rasslin on Saturday, church on Sunday. Or...make everyone sit through the boring sermon first. Put a bible or a crucifix on top of a ladder, spend a little money on lighting, fog and sound or some poo poo and the loving heels and faces write themselves. Faces could read scripture or some poo poo and heels could say mean things about the bible. They're probably worried too many people would root for the cool demon characters. Or just worried that anything that's fun or that people like is the Devil's work in the first place. Then again, these churches like to make money so...? I bet it's been done. Off to google for me.
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Mar 21, 2022 00:59
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm honestly surprised some of the southern evangelical radio, TV or megachurches haven't branched out into some sort of god v the devil style wrestling themed thing as a money maker. For all I know it's been done. Seems like it'd be money a maker and would bring in the rubes left and right since i imagine there's some cross over audience there in places like Alabama and Arkansas or whatever. Well, there was the time Vince McMahon feuded with God https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5MwM2uFcQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGWWpyFGFU
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Mar 21, 2022 01:11
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BiggerBoat posted:RAPTURE RASSLIN! 1) I agree this is a good idea. But for as much greed and scumbaggery that some churches have, I don't think they'd sully themselves to associate with Pro Wrestling. Wrestling needs some, like dignity for churches to work with it.
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Mar 21, 2022 01:40
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Trollologist posted:1) I agree this is a good idea. Have you seen what some of the "dignified" poo poo these churches get up to? Miracle spring water and poo poo?
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Mar 21, 2022 01:56
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I job for the Lord
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Mar 21, 2022 01:58
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BiggerBoat posted:Have you seen what some of the "dignified" poo poo these churches get up to? Miracle spring water and poo poo? I never said churches had dignity. Like that one crazy guy selling bleach cures to covid. Total scumbag. But churches, by and large, still position themselves as fundamentally helpful and altruistic. Whereas wrestling is explicitly a scam or con that the audience is kind of in on. Again, people don't want to associate with an open scam (even if it's kind of not but also sort of is), especially scumbag evangelicals selling bleach cures.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:11
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I could have sworn that I read that Ted dibiase had run a Christian wrestling federation and hbk was involved for at least one match.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:11
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there are a lot of born again christian wrestlers so it doesnt surprise me tbh
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Mar 21, 2022 02:17
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FilthyImp posted:Christian iconography 
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Mar 21, 2022 02:20
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The CWF is a thing! http://christianwrestling.com/ But it seems to be more "Indy fed with a god theme" and less "Satan worshippers v holy Jesus believers" rasslin' The latter being what I'd like to see. But if you want to see body slams for Christ, you can head down to the LORDATORIAM (amazing name holy poo poo) in FATE, TX (goddamn) to check it out. Support your local Indy, unless they're gross or scummy, the don't?
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Mar 21, 2022 02:26
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I support Christian wrestling he'll get into the hof and edge wont, at this rate lol
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Mar 21, 2022 02:47
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What's the actual wrestling hall of fame, as opposed to the thing that WWE has that includes such in-ring legends like Donald Trump and Drew Carey.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:33
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SirPhoebos posted:What's the actual wrestling hall of fame, as opposed to the thing that WWE has that includes such in-ring legends like Donald Trump and Drew Carey. There's a National Wrestling Hall of Fame in Waterloo, Iowa, which has wings for amateur, Greco-Roman and professional wrestling.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:39
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Like the territories of old, there's a few. How about the Professional Wrestling Hall Of Fame? Perhaps the Cauliflower Alley Club? There's also the longest running 'dirt shirt' of all time, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame. Edit: Also that one. -points up-
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Mar 21, 2022 03:42
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Protestant vs Catholic rivalries, with Orthodox wildcards, also maybe a Mormon in there somewhere. Old political memes are bubbling up, B-Rock 'The Islamic Shock' Hussein vs Mad Mormon Mitty.
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Mar 21, 2022 05:00
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there was the brief period where D-von Dudley was repackaged with a preacher gimmick and came out to condemn the audience for jackin' it too much to which Ron Simmons had to come out and argue in front of a live crowd that actually it was cool and good to jack it all the drat time it wasn't a great gimmick, but it did lead to an important debut
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Mar 21, 2022 09:06
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FullLeatherJacket posted:there was the brief period where D-von Dudley was repackaged with a preacher gimmick and came out to condemn the audience for jackin' it too much Batista looks so different in that video than what he does now.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:40
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Hollismason posted:Batista looks so different in that video than what he does now. That was right before I stopped watching wrestling for a decade so Batista is still “the deacon Batista” to me.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:44
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Seems like you could have done something with sort of an exorcist angle using the Undertaker or Kain. Vial of holy water or a crucifix hidden in someone's tights. IIRC they've done vampire poo poo before. Or some kind of high and mighty pompous born again jerk who's going to "save" sinning wrestlers (by whipping their asses in the square circle, natch) or some kind of "REDEMPTION RUMBLE" ppv. The Holy Roller, who grabs the mic before every match and bores everyone to death reading bible verses and playing hymns, delaying the match and working everyone into a frenzy to just get on with it. Big finishing move called The Crucifyer. I could honestly see it. Or some overly aggressive pain in the rear end called The Witness who interrupts every loving promo or match with a doorbell chime and a bunch of watchtower pamphlets that refuses to leave the ring or let the interview happen. The Mormons, a tag team pair, where they can never actually wrestle because they're constantly somewhere else doing missionary things but still talk a lot of poo poo via satellite from Africa or Antartica how they're gonna gently caress everybody up once they get back. They dress like the Brady Bunch or the Osmonds. The Preacher. This guy refuses to perform until he gets enough credit card or Pay Pal donations in order to make sure it's god's will that he actually wrestles. His occasional tag team partner is The Faith Healer (or maybe "Faith" for short) who lays hands on the guy tagging out or who is out cold in the ring and then cures his leg/arm/whatever. The Cult. These are the bad guys. They write themselves. Thetan. The scientologist. This guy is a reincarnated alien from the distant past and...ah, gently caress it. This is from wikipedia so there's your character right there. quote:Scientology followers believe that a human is an immortal, spiritual being (Thetan) that is resident in a physical body. The Thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is observed in advanced (and – within the movement – secret) Scientology texts that lives preceding the Thetan's arrival on Earth were lived in extraterrestrial cultures. Scientology doctrine states that any Scientologist undergoing "auditing" will eventually come across and recount a common series of events.[26] Part of these events include reference to an extraterrestrial life-form called Xenu. The secret Scientology texts say this was a ruler of a confederation of planets 70 million years ago, who brought billions of alien beings to Earth and then killed them with thermonuclear weapons. .[27] Call him Xenu if you want cause that sounds more like a wrestler name; or maybe that's the tag team partner. Hire me, Vince. blunt posted:Well, there was the time Vince McMahon feuded with God Good lord wrestling is stupid. It does make me laugh though. "Get outta my arena, spotlight! Coming into my ring acting like you're god almighty or something! gently caress off, god."
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Mar 21, 2022 15:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R81YmqDSWzU
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Mar 21, 2022 15:51
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of course, there was also another very brief period where jake the snake had a born-again gimmick, which is again one of those things that wwe completely memory-holed other than one very specific moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWPoQWdmjg and that's why that was ever a thing
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Mar 21, 2022 16:52
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that gimmick also gave us stone cold steve austin's first catchphrase
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Mar 21, 2022 17:14
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:that gimmick also gave us stone cold steve austin's first catchphrase And his first couple big selling shirts
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Mar 21, 2022 17:20
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I'd be honestly surprised if there hasn't been an in-ring exorcism. It's certainly one of those shonen anime cliches that'd translate seamlessly to wrestling. ...makes me wanna rewatch Ultimate Muscle, but I feel it shouldn't be done sober.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:25
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Ministry of darkness was fun uintil the mcmahons decided like they always do with anything popular that what the fans really want is a lot of fuckin mcmahons on tv
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Mar 21, 2022 17:52
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The Corporate Ministry is still one of the worst names for a faction in the history of the industry Also one of the dumbest ideas
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Mar 21, 2022 18:01
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Supreme Allah posted:Ministry of darkness was fun uintil the mcmahons decided like they always do with anything popular that what the fans really want is a lot of fuckin mcmahons on tv My favorite part of the Vince reveal is J.R. gives such a tired "Ah, sunovabitch," that the only the only plausible read is exasperation rather than shock.
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Mar 21, 2022 18:58
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All these wrestling clips have played hell with my YT algorithm but it lead to me seeing this great clip that seemed to perfectly sum up WCW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uBATjbsWTc
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Mar 21, 2022 19:21
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Vince Russo was once involved in a Christian wrestling fed called Ring of Glory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X5FDqHBN14
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Mar 21, 2022 20:04
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She seems to hesitate with her words after saying WW. Whats up with that? Also the crowd are like 
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Mar 21, 2022 20:07
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For some reason in that clip they silently bleeped out the F. No idea why.
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Mar 21, 2022 20:12
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Watched this match that was posted earlier in the thread. This is one of the better matches I've seen though the thing that strikes me is the commentators won't shut about about Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Who cares, these women blow them both away! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgt1ayddrLI
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Mar 21, 2022 20:15
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PeterCat posted:Watched this match that was posted earlier in the thread. This is one of the better matches I've seen though the thing that strikes me is the commentators won't shut about about Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Who cares, these women blow them both away! That's how WWF/WWE has done commentary since the 90s. They barely talk about the match currently going on and just try to hype up the main event. It's annoying as gently caress and super disrespectful and it's yet another reason I stopped watching their trash product.
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Mar 21, 2022 20:21
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