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LupusAter posted:Yeah, advocating for people not to try to play the game isn't a good look. Only thing that gives me pause is the doubling down, feels a little too attention-grabbing, but it could be an attempt at posting through it. specifically flagging this vote and lurking while also saying in a previous post that we ought to be suspicious of lurkers.
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Jun 30, 2022 12:43
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Green Wing posted:specifically flagging this vote and lurking while also saying in a previous post that we ought to be suspicious of lurkers. To clarify: I think regardless of the flip, this post gives me pause (like I feel like at the 5-6 votes mark, even scum would start throwing their teammates under the bus), and I'm saying it's one to look at tomorrow (because I might be dead by then, so I'm making note of my flag now)
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Jun 30, 2022 12:45
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What exactly do you mean by "too attention-grabbing", Lupus?
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Jun 30, 2022 12:46
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Also MSRR is really close to being hammered now but there are a few people who haven't gotten to post that much just yet. Part of that is due to timezones, but I would like to hear a bit more from you guys before any potential hammer drops.
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Jun 30, 2022 12:50
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Green Wing posted:Eh, in my post where I voted I listed two other people in suspicious of, and then set out how I'm not sure about HCT. Like, I've been posting a lot, but that's just...sort of what I'm like. (my instinct is to point at this post and say 'hm this is possibly scum trying to distance themselves, maybe MSRR is a townie' but I think this is a post it's impossible to analyse before the flip. That's probably just an "oi, how dare you vote for me" instinct) That's Mafia for you. It could be like you said, or you could be trying to trick some of the less experienced players into ganging up on someone, or you're just trying to move the game along, because as unfair as it is, someone has to be the first on the chopping board.. MSRR could make rookie mistakes, or they could be scum panicking on the first vote. We won't know until it's too late.
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Jun 30, 2022 12:58
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NeverHelm posted:What exactly do you mean by "too attention-grabbing", Lupus? The way they're arguing, mostly. It's a bit gimmick-y and sticks out. Feels like scum would try to keep a lower profile, but as I said, might've been posting through it. Also, I am sorry for missing most of the discussion but timezones and work are things, sadly. Only had time to check the thread on my lunch break.
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Jun 30, 2022 13:08
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Votecount for Day 1  My Second Re-Reg (6): Green Wing, NeverHelm, Caffeinated Jerkoff, Jadecore, AFancyQuestionMark, LupusAter NeverHelm (1): My Second Re-Reg Green Wing (1): Cloacamazing! Jadecore (0): Green Wing, Not Voting (5): Bucnasti, cuntman.net, Hyper Crab Tank, PlasticAutomaton, wologarWith 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 30th, 2022 at 5 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 8 hours, 31 minutes.
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Jun 30, 2022 13:28
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I know I agreed that Re-Reg's posting was anti-town (although they got better), but I think the pile-up on votes is bandwagony. There's bound to be scum in the last few votes, either jumping at the chance to execute town or just leaving a teammate to the wolves. I'll vote if necessary near deadline, but we still have some hours left.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:09
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Yeah I'm not nearly sold enough on my own read that I want to hammer Re-Reg now. I want to hear some thoughts from the people who suddenly decided to pile on the votes. Maybe it's just because the day is ending in a couple hours, but I still think the justifications have been kinda slim. Also, nobody is stepping up to defend Re-Reg either, so either the scum have already decided to bus him or he's not scum. Also what happened to Plastic, who said he was going to write a post and then didn't?
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Jun 30, 2022 14:19
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I do find it suspicious that the only certified veteran player didn't really step in to offer their reasoning on any of the vote targets. If it keeps on going like this, they might even be eliminated via the anti-lurking rules.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:39
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I want to draw attention to an important piece of information from the OP as a few of you may get lurker warnings and we don't want anyone to be like "Whaaaaa??" See below:Shellception posted:Please, do not lurk. The game does need posters to play it and contribute, otherwise nobody can read you out and it becomes a slow, dragging affair. The lurker threshold will be 10 posts per game day, about 48h in real life time, with the requisite being halved for hammers that happen at 12h to deadline or earlier, and eliminated if 24h to deadline or earlier. First time, you will be told to please not miss posting requierements; second time, you will be eliminated from the game. If you want to see your own post counts you can view it here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/misc.php?action=whoposted&threadid=4004626 This isn't shared to encourage anyone to check up on their peers, we stay on top of it, it's just if you want to see if you need to post a bit more or not. You all are doing great for D1 by the way, keep it up! 😊 Maerlyn fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 14:40
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Oof, thanks. Ten posts per game day is kind of a lot for me to be honest. Especially for day 1 where there's really not much to talk about. Going by the stats, almost all of us will get lurker warnings too.
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Jun 30, 2022 14:57
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Yeah, I think it's better if we don't finish this until closer to the deadline. Give more people time to express more thoughts. Just in case, I'm willing to ##unvote so one more person hopping in from time zone sleep absence doesn't hammer off discussion. I got my vote in earlier to lessen the risk of all the votes piling in at the end, but that's clearly not as much of a risk now. That being said, while there's obviously some bandwagoning, I'm not sure how much of it we could reliably call Scum Moves at this point. The fact of the matter is that Green Wing and NeverHelm are the ones primarily driving discussion and offering the largest and most detailed arguments so far, and they both landed on MSRR. We're day 1, so the only things we have to go off of are espoused ideas from people and attempted readings of them while nothing's really happened that could be called reliable data. As such, I imagine that the average townie can easily just... come in, read through the thread thus far and catch up, and go "well, that makes sense, I suppose" and express support for that course of action, which is "Don't know if they're scum or just trying to be a bit shitposter-y, but MSRR's reasoning is weird and could sabotage town if left unchecked". With that in mind, along with time zones and early stage-ness, I don't think I could start pointing at people who just haven't said that much as particularly suspicious. Yet, anyway. Are there scum in there? Totally; it'd be weirder if there weren't. But I think I could only feel good about my decisions on that front if I went back and reviewed things they said on Day 1 later after a longer stretch of reading and behavior. I'd feel incredibly arbitrary and dickish sniping at someone for a lack of info about them this early. So my focus has to land on, y'know, the people actually talking a good amount. As I've said, Green Wing and NeverHelm are the loudest, and it could be argued they're trying to become The Leader Folks early so as to guide town around by the nose, but... I genuinely believe Green Wing's reasoning of just being unemployed and very excited. Don't have as much specific stuff to believe about NeverHelm, but I don't see either's behavior as particularly suspicious yet. Just involved. The only other two players who've really stood out to me in posting style and involvement beyond reaction and clarification to the arguments of others are, funnily enough, the two with no avatar: Wologar and MSRR. I was a little  at Wolo initially for being the first one to toss out a name for a day 1 vote, but I since got convinced that despite my balking and still feeling a little bad about it, a day 1 flip is the best way to go. Other than that, no real issues and they seem to be considering stuff well. Which leaves MSRR, who is, well. The topic of all this discussion.I don't really have good reason to think they're scum. Just dramatic and expressing a proclivity for chaos. But that is targeted against people who at least feel more town aligned with somewhat shaky reasoning about eliminating people who seem... competent and involved. I can completely see where they're coming from, but I don't agree with it. And, frankly, by my own standards, I don't have a better choice. So... yeah. If it helps anyone, there's my reasoning. For lack of better options, I still lean towards MSRR. If discussion swings in alternative ways or hot new posting occurs that I could interpret as Meaningful Evidence, then maybe when I slot my vote back in in a few hours it'll be for someone else. Or maybe two more people come in and say "nah, hammer time" and discussion ends anyway. poo poo could happen. ...And I just hit preview and saw multiple people spoke up while I was typing this. Oop. Nothing I really have to respond to in there, though, other than a reaffirmation in my mind that I can't really use 'lurking' as evidence of deviousness because then I'd have to use that as an argument about most of the players for now. :V
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Jun 30, 2022 15:06
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Day 1 reasoning in a game where the roles are totally unknown is very hard for me. I honestly have no idea what to do, but I agree with characterizing MSRR's actions as anti-town and that we need to lynch day 1, so I chose to vote. If better targets appear, I'll change my vote.
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Jun 30, 2022 15:13
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Yeah I'm not nearly sold enough on my own read that I want to hammer Re-Reg now. I want to hear some thoughts from the people who suddenly decided to pile on the votes. Maybe it's just because the day is ending in a couple hours, but I still think the justifications have been kinda slim. Also, nobody is stepping up to defend Re-Reg either, so either the scum have already decided to bus him or he's not scum. Also what happened to Plastic, who said he was going to write a post and then didn't? wologar posted:I know I agreed that Re-Reg's posting was anti-town (although they got better), but I think the pile-up on votes is bandwagony. There's bound to be scum in the last few votes, either jumping at the chance to execute town or just leaving a teammate to the wolves. The scum could also be simply not voting, and staying mostly quiet or just performing hesitancy - letting us twist ourselves in knots about things, both shielding them both from accusations of bussing (in the event of MSRR being scum) and piling on (if they aren't). There are enough quiet people for that to be feasible. I think, as I've said before, at this point. One specific thing I want to put out there in case the day ends suddenly is that there are a couple people who have posted *precisely* as much as they need to, to avoid the lurker warning, while not getting involved in the discussion all that much. That's Jadecore (OK WELL I HIT PREVIEW AND SHE POSTED with a lot of reasoning and input too so uhhhh never mind I guess!), cuntman (who has posted precisely 10 times, posing questions to MSRR but not voting, or even stating a personal position, just asking questions. Very strong belief that both should be kept an eye on. Specifically, I expressed some suspicion about cuntman in an earlier post. See this post: Green Wing posted:
Noting the precise post count, and the nature of those posts, that suspicion is getting stronger. I think bucnasti is the last 'true' lurker (and Plastic but looking at plastic's post history, he doesn't seem to usually get down to the posting grind until later in the day anyway. I think the only person who hasn't given any position or votes (however slight) at this point is Bucnasti. Which is a pity, but, like. I doubt it's scum behaviour because it's so far below the lurking threshold, and at this point shifting votes on to a lurker wouldn't gain a huge amount of information.
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Jun 30, 2022 15:23
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Jadecore posted:So my focus has to land on, y'know, the people actually talking a good amount. As I've said, Green Wing and NeverHelm are the loudest, and it could be argued they're trying to become The Leader Folks early so as to guide town around by the nose, but... I genuinely believe Green Wing's reasoning of just being unemployed and very excited. Don't have as much specific stuff to believe about NeverHelm, but I don't see either's behavior as particularly suspicious yet. Just involved. I'm taking the opportunity of not having a job to catch up on my posting 
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Jun 30, 2022 15:25
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wologar posted:I know I agreed that Re-Reg's posting was anti-town (although they got better), but I think the pile-up on votes is bandwagony. There's bound to be scum in the last few votes, either jumping at the chance to execute town or just leaving a teammate to the wolves. I disagree with this. I'd argue this is pretty much how the votes will drop every time- We held most of the structure of a simple trial. We started with accusations, each side made arguments, and each side made closing statements, dropping votes alongside their conclusions.
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Jun 30, 2022 15:39
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Sorry, I kinda fell asleep before I could post last night oops. I'm around till deadline so let me actually get those thoughts out.
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Jun 30, 2022 15:49
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Green Wing posted:I'm taking the opportunity of not having a job to catch up on my posting You take the silver linings where you can get them, I suppose! Caffeinated Jerkoff posted:I disagree with this. I'd argue this is pretty much how the votes will drop every time- We held most of the structure of a simple trial. We started with accusations, each side made arguments, and each side made closing statements, dropping votes alongside their conclusions. This is... pretty reasonable, actually. Should probably keep that in mind for looking at the structure of other days. Unless I get flipped overnight, but even then I'd still be reading the thread.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:01
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Caffeinated Jerkoff posted:I disagree with this. I'd argue this is pretty much how the votes will drop every time- We held most of the structure of a simple trial. We started with accusations, each side made arguments, and each side made closing statements, dropping votes alongside their conclusions. True enough, although the last few votes felt more like a jury nodding and going "ah yes, guilty enough, yes" rather than personal conclusions. I don't think it's damning at this point either way.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:06
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So to be honest, day 1 usually ends up as the apathy lunch, as with little direction, the first or second big case tends to get the most traction. Eliminating a lurker isn't a bad decision early, but if you have an active case that might help reveal alignments, it's usually a better idea to push one of those, as it'll reveal more. Green Wing's on my short list for town posters right now, as they're the most active one so far and seems pretty excited to dig into the game. (Keep up that energy, I really like it!)
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Jun 30, 2022 16:18
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I'm probably going to vote MSRR here simply because they seem to have spent more time complaining about whether or not people are actually new to the game rather than playing it. My Second Re-Reg posted:It's Day #1 - there is no information yet, outside of those trying to pipe up and lead the thread, thus making the act of trying to influence the decisions of others suspicious in and of itself. Also this. I'm gonna say that this is probably factually wrong. Town players tend to more naturally find things to dig into early and want to move discussion forward, while scum is more eager to keep the discussion stagnant and try to push for an apathy lunch that reveals nothing.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:21
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Cloacamazing! posted:Oof, thanks. Ten posts per game day is kind of a lot for me to be honest. Especially for day 1 where there's really not much to talk about. I'm sure we'll see more wologar posted:True enough, although the last few votes felt more like a jury nodding and going "ah yes, guilty enough, yes" rather than personal conclusions. I don't think it's damning at this point either way. It's certainly not enough to immediately condemn anyone in particular. This sort of thing is more interesting when analyzing retroactively.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:22
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Also apologies for being lurky, I'm always really bad on day 1 as NeverHelm can probably attest to, but I've been trying to actively take a back seat for now and let you all figure out what you're doing and you guys are doing really great so far. 
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Jun 30, 2022 16:23
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I'm going to wait a few hours to vote, and since I'm convinced that offing someone is better than not I will vote for MSRR unless someone else is leading the vote by then, even though I don't think MSRR is scum, the information from they're reveal will be useful.Hyper Crab Tank posted:Also, nobody is stepping up to defend Re-Reg either, so either the scum have already decided to bus him or he's not scum. This is my primary reason for not believing that MSRR is scum, I feel like somebody at some point would have at least made some attempt to deflect for him. Unless this is all a super double blind mindfuck... which it could be.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:29
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NeverHelm posted:I'm perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that MSRR is just a townie who is being a little paranoid about being led about. It's not a completely unreasonable stance to adopt compared to anything else, and it's not like Day 1 votes have the strongest basis anyway. It's just that the particular stance they adopt feels anti-discussion. Not everything that is said in the thread is deliberately intended to persuade you to vote one way or another. Sometimes, it's just a matter of giving voice to your thoughts. A knee-jerk reaction to in-depth posting as crypto-veterans "controlling the conversation" doesn't really make sense to me, and it discourages other people from giving thorough statements (which is something I would appreciate, personally) and giving town more to work with. This could also be considered a way to control the conversation and one that would favor those with the most information, in other words the scum team. In other words, this stance is at best unintentionally anti-town and at worst a scum tactic. This is why I feel that MSRR is the strongest voting option for me at the moment. The fact that he's focusing on me specifically doesn't help, obviously - but that's a secondary concern. This is a very good post.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:29
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wologar posted:I know I agreed that Re-Reg's posting was anti-town (although they got better), but I think the pile-up on votes is bandwagony. There's bound to be scum in the last few votes, either jumping at the chance to execute town or just leaving a teammate to the wolves. this is a really good way to discourage people from voting imo. the only reason i dont think this looks like scum behavior is because msrr is likely going to get voted out anyway, so if you were scum you'd be making yourself look suspicious for no benefit Green Wing posted:One specific thing I want to put out there in case the day ends suddenly is that there are a couple people who have posted *precisely* as much as they need to, to avoid the lurker warning, while not getting involved in the discussion all that much. That's Jadecore (OK WELL I HIT PREVIEW AND SHE POSTED with a lot of reasoning and input too so uhhhh never mind I guess!), cuntman (who has posted precisely 10 times, posing questions to MSRR but not voting, or even stating a personal position, just asking questions. Very strong belief that both should be kept an eye on. i dont think this is good reasoning. its not that close to the deadline and a lot of people had exactly 10 posts at some point in time. i was asking questions because i wanted more reasons to vote one way or another. at this point my position is that i dont think theres anything particularly pointing to msrr as scum, but their stance against voting out someone one day 1 and going chaos voting is anti town. since we should vote someone on day 1 anyway, it might as well be them also i should probably respond to this now: Green Wing posted:Initially supported a no-vote, then switched to supporting a vote and voting for those who supported a no-vote (Green Wing and Jadecore). (minor inconsistency, but can also be explained because it's D1 and, like, people are allowed to change their minds) i dont see why suggesting voting for plastic automaton is suspicious either. lots of people made arbitrary suggestions for who to vote for including someone who suggested literally the exact same thing for the exact same reason
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Jun 30, 2022 16:32
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PlasticAutomaton posted:Also apologies for being lurky, I'm always really bad on day 1 as NeverHelm can probably attest to, but I've been trying to actively take a back seat for now and let you all figure out what you're doing and you guys are doing really great so far.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:32
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Green Wing posted:The scum could also be simply not voting, and staying mostly quiet or just performing hesitancy - letting us twist ourselves in knots about things, both shielding them both from accusations of bussing (in the event of MSRR being scum) and piling on (if they aren't). There are enough quiet people for that to be feasible. I think, as I've said before, at this point. I think you might be going a little too far with some of these points. Especially that part about precise postcounts. Remember that people are still finding their footing here. I believe you might be twisting yourself in a knot.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:54
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Bucnasti posted:
Eh, I could see scum being exceedingly cautious and deciding to leave each other alone as not to draw suspicion. Being that we have basically no information, appearing to trust someone a bit too fast could look bad.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:55
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NeverHelm posted:I think you might be going a little too far with some of these points. Especially that part about precise postcounts. Remember that people are still finding their footing here. I believe you might be twisting yourself in a knot. Eh, maybe. I'm keen to get my thoughts out before nightfall in case I die at night.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:55
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NeverHelm posted:I'm sure we'll see more I know, just a bit iffy on the two strikes role since I pretty much need to fart out some posts in order to not get my first strike already, and I'm nowhere near the worst off.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:21
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Green Wing posted:Eh, maybe. I'm keen to get my thoughts out before nightfall in case I die at night. We can still talk at night, right? First night is usually when people start yelling at each other over how the first vote turned out.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:22
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Shellception posted:Night phase: Thread will be closed. During night phase, mafia players will be allowed to attempt to kill a player, removing them from the game. Night actions that are part of roles will also take place during that time.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:24
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Shellception posted:Night phase: Thread will be closed. During night phase, mafia players will be allowed to attempt to kill a player, removing them from the game. Night actions that are part of roles will also take place during that time.[/list] Cloacamazing! posted:We can still talk at night, right? First night is usually when people start yelling at each other over how the first vote turned out. No, can't talk at night unless scum.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:25
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Sorry, I meant to add more to my post there before posting: D2 will be our first chance to react to/discuss the results of the D1 vote and the mafia's N1 murder. Hopefully some of us have cool town roles that will help us gain information! The possibility space for roles feels huge, so I think it's going to be difficult to figure out what new information is real and what's mafia trying to throw us all off.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:29
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How long does night usually last? And what types of roles are there? I'm only familiar with the ones from the One Night Warewolf game.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:36
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I imagine there won't be any crazy roles as this is babby's first forums mafia. Expect a lot of ice-cream.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:38
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All I'm gonna contribute is two things: #1: Now that the scum realized they dogpiled me too hard, they're trying to back off. Smooth work, Scooby gang. #2: PlasticAutomaton posted:I'm probably going to vote MSRR here simply because they seem to have spent more time complaining about whether or not people are actually new to the game rather than playing it That's incorrect but if it wasn't it would still be valid. I'll be happy to talk about this after the game, though.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:39
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| # ? Sep 29, 2023 05:17 |
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Bucnasti posted:How long does night usually last? There's this wiki: https://www.samafia.net/wiki/Main_Page
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Jun 30, 2022 17:39
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