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I gotta admit, I just tune out and skim over these posts about phone problems. It's sound like the worst poo poo ever. If you got phone problems, I feel bad for you.
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Nov 25, 2024 23:46
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Wibla posted:Why are you still using fax in 2024? for my company it's all about healthcare/being part of the medical industry
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Nov 26, 2024 00:15
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Jen heir rick posted:If you got phone problems, I feel bad for you. I got 99 problems but a phone aint one
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Nov 26, 2024 00:49
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my cat is norris posted:for my company it's all about healthcare/being part of the medical industry That really just raises further questions
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Nov 26, 2024 08:02
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on the chance that this is not common knowledge: the word "fax" is baked into reams of law and policy around medicine in the US, and is considered "secure" in a way that email never will be and cannot be for countless reasons that people in this very thread can surely elucidate on. given that the sole alternative for transmitting patient data is "some miserable online web app that you never have a working login for," the practical reality is that medical information in the US has been transmitted between practitioners by fax for 40 years and this is not ending within our lifetimes.
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Nov 26, 2024 08:19
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cathoderaydude posted:on the chance that this is not common knowledge: the word "fax" is baked into reams of law and policy around medicine in the US, and is considered "secure" in a way that email never will be and cannot be for countless reasons that people in this very thread can surely elucidate on. It’s basically the same for legal and government as well.
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Nov 26, 2024 12:36
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cathoderaydude posted:i spent ten years in the voip mines and virtually nobody "technical" that i spoke to had the faintest idea what was going on behind the scenes. maybe three people a year, out of hundreds, even knew what an INVITE was let alone packet fragmentation. it's bleak out there
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Nov 26, 2024 13:12
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SixFigureSandwich posted:That really just raises further questions it's well-explained above but yeah, faxing is considered to be compliant with HIPAA privacy regulations, thereby ensuring its continued use by the healthcare industry for the next however long our products also support data transfers using other means, of course, but there's always going to be a couple of providers among our clients who require faxing (primarily e-faxing with standard faxing as an option) if there's some kind of technology out there which should have been deprecated but is still in use by a niche population, it's probably because of healthcare. the industry is too large and varied to move at anything faster than a glacial pace.
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Nov 26, 2024 13:16
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The stupid thing is you can just fax by email now. We had a system where you could attach an image and email to 123456789@fax.fax and it would go to their system in their email as a "fax".
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Nov 26, 2024 14:28
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Should I ever get access to a time machine one of the first things I will do is throwing down the idiot who invented the fax down a steep cliff. The other thing is telling the people in the far far past to domesticate racoons, so we have a third cute pet next to our dogs and cats.
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Nov 26, 2024 15:10
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GreenNight posted:The stupid thing is you can just fax by email now. We had a system where you could attach an image and email to 123456789@fax.fax and it would go to their system in their email as a "fax". this is very common, and all the operators I've worked with are incompetent and don't know how their black box system works so if a fax doesn't go through, there's nothing you can do about it and not even much chance of knowing it failed don't get me wrong, you can absolutely live a charmed life about this stuff, many people never have a problem with email to fax, but if you find that there's a specific number you can't send to the only real fix is to get a physical machine and a copper phone line. plus this requires the source document to be, you know, in the computer. so now you have doctors trying to operate scanners. run for the hills Happy Litterbox posted:Should I ever get access to a time machine one of the first things I will do is throwing down the idiot who invented the fax down a steep cliff. The other thing is telling the people in the far far past to domesticate racoons, so we have a third cute pet next to our dogs and cats. I'll be perfectly honest I don't think fax deserves the hate it gets. It works fine when you aren't using a compromised phone line and it's one of the most straightforward and accessible technologies given what it accomplishes. Scanning a document, finding the file, dropping it into an email, then receiving, saving and possibly printing it is a miserable workflow. When you fax something it's like you're handing the page to someone, they just have it, no gd filename prompts. I'm a nerd so I want the file, but there's so much more that can go wrong with email. You can send someone a file and have it be in limbo indefinitely, stuck in some mail server queue or spam filtered. With fax you can call someone and say "hey, do you see it coming through right now" and get a positive response. And despite the riffs, the success rate is really, really high for low page counts. Agreed on the raccoons though. We hosed that one up, as a species cathoderaydude fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 26, 2024 |
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Nov 26, 2024 17:55
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A user came up and asked for help. I asked what the problem was. They said they had a wasp in their jacket. I asked if they had removed their jacket. He said no, and that he was afraid of wasps. I directed him to remove his jacket, the wasp fell out, and I stomped it. The Live-Aid song is playing down the hall. I am at peace.
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Nov 26, 2024 18:10
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I think fax has survived because it's such a physical medium, a mechanics shop in a rural area is going to have less downtime from a fax than a PC connected to a laser printer and an email account that they have to remember the password for/not lock themselves out of when they lose the phone their MFA token is on etc. There doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent of "put paper in machine, dial 10-digit code, press go" and nobody is going to put the effort into some sort of ENUM-based replacement that involves direct IP connectivity between machines based on DNS records and negotiation of codecs because ENUM is dead since why would people responsible for selling you SIP minutes throw their weight behind something that bypassed them, and hopefully nobody is naïve enough to put a printer of all things directly on the internet.
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Nov 26, 2024 18:11
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cathoderaydude posted:Agreed on the raccoons though. We hosed that one up, as a species Thanks Ants posted:hopefully nobody is naïve enough to put a printer of all things directly on the internet.
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Nov 26, 2024 18:23
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GreenNight posted:The stupid thing is you can just fax by email now. We had a system where you could attach an image and email to 123456789@fax.fax and it would go to their system in their email as a "fax". There are a couple that do have this ability, but it's an idiotically hard to find feature. Almost as rare as native SIP/T.38 support. cathoderaydude posted:With fax you can call someone and say "hey, do you see it coming through right now" and get a positive response. Basically the actual fax communication only happens between the fax machine itself and the ATA. If you send a fax the call connects to the ATA, the fax sends to the ATA, the ATA then submits it over HTTPS to the service, and the service then sends it like an efax. If it fails you get a fax back a few minutes later saying what went wrong. Receiving is the opposite, the caller connects to the service, transmits their entire message, only then does it get sent to the ATA and the receiving machine rings. We stopped using these for that reason, our clients really did not like that aspect even though they seemed a lot more reliable from the user standpoint (as all retries happened upstream). Thanks Ants posted:There doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent of "put paper in machine, dial 10-digit code, press go" and nobody is going to put the effort into some sort of ENUM-based replacement that involves direct IP connectivity between machines based on DNS records and negotiation of codecs because ENUM is dead since why would people responsible for selling you SIP minutes throw their weight behind something that bypassed them quote:and hopefully nobody is naïve enough to put a printer of all things directly on the internet. Winter break 2004-2005 I heard from people who had stayed on campus that it was down so I printed a couple of documents to my LaserJet 4 across the state over the open internet. In hindsight I have no idea how I never ended up with someone discovering it and wasting my paper/toner, especially considering it was accessible to anyone on the campus network the whole time.
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Nov 26, 2024 19:36
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wolrah posted:This is no longer universally true, because of the challenges associated with fax over SIP/T.38 a lot of VoIP providers have started using solutions like these: https://www.faxata.com/ Yeah when I say "fax" i mean "physical fax machine made by e.g. brother or sharp that performs no other function, plugged into a pair of twisted copper lines coming out of a class 5 switch at the POP" and as soon as you change any of those things, guarantees start to go out the window. MFP instead of a dedicated fax? Congratulations, that's 10% off your success rate and much worse error messages to boot! PSTN line is actually a carrier-grade SIP-backed ATA built into a DSLAM? 5% discount! PSTN line is actually a Comcast modem with an ATA? 10% discount! PSTN line is a commodity ATA? 10% discount! PSTN line is an HTTPS eFax ATA? 25% discount and enjoy your coupon for a free trip to hell, buster! like honestly my experience has been that if you configure an ATA for strict g.711 and turn off ALL the helper features, you'll get a 95-98% success rate *across the board.* the problem at THAT point becomes, who's going to keep that ATA working? Doing this right is not common knowledge, there's lots of misleading info out there and a lot of people don't even know you NEED to do any customization, so even if you deploy an ATA that works perfectly today, a year from now when someone dumps coffee on it, the person replacing it isn't going to apply the same settings. Oh! Oh! And even after that, you have midstream carriers and media gateway providers who try to Help by converting your fax to loving t.38 midstream, resulting in the usual, predictable decoding errors at the far end. i swear to god the entire story of voip is screaming at hardware vendors to stop trying to help and just let you do your loving job. edit: oh lmao right right i forgot the final boss of this horseshit, "fax machine that ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to acknowlede the calling party disconnect signal your ATA is sending and the customer won't replace it" sorry sorry let me just get in this barrel and roll myself into the puget sound
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Nov 26, 2024 20:14
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faxing having some wonderful benefits doesn't mean it's not still a poorly understood technology, though. had to support fax machines once in my career and I hope to never, ever, ever have to do it again. let the specialists have that one, if they exist. re: scanning documents, you think doctors have to do that poo poo? Paper to electronic medical record conversion is a full time job -- a friend of mine does it -- and it's often such an overloaded role that scanning quality can be...mixed. some places clearly do not care. I'm talking low dpi, grayscale that isn't dark enough to be clearly OCR'd, pages flipped sideways and upside down. poo poo like that. our software for processing these docs is good enough to address most of those problems; sometimes you just have to contact the provider and request new scans, though. it's not a job done with great care on account of high volume and high demand. I can't blame them for not having time for more QC beyond "make sure the medical record is in the right page order," but having the human element in these scenarios will always create difficulties. if feeding the MR into a fax machine and pressing "go" saves time and therefore money, of course it's going to be the best choice for a role largely filled by non-technical employees. also, some providers and insurers do NOT like e-faxing on account of how vulnerable email can be to breaches. bet you could make some bank creating a software which can better diagnose faxing issues. sorry for rambling. It's equal parts fascinating and maddening.
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Nov 26, 2024 21:09
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how many times has [EXTERNAL] come up in this thread. anyone wanna bitch about [EXTERNAL]. this is universal right, isn't every single company ruining their exchange server in this specific way by now
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Nov 27, 2024 01:02
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I for one am in favor of [EXTERNAL] and am the one that implemented it at my last company
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Nov 27, 2024 01:11
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cathoderaydude posted:how many times has [EXTERNAL] come up in this thread. anyone wanna bitch about [EXTERNAL]. this is universal right, isn't every single company ruining their exchange server in this specific way by now We had multiple sales reps fall for the "this is the CEO I need you to send me $1000 in iTunes gift cards immediately, this is a secret" scams, and the founder of the company once opened an attachment and cryptolocked the entire company, so now we have EXTERNAL.
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Nov 27, 2024 01:14
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We’ve had requests to turn off the “this is the first time this external user has emailed you” tooltips because they didn’t like the aesthetics of it. lol, no. Never going to happen.
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Nov 27, 2024 01:17
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okay but do you have a reason to think that it, you know, works? i have not seen evidence that executives or sales droids have functioning reading comprehension, i assume (and have seen evidence that) they tune out the [EXTERNAL] immediately, it just becomes background noise. it's not the aesthetics that suck (although, rendering your summary column useless is pretty miserable), it's the fact that the only people capable of connecting "external = maybe a phish" are people who don't fall for phishes in the first place, so it just makes it less useful for the savvy while doing nothing to help the unsavvy. every subject line with an outside client eventually becoming "Re: [external] Re: [external] Re: [external]" ad infinitum
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Nov 27, 2024 01:20
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though tbh if you have actually seen a statistical improvement in phishes from this i'd be willing to eat crow. i just know everyone at the company i worked at completely ignored it, like if you pointed it out they'd go "huh?" as if they'd never noticed it before on any email they'd received.
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Nov 27, 2024 01:23
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In Google Workspace world it’s a yellow banner at the top of the message to let you know you’ve never heard from this person before. I think a lot of this stuff is just box ticking to pad out a feature list or to give a reasons to fire people who you wanted gone anyway. Someone who goes out to buy thousands in value of iTunes vouchers isn’t going to not do that simply because they were told the email was external. I’m still not convinced by phishing training as anything other that something to make insurers happy, or a tool for HR to use to get some negative events into someone’s file by targeting them with phishing tests that could conceivably result in a click-through.
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Nov 27, 2024 01:33
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I really don't like simulated phishes at work. It's annoying enough without the powers that be trying to make me trip.
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Nov 27, 2024 01:37
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cathoderaydude posted:okay but do you have a reason to think that it, you know, works? i have not seen evidence that executives or sales droids have functioning reading comprehension, i assume (and have seen evidence that) they tune out the [EXTERNAL] immediately, it just becomes background noise. Yeah I know personally I tune out the external thing. The problem is, I churn through dozens of emails a day, after a while you just get numb to it. I do a lot of work with vendors so more often than not I'm tuning out that big yellow banner. But I also don't have spending power or work with PII, so...
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Nov 27, 2024 01:40
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The Fool posted:I for one am in favor of [EXTERNAL] and am the one that implemented it at my last company S A M E and it saves people from doing the stupid stuff
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Nov 27, 2024 01:55
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Thanks Ants posted:I’m still not convinced by phishing training as anything other that something to make insurers happy, or a tool for HR to use to get some negative events into someone’s file by targeting them with phishing tests that could conceivably result in a click-through.  Amazon gift card for the "most improved user" or whatever to incentivise people to not suck.And then you need to do that poo poo regularly because of employee churn anyway. ETA: there's good reason for this TBH. There are better things to spend budget on for most companies. Asset tags, for example. Those would be nice.
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Nov 27, 2024 02:19
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We had a fax ticket today, the unit reported they hadn't been receiving faxes. The ticket went to the managed print services admin, who logged into the specific MFP and had to change some settings to get it to start printing faxes again. It started working its way through its queue. The first document in the queue was from December 2023.
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Nov 27, 2024 02:44
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BaseballPCHiker fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 2, 2025 |
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Nov 27, 2024 03:01
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big flashing  EXTERNAL gif in the most geocities like way on top of every email
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Nov 27, 2024 15:13
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Thanks Ants posted:I’m still not convinced by phishing training as anything other that something to make insurers happy, or a tool for HR to use to get some negative events into someone’s file by targeting them with phishing tests that could conceivably result in a click-through. I'm struck by the disparity in how workplaces treat misuse of email compared to misuse of other company tools. If a forklift driver ignores safety warnings and causes an accident they're probably hosed but if an executive ignores basic email safety and cryptolockers the company the response is always to shrug and act as if it couldn't be avoided. Email is just another tool but no one seems to care if it's misused.
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Nov 27, 2024 18:53
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Exodor posted:I'm struck by the disparity in how workplaces treat misuse of email compared to misuse of other company tools. If a forklift driver ignores safety warnings and causes an accident they're probably hosed but if an executive ignores basic email safety and cryptolockers the company the response is always to shrug and act as if it couldn't be avoided. Email is just another tool but no one seems to care if it's misused. Tbh I would say this really comes down to the disparity between how office workers are treated versus "labor." No matter what your specific role is, it is simply harder to get fired or disciplined if you work in an office, the goalposts are in a totally different position versus a warehouse or customer service job.
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Nov 27, 2024 18:57
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16:30 - a ticket came in From: John Smith Subject: SMITH "I was working in exel [sic] and there was a message about a backup and now I'm missing some information from the file I was working on" 16:30 - call "Hi it's John Smith" Summary, the file he needed wasn't in the version history, nor did he know what the message (actually a sidebar) said. Apparently there was nothing to decide so he just clicked okay. I can't PROVE it was the Excel "Hey you have multiple versions, which one do you wanna keep?" one... But I'm glad I remembered that after he mentioned letting his boss know, otherwise I don't think I could've resisted. 
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Nov 27, 2024 19:19
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Exodor posted:I'm struck by the disparity in how workplaces treat misuse of email compared to misuse of other company tools. If a forklift driver ignores safety warnings and causes an accident they're probably hosed but if an executive ignores basic email safety and cryptolockers the company the response is always to shrug and act as if it couldn't be avoided. Email is just another tool but no one seems to care if it's misused. Comes down to what you want to punish and why. loving up with a forklift can kill someone, and it's a rare situation that getting phished causes a loss of life. Also lol executives don't see consequences unless they gently caress with someone else's money.
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Nov 29, 2024 05:39
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Yeah but getting phished will impact shareholder value more so, I mean, who can say
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Nov 29, 2024 08:48
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Kill all shareholders. Preferably with a forklift. Problem solved.cathoderaydude posted:this is very common, and all the operators I've worked with are incompetent and don't know how their black box system works so if a fax doesn't go through, there's nothing you can do about it and not even much chance of knowing it failed I've also learned that in Germany Fax is now regarded as unsafe as email. So: 
Happy Litterbox fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Nov 29, 2024 |
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Nov 29, 2024 10:02
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you need a license and training to operate a forklift what i'm saying is require every computer toucher to get the International Computer Driving Licence
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Nov 29, 2024 10:27
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I already got my European Computer Driving Licence, do I need to recertify? 
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Nov 29, 2024 12:24
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Arquinsiel posted:I already got my European Computer Driving Licence, do I need to recertify? If you have done it over a syllabus older than v5 it's expired already, otherwise five years.
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Nov 29, 2024 22:52
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