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Actually I take that back, Paranoid being so forcefully certain on Keats and Meen strikes me as too risky for scum I don't agree with their arguments though!
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Apr 18, 2023 16:48
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If Meen is scum I'll eat my hat and pants and shorts in an ungodly burrito.
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Apr 18, 2023 16:49
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wins32767 posted:This is kinda scummy. Where do you think the other kill came from? Right now I think scum Meen duplicated the scum kill using the ability I saw.
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Apr 18, 2023 16:57
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There’s different kill flavor. Not determinative but I think it’s likely
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Apr 18, 2023 16:58
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On the subject of GW being scum (which is probably something for after Iggy flips, anyway): I don't think I've seen GW as scum, but I have seen her play extremely well as town. I believe she would attempt to have the same amount of engagement as scum, and I won't be so naive to assume she'd be bad at it.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:04
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I’m feeling p sick today but I am trying to follow along. The Meen Keats thing I feel like I have to reread all from scratch. Unless someone wants to simplify it for me!!
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Apr 18, 2023 17:05
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Paranoid Dude posted:Ladies and gentlemen of the class, I would posit that our only actionable move here is to vote KEATS and NOT Meen. How would my flip both "have Meet dead to rights" but at the same time I'm misunderstanding my role so it won't drat Meen....? Sandwolf posted:I’m feeling p sick today but I am trying to follow along. The Meen Keats thing I feel like I have to reread all from scratch. Unless someone wants to simplify it for me!! The needlessly long version was posted as "receipts" essentially. Short version is that my role is immune from redirects due to ~logic~, meaning my result on Iggy should be infallible. Iggy would therefore be lying about his role.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:08
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Yeah that's a lurking concern, a vet powering through with high-level play, but that will need input from other vets that are familiar with the more meta aspects of playing these games on the forums
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Apr 18, 2023 17:09
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Johnny Keats posted:On the subject of GW being scum (which is probably something for after Iggy flips, anyway): Previous post was in reference to this, phone posting at lunch is slow posting
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Apr 18, 2023 17:10
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t a s t e posted:There’s different kill flavor. Not determinative but I think it’s likely That's a good point, but weird because Binus's kill flavor was the same flavor as Infinitum's execution flavor. Maybe that is just what happens to scum/people the "machine" thinks are scum.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:16
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I love how in tune Punkreas’ and my thoughts have been this whole game, with both of us being the newbies Paranoid’s arguments have turned me somewhat away from them as scum, but not changed my mind on the Keats/Meen issue. I think one of them is scum and that Meen is the more likely of the two so my vote stays there.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:21
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Johnny Keats posted:How would my flip both "have Meet dead to rights" but at the same time I'm misunderstanding my role so it won't drat Meen....? Logically speaking, it wouldn't necessarily. But, that's assuming that you have been town-posting this whole time, which I am not making the assumption of. For a couple of reasons, really. See, for instance, this post: Johnny Keats posted:I officially believe the two deaths were performed by the same member of scum (one or more of which was redirected) after being doubled by Iggy. Your role gives no way to possibly have the information to make this assertion if your role is EXACTLY what you posted. Your claim is that "i will also receive info about that player's power. this information will not universally apply to the action which was boosted (for example if it was the scum kill), it will only tell me the innate role." But you haven't given any information that would support the idea that Meen was ever at any point communicating with scum IF THIS IS TRUE. Meen has claimed doctor, which is suspicious, sure, but this is an onslaught of sus. Further, the claim that Meen is automatically scum could not possibly be true BECAUSE: Johnny Keats posted:Activating first means I activate before any redirection roles have the opportunity to change targeting. This means that you would have NO EVIDENCE of who Meen was targeting or what they were doing IF you were telling the truth. There could just as well be a serial killer or a town-aligned hunter. Your automatic tunneling of Meen is very loose and unsubstantiated. Your role lets you role cop. You don't get info about role, according to the info that YOU POSTED, just what the role does. Killing Meen from the idea that he was doubling scum night kills just doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the night action just kill the same person twice? It doesn't add up. GET EM BOYS!!
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Apr 18, 2023 17:25
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I am much, much better at scum than town fwiw. Love being scum. The thing about the meen discussion is that keats misunderstanding their role (and I do think that is true) only matters if a townie says that they redirected away from meen. Why not scum? Well, why would scum redirect from meen and not just kill meen? If they're worried about tracking, presumably this would still create a trace. So in the absence of sny such townie redirection being revealed, which it hasn't, I'm content to continue with the meen despite that I think keats power is subject to redirectiopinball banym
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Apr 18, 2023 17:26
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Votecount for Day 2  Ignatius M. Meen (6): Johnny Keats, Green Wing, Toalpaz, Johnny Keats (1): t a s t e, Toalpaz (1): Rhymes With Clue Not Voting (5): Idle Amalgam, Ignatius M. Meen, JosefStalinator, Sandwolf, wins32767With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is April 19th, 2023 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 9 hours.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:26
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I'm now going to disappear again as I spent most of today in a&e and am now going to sleep for as long as I possibly can.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:29
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I get that there’s no good reason for Keats to assume that Meen doubled a kill but I don’t think Keats claimed that that part was a known fact, just his belief. What he does know, assuming he’s been telling the truth, is that 1) Meen has a doubling ability and 2) Meen is lying about being a doctor and got Inf eliminated by doing so. The main reason I believe Keats is that nothing in his account so far as been self-inconsistent. If he’s lying, then either he was provided with or invented a fake role from scratch at the start of the game or he’s been really good at not slipping up while inventing more info about it.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:33
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Even if everything that has been asserted about Meen is true, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that he's not a townie, is the tl;dr of my point for the sickies in the crowd.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:34
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Green Wing posted:I am much, much better at scum than town fwiw. Love being scum. Seems like it would be low risk high reward to take you out then
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Apr 18, 2023 17:34
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Paranoid Dude posted:Logically speaking, it wouldn't necessarily. But, that's assuming that you have been town-posting this whole time, which I am not making the assumption of. For a couple of reasons, really. See, for instance, this post: I don't want to toe the line even more by paraphrasing another entire role PM, but I basically got Meen's entire role PM blurb about his role ability. It has the power to force another player to target a 2nd player with their ability and their ability will happen twice that night on different targets. As scum with that power it would obviously be tempting to simulate a serial killer by using it on scum and coordinating it, while hiding the true role's existence of course.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:44
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So Opop was a self aligned pseudo-rolecop per the role PM. Keats suddenly has a new part of his role that allows him to rolecop and claims he nailed Meen who counterclaimed the flipped Jailor yesterday. Do I have this all right? Based on claims alone Keats looks worse for string claiming and having a similar role as a third party. ##vote Keats
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Apr 18, 2023 17:44
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I see we’re already -1 right now so I’m going to say - hey Keats, I’ve been arguing your corner all day, if you truly have the ability you claim please lay it on me tonight 
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Apr 18, 2023 17:45
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Meen’s claim is a bit sus as well but I find this persuasive [quote="wins32767" post="531269734"] So Opop was a self aligned pseudo-rolecop per the role PM. Keats suddenly has a new part of his role that allows him to rolecop and claims he nailed Meen who counterclaimed the flipped Jailor yesterday. Do I have this all right? Based on claims alone Keats looks worse for string claiming and having a similar role as a third party. ##vote Keats [/quote
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Apr 18, 2023 17:47
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wins32767 posted:So Opop was a self aligned pseudo-rolecop per the role PM. Keats suddenly has a new part of his role that allows him to rolecop and claims he nailed Meen who counterclaimed the flipped Jailor yesterday. Do I have this all right? I wouldn’t say Opop was a pseudo rolecop, more of a pseudo watcher?
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Apr 18, 2023 17:47
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Maugrim posted:I see we’re already -1 right now so I’m going to say - hey Keats, I’ve been arguing your corner all day, if you truly have the ability you claim please lay it on me tonight Will do.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:48
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Apr 18, 2023 17:49
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CapitalistPig posted:During the night the ball was destroyed and found in pieces in the machine. I read this as a rolecop rather than a watch.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:49
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Hm actually I don’t like that assessment
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Apr 18, 2023 17:50
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I suppose if there was more as to what an imprint was we could really be off to the races
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Apr 18, 2023 17:50
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For the record, I was imprinted last night.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:51
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In any case, where is Meen? One would think if he were town he'd be more invested in getting to the bottom of this. That is why I started to doubt myself earlier.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:54
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Life happens sometimes, I assume.
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Apr 18, 2023 17:58
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It's work hours in the US and early morning Aus, so I'd expect more posting from some in 3-5 hours
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Apr 18, 2023 18:01
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This mf got a job???? This mf sleep????? Not committed at all
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Apr 18, 2023 18:03
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In any case, town have a vested interest to talk this out a bit more. It would behoove those of us that want to come to the bottom of this to unvote Meen. Just one or two to avoid a hammer.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:15
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Paranoid Dude posted:In any case, town have a vested interest to talk this out a bit more. It would behoove those of us that want to come to the bottom of this to unvote Meen. Just one or two to avoid a hammer. This is a scummy post combined with not actually talking it out.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:38
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wins32767 posted:This is a scummy post combined with not actually talking it out. What do you think I have been doing the last two pages my guy
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Apr 18, 2023 18:43
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If I didn't want to talk it out, I would have just killed Meen and then been fake-shocked that he's town and waffled on about "oh, well, we don't ACTUALLY know how Keats' power works!"
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Apr 18, 2023 18:44
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Is it possible this is all misunderstanding resulting from Keats misreading his action not going first above all? And then there’s just a redirect in there?
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Apr 18, 2023 18:46
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t a s t e posted:This mf got a job???? This mf sleep????? Not committed at all Just slept 9 hours to work off my sickness and woke to many posts! Will comb through them in a bit
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Apr 18, 2023 18:46
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Sandwolf posted:Is it possible this is all misunderstanding resulting from Keats misreading his action not going first above all? And then there’s just a redirect in there? I went back to his more-or-less transcription of his ability and I interpret it the same way he did. And since I do writing and copy-editing for a living I trust my interpretation of the text as written. I’m open to the possibility of the text as written being misleading but I’m not going to make any calls based on assuming that.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:51
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