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Things that are going to be really obvious to any oldbies who don't have a vested interest in knowing less in the hindsight of my flip: 1. It makes sense in terms of game design for there to be a few overlapping protective roles in a game with a lot of redirectors so that one of them has half a chance to stop a kill. Especially if you're gonna have a second source of night kills around as is clearly the case considering last night's two kills. 2. CPig enjoys a good twospidermans.gif moment. Everybody should, and if I'd had the chance to think about it more than 4 minutes after counterclaiming I'd have maybe unvoted and prodded Infinitum about the chances of two docs in a redirection heavy game. 3. If I were scum I'd have had absolutely no reason to CC doctor at the last second because even without Keats' night bingo, this would have been pretty pushable anyway in light of that and the rest of the scum would have no trouble bussing the poo poo out of me for such a dumb move. It would absolutely not have been worth it to save Keats when I could have just had town cred off an early scum execution. 4. If I were scum and legit caught I'd have actively thrown in the towel already. I get stressed even as scum-adjacent to the point that I have very little nerve to resist my elimination in any sort of prolonged fashion; I don't expect people to believe it even with some very fine examples but I don't expect it to stop being true anytime soon. 5. funny, didn't toal see all of those? yet she still thinks it's as easy as dunk me and Keats, starting with me. WEIRD. almost like she doesn't know or care about how I play as town vs scum or 3P when there's a dangling 1-2 easy elimination day chain that can be credibly pushed as innocent, sensible town instead. If it must be me or Keats I'm down with Keats, but I would rather go for toal. ##vote toal t a s t e posted:This mf got a job???? This mf sleep????? Not committed at all In this case it was sleep, yeah. Sandwolf posted:Is it possible this is all misunderstanding resulting from Keats misreading his action not going first above all? And then there’s just a redirect in there? 100% possible. The way I read it is that Keats' target's action is boosted in the play order to go first and said action is also impervious to the effects of any other actions besides Keats', which still leaves Keats himself open to redirection causing somebody else to be boosted to go first. It probably wasn't written exactly that way, though, and Keats being Keats he just barrelled on assuming that his reading was the only logical one. Then this happens and it's predictably a giant mess.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:56
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String claiming is super scummy though.
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Apr 18, 2023 18:57
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wins32767 posted:String claiming is super scummy though. Who string claimed?
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Apr 18, 2023 19:06
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Keats did, but I kind of got the impression that’s just how he operates in every game.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:08
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Point 3 re: would scum really counter like that is the most compelling there tbh. Don't have the energy to fully consider it now but idk that being pointed out is enough to make me slightly uncomfortable about being at -1 ##unvote
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Apr 18, 2023 19:10
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Votecount for Day 2  Ignatius M. Meen (4): Johnny Keats, Green Wing, Toalpaz, Johnny Keats (3): t a s t e, Toalpaz (2): Rhymes With Clue, Ignatius M. Meen Not Voting (4): Green Wing, Idle Amalgam, JosefStalinator, SandwolfWith 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is April 19th, 2023 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 7 hours.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:12
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Maugrim posted:I went back to his more-or-less transcription of his ability and I interpret it the same way he did. And since I do writing and copy-editing for a living I trust my interpretation of the text as written. I’m open to the possibility of the text as written being misleading but I’m not going to make any calls based on assuming that. That's the thing though, is that Keats didn't post his role exactly as he received it (because that would be, yknow, against the rules). We have to go off of his interpretation when he opened with "I don't know how this works, help." I agree with Meen that Toal is heavily scummy, especially for mostly throwing Meen under the bus, gassing up Keats, and peacing out. I'm not sure there's much of a case I can build for Toal, especially since my main goal is to make sure that Meen doesn't get killed for a rules misunderstanding.
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Apr 18, 2023 19:18
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Just going back to this.Ignatius M. Meen posted:I targeted myself last night and I am the Out Lane Guard. Originally I was limited to protecting only another player and not twice in a row but that restriction was removed. What caused the restriction to be removed? How was this done in time for you to protect yourself N1?
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Apr 18, 2023 19:49
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Maugrim posted:Just going back to this. CPig changed his mind on how the role should work as far as I can tell. I got the surprise about 5 hours into D1.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:03
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:CPig changed his mind on how the role should work as far as I can tell. I got the surprise about 5 hours into D1. heh?
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Apr 18, 2023 20:05
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Hmm. So you’re claiming mod fiat and unfortunately cpig can’t c/d it for us because it would tell us if you’re lying about your role or not. Still i dunno why you’d have mentioned the restriction in the first place if it didn’t happen that way.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:27
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Sandwolf posted:heh?  more explicitly paraphrased CPig more or less said "last minute tune up to the role"feels pretty much like I described and I've been there with my own games
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Apr 18, 2023 20:30
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Maugrim posted:Hmm. So you’re claiming mod fiat and unfortunately cpig can’t c/d it for us because it would tell us if you’re lying about your role or not. I mention it because I don't know if the restriction being lifted will be noted in my flip or not, and because my flip will prove I don't have any good reasons to lie about this poo poo, it will leave one less avenue of confusion around for people to deal with afterwards.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:31
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Anybody with a safe role they are okay sharing want to claim so i can confirm my targeting? Also, everybody else try to redirect me from that person.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:34
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If we're to presume I was directed away from Iggy, itms likely Iggy's claimed self-target would have gone to the same player I got the role of. Iggy, per role PM does your recipient know they have been visited?
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Apr 18, 2023 20:36
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Johnny Keats posted:If we're to presume I was directed away from Iggy, itms likely Iggy's claimed self-target would have gone to the same player I got the role of. Iggy, per role PM does your recipient know they have been visited? No. Unfortunately I'm not loud and I don't have a way to confirm who I landed on, only who I chose to target.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:39
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Keats have you tried making a case to vote out scum I'm sorry every time I see redirect, blah blah, my targets, my claim, my eyes just glaze over.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:39
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Toalpaz posted:Keats have you tried making a case to vote out scum toal I know this may be hard for you but I want you to imagine a world in which me and Keats are both dead and flipped town. In that world who scum?
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Apr 18, 2023 20:45
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Imagine a world where you were ten feet tall and were also green and pink. I don't know why you're trying to appeal to your scum pick to unvote you, reeks of flailing.
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Apr 18, 2023 20:47
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I keep getting scummy vibes from paranoid dude, so I'm inclined to think Keats is town I'm not convinced that Meen is scum but I'd lean that way over keats. Still not sure if BOTH are town. The confusion being sown about roles/order/rules/etc are making this very difficult tbh
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Apr 18, 2023 20:50
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Toalpaz posted:Imagine a world where you were ten feet tall and were also green and pink. it's a prod to see if you're even a little interested in thinking or not, actually. nice to see you aren't though!
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Apr 18, 2023 20:51
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Reviewing toal's posts, kinda scummy ngl ##vote toal for now but I'm watching the Meen vs. Keats debate/debacle and trying my best to wrap my head around it
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Apr 18, 2023 20:55
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To be honest, I think my role is extremely far toward the "overpowered" side of the spectrum. Probably one of the strongest roles in the game, probably the strongest town role. Not to be self-important, heh. Because my PM doesn't *explicitly* say i'm immune from everything too, there's certainly possibility for something to be up. I have certainly thought about it thoroughly. But as I've said, I can't see how the role could possibly work without going first. And it also wouldn't function as written if the rolecop could activate on a different player than I boost. On a game-balance level I suspect that maybe CPig didn't intend for that conclusion to be reached and then wielded in this manner. But yeah
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Apr 18, 2023 20:55
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JosefStalinator posted:I keep getting scummy vibes from paranoid dude, so I'm inclined to think Keats is town I agree And I've been hot on Meen's case all day but I still wanted to wait and see what the defence was. Now he's provided it and it's kiiinda convincing but here's something that's been bothering me, in the back of my head, originally for Keats but now for Meen too I may have misinterpreted this, but I believe I've read that sometimes mods will provide premade "fakeclaims" to their scum players How does that work, and is it something that is ever done in SA games?
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Apr 18, 2023 20:58
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Johnny Keats posted:To be honest, I think my role is extremely far toward the "overpowered" side of the spectrum. Probably one of the strongest roles in the game, probably the strongest town role. Not to be self-important, heh. I'm inclined to think that since most of us are pinball parts that most of our actions are loud, and you'd know if you got tampered with (most likely). Also my interpretation of your original claim was that you'd go first anyway so its moot, but I'm pretty new to mafia so I'm still learning all the insane roles/lingo and am kinda deferring to the vets with the role interpretations (may be falling for scum tactics who knows)
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Apr 18, 2023 20:59
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Oh and ##vote Toalpaz since we're apparently doing that, I do want to see her flip just as much as Keats and Meen's
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Apr 18, 2023 21:00
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Mugrim, are you ok claiming? Just the verb your action uses would be fine.
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Apr 18, 2023 21:02
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Johnny Keats posted:Mugrim, are you ok claiming? Just the verb your action uses would be fine. No, when I claim I intend to fullclaim, but I would prefer not to do it until after the next flip unless I see some overwhelming need.
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Apr 18, 2023 21:06
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Alright. Town redirectors should try directing me away from Maugrim tonight. There's probably not a better use for town redirects right now anyway
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Apr 18, 2023 21:07
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##Vote Toalpaz
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Apr 18, 2023 21:08
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Well, the truth is I'm just a lowly bumper
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Apr 18, 2023 21:15
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For the record, I think Joseph just got scared out of bussing a teammate
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Apr 18, 2023 21:16
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Toalpaz posted:Well, the truth is I'm just a lowly bumper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1IphRx1pk
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Apr 18, 2023 21:19
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Johnny Keats posted:To be honest, I think my role is extremely far toward the "overpowered" side of the spectrum. Probably one of the strongest roles in the game, probably the strongest town role. Not to be self-important, heh. Keats please stop talking about your role being sick and try to find scum! This is not inspiring confidence
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Apr 18, 2023 21:19
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I’m fine with killing Toal today but I kinda feel like if we do we may end up relitigating Keats/Meen tomorrow, no?
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Apr 18, 2023 21:20
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Toalpaz posted:Well, the truth is I'm just a lowly bumper Do you choose your redirect target or is it random? Sandwolf posted:I’m fine with killing Toal today but I kinda feel like if we do we may end up relitigating Keats/Meen tomorrow, no? Maximum comedy option will be if we spend three days voting off all three of them and they all flip town.
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Apr 18, 2023 21:28
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Sandwolf posted:Keats please stop talking about your role being sick and try to find scum! This is not inspiring confidence It is sick though.
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Apr 18, 2023 21:28
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I kind of want to flip Meen before analyzing thread for scum more, especially after the report of Binus pushing Meen as town. Meen is being convincing lately, though. Don't know if Toal is the better choice. ##Unvote
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Apr 18, 2023 21:30
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At this point I will cheerfully hammer any of you three, but also I need to go to bed so you can fight it out amongst yourselves ##unvote... for now Good luck
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Apr 18, 2023 21:34
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| # ? Jan 15, 2026 04:55 |
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Maugrim posted:At this point I will cheerfully hammer any of you three, but also I need to go to bed so you can fight it out amongst yourselves You would cheerfully hammer me??
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Apr 18, 2023 21:40
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