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Gonna go out on a limb and say we don't need to both sides/wait for confirmation that the country that has been deliberately bombing civilians for the past week deliberately bombed some more civilians. Israel is loving disgusting.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:16
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I started to type up an effort post with various videos from a bunch of angles showing a rocket failing during one of the barrages (deliberately aimed at civilians^^^^), shortly followed by a large explosion in the strip. But gently caress, this whole period from the initial massacre is just so loving depressing. And this case? The people are dead, there are violent riots everywhere, and we still have a whole bunch of poo poo ahead of us before things eventually calm back down again. Don't Ask fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Oct 17, 2023 |
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Oct 17, 2023 22:22
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH STOP IT YOU ASSHOLES JUST loving STOP
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Oct 17, 2023 22:30
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I don't think they can hear you, they are still bombing the poo poo out of Gaza right now.
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Oct 17, 2023 22:45
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Laughing Zealot posted:Does Hamas even possess rockets/weapons capable of leveling buildings like a hospital? This is a good question, though I think the hospital was only somewhat damaged, not levelled. The casualties come from the hospital courtyard where hundreds of people were sheltering.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:08
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Laughing Zealot posted:Does Hamas even possess rockets/weapons capable of leveling buildings like a hospital? Sort of. They aren't the Taliban lobbing 107mm rockets at FOBs. They've been supplied with fairly powerful rockets and even SRBMs by Iran (which were on full display during their attack). I don't think it's anything capable of leveling an entire hospital individually, but if one went off and set off a bunch of secondaries then it's feasible. This was definitely an Israeli airstrike though.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:27
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It wasn't, though.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:45
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How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought Israël had the place tightly locked down. I’m not doubting it, just curious about the mechanics of it from a professional viewpoint.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:46
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FrozenVent posted:How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought Israël had the place tightly locked down. Tunnels of a complexity that would make a Mexican cartel lord nod with approval, allegedly.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:47
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FrozenVent posted:How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought Israël had the place tightly locked down. I have no idea. I do know that they have their own home-grown arms manufacturing base that operates in the aforementioned tunnels beneath the city. If I had to hazard a guess, there's probably a healthy amount of "Red Army carrying disassembled T-34s across the Urals" happening as well.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:53
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FrozenVent posted:How are they getting SRBM into Gaza? I thought Israël had the place tightly locked down. boring answer: https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/middleeast/hamas-weaponry-gaza-israel-palestine-unrest-intl-hnk-ml/index.html quote:“Hamas’ tunnel infrastructure is still massive despite Israel and Egypt regularly degrading it,” said Bilal Saab, senior fellow and director of the Defense and Security Program at the Middle East Institute (MEI) in Washington. Cage fight answer: 
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Oct 17, 2023 23:54
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Even if covert supply by sea is the more realistic option, I'm just imagining the size and design of tunnel needed to fit a whole rear end SRBM through it.
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Oct 17, 2023 23:59
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Kazinsal posted:Even if covert supply by sea is the more realistic option, I'm just imagining the size and design of tunnel needed to fit a whole rear end SRBM through it. Not as big as you'd think, provided you plan on it. Guesstimating some here- figure a box about 3 foot square, 15 feet long if they come in a shipping cannister possibly smaller, if it is something that could feasibly be broken down. I assume they also enter clandestinely in shipments and supplies, hidden in things like fuel oil trucks or the like; just like smuggling anything, you only need one guy in your pocket or negligent on assignment.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:12
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Kazinsal posted:Even if covert supply by sea is the more realistic option, I'm just imagining the size and design of tunnel needed to fit a whole rear end SRBM through it. maybe easier than you might imagine. googling one popular iranian type (not saying this is in use in gaza): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fateh-110 diameter of 0.60m, length of 9m. so pretty thin, but almost as long as two Ford F150's. hope your tunnel doesn't have many tight turns. more likely it'd be disassembled for smuggling however it came in
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Oct 18, 2023 00:15
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 I think it's kinda hosed up that the Israeli PM's twitter account is using this kind of language to invoke support for their attacks
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Oct 18, 2023 00:25
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It's totally unnecessary for a nation's PM's twitter account. Making a good vs evil narrative is poo poo in a situation where the most likely outcome is somewhere between atrocities and war crimes.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:33
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BUUNNI posted:
W is nodding and mentally high-fiving Bibi.
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Oct 18, 2023 00:49
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https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446 This is worth about as much as any other piece of info right now. (only a 85% chance it's disinfo)
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Oct 18, 2023 01:41
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They didn't make the mistake of leaving the timestamps on that one.
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Oct 18, 2023 01:47
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The odds of it being a failed Hamas rocket that "just happened" to directly hit the courtyard of a Hospital inside Gaza, and not a bomb dropped by Israel, who had already announced their intention to bomb that area, and have been doing so for days, is so stupid you guys. Seriously. Like Israel is just shrugging and going "I dunno, they probably bombed themselves" and you are taking their word for it. e] Oh also IDF aren't even saying it was Hamas, they're saying it was Islamic Jihad, of course. Radical 90s Wizard fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Oct 18, 2023 |
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Oct 18, 2023 01:58
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https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1714446569775173872 US seems to be going out of its way to say sometimes hospitals just explode mysteriously.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:21
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:The odds of it being a failed Hamas rocket that "just happened" to directly hit the courtyard of a Hospital inside Gaza, and not a bomb dropped by Israel, who had already announced their intention to bomb that area, and have been doing so for days, is so stupid you guys. Seriously. Gee goly, I don't know! Maybe it was a gas leak?!? Edit: to be clear, I agree 100%
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Oct 18, 2023 02:23
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mrmcd posted:https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1714446569775173872 Biden was pointedly avoiding saying Iran had a hand in this mess, he's not going to blame this on anyone without really firm evidence.
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Oct 18, 2023 02:24
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If it does turn out to be a failed rocket, the Israeli right is going to take the absolute wrong lesson from it. It's going to be "see, even when it's not us the world will blame us anyways, might as well pull out the few remaining stops." This instead of going the extra step further and asking themselves why everyone with at least one eyeball and two brain cells was so quick to assume they bombed a hospital full of self-created refugees on purpose or out of callous negligence. The answer is not "antisemitism"
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Oct 18, 2023 02:29
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Gaza has a population just a little over 2 million people. A population of that size is going to require a scale of logistics that is going to be essentially impossible to inspect 100% faultlessly all the time every time. Whether by land or sea or air, enterprising persons are going to be able to get things smuggled in, just by the sheer scale of materials that must enter and exit Gaza.
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Oct 18, 2023 03:06
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The thing that really gets me about the theory of it being a Palestinian weapon is that if Hamas or IJ had anything vaguely that powerful, they would have used it in the initial attack when they knew they were going to saturate Iron Dome. It would have been the perfect time to put it into an actually valuable target. Not now, when rocket fire has become relatively desultory and the Israeli defences are functioning again.
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Oct 18, 2023 03:31
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The Promised Podcast just put out a special episode offering the perspective of a Palestinian Israeli on the last week. Definitely worth a listen as I've not seen similar elsewhere. Sally Abed is a Palestinian-Israeli activist seeking election in Haifa and she describes a visceral fear of a new Nakba of potentially unlimited scope—in Gaza and West Bank, obviously, but even to those 1.8 million Palestinian Israelis who have citizenship. There've been a wave of arrests targeting anyone who makes statements even remotely expressing solidarity with the people of Gaza, there's fear of random acts of violence from Jews against anyone perceived on the street to be Arab, and an unnuanced demand for revenge even from left-wing Israelis. Talk about how the ongoing apartheid regime could have been a causal factor in the attack elicits condemnation as justifying the raid. Separately, I saw that Blinken was asked about conditions put on aid to Israel to rein in the IDF's violence against civilians and their homes, to which he responded that Israel has an absolute right of self-defence and the United States would never imagine conditioning aid under any circumstances. What a sharp contrast with aid to Ukraine... In the one case, you have a relatively small, poor state scrabbling against an obviously existential threat from (what remains of) one of the world's two superpowers. In the other, you have relatively large, prosperous state engaging a tiny terrorist organization which is fundamentally incapable of posing a significant threat outside the borders it's been corralled into (even last week's raid, atrocious and shocking though it was, hinted at no existential threat and was utterly unachievable without one of the most dire intelligence and military failures in history—Hamas may possess the will, but it obviously lacks the means). Ukraine is burdened with extensive conditions imposed by its suppliers, yet Israel, a country fully capable of funding its own defense, receives none. Publicly, at least.
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Oct 18, 2023 03:39
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I'm kind of wondering if the Speaker deadlock in Congress was a factor in the time frame for Hamas or if that's just a coincidence. I'm leaning towards coincidence because this action obviously took a lot of premeditation, but I do still wonder if the Go button was pressed on an accelerated basis once Gatez kicked McCarthy out and it became obvious that this would become a drawn-out stalemate chaining American hands. Really, I'm kind of wondering to what degree American incapacity to call upon pursestrings right now factors into either side's playbooks
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Oct 18, 2023 04:27
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The thing that really gets me about the theory of it being a Palestinian weapon is that if Hamas or IJ had anything vaguely that powerful, they would have used it in the initial attack when they knew they were going to saturate Iron Dome. It would have been the perfect time to put it into an actually valuable target. Not now, when rocket fire has become relatively desultory and the Israeli defences are functioning again. The theory I saw floated was rocket misfire into an ammo dump. Which, yeah sure, that'd be enough to do it. I still think it's 95% likely that it was the IDF.
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Oct 18, 2023 04:34
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us statement on the strike remains conspicuously non-committal wrt who is repsonsible https://twitter.com/marquardta/status/1714467357035282848 Handsome Ralph posted:The theory I saw floated was rocket misfire into an ammo dump. Which, yeah sure, that'd be enough to do it. whatever happened it was 0% a rocket landing in an ammo dump [in a courtyard of a hospital packed with people]
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Oct 18, 2023 04:39
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Yeah, generally speaking, ammo dumps don't go up in one big floof.
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Oct 18, 2023 04:40
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Yeah, generally speaking, ammo dumps don't go up in one big floof. Yeah they go more like a firework factory
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Oct 18, 2023 04:45
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:The odds of it being a failed Hamas rocket that "just happened" to directly hit the courtyard of a Hospital inside Gaza, and not a bomb dropped by Israel, who had already announced their intention to bomb that area, and have been doing so for days, is so stupid you guys. Seriously. 
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Oct 18, 2023 05:03
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Handsome Ralph posted:The theory I saw floated was rocket misfire into an ammo dump. Which, yeah sure, that'd be enough to do it. lol yeh, the theory so implausible that even the IDF aren't trying it
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Oct 18, 2023 05:11
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can’t believe y’all falling for this jihadist misinformation. that wasn’t a hospital, that was a *looks over shoulder at the dude w the cue cards* that was a Hamas fire base, I mean Islamic Jihad fire base. Besides, so loving what if them ayyrabs get killed. We need the jews to have Israel so Jesus will come back and rapture us. Whose side are you on? Listen I know it’s a tragedy but maybe they should have picked up paper clips and stabbed their Hamas overlords to death. Really if you think about it, there are no civilians down there anyway. They don’t believe in Jesus, they are complicit or directly supportive of terrorism, and *whispers* they’re savages. All of them are. We have to support our ally, Israel. *claps hands and stomp feet* we *claps* must *claps* support *claps* Israel, our greatest ally ever…except for that one time. Please stop letting the liberal media tell you how to think and feel. Thank you. Pray for peace in the Middle East. Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers y’all. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 18, 2023 05:13
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Handsome Ralph posted:The theory I saw floated was rocket misfire into an ammo dump. Which, yeah sure, that'd be enough to do it. The theory of someone making poo poo up.
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Oct 18, 2023 08:23
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Don't Ask posted:It wasn't, though. It wasn't what?
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Oct 18, 2023 08:53
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arent the rockets hamas shoots at isreal pretty small anyways? no way they would be able to cause 500+ casualties in 1 pop
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Oct 18, 2023 09:16
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ded posted:arent the rockets hamas shoots at isreal pretty small anyways? no way they would be able to cause 500+ casualties in 1 pop The usual Hamas rocket has trouble breaking double-digit deaths.
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Oct 18, 2023 09:24
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IDF is saying the propellant is what caused the explosion. Some of the failed Russian S-300 launches caused fairly big explosions, so I suppose it's plausible.
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Oct 18, 2023 09:33
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