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bulletsponge13 posted:Without more details, we are assuming a lot from this "10/7 didn't happen" comment. Do they mean it didn't happen at all? False Flag? Some other weird version of reality? So if you make the mistake of visiting Twitter, you will find a few different flavors, chief among them: 1) The civilian deaths are exaggerated or outright fabrication; or, 2) IDF caused the civilian casualties blind firing in a panic (like, not just some of them, but all of them) e: to clarify, nobody is claiming that 10/7 didn't happen, but there is a concerted narrative effort that denies Hamas/PIJ committed murder and other atrocities against civilians It's cut from the same cloth as the "Pallywood" accusations that Hamas is faking all the civilian casualties. My side is good, therefore any accusations must be lies and any proof is fake. I do understand doubt around the more lurid stories. I remember after Katrina there were all sorts of stories about beastly survivors minorities committing all sorts of heinous acts at the Superdome. The Superintendint (NO police chief) held a press conference where he tearfully declared "they raped a baby, man!" (No babies were raped and people were frustrated but otherwise chill, meanwhile the NOPD and white homeowners used the stories to justify shooting black people left and right) Discussion Quorum fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 02:18
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Discussion Quorum posted:I do understand doubt around the more lurid stories. I remember after Katrina there were all sorts of stories about beastly survivors minorities committing all sorts of heinous acts at the Superdome. The Superintendint (NO police chief) held a press conference where he tearfully declared "they raped a baby, man!" (No babies were raped and people were frustrated but otherwise chill, meanwhile the NOPD and white homeowners used the stories to justify shooting black people left and right) I mean that happens in every natural disaster in the United States. Behind the Bastards has an Episode on it, Elite Panic, focusing on the Ycua Balanos Store Fire.
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Nov 17, 2023 02:33
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Discussion Quorum posted:e: to clarify, nobody is claiming that 10/7 didn't happen, but there is a concerted narrative effort that denies Hamas/PIJ committed murder and other atrocities against civilians I think to some extent it's less "my side must be good, your side must be lying" and more "holy poo poo the IDF has provably made up so much patently insane poo poo that all of their claims are automatically suspect from here on out, barring a preponderance of evidence from other actors.", at least from anyone who isn't a raving lunatic.
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Nov 17, 2023 02:36
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Discussion Quorum posted:So if you make the mistake of visiting Twitter, you will find a few different flavors, chief among them: Just to be clear, the cops were loving monsters during and after Katrina. I should not know what a 'ham sandwich' is beyond a struggle lunch.
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Nov 17, 2023 02:41
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:I'm not doing that at all, I was pushing back at Wombot bringing up "10/7 denial" because it sounds like bullshit and honestly to me just sounds like another disingenuous pro-Israeli talking point because like I said, I haven't seen it on the forums, and it sounds like a straw-man argument to distract from an entire month of genocide. He equated PCM's post referencing "Hamas decapitating babies" to denying the attack on 10/7 ever happened at all. To me that's disingenuous as gently caress. Between my original post, this post ^ and my reply, other folks have added more nuance. I haven't seen it as virulent on SA as other places, but there is definitely a narrative that is being actively sewn to discredit the impact of the attacks on 10/7. Phrasing like what PCM said is repeated verbatim and used to start the funnel that radicalizes people and ends with, "The attack on 10/7 didn't happen, and if it did it was small, and all the victims were IDF, the civilians were treated humanely by Hamas." That sickens me and is becoming equivalent to Holocaust denial. To be clear, I have no love for the IDF, and especially detest their handling of the response to 10/7, just as I detest Hamas for attacking on 10/7. IDF has not helped the situation by lying outright themselves. So my overall point was that it sucks poo poo that two posters who were talking in good faith and reasonable tones got probes while another poster who's known to post bad-faith, inflammatory things didn't also catch a probe when they posted a bad-faith, inflammatory thing (regardless of if they are actively trying to discredit the impact of 10/7 or not).
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Nov 17, 2023 03:39
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Well at least you guys are getting some sweet new avs out of it 
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Nov 17, 2023 04:12
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Lmao aww, no one's ever cared enough to buy me an av before
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Nov 17, 2023 04:30
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Nov 17, 2023 04:31
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https://x.com/jordanuhl/status/1725340407670915379?s=46&t=fppHBZSlD4AbSz5pJxjFMQ While we’re talking about wild claims, how about “none of the dead kids are the result of Israeli action.”
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Nov 17, 2023 05:11
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Grip it and rip it posted:Do you post anything that isn't vitriolic poo poo stirring? not really but its more honest work than unquestioningly reposting reheated propaganda we got hit with two decades ago
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Nov 17, 2023 16:00
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psydude posted:Dude there's been people in this very thread trying to claim that the whole thing was made up where the gently caress in this thread are people saying the entire thing was made up.
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Nov 17, 2023 16:50
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Talking of things being made up. https://twitter.com/ShonaMurray_/status/1725460753748992229 I am shocked by this twist. Guess there's no choice but to head south and flatten everything there as well.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:50
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I am actually surprised if they really are giving up on saying the Shifa was HQ, I was expecting them to ship props in for a few days and then show off Dr Evil's lair.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:52
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I don't see why Hamas would have a centralized HQ at all. They're effectively rebels fighting an occupation-- sitting still for any length of time is a recipe for getting killed.
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Nov 17, 2023 17:56
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Count Roland posted:I don't see why Hamas would have a centralized HQ at all. They're effectively rebels fighting an occupation-- sitting still for any length of time is a recipe for getting killed. They most likely don't, but if I learned anything from American warfare, you don't let pesky things like facts get in the way of your war.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:01
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PookBear posted:where the gently caress in this thread are people saying the entire thing was made up. This is from page 3: Fivemarks posted:Huh. Looks like a bunch of early reports of Hamas atrocities were either fake, or blown out of proportion to justify a hardline "We have to kill all the vermin" stance. So, uh.... They were eventually told to leave the thread after several pages of insinuations and backtracking. psydude fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Nov 17, 2023 |
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Nov 17, 2023 18:03
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They were blown out of proportion, that much has become clear in the following weeks. That's not why Fivemarks got told to gently caress off
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Nov 17, 2023 18:24
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M_Gargantua posted:They were blown out of proportion, that much has become clear in the following weeks. This is correct. But if you go back and reread the posts there was a lot of couched language suggesting that even the non-sensational stuff was made up.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:31
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psydude posted:This is correct. But if you go back and reread the posts there was a lot of couched language suggesting that even the non-sensational stuff was made up. Yes but it feels like you are grasping at straws here, no offense.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:47
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CommieGIR posted:Yes but it feels like you are grasping at straws here, no offense. In hindsight, probably, yeah. But the speed with which people were rushing to make those kinds of claims early on before there was a clear picture of what had actually happened leaves me unsurprised that there's a growing chorus of denial.
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Nov 17, 2023 18:54
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Talking of things being made up. https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1725528930482798620?s=19
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Nov 17, 2023 19:25
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The burden of proof is on the claimant. It's understandable that claims were immediately met with incredulity and even anger given that the extraordinary claims were being used to justify extreme violence and deprivation against the entire Palestinian people.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:29
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psydude posted:In hindsight, probably, yeah. But the speed with which people were rushing to make those kinds of claims early on before there was a clear picture of what had actually happened leaves me unsurprised that there's a growing chorus of denial. It was clear from the very start that this propaganda was being used to fuel a genocide, because this is a common pattern in genocides.
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Nov 17, 2023 19:46
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Proud Christian Mom posted:not really but its more honest work than unquestioningly reposting reheated propaganda we got hit with two decades ago Constantly making bad taith interpretations and getting histrionic doesn't really add anything to the conversation to be had, other than making this board more closely resemble twitter or Facebook.
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Nov 17, 2023 21:05
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Count Roland posted:I don't see why Hamas would have a centralized HQ at all. They're effectively rebels fighting an occupation-- sitting still for any length of time is a recipe for getting killed. Don't forget that their leadership doesn't even live in Gaza.
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Nov 17, 2023 21:46
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The IDF had to destroy all those hospitals because Hamas leadership is untouchable in their impenetrable supervillain lair, the (checks notes) Four Seasons Doha
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Nov 17, 2023 21:55
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You guys are looking at this all wrong. Israel is America, Jr. 10/7 was 9/11. The hospitals are Iraq.
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Nov 17, 2023 22:12
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who is hulk hogan
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Nov 18, 2023 06:24
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Nov 18, 2023 07:27
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Adenoid Dan posted:It was clear from the very start that this propaganda was being used to fuel a genocide, because this is a common pattern in genocides. Im reading a really interesting book that delves more into this called “The Third Reich in the Ivory Tower” about how American elite universities coddled fascist Germany until it became politically disadvantageous.
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Nov 18, 2023 18:34
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Turns out the body count at the rave was, at least in part, the result of an IDF gunship lighting up party goers. The more that comes out about the IDF response on that day the more it seems they really did just not give a gently caress about separating their own people from the hostiles. Blue on blue between disparate infantry units stumbling over each other while there was no clear C&C I can understand, but stuff like this or the tanks apparently firing on houses with hostages in as prelim to clearing them, it's nuts. https://twitter.com/AliAbunimah/status/1725958732113162579?t=DEj5cTnSYE6FBaE_VTMYfQ&s=19
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Nov 19, 2023 00:32
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drat I didn't realize the Russian influence ran that deep.
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Nov 19, 2023 00:53
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Turns out the body count at the rave was, at least in part, the result of an IDF gunship lighting up party goers. The more that comes out about the IDF response on that day the more it seems they really did just not give a gently caress about separating their own people from the hostiles. Blue on blue between disparate infantry units stumbling over each other while there was no clear C&C I can understand, but stuff like this or the tanks apparently firing on houses with hostages in as prelim to clearing them, it's nuts. what the gently caress That footage was real?
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Nov 19, 2023 00:59
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Double post but jesus christ, the knee-jerk reaction from a lot of rather bright people was that it was possibly misattributed footage because it seemed unlikely even a green pilot would be that supremely stupid Oh boy, the Israeli State may have been in awful lot of trouble before but this, this is going to cement a level of generational skepticism against the state that is not going to be easily dislodged Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 01:01
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I hesitate to ask, but was he just firing into the crowd? I don't remember talk of a helicopter at all, so either I missed it or wrote it off as so outlandishly unlikely it wasn't worth remembering.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:03
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I hesitate to ask, but was he just firing into the crowd? it is occurring to me that it is now necessary to determine precisely what footage is real, there have been several videos Lord knows that there will now going to be way more fake clip shows making it even more challenging for common people to find which was actually true Edit: understanding your question a bit more, he was firing at structures (concert things like pop up tents) and packs of people acting in ways that really only scared civilians would, if the video I have in mind ends up being verified. How this make it into the public's hands, who knows. Someone with a horrified conscience, maybe. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Nov 19, 2023 |
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Nov 19, 2023 01:05
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Turns out the body count at the rave was, at least in part, the result of an IDF gunship lighting up party goers. The more that comes out about the IDF response on that day the more it seems they really did just not give a gently caress about separating their own people from the hostiles. Blue on blue between disparate infantry units stumbling over each other while there was no clear C&C I can understand, but stuff like this or the tanks apparently firing on houses with hostages in as prelim to clearing them, it's nuts. Just posting in general here. I never thought I’d wake up to see a day where a terrorist attack happens, and, as everything plays out, I’m like “I don’t know who’s worse.” Between the propaganda and psyops being played out, learning about the Hannibal directive, and seeing this come out. loving hell. And the poo poo w the hospital too. Like at least Colin Powell lied better than this poo poo. I knew from the moment 10/7 happened the ultranationalist crew was going to use it as pretext to wild out. Just didn’t think they’d be going full warhammer 40k on everyone involved, including their own people. Some real “innocence is no excuse” vibes playing out irl. gently caress.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:06
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Voyager I posted:drat I didn't realize the Russian influence ran that deep. if they die, it means they’re no good for Israel
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Nov 19, 2023 01:07
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TheWeedNumber posted:Just didn’t think they’d be going full warhammer 40k on everyone involved, including their own people. They even have apothecaries collecting geneseed.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:09
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:They even have apothecaries collecting geneseed. Yeah I know they want everyone to have like 8 Jewish babies per family or some poo poo but holy poo poo.  The part that kills me are the Jews I know OL and IRL are blind. There is no middle ground. I’ll get quoted how the IDF has procedures to avoid collateral damage and also hear from a rabbi “I don’t believe Israel is bombing indiscriminately.” Like bro I don’t want your people to get wiped out but your soldiers and pilots are smoking folks left and right. They’re victim blaming with JDAMs or whatever their equivalent is. I can’t look away no more. I can’t even say “both sides are bad” and not be complicit in some way, even if it’s just ignorance. All I know is “does it matter how we got here if children are dying in droves?” Soldiers deserve to fight soldiers, even if they are irregulars and terrorists. This ain’t it. It wasn’t from day one and it’s not today.
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Nov 19, 2023 01:27
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