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Dropping Ethiopian birthrates prompted the Israeli government to investigate what was going on in the first place. This was obviously just cover for a poorly coordinated campaign to get rid of black people in Israel.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:26
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Grip it and rip it posted:
quote:In the first part of the article argues that the balance between choice and coercion and between passivity and activity on the part of Ethiopian women on this issue was far more subtle than has generally been depicted. "The constant administering of a birth control drug did not reduce anyone's fertility rate, honest! And anyway it was kind of their own fault!" I'm going to admit to some considerable and massive amounts of doubt over this particular study, especially considering that the author is Israeli. I don't have access to the rest, but just the abstract is wild.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:38
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ah yes, the perfidious israeli and their deceptive academic papers. Their treachery knows no bounds. Naturally you're disinclined to believe this paper because of all of the well researched materials you have stating the contrary conclusion??! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2023 22:46
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The guy appears to be one of the most prominent academics on Ethiopian Jews. If anything I'd think he would be more sensitive to detect wrongdoing.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:53
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Jesus loving Christ this thread was so much better when it was merely about Israel bombing the poo poo out of Palestinian civilians. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2023 23:06
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Anyway this is really tangential to the current conflict. At least we established that y'all agree that Israel is a country that a) does exist and b) has a right to exist. It follows from there that they have an obligation to protect their population and makes a basis for looking at the operations in Gaza. There was a good Lawfare episode this week on the IDF's tolérance for civilian casualties compared to the US and UK. It is much higher! I don't agree fully with the guy's assessment, the threat Israel faces is in a totally different ballpark from anything the US faced from ISIS. But, it's a very well structured analysis of the calculus of whether and how many civilian casualties might be a consequence of a particular action.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:07
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There was that time the light skinned Israeli police officers were caught on camera beating the poo poo out of an Ethiopian IDF soldier. The cops avoided any jail time and manage to get away with only a minor fine, apparently. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4938572,00.html Reminds me of a certain country  knox_harrington posted:Anyway this is really tangential to the current conflict. At least we established that y'all agree that Israel is a country that a) does exist and b) has a right to exist. That’s like saying Nazi Germany has a right to exist (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) BUUNNI fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Dec 2, 2023 |
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Dec 2, 2023 23:21
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knox_harrington posted:Anyway this is really tangential to the current conflict. At least we established that y'all agree that Israel is a country that a) does exist and b) has a right to exist. It follows from there that they have an obligation to protect their population and makes a basis for looking at the operations in Gaza. No we don't. We sure as loving hell don't agree that Israel has an "inherent" right to exist. If Israel has a right to exist, than so does a hypothetical New Afrika carved out of the United States. No country has a right to exist.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:27
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Ok, that's enough, the thread has gotten to the point where I can't be arsed to read it, so we're going back into dystopian mode. For all the newcomers, here's a reminder of the subforum rules: quote:GIP is not a "FYAD Lite" -- This means that inline NSW images or racism will be punished; normal SA rules apply. Further, as in the current event thread, the thread is for discussion of current events, not other posters.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:35
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What, was there a Hamas command centre ITT or something FV? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 2, 2023 23:59
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/israel-pulls-mossad-negotiators-from-qatar-after-impasse-over-captives I don't believe there was a mention of this yet, apparently Israel-Hamas negotiations have broken down for the time being, with both sides accusing the other of making impossible demands or changing the goalposts.
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Dec 3, 2023 00:19
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How about some, if it's a sincere statement, legitimately good news on the periphery of this conflict? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/02/politics/harris-cop28-israel-gaza/index.html
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Dec 3, 2023 01:53
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That's actually great because I needed something to balance out Abandoned babies found decomposing in Gaza hospital weeks after it was evacuated 
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Dec 3, 2023 02:53
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There's a Hamas command center in my butt. Do what you need to do. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2023 05:18
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PurpleXVI posted:https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/israel-pulls-mossad-negotiators-from-qatar-after-impasse-over-captives Okay, so, what is the Mossad? In what capacity or commission would they have served as negotiators in the linked Qatar talks? Negotiation seems like a function traditionally served by foreign service / state department types.
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Dec 3, 2023 05:27
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Woodpile posted:There's a Hamas command center in my butt. Do what you need to do.  I can't believe you've done this, I can't believe you've warcrimed Woodpile's butt.
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Dec 3, 2023 07:08
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Potato Salad posted:Okay, so, what is the Mossad? In what capacity or commission would they have served as negotiators in the linked Qatar talks? Mossad does have a division for foreign relations which is one of the channels by which Israel communicates with countries with which it has no official diplomatic relations. In the past at least foreign dignitaries who were in Israel for secret talks and such were often housed in its HQ (they had like a whole floor dedicated to their accommodation). If I had to guess I'd say the negotiation team is comprised of people from a bunch of different organizations/departments. Mossad is unlikely to be the one finalizing the list of Palestinian prisoners to be released in a swap for instance, that seems much more like Shin Bet's realm. Sway Grunt fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 07:45
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A.o.D. posted:How about some, if it's a sincere statement, legitimately good news on the periphery of this conflict? Well, at least the US is sharpening their rhetoric. But I feel like what's missing here is a consequence for Israel violating these US red lines.
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Dec 3, 2023 09:39
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knox_harrington posted:At least we established that y'all agree that Israel is a country that a) does exist and b) has a right to exist. I disagree. Israel is an occupying force and a genocidal ethnostate, and should be forcibly dismantled! The violence visited upon the occupying force, of which the armed settlers are part of, is justified and 10/7 was justified too. Your response? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2023 09:50
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Luceid posted:I disagree. Israel is an occupying force and a genocidal ethnostate, and should be forcibly dismantled! Your response? Setting aside that this view is exactly why Israel behaves in such a belligerent way; regardless of whether you think it should be a country, Israel does exist and has rights for protecting its population under international law. Given the attack Hamas recently made and their stated aims, it is easy to see why Israelis see calls for forcibly dismantling their country as calls for their genocide. knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 09:55
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Luceid posted:I disagree. Israel is an occupying force and a genocidal ethnostate, and should be forcibly dismantled! The violence visited upon the occupying force, of which the armed settlers are part of, is justified and 10/7 was justified too. Your response? To go back and review the last 4 pages because we just finished discussing this at length and don't need another 4 pages rehashing the same arguments.
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Dec 3, 2023 10:20
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knox_harrington posted:Setting aside that this view is exactly why Israel behaves in such a belligerent way; if you don't understand what a "country" is it makes sense that you also can't understand what is and is not permissible for military forces to do in conflict. Countries behaving in a manner such as Israel suck rear end, and I am unmoved by reference to some vague notion of statehood (or whatever) as a defense for their rabid dog behavior biting everyone in range, their politicians arguing for the use of starvation and epidemics against the Palestinian people, and so on. The old adage sticks: if everyone you meet acts like an rear end in a top hat, you might be the rear end in a top hat. Israel cries that everyone hates them, while lashing out as the latest in a long line of violent colonial projects. How stinkin' odd! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2023 10:24
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psydude posted:To go back and review the last 4 pages because we just finished discussing this at length and don't need another 4 pages rehashing the same arguments. I kindly disagree with the IDF defense crew here, you can turf me out of the thread if those are the rules but you don't get to say that we all agree when clearly we don't!
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Dec 3, 2023 10:26
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If you think the Hamas actions were justified in full then you can't object to the Israelis killing civilians either. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2023 10:30
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Given this is a military subforum and military legitimacy depends on the concept of a nation, I think arguing that nations don't exist is going to be an uphill battle.
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Dec 3, 2023 10:32
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Israel is not even a legitimate state. Joe Biden is literally older than Israel.
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Dec 3, 2023 10:49
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BUUNNI posted:Israel is not even a legitimate state. Joe Biden is literally older than Israel. If existing before Biden is the main criteria for legitimacy, then we can rule out Germany, all of the former USSR and eastern bloc, both Koreas, Iran, India, China, Cuba, Alaska, Hawaii, the United Nations ... the list can go on. I mean you could even throw France in there as well, although the whole fifth republic thing was more self-imposed. psydude fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 10:55
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Shut the gently caress up Knox (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 3, 2023 11:01
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PurpleXVI posted:Well, at least the US is sharpening their rhetoric. But I feel like what's missing here is a consequence for Israel violating these US red lines. I think the US has already communicated what that consequence is by their earlier abstention in the Security Council.
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Dec 3, 2023 11:12
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So, no consequence. Just a "signal"
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Dec 3, 2023 11:47
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Shut the gently caress up Knox Great rebuttal
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Dec 3, 2023 11:53
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Reel your necks back in this ain't D&D or CSPAM, calls to genocide anyone are going to get your ability to post revoked. Israel is wrong in what they are doing, so is Hamas, calling for the total destruction of Israel or the merciless grinding into the dirt of Palestinians is going to wind up with the person demanding it taking a long break.
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Dec 3, 2023 11:58
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Absolutely. And to be clear, I think what the IDF is doing is excessive and abhorrent.
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Dec 3, 2023 12:06
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Potato Salad posted:Okay, so, what is the Mossad? In what capacity or commission would they have served as negotiators in the linked Qatar talks? Additionally, a recent Washington Post article had some additional background: quote:[CIA Director Burns'] role in the Israel-Gaza war is particularly prominent given Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s reliance on Mossad chief David Barnea. So in part it's due to the ongoing dysfunction in Bibi's government, similar to how Trump ended up relying more and more on his inner circle for everything because of the ~+DEEP STATE+~. The article was in relation to Biden sending CIA Director William Burns to Qatar as well to lead efforts to pressure the Israelis into a deal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/28/cia-william-burns-israel-hamas-hostages/
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Dec 3, 2023 12:23
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Luceid posted:I disagree. Israel is an occupying force and a genocidal ethnostate, and should be forcibly dismantled! The violence visited upon the occupying force, of which the armed settlers are part of, is justified and 10/7 was justified too. Your response? If tbe state is dismantled, where should the citizens go? Who gets the area?
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Dec 3, 2023 13:25
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I haven't been paying attention at all. How has Burns been as CIA director?
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Dec 3, 2023 13:27
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Bored As gently caress posted:I haven't been paying attention at all. How has Burns been as CIA director? He was a career State employee- 32 years to include under secretary for Clinton. per wiki; Wikipedia posted:Burns served as ambassador to Jordan from 1998 to 2001, assistant secretary of state for Near East affairs from 2001 to 2005, ambassador to Russia from 2005 to 2008 and under secretary of state for political affairs from 2008 to 2011.[6] So he's about the business and as professionally qualified as anybody ever put in charge of the Agency. He's a "symbolic" member of the cabinet, which either speaks well to his foreign policy experience and Biden's willingness to have a deep bench of careerists after the Trump years, or an indictment of the fact that post-911 we feel the foreign intelligence directorate is as vital to foreign policy as actual diplomacy. Or both.
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Dec 3, 2023 15:36
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bloody ghost titty posted:He was a career State employee- 32 years to include under secretary for Clinton. per wiki; I think it was a pretty big part of cold war diplomacy as well. I recall reading a retrospective analysis that one of the reasons why the US and USSR existed in an awkward peace for most of the cold war was that they were both aware of the "real" thinking and intentions of the other. We're seen that re-emerge here and also with Burns' commiques with the Russians during Prigozhin's aborted coup. If anything, I think the post-9/11 era eroded that function with an emphasis on counter terrorism.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:08
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Vahakyla posted:If tbe state is dismantled, where should the citizens go? They could live under any new nation state in the area?
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Dec 3, 2023 18:45
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Luceid posted:I kindly disagree with the IDF defense crew here, you can turf me out of the thread if those are the rules but you don't get to say that we all agree when clearly we don't! Ok, calling this thread the "IDF defense crew" clearly eradiates any credibility that you're here in good faith, so I'm just going to go ahead and tell you to gently caress off out of this thread and to never come back. knox_harrington, you can gtfo too.
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Dec 3, 2023 20:03
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