2023 Hamas/Israeli War Thread: Pier today, gone tomorrow.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > 2023 Hamas/Israeli War Thread: Pier today, gone tomorrow.

Melthir: Dec 29, 2009; I need to go scrap some money together cause my avatar is just sad.

This poo poo is dark as hell from any way you look at it and unfortunately the bystanders have become two turds in a toilet just waiting for the flush. Shits going to get worse before it gets better especially now that Israel is swinging outside their boarders.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:25

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# ? Oct 5, 2024 16:06

99pct of germs: Apr 13, 2013

Israel calling up a poo poo ton of reservist implies this is only going to get much worse.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-drafts-300000-reservists-it-goes-offensive-2023-10-09/

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:25

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

The media narrative does appear to be bending towards "total war against Palestine is warranted" . Whether that will be the consensus in the end or not will likely determine the outcome for an entire region of people.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:29

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Soylent Pudding posted:

To the extent we have sources reporting on the most egregious of Hamas's crimes against humanity, it's western journalists from mainstream media sources are reporting statements from front line soldiers and first responders. It's also worth noting that the IDF didn't outright deny it but simply said they didn't have enough information to confirm. Forgive me for not dredging up the links but I know at least some of those statements are in the CBS articles already posted.

I'm also not mainlining updates as they come in because I can only take so much so apologies if the above has been overtaken by new information.

Beheaded babies is obviously the most horrific and attention getting, but other western journalists have reported Israeli soldiers and first responders claiming they've seen bodies that were bound and showed signs of torture.

I'm hoping bulletsponge is right that the worst of the mutilation claims are telephone nonsense from observers unused to the grotesque and horrific injuries caused by modern weapons. I also loving hate that this is the silver lining to hope for.

Hamas forces also held some of these communities for hours upon hours and had sufficient control to exfiltrate civilian hostages. I think we have enough evidence to believe Hamas did torture and summarily execute civilian captives in areas they controlled. Humans being humans, and Hamas being what they are I think we can safely believe Hamas fighters were racking up SEAL level brutalities even if we don't know the exact details.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with unfairness in the media emphasizing Palestinian war crimes and emphasizing Israeli victims while downplaying Israeli war crimes and downplaying Palestinian victims.

But Hamas is an enthoreligious supremacist organization that wants a global genocide of the Jewish people. There is literally nothing Israel can do short of mass ritual suicide that Hamas won't see has justification for continued war crimes.

Both sides have the same desired outcome, then, but the Israelis have the head start on the ethnic cleansing.

It's hosed up. Neither side is the good guy. In a just world, an international peacekeeping force backed by US air elements would take control and stand down both sides. Instead, we have US SOF elements assisting in genocide because ???

E- I'm not supporting either side, but it's hard not to find some sympathy for the people of Gaza; I feel the same way about Hamas as I did about the insurgents in Iraq: what else would we expect? Reminded me of that verse from the Tyler Childers song "Long Violent History".

bulletsponge13 fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Oct 12, 2023

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:38

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

Read an Atlantic article (here though I think it's paywalled) about the conflict and if that's representative then poo poo's going downhill and the people in the driver's seat are baying for blood. While it's kind of portrayed as 9/11 situation the big difference in tone I got from that interview is that he isn't rallying behind Netanyahu, just war. The guy giving the interview wants Hamas destroyed *and* Netanyahu out of office because he's pissed that Netanyahu didn't stop it from happening. Different, so far, from the 9/11 "With us or against us if you don't like it here git out!" rhetoric at least but my feeling is the outcome is probably going to end up the same over time. I suspect Netanyahu is going to be able to ride the current wave of chaos long enough to give himself time to build that level of support that good ol' Bush-y kins got for free.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:43

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

bulletsponge13 posted:

E- I'm not supporting either side, but it's hard not to find some sympathy for the people of Gaza; I feel the same way about Hamas as I did about the insurgents in Iraq: what else would we expect? Reminded me of that verse from the Tyler Childers song "Long Violent History".

What limited research has been done suggests that there's actually very little popular support for Hamas among Gazans, but it's not like they really have a choice there.

For their part, Hamas is likely hoping that Israel will overreact and launch a full invasion so they can rack up the IDF body count. And unfortunately, it seems like Israel is going to walk right into it.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:43

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

bulletsponge13 posted:

Both sides have the same desired outcome, then, but the Israelis have the head start on the ethnic cleansing.

It's hosed up. Neither side is the good guy. In a just world, an international peacekeeping force backed by US air elements would take control and stand down both sides. Instead, we have US SOF elements assisting in genocide because ???

E- I'm not supporting either side, but it's hard not to find some sympathy for the people of Gaza; I feel the same way about Hamas as I did about the insurgents in Iraq: what else would we expect? Reminded me of that verse from the Tyler Childers song "Long Violent History".

There is no international force either side would trust to fairly administer the region and it would immediately devolve into a counterinsurgency free for all.

We absolutely should have sympathy for people in Gaza. They're stuck between living under an Israeli siege and randomly having their families exploded in an airstrike on the one hand and living under a Hamas regime that violently took power and is imposing Islamist restrictions on the population. As an aside Hamas and the ultra orthodox settlers really are a mirror image of each other.

That's why it's important to remember that Hamas and the people of Gaza are not one and the same. Fatah and the Palestinian government in the west bank is officially committed to a non-violent two state solution despite the pogroms and land grabs from Israeli settler militias. I agree we should expect hatred and lashing out but we should be careful about removing the agency in going from legitimate trauma and rage to "and now I must war crime harder than you" even if that is a fundamentally human response as we've seen across history.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:51

mrmcd: Feb 22, 2003; Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

bulletsponge13 posted:

It's hosed up. Neither side is the good guy. In a just world, an international peacekeeping force backed by US air elements would take control and stand down both sides. Instead, we have US SOF elements assisting in genocide because ???

The reason we support Israel is the same reason we strongly support KSA and don't bring up all their genocidal war crimes (not to mention the fact the government literally beheads people in a public square weekly). It's seen as desirable to have a friendly partner in the region that is fairly strong militarily, and more importantly plugged in to local intelligence gathering. Plus both are ideological enemies of Iran. We're still mad about Iran.

There are also elements of the US political right that love Israel for reasons that range from "I hate Muslims" to "it's part of my doomsday Christianity cult theology", but there's reasonable realpolitik reasons for an alliance with Israel.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 15:55

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

bulletsponge13 posted:

E- I'm not supporting either side, but it's hard not to find some sympathy for the people of Gaza; I feel the same way about Hamas as I did about the insurgents in Iraq: what else would we expect? Reminded me of that verse from the Tyler Childers song "Long Violent History".

I can understand, empathize and agree with taking up arms against an occupier. Resistance is a natural right. Where you lose me is the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants and deliberate targeting of civilians. That's not resistance, it's terrorism and a war crime. That isn't meant to handwave away what Israel is doing with its airstrikes and cutting off food, water and fuel to Gaza. Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands and I feel for the innocent Palestinians and Israeli citizens who will bear the punishment for their leaders' crimes.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:07

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

psydude posted:

What limited research has been done suggests that there's actually very little popular support for Hamas among Gazans, but it's not like they really have a choice there.

For their part, Hamas is likely hoping that Israel will overreact and launch a full invasion so they can rack up the IDF body count. And unfortunately, it seems like Israel is going to walk right into it.

Feels more and more like Hamas is shadow funded and controlled by BiBi in some way. This is simply too easy of a setup to get his genocide of the Gaza Strip.

yeah yeah i know this is impossible but gently caress what a bunch of cowinkydinks

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:12

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; I HAVE A MICROPENIS AND I WON'T REST UNTIL YOUR CHILDREN DIE FOR IT; Fun Shoe

bulletsponge13 posted:

The problem is, Fivemarks has a valid points.

Isreal has spent decades doing the EXACT same poo poo as Hamas, and it gets a public pass because they have better PR. The view must be applied across both sides. Otherwise, this turns into a Fox News version of the Iraq War. THEY set the rules of engagement over the years. Hamas should conduct themselves better, but they won't as long as they feel justified by their enemy.

Is it the exact same poo poo?

I think what Israel does is reprehensible, but is civilian casualties as a result of collateral damage from air strikes the same thing Hamas does? Hamas specifically chooses areas where there are Palestinian civilians to use as missile launch sites, munitions stores, meeting places, etc because it's a propaganda victory and a win for them if Israel chooses to air strike that target. And it seems to me that more often than not, Israel WARNS the civilians beforehand so they have time to evacuate.

So really, Hamas is just as culpable for those civilian deaths as Israel is. They're using them basically as human shields. And its a propaganda win for them to spread pictures of their dead and wounded. And there have been a gently caress ton of cases where Hamas uses staged and faked casualties as propaganda, too. Or outright lies. People in this thread wanna complain about Israel making poo poo up? That's Hamas' bread and butter. Spreading fake poo poo, reusing old photos, staging fake casualties, inflating casualty numbers, saying someone's a civilian when they were actually a member of Hamas. As bad as American media regurgitates the Israeli side of things, European and Middle Eastern media sure as gently caress does the same for Palestine.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's right to play the moral equivalence game and say that civilian casualties from air strikes are just as evil and barbaric and terroristic as suicide bombings and brutal massacres and mutilations.

This by no means excuses the cases where the Israelis actually do gun down civilians, especially the illegal "settlers". But those cases seem to be the exception, whereas civilians killed in air strikes seem to be the majority of the cases of civilians dying on the Palestinian side.

There is no good side in this conflict. At all. But I dont think equivocating the two is right. One is causing civilian death as a side effect and consequence. The other is purposefully causing civilian death with the express purpose of terrorizing a population.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:15

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

Crab Dad posted:

Feels more and more like Hamas is shadow funded and controlled by BiBi in some way. This is simply too easy of a setup to get his genocide of the Gaza Strip.

yeah yeah i know this is impossible but gently caress what a bunch of cowinkydinks

I doubt he personally orchestrated this attack, but his material support of Hamas in order to politically undermine any hope for Palestinian statehood is documented.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:18

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

Just gonna chime in that part of the reason Bibi and his allies are crippling the Israeli Supreme Court is because they're pissed at the amount of legal review and law of war compliance analysis the IAF has to do when planning their air strikes to meet their constitutional obligations to confirm to the rules of war. This government wants significantly less legal oversight and accountability over IDF operations.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:21

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; I HAVE A MICROPENIS AND I WON'T REST UNTIL YOUR CHILDREN DIE FOR IT; Fun Shoe

pantslesswithwolves posted:

I can understand, empathize and agree with taking up arms against an occupier. Resistance is a natural right. Where you lose me is the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants and deliberate targeting of civilians. That's not resistance, it's terrorism and a war crime. That isn't meant to handwave away what Israel is doing with its airstrikes and cutting off food, water and fuel to Gaza. Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands and I feel for the innocent Palestinians and Israeli citizens who will bear the punishment for their leaders' crimes.

Once again you post my exact opinion so much more succinctly and eloquently than I.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:23

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Bored As gently caress posted:

There is no good side in this conflict. At all. But I dont think equivocating the two is right. One is causing civilian death as a side effect and consequence. The other is purposefully causing civilian death with the express purpose of terrorizing a population.

No one on the Palestinian side would be fighting if Israel hadn't stolen their land, firstly.

Secondly, while Israel may not be attempting to kill Palestinians militarily most of the time, they do absolutely limit their access to food, water, power and medical supplies for the sake of a slow genocide that primarily affects civilians. Israel is absolutely causing shitloads of intentional civilian Palestinian deaths. Israeli troops also blast journalists reporting on their crimes blatantly and in cases like kids throwing rocks, decide to open fire with live ammo rather than just, say, backing off. You cannot say that Israel does not as a policy kill and injure Palestinian civilians, or at the very least display an extremely blatant disregard for their wellbeing.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

You've also got the issue that while media reporting from most sources would love to make it feel like the damage done to the two sides is roughly equivalent, or perhaps even worse for the Israelis, the truth is that both deaths and injuries are outsized concentrated among the Palestinians(note the linked statistics, sourced from the UN.). So really, I feel it very difficult to believe a narrative that Israel is desperately trying to avoid civilian casualties and yet are forced into them by dastardly Hamas tactics.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

The raw data is here if you'd like to look at it.

Bored As gently caress posted:

This by no means excuses the cases where the Israelis actually do gun down civilians, especially the illegal "settlers". But those cases seem to be the exception, whereas civilians killed in air strikes seem to be the majority of the cases of civilians dying on the Palestinian side.

Not to mention that settler violence seems to be, if not outright officially condoned, more or less tolerated and never really results in any punishments that I'm aware of. You don't see the IDF rolling out to protect Palestinians against settler paramilitary gangs.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:35

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

pantslesswithwolves posted:

I can understand, empathize and agree with taking up arms against an occupier. Resistance is a natural right. Where you lose me is the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants and deliberate targeting of civilians. That's not resistance, it's terrorism and a war crime. That isn't meant to handwave away what Israel is doing with its airstrikes and cutting off food, water and fuel to Gaza. Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands and I feel for the innocent Palestinians and Israeli citizens who will bear the punishment for their leaders' crimes.

This is 100% where I am with it.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 16:43

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Bored As gently caress posted:

Is it the exact same poo poo?

I think what Israel does is reprehensible, but is civilian casualties as a result of collateral damage from air strikes the same thing Hamas does? Hamas specifically chooses areas where there are Palestinian civilians to use as missile launch sites, munitions stores, meeting places, etc because it's a propaganda victory and a win for them if Israel chooses to air strike that target. And it seems to me that more often than not, Israel WARNS the civilians beforehand so they have time to evacuate.

So really, Hamas is just as culpable for those civilian deaths as Israel is. They're using them basically as human shields. And its a propaganda win for them to spread pictures of their dead and wounded. And there have been a gently caress ton of cases where Hamas uses staged and faked casualties as propaganda, too. Or outright lies. People in this thread wanna complain about Israel making poo poo up? That's Hamas' bread and butter. Spreading fake poo poo, reusing old photos, staging fake casualties, inflating casualty numbers, saying someone's a civilian when they were actually a member of Hamas. As bad as American media regurgitates the Israeli side of things, European and Middle Eastern media sure as gently caress does the same for Palestine.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's right to play the moral equivalence game and say that civilian casualties from air strikes are just as evil and barbaric and terroristic as suicide bombings and brutal massacres and mutilations.

This by no means excuses the cases where the Israelis actually do gun down civilians, especially the illegal "settlers". But those cases seem to be the exception, whereas civilians killed in air strikes seem to be the majority of the cases of civilians dying on the Palestinian side.

There is no good side in this conflict. At all. But I dont think equivocating the two is right. One is causing civilian death as a side effect and consequence. The other is purposefully causing civilian death with the express purpose of terrorizing a population.

Well, before this Hamas attack Israel has a history of rape and murder of civilians; bombing of protected targets; the purposeful murder of peaceful protesters; the refusal to warn people in Gaza of armed incursions and airstrikes; assassination of community, religious, and political leaders; shooting children 100 yards away for throwing rocks; kidnapping and torture of civilians; cutting off vital resources at will; caught on video using frags and lethal force on civilians in Gaza; Bombing critical infrastructure within Palestinian territories; violating their own laws and the laws of international accords they agreed to. That's just what they freely admit.

Israel military actions have been different from Hamas only in that they wear a uniform.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 17:13

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Yeah, its important to keep in mind: Both Hamas and IDF are bad, but the IDFs long goal and the Israeli governments goal has been the dissolution of Palestine and Gaza for decades. Anything giving them ammo to finally achieve that is exactly what they want.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 17:58

Muir: Sep 27, 2005; that's Doctor Brain to you

CommieGIR posted:

Yeah, its important to keep in mind: Both Hamas and IDF are bad, but the IDFs long goal and the Israeli governments goal has been the dissolution of Palestine and Gaza for decades. Anything giving them ammo to finally achieve that is exactly what they want.

Are you saying that Hamas doesn't want to dissolve the State of Israel?

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:19

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

The establishment of the Israeli and Egyptian blockade of Gaza was a result of the Hamas violently seizing power and dissolving the Palestinian Authority in Gaza, which was the internationally recognized governing body. The resulting security and humanitarian disasters were entirely Israel's fault, but most discussions seem to forget that there was a compelling event that prompted it in the first place.

Discussions around this topic are difficult because I think we're all conditioned to believe that everything must have a definitive "good" side and a definitive "bad" side. Dealing with the nuances and complexities of the historical and contemporary realities is exhausting.

psydude fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Oct 12, 2023

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:23

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; I HAVE A MICROPENIS AND I WON'T REST UNTIL YOUR CHILDREN DIE FOR IT; Fun Shoe

I think we can all agree that Hamas seizing power in Gaza has made life even more hellish for Gazans than before.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:24

Suicide Watch: Sep 8, 2009

CommieGIR posted:

Yeah, its important to keep in mind: Both Hamas and IDF are bad, but the IDFs long goal and the Israeli governments goal has been the dissolution of Palestine and Gaza for decades. Anything giving them ammo to finally achieve that is exactly what they want.

IDF is a citizen force that serves at the orders of the government. When fighting the regional wars of the 60s, and 70s, they were a legitimate armed force. Their policing actions later on in the occupied territories and Lebanon are very questionable.

IDF has plenty of leaders who go on to become moderate and liberal politicians in the Israeli government, mainly because everyone has to serve.

Not saying you�re wrong, I think it�s just more nuanced than that. Hard liners in both Palestinian and Israeli governments want this war to escalate. Civilians of both will suffer. Hamas is loving evil but they obviously don�t represent all Palestinians.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:26

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Suicide Watch posted:

IDF is a citizen force that serves at the orders of the government. When fighting the regional wars of the 60s, and 70s, they were a legitimate armed force. Their policing actions later on in the occupied territories and Lebanon are very questionable.

IDF has plenty of leaders who go on to become moderate and liberal politicians in the Israeli government, mainly because everyone has to serve.

Not saying you’re wrong, I think it’s just more nuanced than that. Hard liners in both Palestinian and Israeli governments want this war to escalate. Civilians of both will suffer. Hamas is loving evil but they obviously don’t represent all Palestinians.

Except the party in control of both sides is Extremist. From Bibi to Hamas.

To say there are some progressive elements ignores that they are not the ones in control. At all. That's not nuance. Bibi in Israel and Hamas in Gaza have spent a long time locking the more moderate voices out of power.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 18:42

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

If you or anyone you know feel the need to donate and want to feel confident the money is going to actual humanitarian aid, Doctors Without Borders is a solid choice.

I recently heard from a friend who used to work for an education nonprofit in Israel and Palestine and he spoke very highly of the MSF operations in Gaza.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:10

Suicide Watch: Sep 8, 2009

CommieGIR posted:

Except the party in control of both sides is Extremist. From Bibi to Hamas.

To say there are some progressive elements ignores that they are not the ones in control. At all. That's not nuance. Bibi in Israel and Hamas in Gaza have spent a long time locking the more moderate voices out of power.

Sure, but what is your message to the people within Israel who are locked out of power and trying to do something about it?

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:31

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

CommieGIR posted:

Except the party in control of both sides is Extremist. From Bibi to Hamas.

To say there are some progressive elements ignores that they are not the ones in control. At all. That's not nuance. Bibi in Israel and Hamas in Gaza have spent a long time locking the more moderate voices out of power.

I think the point of the nuance is that the IDF is not itself the source of the problem; I would label likud as being the closer analog to Hamas.

It's a notable distinction because gaining control of the IDF is a possible route to improve things, whereas the only route to improving things via likud or Hamas is destroying or marginalizing them as effective organizations.

Edit: to be clear I'm not minimizing the IDF's bad behavior, just saying it's lovely because of who controls it not because it's intrinsically lovely.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 19:43

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Jarmak posted:

I think the point of the nuance is that the IDF is not itself the source of the problem; I would label likud as being the closer analog to Hamas.

It's a notable distinction because gaining control of the IDF is a possible route to improve things, whereas the only route to improving things via likud or Hamas is destroying or marginalizing them as effective organizations.

Edit: to be clear I'm not minimizing the IDF's bad behavior, just saying it's lovely because of who controls it not because it's intrinsically lovely.

I think IDFs bad behavior is a cultural issue internal to their armed forces and encouraged by the Israeli state, not something distinct based on who is leading.

Suicide Watch posted:

Sure, but what is your message to the people within Israel who are locked out of power and trying to do something about it?

Dunno what to tell you man, but frankly protesting harder was the only thing that even slightly delayed the Israeli Justice Reform, which then went through anyways.

Its not something that the minority parties nor Israelis can really control - Israel is well on the path to a fascist state.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:14

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

CommieGIR posted:

I think IDFs bad behavior is a cultural issue internal to their armed forces and encouraged by the Israeli state, not something distinct based on who is leading.

Dunno what to tell you man, but frankly protesting harder was the only thing that even slightly delayed the Israeli Justice Reform, which then went through anyways.

Its not something that the minority parties nor Israelis can really control - Israel is well on the path to a fascist state.

Culture is heavily influenced and potentially changed by leadership. This is especially true in a situation of universal service where the culture doesn't reinforce itself through self-selection.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 20:38

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Jarmak posted:

Culture is heavily influenced and potentially changed by leadership. This is especially true in a situation of universal service where the culture doesn't reinforce itself through self-selection.

The change in leadership should've been when Bibi was pushed out previously.

He came back.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 21:19

Radical 90s Wizard: Aug 5, 2008; ~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~

Don't Ask posted:

Hey, gently caress you.

Civilians were intentionally murdered and abducted, elderly and children alike. They were targeted at home, outside, in their cars, at a music festival, in the fields, and everywhere they could be. Those that were able to lock themselves in a safe room were burned out. Dozens if not hundreds were abducted, including elderly grandmothers and infants.

Please don't post more hezbollah funded propaganda to try and refute this.

Also gently caress you again.

This is the sort of poo poo I honestly don't get. Because yea, any civ deaths are awful, but what do you think is constantly happening in Gaza ?
Fuckin go look at any of the footage on Al Jazeera right now, entire blocks are getting obliterated, and guess what, there's a shitload of civilians in there getting blown apart too.

Israel is outright stating their intention to annihilate Gaza and everyone in it right now(and is actively pursuing that goal), and the idea that that is somehow justified is just hosed to me.

I find it really hard to comprehend the level of moral outrage going on in posts like above, and in the current media narrative, because it so blatantly ignores one entire side of this poo poo. It seems to me to be very clearly saying that Palestinian civilians don't actually matter, and if people try to say otherwise or point it out, they get attacked too.

Gip usually doesn't get like this, and it's mostly not now, thank gently caress. Tbh I dont even know where I was going with this, I guess I'm just struggling to comprehend this entire horrifying clusterfuck. Just dont jump down each others' throats I guess. gently caress.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:22

Pine Cone Jones: Dec 6, 2009; You throw me the acorn, I throw you the whip!

It's a thing I feel desensitized to at this point, which is kind of sad. I remember seeing the aftermath of a suicide bombing in Iraq and just thinking "I guess this is just how it is" and it becomes background noise. Then getting angry at people back at home for how selfish I felt they were, but at this point it's just static and I try not to think about it.

Thinking about it more, it's kind of like mass shootings and whatever else, people just die because of a bad roll of the dice and I try not to think about it because I can only handle so much existential dread at once.

Pine Cone Jones fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Oct 12, 2023

# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:26

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

This is the sort of poo poo I honestly don't get. Because yea, any civ deaths are awful, but what do you think is constantly happening in Gaza ?
Fuckin go look at any of the footage on Al Jazeera right now, entire blocks are getting obliterated, and guess what, there's a shitload of civilians in there getting blown apart too.

Israel is outright stating their intention to annihilate Gaza and everyone in it right now(and is actively pursuing that goal), and the idea that that is somehow justified is just hosed to me.

I find it really hard to comprehend the level of moral outrage going on in posts like above, and in the current media narrative, because it so blatantly ignores one entire side of this poo poo. It seems to me to be very clearly saying that Palestinian civilians don't actually matter, and if people try to say otherwise or point it out, they get attacked too.

Gip usually doesn't get like this, and it's mostly not now, thank gently caress. Tbh I dont even know where I was going with this, I guess I'm just struggling to comprehend this entire horrifying clusterfuck. Just dont jump down each others' throats I guess. gently caress.

yeah this is what the israeli air force is posting right now. this poo poo is truly a humanitarian tragedy all around

https://x.com/IAFsite/status/1712484101763342772?s=20

# ? Oct 12, 2023 22:29

My Spirit Otter: Jun 15, 2006; CANADA DOESN'T GET PENS LIKE THIS

SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made American Products. Bitch.

i dont understand how anyone could look at those pictures and be proud of what happened there.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 23:17

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

6,000 bombs. How do you even drop that many on such a small area.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 23:33

notwithoutmyanus: Mar 17, 2009

Unfortunately I expect this to get worse from here. We have hamas terrorism being met with an even greater violent response. The situation does not present the options of peace, so all we're going to see is war.

# ? Oct 12, 2023 23:50