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Hadlock posted:I'm continually amazed that we can produce tens of millions of oled TVs, hundreds of millions of cell phone devices that also double as earthquake early warning devices, etc etc, but when it comes to critical defense infrastructure they order in lots of 2-8 at astronomical prices, rather than buy 100x at virtually the same price My understanding is that a lot of this is simply to keep the production lines open, since ramping them up if someone actually attacked the US or forced a major crisis for the US, is a lot easier than starting them from scratch, and the suppliers have no motivation to keep the production lines open if there's not at least a constant dribble of orders coming in. Of course, this theory has been somewhat challenged by the fact that when Ukraine was attacked, scaling up did not quite happen quickly or efficiently. Whether that's because it couldn't happen or because no one wanted to pay for it since they didn't consider Ukraine critically important, who can say.
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Oct 30, 2024 14:08
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The military-industrial complex isn't in the business of producing weapons and materiel, it's in the business of receiving money, and has expanded and specialised in maximising the amount of money received for the minimum spent.
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Oct 30, 2024 16:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The military-industrial complex isn't in the business of producing weapons and materiel, it's in the business of receiving money, and has expanded and specialised in maximising the amount of money received for the minimum spent. i have absolutely zero knowledge of what goes into a javelin but it wouldn't surprise me if the non labor materials cost is well less than $10,000 despite the latest cost being ~$105,000 ea per "missilethreat.csis.org" whatever hokey wrong site that is in that same article they're quoting $514,000 for a lightweight version seems like if they were assembled in volume rather than totally by hand the unit cost would approach that of an RPG7 or whatever, but there's no market pressure or order volume it's all stupid
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Oct 30, 2024 20:05
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If the massive assembly line was set up, complete with skilled workers, smooth flowing supply lines and a steady stream of purchase orders, then yes. Yes it would be possible to make them a lot cheaper and in much higher numbers.
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Oct 30, 2024 20:08
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Hadlock posted:i have absolutely zero knowledge of what goes into a javelin They aren’t the same at all really in form or function to RPGs. We previously built a couple hundred per month and now build about 250-300 per month.
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Oct 30, 2024 20:17
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What percentage of the list price is the, "not selling to unauthorized customers," charge.
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Oct 30, 2024 20:37
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Hadlock posted:[...]"missilethreat.csis.org" whatever hokey wrong site that is I'm stupid and can't tell if you're being funny haha. CSIS is about as legitimate as it gets. They're georgetowns big world think-tank ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Oct 30, 2024 |
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Oct 30, 2024 20:38
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yeah I'm sure it's more complex, rpg7 afaik is what it says on the tin, rocket propelled grenade that said it wouldn't surprise me at all if the javelin had an ARM7 cpu and talks to it's accessory components via standard communication protocols like i2c or pwm and could be replaced with a $35 raspberry pi if it hasn't already. i guess units built after 2020 run with passive cooling. firing rockers is dangerous and complex but you probably don't need a Pentium 9 @ 7ghz to do it in 2024
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Oct 30, 2024 20:42
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yes you do
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Oct 30, 2024 20:43
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habituallyred posted:What percentage of the list price is the, "not selling to unauthorized customers," charge. I mean a fair chunk of any defence purchase. You are telling a company 'design a totally new product, also I am the only person allowed to buy this product plus customers I specifically approve'. Also I'm only going to give you an order for x now, which actually in a couple of years might be x minus some amount. If you do that you gotta pay for operating costs and everything that goes with it.
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Oct 30, 2024 21:51
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the javelin's ordinance is not particularly special, but the projectile being told exactly where to go is what makes the difference, so the computer being good is what makes the weapon good and therefore yes it does in fact need that
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Oct 30, 2024 21:54
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Fire and forget ATGMs that are usable by dismounted infantry, even in 2024, are still kind of niche and built by only a handful of nations.
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Oct 30, 2024 21:55
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I'm stupid and can't tell if you're being funny haha. CSIS is about as legitimate as it gets. They're georgetowns big world think-tank I didn't even know what state Georgetown was in until about ten seconds ago "missilethreat" sounds like, I dunno probably not the subdomain i would have picked for a serious xyz thing for a prestigious university, instead of something that might be shared with a 1980s arcade game maybe that program hails from that era
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Oct 30, 2024 22:02
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mlmp08 posted:They aren’t the same at all really in form or function to RPGs. We previously built a couple hundred per month and now build about 250-300 per month. javelin is to an rpg7 what a modern computer is to an abacus Hadlock posted:i have absolutely zero knowledge of what goes into a javelin but it wouldn't surprise me if the non labor materials cost is well less than $10,000 despite the latest cost being ~$105,000 ea per "missilethreat.csis.org" whatever hokey wrong site that is lol
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Oct 30, 2024 22:13
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Hadlock posted:i have absolutely zero knowledge  have you considered posting less confidently?
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Oct 31, 2024 08:03
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Hadlock posted:"missilethreat" sounds like, I dunno probably not the subdomain i would have picked for a serious xyz thing for a prestigious university, instead of something that might be shared with a 1980s arcade game maybe that program hails from that era I just want to say that, as someone who works for an org like that, that name is 100% in line with expected standards.
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Oct 31, 2024 13:18
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Xakura posted:
that's how I post. I've been trying to preface my posts with equally bold disclaimers such as that one. the disclaimer equivalent of "i know nothing about this topic" seems adequate also posting inherently wrong things is usually the best way to find out the comprehensive knowledgebase of the forums on a particular topic, my posting style isn't a complete accident
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Oct 31, 2024 22:48
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Hadlock posted:my posting style isn't a complete accident Or is it? Maybe you've just hit information gathering gold while digging for pyrite.
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Nov 1, 2024 08:43
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Jokes on you I was just posting wrong information and pretending to be stupid to get an answer out of the thread instead of just asking questions like a normal person. I am very smart.
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Nov 4, 2024 16:58
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ranbo das posted:Jokes on you I was just posting wrong information and pretending to be stupid to get an answer out of the thread instead of just asking questions like a normal person. Its a well known fact of the forums that asking questions gets ignored but saying the wrong thing gets you dogpiled with goons correcting you to prove how smqrt they are. GIP mostly doesn't do that tho, so its a lovely excuse and violates the lurk more rule
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Nov 4, 2024 17:23
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That's not an SA exclusive thing, but it doesn't make the threads better in any case.
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Nov 5, 2024 04:08
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RFC2324 posted:Its a well known fact of the forums that asking questions gets ignored but saying the wrong thing gets you dogpiled with goons correcting you to prove how smqrt they are. This is known as "Godwin's Law".
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Nov 6, 2024 02:40
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Israel has officially announced the northern Gaza Strip is to be cleansed.quote:sraeli ground forces are getting closer to “the complete evacuation” of northern Gaza and residents will not be allowed to return home, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has said, in what appears to be the first official acknowledgment from Israel it is systematically removing Palestinians from the area.
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Nov 6, 2024 23:45
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Man, that timing sure is coincidental.
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Nov 7, 2024 00:08
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I thought the same.
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Nov 7, 2024 00:10
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With Gallant gone and Trump back, Bibi is free to pursue his ''battle against barbarism''. Iran has promised to retaliate after the last Israeli strike on their territory, it will be interesting how Israel will respond to it now that they have no one holding them back. Things are going to get spicy.
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Nov 7, 2024 06:47
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Dick Ripple posted:With Gallant gone and Trump back, Bibi is free to pursue his ''battle against barbarism''. They were not being held back in any meaningful way.
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Nov 7, 2024 09:26
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Cugel the Clever posted:Israel has officially announced the northern Gaza Strip is to be cleansed. Vox had a "worst case scenario" video they published around 6am Pacific time the article you linked is like item #6 of 9 it was kind of impressive to see that domino fall in like, i dunno, 8-15 hours after it was clear Trump had won sets a pretty grim precedent, hopefully not one that continues
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Nov 7, 2024 11:09
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They were not being held back in any meaningful way. I've been seeing it suggested elsewhere that somehow this is not coincidental with the victory of President Elect "What Is Taking Netanyahu So Long?" I suppose the plausible deniability is going to be a fairly common moral backstop we're going to see for the next...we'll poo poo, who knows how long.
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Nov 7, 2024 13:09
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I suspect, and obviously I can’t provide any evidence whatsoever, that as much as Israel seemed to have been given permission to strike out in any direction they pleased they were still held back from going as far as fast as they would have wanted.
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Nov 7, 2024 13:20
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Tiny Timbs posted:I suspect, and obviously I can’t provide any evidence whatsoever, that as much as Israel seemed to have been given permission to strike out in any direction they pleased they were still held back from going as far as fast as they would have wanted. I suspect you are right. Even if there was no official back-channel restraint, Netanyahu et al would at least have known there was a "too far" that they could go. Not anymore. Of course, as was said, this is all plausibly deniable as copium and I'm sure this will get SYQ'ed.
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Nov 7, 2024 14:37
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The IDF is currently organizing a rescue mission to Amsterdam after some number of Israeli soccer fans apparently assaulted a pro-Palestinian demonstrator and the local Arab community organized to kick the poo poo in of the entire 3000-some fans visiting. Israel is using the P word.
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Nov 8, 2024 05:14
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Cugel the Clever posted:The IDF is currently organizing a rescue mission to Amsterdam after some number of Israeli soccer fans apparently assaulted a pro-Palestinian demonstrator and the local Arab community organized to kick the poo poo in of the entire 3000-some fans visiting. Israel is using the P word. link also uh what is the p word? i'm assuming it's not pig?
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Nov 8, 2024 05:17
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Persecution? Like Danforth Keaton? And what does SYQ stand for? I'm seeing it a lot and I have no ideas.
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Nov 8, 2024 05:19
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Leave posted:Persecution? Like Danforth Keaton? you mean buster 
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Nov 8, 2024 05:22
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:link also uh what is the p word? i'm assuming it's not pig? Pogrom. Leave posted:Persecution? Like Danforth Keaton? Source your quotes.
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Nov 8, 2024 05:25
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:link also uh what is the p word? i'm assuming it's not pig? loving around: quote:A tense atmosphere and unrest filled Dam Square in Amsterdam as hundreds of fans for the Israeli football club Maccabi Tel Aviv surrounded the National Monument. Around ten individuals were taken into custody for various offenses, like disturbing the peace, before the Dam emptied out around 5:20 p.m., police said. Fireworks were also set off, and rioting broke out when several other groups of people chanted pro-Palestinian slogans at the Israeli fans, an ANP reporter confirmed. https://x.com/ShehabAgency/status/1854737821711347740 Finding out quote:Violent attacks against Maccabi Tel Aviv fans continue to take place in Amsterdam following a soccer match between Maccabi and Ajax on Thursday evening.
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Nov 8, 2024 05:30
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couple of things 1) the netherlands is FULL of immigrants particularly from the middle east 2) THEY WENT INTO A FOREIGN COUNTRY AND STARTED poo poo 3) THEY hosed AROUND 4) THEY FOUND OUT 5) ahahahahahahahhaahhahaahhaahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahaha
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Nov 8, 2024 05:32
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Israel invading the Netherlands was not on my November 2024 Blatant Escalations bingo card
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Nov 8, 2024 05:32
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Midjack posted:Source your quotes. How the hell can I do that, I asked a question
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Nov 8, 2024 05:34
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