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Yeah coded messages are a little annoying but I’m not feeling like the game is broken or anything
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May 18, 2024 19:17
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Nutsack Rangoon posted:FoS claimed tracker but no results? Think it's best that gets disclosed. I'm not disclosing my target because if they took no action, I basically auto-track their next one.
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May 18, 2024 19:17
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Hal Incandenza posted:Yeah coded messages are a little annoying but I’m not feeling like the game is broken or anything What I am complaining about is merely that it opens the door to that same game-disrupting behavior the rule exists to prevent. Our "social contract" about that is really strong, but I still can't be totally comfortable with a format where the reason we are not doing things because it's the best way to win, but because we are choosing not to end the game in a boring way. I mean, I'm exaggerating the degree to which town would automatically win, but still. It's like, if we gave every player the ability to privately submit an action that ends the game with their victory. For the sake of playing a mafia game none of the players would probably hit the button. But knowing that you are giving up a surefire way to win the game kind of ruins my drive to seek success in the game. But also like, whatever, people aren't even using code that much I just kinda wanted to say my piece.
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May 18, 2024 19:38
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Johnny Keats posted:What I am complaining about is merely that it opens the door to that same game-disrupting behavior the rule exists to prevent. Our "social contract" about that is really strong, but I still can't be totally comfortable with a format where the reason we are doing things is not because it's the best way to win, but because we are choosing not to end the game in a boring way. I mean, I'm exaggerating the degree to which town would automatically win, but still. It's like, if we gave every player the ability to privately submit an action that ends the game with their victory. For the sake of playing a mafia game none of the players would probably hit the button. But knowing that you are giving up a surefire way to win the game kind of ruins my drive to seek success in the game. Maf edit
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May 18, 2024 19:41
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Nutsack, why are you mad at me?
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May 18, 2024 19:42
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Also does absolutely nobody want to comment on Spacebanito?
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May 18, 2024 19:43
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Johnny Keats posted:Oh I skimmed EOD1. Was that it though? I'm trying to get a handle on him and I trust you Yuming you missed my followup about Cube
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May 18, 2024 19:44
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After considering the claims ##vote Yuming, still considering Cube though, it's a little convenient that his claim both explains the result, provides a reason his vig will never trigger and a reason for him to stay safe from night kills all game.
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May 18, 2024 19:45
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Illusionis posted:it's a little convenient that his claim both explains the result, provides a reason his vig will never trigger and a reason for him to stay safe from night kills all game. This was also my first impression
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May 18, 2024 19:47
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I think I'm leaning slightly town on Spacebanito, because he's participating and posting his reads and I feel like I can see the reasoning behind them
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May 18, 2024 19:49
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Johnny Keats posted:Also does absolutely nobody want to comment on Spacebanito? There's not really anything to comment on, just you going "he scum"
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May 18, 2024 19:53
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Illusionis posted:After considering the claims ##vote Yuming, still considering Cube though, it's a little convenient that his claim both explains the result, provides a reason his vig will never trigger and a reason for him to stay safe from night kills all game. I found cubes claim to be way more suspicious than anything yuming has done, not sure why you’d land there tbh
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May 18, 2024 19:59
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I have talked at length about why I'm fairly sure Yuming is scum
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May 18, 2024 20:00
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Johnny Keats posted:Also does absolutely nobody want to comment on Spacebanito? I have found I’ve generally been on the same page as spacabanito, at least today. I did think his snipey response to you saying he’s scum sort of pinged me but that about it
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May 18, 2024 20:01
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Johnny Keats posted:Nutsack, why are you mad at me? I was frustrated because I I wanted discussion to be about the game at hand and not the morality of mechanics. You and Cube do rub me wrong wrt code stuff. Cube especially since I made it clear to him that breaking it wouldn't be to the advantage of the town but he still wants to go ahead with it for reasons regardless.
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May 18, 2024 20:03
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Illusionis posted:After considering the claims ##vote Yuming, still considering Cube though, it's a little convenient that his claim both explains the result, provides a reason his vig will never trigger and a reason for him to stay safe from night kills all game. The Cube claim is really convenient. I like this and didn't think about it that way previously.
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May 18, 2024 20:05
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I've had a town read on Spacebanito as well
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May 18, 2024 20:06
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I legit can't tell if Keats is deliberately trying to muddy the waters by generating stuff he can point to himself, including the just IMPRESSIVELY vacuous argument of "My actions weren't scum, if I were scum I'd be doing a MUCH better job", or if he's just trolling and acting up for reasons that baffle me. Scum or bad town, anyway, but not top of my priorities. I stand by TM as probably my top vote, for reasons that I've stated and that haven't really been refuted meaningfully ##vote TM
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May 18, 2024 20:11
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Illusionis posted:After considering the claims ##vote Yuming, still considering Cube though, it's a little convenient that his claim both explains the result, provides a reason his vig will never trigger and a reason for him to stay safe from night kills all game. I just cannot read Yuming as anything other than Town, and don't really get the argument against? Can you explain?
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May 18, 2024 20:11
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Opopanax posted:There's not really anything to comment on, just you going "he scum" He has posts, doesn't he?
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May 18, 2024 20:17
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I didn't ask for comments on me.
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May 18, 2024 20:17
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Also to clarify, Keats has been low content, doing little more than saying "yes, me too" or making random accusations then backing off the moment he's asked for further comment(or doubling down and insisting that asking for further comment is somehow scum, but then also getting mad when nobody engages, as if that's not a transparently lose/lose that stands only to make him seem more legitimate regardless) What are the odds of a Jester, now that I think about it?
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May 18, 2024 20:18
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Johnny Keats posted:He has posts, doesn't he? "Make my case for me, so I'm not to blame later when it's wrong"
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May 18, 2024 20:21
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Spacebanito posted:IMPRESSIVELY vacuous argument of "My actions weren't scum, if I were scum I'd be doing a MUCH better job" Wrong, and I will explain the difference to thread. The bad argument you are referencing usually goes something like this: quote:Accuser: "Here's my case on you. You hard defended this flipped scum, pushed flipped town, and pestered the cop into claiming so they got nightkilled." The distinctive aspect of this argument is that it is used to defend against posting that appears to advance scum's agenda on the surface, usually in hindsight of a flip. The scum player specifically defends their skill at disguising their motivations when posting as scum, against an accuser who claims they were not disguising their agenda. Let's look at the present case. You accused me of being scum for one specific post I made, and I guess also the little bit of context that I ignored your question after. What I was doing in this post Johnny Keats posted:I'm not even voting him nor pushed him outside of one post. Which yes I get that is the reason he is calling me suspicious but I also find it silly that his attention is stuck on that post considering it does not appear that I intended to move forward with the suspicion in a way that'd benefit me as scum. If Space is insinuating I said it to appear like I'm contributing, I have this to say: I can tell the difference between contributing, and the post I made. If I were trying to look like I was contributing that was a massive flub.
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May 18, 2024 20:37
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Space you really love to make up things I'm saying, but let's get back to mafia, kay?
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May 18, 2024 20:38
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Spacebanito posted:(or doubling down and insisting that asking for further comment is somehow scum, but then also getting mad when nobody engages, as if that's not a transparently lose/lose that stands only to make him seem more legitimate regardless) 1) not why I called you scum 2) wasn't mad 3) I might react different to the person I called scum than to other people, wild
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May 18, 2024 20:44
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Spacebanito, do you have thoughts on Opop?
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May 18, 2024 20:58
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I ask because you seem rather in lockstep with him despite not interacting publicly
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May 18, 2024 21:01
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I find it tough to get a real read on Opop or Sandwolf because of their apparent beef making things less clear to me. By and large though, I have reason to believe his implications of being a doctor, so I'm inclined to give his arguments a bit more weight, plus he's been contributing content and having arguments and opinions of his own, which maybe I get too hung up on, but more information and more stated opinions and thoughts are broadly good for town and bad for scum, so I find silence, or regurgitating other people's opinions, one of the most suspicious things
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May 18, 2024 21:09
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Phone posting so I won't be able to go and dig up relevant quotes. If I manage to get wifi set up for my laptop ill try to do that. ##vote Cube Cube has been off this game: * His late D1 placeholder vote on Hal. * The series of posts he made after coming back to the thread on D1 before the deadline. Cube got multiple people mixed up in those posts, such that he voted the wong person at least once. * Calling my town read on Hal a town-clear (I think it was Cube who did this, but I could be misremebering this point.) * Cubes stated belief in FoS's joke claim of bulletproof doc/seer. * His claim. As others have said it feels designed to prevent suspucion. * Lesser point but Opop has claimed to have protected me last night, and there was no kill. I wasn't the only one casting suspicion on Cube, but I was one of the loudest at EoD1. I do actually agree with yuming that Cube in this game doesn't resemble his recent scum game in Hatoful mafia (and she should know, they were scum together in that game). But this also doesn't resemble the town Cube I saw Tarot mafia. I think someone rolled scum twice in a row and tried to switch things up.
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May 18, 2024 21:24
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Keats' complaints about the codes messages read like frustrated town. Hal I still think is town. Less convinced just because of my earlier point about volunteering for an investigation, and more general vibes. I see where Illu is coming from regarding yuming's responses, but it is only leading me to suspicion so far, not conclusions. And I don't know if I can see scum yuming claiming miller.
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May 18, 2024 21:29
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Spacebanito posted:I just cannot read Yuming as anything other than Town, and don't really get the argument against? Can you explain? I mean I already explained it, over several posts, maybe it's not the clearest case since 2 people have now asked what it's about, but I'm not gonna just rewrite it. One other thing I'd like to call attention to about Yuming's scumminess this game is that she's pretty sparse on suspicions and scum calls, d1 it's Fancy from pretty early on, until swapping to me, no mention of consideration for Fancy's investigative claim at all even. Then today it's on me with nothing, but a mention of a gut ping on Sand and then declaring preference for FoS out of the ecco-gunsmith targets. Otherwise it's all townreads which feels to me like 1. She's having a hard time making cases on people as scum, 2. She doesn't seem like she's really scumhunting as much as declaring targets and then just focusing on them.
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May 18, 2024 21:29
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Hal Incandenza posted:Sorry I have had tons of family come into town for the weekend and I have not had time for mafia. You know you've been flying real low to the ground stealth mode, could you open up your reasons for these reads or anybody else?
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May 18, 2024 21:59
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Phone posting now On reflection, I don't like keats stink on code stuff. As a day action, I brought him in on the codes yesterday. He was not interested. His moralizing on it didn't occur when codes were 1st used, when he was first brought in, but rather now over 24h later. Imo town reaction to getting any tool, mechanic, etc is to try and find a way to use it to greatest effect in favor of town. Keats instead has been away thinking about how to justify not using it. I specifically brought him in b3acuse he hinted at visiting yuming a icould provide a channel for him to communicate more to her. Moral grandstanding I think is a way to stay clear of getting locked down in any sort of claim and undermine a tool that he admits is beneficial to the town. ##vote keats I like keats, illu, Moritz for scumteam atm
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May 18, 2024 22:06
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I’m not really seeing Illu as very scummy anymore. More like town with a strong personal feeling. I disagree Keats frustration with codes belies a townie thinking, I think it could just as easily be scum frustrated that there is something they cannot interfere with. FoS has also been much quieter D2 compared to D1, I’d do that. Cube has also been striking me negatively. In summation, I’d vote within Keats Cube and FoS
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May 18, 2024 22:26
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I agree about Illu, I think both Illu and yuming feel pretty town right now. I don't agree with the amount of focus being put into Keat's opinions on the codes, though that's mostly because I think it's a null tell(It feels equally likely to be a town, scum, or just a personal grievance motivation, so it feels like a waste to me to stare at it to try and make an answer happen) I do think silence and non-contribution are indicators, though, which is why Keats stays on my list next to TM
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May 18, 2024 22:43
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My general thoughts: Cube remains my top vote; they're scum overreaching with their role claim and weird fake assumptions about a whole-game gimmick because they got caught by sand's echocop. I'm reading through keats/spaceburrito's bizarre conflict and it feels very forced from keats. I'm weak town lean on SB I think keats' case doesn't make sense and seems designed more to have a beef for content than actually convince anyone. Could be distancing, could be keats faking content, could just be keats getting a weird bug up their rear end; it's happened before. I could see scum there but I think cube is a way better choice for eliminating someone inside the investigation. Spork is my third major scum candidate for their end of d1 voting behavior. Their case on cube feels... a little over-explained kind of out of nowhere for someone who normally makes shorter posts than that? Opop is a hard null and I kinda suspect will remain that way since their town play is just as lurky and unhelpful to town as their scum play. Dude always plays like a survivor. Yuming is a firm town read. I just saw their scum play in the last game I ran and even when scum was under minimal pressure almost all of their posts were to the effect of "hi!!" ->two hours later->"i'll have thoughts later!!"->four hours later->repeat. Illu's reads feel like wrong town from someone who hasn't seen yuming playing scum lately. I'm working under the assumption of townwolf for the result and I think that is largely supported by their posting. I think if scum was playing games with a fake result they'd be harping on about it much harder rather than they to scumhunt. I suspect we have lurking scum somewhere in TMor, Hal, or Nutsack but I don't really have a strong enough feeling to hazard a guess on them.
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May 18, 2024 22:46
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Sandwolf posted:I’m not really seeing Illu as very scummy anymore. More like town with a strong personal feeling. lol
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May 18, 2024 22:48
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Might vote space for tunnelling my rear end tbh Feels like some players are missing in the Convo tho?
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May 18, 2024 22:56
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In general it’s seemed kind of a quiet game?
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May 18, 2024 23:08
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