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yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
Vig I save it for later when I have stronger reads.

Cop Cube. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a strong, correct read on him.

Mason Rangoon cos long time no see ! !

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yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
Okay so let’s talk Fancy.

When I made my claim this is his initial reaction ^^above

Next, a quick hit of calling Cube and I scum together.

Jokey response to getting voted.

Seems like he was floating a vote on me but then backed off and hasn’t really engaged with me directly. Scummy.

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
Floating the idea of voting me is a better way to word it.

Like he was winding up but didn’t see the support and then went back to ~lol joke phase~

Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

yuming posted:

Okay so let’s talk Fancy.

When I made my claim this is his initial reaction ^^above

Next, a quick hit of calling Cube and I scum together.

Jokey response to getting voted.

Seems like he was floating a vote on me but then backed off and hasn’t really engaged with me directly. Scummy.

Any thoughts on them claiming an investigative role out the gate?

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.
Illusionis and Fancy both seem fairly suspect. The immediate investigate claim is actually one of the things I feel is a null tell, because regardless of being town or scum, it's a clumsy move.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Spacebanito posted:

Illusionis and Fancy both seem fairly suspect. The immediate investigate claim is actually one of the things I feel is a null tell, because regardless of being town or scum, it's a clumsy move.

I agree they both feel kinda scummy

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Nutsack Rangoon posted:

Mostly fueled by decade all memories:

She's a strong player that attracts NKs and actions. Feels like a way a to get ahead of not getting NK'd or investigated for a player that doesn't feel comfortable being scum.

Also, imo, the yuming play for flipping miller should be to play a good game and likely get NK'd.

Ok Sonic (because you are hogging all the hedge, here)

Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

Opopanax posted:

Ok Sonic (because you are hogging all the hedge, here)

I don't really see how you're reading this is as a hedge?

SporkChan
Oct 20, 2010

One day I will proofread my posts well, but today is not that day.

Spacebanito posted:

Illusionis and Fancy both seem fairly suspect. The immediate investigate claim is actually one of the things I feel is a null tell, because regardless of being town or scum, it's a clumsy move.

I disagree. Both have spurred the thread to action, Illu with VCM and Fancy with the claim. I think spurring conversation during a slow D1 is a plus for town. Scum want to sit back and follow the thread.

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Nutsack Rangoon posted:

Any thoughts on them claiming an investigative role out the gate?
I took it with a grain of salt. While he was really specific, the meta these days is many players make claims early to gauge reactions.

I think his reaction to my claim stood out.

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.

SporkChan posted:

I disagree. Both have spurred the thread to action, Illu with VCM and Fancy with the claim. I think spurring conversation during a slow D1 is a plus for town. Scum want to sit back and follow the thread.

Spurring conversation with a fake claim isn't helpful though, and neither would making a true claim like that actually help town, since if it is a true claim, it just makes them an N1 target and scum are the only ones who would reasonably know that the claim is 'true' (at least the alignment part)

CubicalSucrose
Jan 1, 2013

Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

##vote FoS

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017

Long time no see.
Who said anything about a fake claim

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017

Long time no see.
Lots of votes being thrown around with no reasoning given

Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

yuming posted:

I took it with a grain of salt. While he was really specific, the meta these days is many players make claims early to gauge reactions.

I think his reaction to my claim stood out.

What's the play after? Just "haha it was to make things happen D1?"

Pains me to know the way I knew the game has changed.. please just don't tell me lumpenlists have fallen out of favor..

Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

yuming posted:

I took it with a grain of salt. While he was really specific, the meta these days is many players make claims early to gauge reactions.

I think his reaction to my claim stood out.

Also, I guess, do you do this too?

Illusionis
Dec 12, 2011

Hal Incandenza posted:

Vig Sandwolf before he vigs me
Investigate no one because investigations are not cool man
Mason nutsack probably so we can talk about how people think he’s a new player

yuming posted:

Vig I save it for later when I have stronger reads.

Cop Cube. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a strong, correct read on him.

Mason Rangoon cos long time no see ! !

These cop-outs get a strong hmmmm

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Illusionis posted:

These cop-outs get a strong hmmmm

##vote Illusionis

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017

Long time no see.
Just vote someone, no justification necessary, have to make sure vote pattern analysis post flip is as garbage as possible

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.
My suspicions to Illusionis are definitely building. Not inclined to actually drop a vote yet, but as it stands that's where I'd be.

I find the idea that lying about your role D1 is standard Townie play in the meta, but admit it has been a long while since I played last so it's possible. I'm with Rangoon though, what does that move look like D2?

The D1 claim of being an investigative role has four outcomes. If you're town and telling the truth, you give good info D2, die N2 without doctor intervention, and that assuming you're able to convince people, and that scum don't axe you N1. This is a bad play, it seems to me.

If you're town and lying, D2 leads to you needing to provide information you don't have, which I shouldn't need to explain why is a bad play.

If you're scum, a D1 claim like this has much better results for you, since it primes you for a later bussing, and you actually do have the needed info of who is and isn't scum to be able to give the needed info D2 to keep people's eyes off you.

Talking out my reasoning like this I think I've convinced myself that the Inv claim was very suspicious, not a null tell like I said.

Aside from that, I haven't weighed in on yuming but I'll say I think the Miller claim is legit, because the conversation around it is too specific and genuine. If it isn't true, it's an absolutely excellent forgery

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.
Also the reactions to D1 voting don't fill me with a ton of faith either, but that's more feeling than data

Illusionis
Dec 12, 2011
Lying role claim on d1 is far from meta, there's just a few people who like doing it

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Spacebanito posted:

Also the reactions to D1 voting don't fill me with a ton of faith either, but that's more feeling than data

There are (probably) only 3 scum, so it’s very very crucial you don’t put bad faith motivations over everyone. Find the folks who are trying to exist in between the real opinions.

Illusionis
Dec 12, 2011
As for Fancy claiming d1 is just something they have decided is a good idea to do, so I wouldn't consider the claiming itself really indicative of anything

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.
All fair points, and part of why I'm not actually voting yet, just kind of voicing feelings and the evidence I have, to try and build a bigger picture.

And with regards to people's prior game history/tendencies, I can't speak to it one way or the other but it goes in the information pile

Johnny Keats
Jan 24, 2023

by Fluffdaddy
Usually when an investigative role claims, they are not killed that night. It does however make it feel like (for the player with the role) their results are slightly less dependable though

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Nutsack Rangoon posted:

I don't really see how you're reading this is as a hedge?

You don't see how "I think yuming claimed Miller because she is scum or because she's town but also I'm suspicious of the claim" is hedging?

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Nutsack Rangoon posted:

Also, I guess, do you do this too?
No, I am a stingy claimer I think. Though I have successfully gotten killed late game as VT by pretending to be the doc.

Lumpen lists are still a thing. :sun:

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
Tell me more!

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance

Illusionis posted:

These cop-outs get a strong hmmmm
This post gets a strong hmmmm

##vote Illu

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
No one is ever around after my girls’ bedtime :qq:

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Hi yuming

CubicalSucrose
Jan 1, 2013

Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

yuming posted:

Tell me more!

Seems like scum.

yuming
Feb 26, 2008

dance dance dance
Hi!

Have you played with spacebanito before? They seem v earnest read:town to me.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

CubicalSucrose posted:

Seems like scum.

That's no way to treat the local bulletproof seer/vig

Spacebanito
Dec 4, 2009

Die thou unsung.
I can answer that more quickly, I haven't played on SA for like, a decade, haha

Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

Opopanax posted:

You don't see how "I think yuming claimed Miller because she is scum or because she's town but also I'm suspicious of the claim" is hedging?

Where ddi I say or if she's town? I think claiming miller from the rip is a bad look and everything in that post is about how it is.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
Okay nutsack is town

CubicalSucrose
Jan 1, 2013

Phantom my Opera and call me South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut

Nutsack Rangoon posted:

Where ddi I say or if she's town? I think claiming miller from the rip is a bad look and everything in that post is about how it is.

For a while, the SA Mafia wiki mentioned that "Claiming Miller immediately D1" is the good-and-proper town thing to do.

Some game mods thought it would be cute to put in multiple millers. So then for a few months during the past year or so, there would occasionally be like 3ish D1 miller claims, reducing their utility pretty significantly.

Very recently, I think the pendulum has shifted more back to "typical" regarding early Miller claims (this may or may not be directly related to Zoya playing in fewer games).

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Nutsack Rangoon
Mar 30, 2010

EVERYTHING IS NUMBERED HERE. THE MONSTER IS ZERO.

Tired Moritz posted:

Okay nutsack is town

I was just about to vote you. You got any other thoughts?

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